Anet: “Is Kaineng better than Jade Quarry? Before we never knew, but soon they might get a chance to prove it.”
That pretty much sums up the new system. I think we’re done here.
Terrible idea, please do not implement this.
How else should it be done? Is it ok to fight the same world over and over if you do not like this?
Are you going to enjoy being spawn camped 24/7 by SOR? Literally 24/7? Atleast you have a relatively fair fight every week….. Until the entire PPT system gets changed, there is no way to fix this.
Been there done that with the old system, for three weeks in a row. I believe Tier 8 had to go through that since January. So… really, having the chance that DR will have a larger server trouncing us for a week doesn’t sound too bad. …sounds like an improvement, really.
I have a couple of serious questions.
1. Did the person that came up with the math for this graduate from high school.
2. To prove it, please upload a copy of your high school diploma.
Anet: “Is Kaineng better than Jade Quarry? Before we never knew, but soon they might get a chance to prove it.”
That pretty much sums up the new system. I think we’re done here.
Terrible idea, please do not implement this.
How else should it be done? Is it ok to fight the same world over and over if you do not like this?
Are you going to enjoy being spawn camped 24/7 by SOR? Literally 24/7? Atleast you have a relatively fair fight every week….. Until the entire PPT system gets changed, there is no way to fix this.
Therein lies the problem. The tier 1 servers are very good. I can’t see a tier 3 server being competitive against a tier 1.
Trying to judge the quality of a server based on their current rating is much like judging the quality of people’s Reddit posts by the average # of up-votes they get.
To all the naysayers that hate the idea and say there will be horrible matchups. How about show us what you think would be fair matchups. (that are different than they are now). ……..hint: It can’t be done
To whoever made the point about looking for fun, and not worrying so much about winning and losing. I agree 100%. Especially if the matchups change every week.
That is the problem with the current system. It removes all hope when you play the same servers 3 months in a row.
When someone uses the word ‘Meta’, a kitten dies. Don’t do it.
Anet: “Is Kaineng better than Jade Quarry? Before we never knew, but soon they might get a chance to prove it.”
That pretty much sums up the new system. I think we’re done here.
Terrible idea, please do not implement this.
How else should it be done? Is it ok to fight the same world over and over if you do not like this?
Are you going to enjoy being spawn camped 24/7 by SOR? Literally 24/7? Atleast you have a relatively fair fight every week….. Until the entire PPT system gets changed, there is no way to fix this.
Therein lies the problem. The tier 1 servers are very good. I can’t see a tier 3 server being competitive against a tier 1.
What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.
So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.
Projected ratings for next week are:
SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).
What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.
Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.
All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.
Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.
So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.
Projected ratings for next week are:
SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).
What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.
Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.
All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.
Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Sure but how would TC go against JQ? TC has also become stronger since you have moved into T1 (ages ago now).
Therein lies the problem. The tier 1 servers are very good. I can’t see a tier 3 server being competitive against a tier 1.
And here is the real power of the new system!
Do you want to be on a server with hours of queue just to spawn-camp 24/7?
The variation of matches will lead to a spread out of people. Only the stagnation of matches – we had so far – enforced the concentration of people in the top servers.
So far the only way out of a match was a server-transfer. This will now change.
What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.
So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.
Projected ratings for next week are:
SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).
What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.
Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.
All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.
Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Sure but how would TC go against JQ? TC has also become stronger since you have moved into T1 (ages ago now).
Hopefully we’ll get to find out. I’ve personally wanted to play TC for a while.
What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.
So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.
Projected ratings for next week are:
SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).
What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.
Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.
All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.
Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.
I don’t know how much you know about these servers, but chances are SOR would absolutely crush and destroy any server outside of Tier 1 (and maybe 2) right now. As much as I look forward to completely crushing lower tier servers, I think its really going to take some enjoyment out of it for others and I don’t see how this can be a good addition.
You are absolutely right. The system does not change the facts which is the server strengths and coverage, the only thing is changing that servers will face different weaker or stronger servers. The matches are going to be diverse but disproportionate. The guilds will not transfer from stronger to weaker servers because they already are part of a community and they still want to win. The chances are there will be more transfers on the stronger servers as the people will get fed up being steamrolled all the time.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.
So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.
Projected ratings for next week are:
SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).
What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.
Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.
All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.
Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Sure but how would TC go against JQ? TC has also become stronger since you have moved into T1 (ages ago now).
Any T1 server would stomp T2 and below. You can thank JQ for initiating the stack wars and causing such a difference between the 2 tiers.
Therein lies the problem. The tier 1 servers are very good. I can’t see a tier 3 server being competitive against a tier 1.
And here is the real power of the new system!
Do you want to be on a server with hours of queue just to spawn-camp 24/7?
The variation of matches will lead to a spread out of people. Only the stagnation of matches – we had so far – enforced the concentration of people in the top servers.
So far the only way out of a match was a server-transfer. This will now change.
1) There are no hours of qeues
2) Here is the problem.. Lets say you are a guild that is doing the 24/7 spawn camping right now and not having fun because the system matched you up against a much weaker server. You will just wait till next week… thats it and you will be back to having fights… All this system does is toss in a blowout week here and there instead of having a decent matchup each week. If said guild moves to the server that is being spawn camped, next week they may be matched up again against a server that is much weaker then the one they moved too, leading to more spawn camping.
Simply put, with the current scoring mechanics, and coveraged based system you have to either choose between stagnation or uncompetitive matches.
Therein lies the problem. The tier 1 servers are very good. I can’t see a tier 3 server being competitive against a tier 1.
And here is the real power of the new system!
Do you want to be on a server with hours of queue just to spawn-camp 24/7?
The variation of matches will lead to a spread out of people. Only the stagnation of matches – we had so far – enforced the concentration of people in the top servers.
So far the only way out of a match was a server-transfer. This will now change.
Not really, there never are any queues on spawn camp 24/7 matches because there is no need… Players take turns, relax, rest and do other things while waiting for competitive matches. Also the chances are there will be only 1 server that mostly gets steamrolled by both. I have never heard of anyone leaving a winning team just because they winning too easy.
The guilds will not transfer from stronger to weaker servers because they already are part of a community and they still want to win.
It is happening all the time now and has since the game started (HoD). Just because you are in a T1 server doesn’t mean guilds won’t transfer elsewhere.
The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.
I know you’re just using Maguuma as an example, but we have 0 chance in that match up. We would be 0-200 points per tick throughout the week during NA and 0 during oceanic if we even face those servers. The coverage between the servers now in tier 2 and 3 is pretty huge.
It pains me just even thinking about a match up like that ;_;
As the blog post stated, at the end of the day we are really just going to see a bit of nice slight subtle movement so that match-ups are less stale, and eventually ratings are more accurate.
Jon
Problem is the example given is not a subtle movement.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
How strong you ever are in coverage, you cannot defend against 2 servers in primetime.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
Challenge accepted, hopefully we meet sooner than later, I also reserve the right to quote you at the end of the match up.
This is gonna suck for the low population servers. Instead of have fairly close matchups like we’ve had since SoF moved out, we are going to go back to the ROFLstomp that we had a few months ago.
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
This should happen now and doesn’t.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Thanks Anet. Now i see those topics that “they are too strong, why did you changed ww matchup system” and " week of stomping, its not fun" and “we stop playing there is no point, we cant move from waypoint”
The guilds will not transfer from stronger to weaker servers because they already are part of a community and they still want to win.
It is happening all the time now and has since the game started (HoD). Just because you are in a T1 server doesn’t mean guilds won’t transfer elsewhere.
Yeah, the guilds have always moved to the servers based on community and/or had the best chances to win and become the new #1.
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
Ask some players that were there that week about how much fun they had being the underdogs….
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
Challenge accepted, hopefully we meet sooner than later, I also reserve the right to quote you at the end of the match up.
And I want to see the quote if you win by anything less than 300k – I’m not saying TC would win in a 1v1 matchup against SoR but there was a reason for why that matchup turned out that way and it wasn’t simply “Omg SoR are gods :O”
Last time TC fought SOR we beat them by 300k…… a much much much much much weaker version of what SOR is now. Think about that.
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
If all it took was 1 euro guild for us to go from losing around 50k to winning around 50k in T1 what do you think is going to happen when TC vses us.
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
How strong you ever are in coverage, you cannot defend against 2 servers in primetime.
No, whats gonna happen, within a few days, once players are going to realize just how ridiculously outgunned they are. The 2nd and 3rd place server will start fighting each other for 2nd.
Why aren’t the 2nd and 3rd place servers teaming up now? And why all of a suddenly will this occur with new matchups?
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
This should happen now and doesn’t.
I honestly doubt even with the combined effort those two servers will not be able to spawn camp SoR. They might be able to drive SoR to their corner, but never spawn camp.
Attachments:
Sanctum of Rall
New Namek [Kami]
Guardian/Ele/Warrior/Engi/Mes/Necro/Ranger
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
This should happen now and doesn’t.
It will become more likely, when the matches become more diverse AND it happens already, during prime-time an other-times dominating server is always pushed back to it’s third.
And what we really gain now is the suspense of two parallel matches have a race for rank 1. The “goal difference” now really counts for everyone.
Please don’t turn this thread into an “SoR is the best” thread, I’m sure there’s some of those elsewhere.
Obviously SoR is currently poised to beat any other NA server (probably overwhelmingly) 1v1 especially outside T1. Nobody is saying anything else and I have no idea why so many SoR need to emphasize this.
People keep saying that guilds will “spread out” once this starts, and that we’ll see more parity as a result, but that’s really not going to happen without some sort of free or severely discounted transfers. Most of the time, when whole guilds are spending thousands of gold or real-life dollars to transfer, they are moving to a server where they feel relatively certain that they will end up in Tier 1. This happened when transfers were free, as well, but guilds were more open to moving down a tier and trying to work their way back up when the transfers were free.
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
This should happen now and doesn’t.
It will become more likely, when the matches become more diverse
Why?
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
The guilds will not transfer from stronger to weaker servers because they already are part of a community and they still want to win.
It is happening all the time now and has since the game started (HoD). Just because you are in a T1 server doesn’t mean guilds won’t transfer elsewhere.
Yeah, the guilds have always moved to the servers based on community and/or had the best chances to win and become the new #1.
Well we agree with that. Which is why I think we will have people spreading out a bit which i reckon is a positive.
And having been through the rise of SoS being #1 ain’t eveything. Brings its own problems.
Go, read it (or at least look at the pictures). From doing that, it seems like the system could work out decently if they tweaked their parameters a bit. If they improve the system as I noted, it shouldn’t be nearly as doom-and-gloomy as people think (and what I thought initially!). I think the random example they used was just pretty horrible and they weren’t thinking..it isn’t smart to show how good a random system is with one fairly bad random outcome. It’d be like trying to show how good playing craps is, then showing them a losing roll. LOL.
TC Golden Dolyak – [DOLY]
Mesmer – FURY
Rank 55 – Bunker Engi, Top 300
SoR may dominate TC and SoR may dominate FA, but if they overdo, TC and FA can ally and at least in prime-time where all three have a full map they will burn down SoR and spawn-camp them, one left one right.
This should happen now and doesn’t.
It will become more likely, when the matches become more diverse
Why?
Because you will no longer have your main rivalry in your match.
Yeah but that was against a much weaker version of TC than what TC is now, and a match that featured a “dead” 3rd Server since SoR had poached most of their main WvW Guilds during the match (SBI).
Of course that doesn’t matter too much since math hasn’t been invented that can accurately describe the size of SoR Trolls’ egos
Challenge accepted, hopefully we meet sooner than later, I also reserve the right to quote you at the end of the match up.
And I want to see the quote if you win by anything less than 300k – I’m not saying TC would win in a 1v1 matchup against SoR but there was a reason for why that matchup turned out that way and it wasn’t simply “Omg SoR are gods :O”
I haven’t seen anyone from SoR saying “Omg SoR are gods :O” and it has nothing to do with trolling. It is what it is based on server strengths and coverage. I think this change is a good opportunity to refresh some memories and maybe make some new ones as well.
People keep saying that guilds will “spread out” once this starts, and that we’ll see more parity as a result, but that’s really not going to happen without some sort of free or severely discounted transfers. Most of the time, when whole guilds are spending thousands of gold or real-life dollars to transfer, they are moving to a server where they feel relatively certain that they will end up in Tier 1. This happened when transfers were free, as well, but guilds were more open to moving down a tier and trying to work their way back up when the transfers were free.
See, under the new system “tier 1” no longer has any meaning because the “strongest” servers are never guaranteed a matchup. It’s always more beneficial under this server to have a range of fairly competitive servers over one tier of 3 stacked servers, because the alternative is week after week of bad matchups.
Erm. So on the higher population servers were maps are practically insta queued on Reset Nights – guilds and individuals literally have to go in blind? Not knowing what match up or even if you’re entering your own Home BL or an Enemy BL? Really? Intentional? Oversight?
What about getting the roll of each server at the beginning (or middle) of a match and displaying it on the leaderboards ? So we still can predict the next matchups.
Coverage is important for match-win, but it is not for individual fun.
Individual fun happens when you achieve something! And if you are able to liberate your third from enemy occupation, you achieved something and you can have fun with that.
And if you are in match A and your main rivalry is in match B, both of you facing dominating opponents, your success will not be to win your match, but to do better (liberate faster, hold longer) than your rivalry in the other match.
People keep saying that guilds will “spread out” once this starts, and that we’ll see more parity as a result, but that’s really not going to happen without some sort of free or severely discounted transfers. Most of the time, when whole guilds are spending thousands of gold or real-life dollars to transfer, they are moving to a server where they feel relatively certain that they will end up in Tier 1. This happened when transfers were free, as well, but guilds were more open to moving down a tier and trying to work their way back up when the transfers were free.
See, under the new system “tier 1” no longer has any meaning because the “strongest” servers are never guaranteed a matchup. It’s always more beneficial under this server to have a range of fairly competitive servers over one tier of 3 stacked servers, because the alternative is week after week of bad matchups.
You are talking about bad match-ups and refer to the winning servers but not the ones that get steamrolled. I wonder what is worse to win every time or get steamrolled over and over again? It is in the human nature to want to win so chances are people will transfer to the winning servers.
I’ll preface this comment with the statement that I am on Henge, and have been since beta, so I’ve been around for the graceless fall from #1 to Tier 8.
I would MUCH rather fight the same people week in and week out than be forced to play against servers that will vastly outperform us. Over the few months Henge played against Gate of Madness, we made friends from other servers, we had parties in each others’ LA, and then we killed each other on the battlefield mercilessly. The only way that community formed was because we were “stuck” in the same tier, fighting competitive matches.
Without singling out any server specifically, there have been a few that have not been joyrides. Select servers had Henge of Denravi under 50 PPT (this means a tower or two and some supply camps) for days on end. At least one of these servers is still in Tier 6. Now I’m all for fighting against other people, I much enjoy growing my reputation among other players. What I do not enjoy is a server being able to push every single member of my server back into a corner to defend one structure, while they take two different structures with groups of people that equal ours in size. This is not fun, and it makes people leave WvW for the matchup, because fighting a fight that far gone is nothing short of futile.
That was good
