Guild Wars 2

lollie.5816:

@Varonth I think you just need to give it time to smooth out, as above.

Actually, our server was put against the same server who won before by capping everything everynight, again…

I would say, our server already gave up, since we are already 15k point behind elonas reach, after less then 24 hours.

It is discouraging to a point where people just don’t want to play WvW anymore. How should that smooth out?

Really, any mention of region/zone/country needs to be removed. This isn’t about one time zone’s night capping vs another time zone.

1) This is about adjusting rewards/ranking as a function of difficulty of battle in WvW due to temporal population imbalances. Adjusting points based off relative populations is time zone blind. The way the ranking system works at the moment does not fairly compensate and reward for effort and skill in a balanced manner. Calling it a “ranking” system is inherently flawed as is.

2) Each time zone is 100% responsible for distributing themselves more evenly across worlds to optimize queue times and make wvw accessible to more people. To encourage better distribution and allow for more interesting wvw battles overall Dynamic pop caps would encourage guilds to spread out more uniformly. No one likes to wait hours to play and on the flip side, no one likes to suffer heavy repair cost battling in impossible battles due to population differences.

Fundamentally, the problem is that for pve, everyone in one zone wants to lump together (cultural, time zone, language reasons). This runs counter to how WvW is suppose to work. WvW works best with a uniform distribution of different time zones on a server.

More thought really needs to be put into WvW worlds and how it is tied to PVE world rewards.

In it’s current form, WvW ranking is foremost a measure of how well the WvW population is distributed (time zone wise) in a world not skills, tactics, strategy, organization, or battle prowess.

This is my suggestion :
Number and level of guards and lords inversely proportional to the defenders numbers.
That means that if most defenders are not in the map the level and numbers of the guards and lords get increased. In this way the enviroment should prevent small groups to conquer all the territory in few minutes , or at least it will take longer to get all the structures.

Steveo.1574:

Change point capping intervals to 60minutes or 90 mintues rather than 15 minutes
This will mean that both On peak and Off Peak are as equal in terms of point gain +/-12 hour windows. It will mean stronger side during both times will get the point gain. Keep the supply/tower/keep/castle point gains as they are .. i think this will promote a much closer fairer and balanced matchup, at the moment servers that have the largest populations and/or night time players will dominate in off peak because of the next to no contested areas they can get for their point gains.

I think this is probably one of the only ways to change this so onpeak is as fair as offpeak in terms of point generation.

I would suggest taking the point ticker away entirely and changing it so that point get added to the running total at random intervals instead of even intervals. A big dynamic that we’ve been seeing is right before points get added a huge zerg group forms for each team and starts running around trying to cap as many things as possible. As soon as the score ticks they stop. It makes it close to impossible and a useless waste of time and resources to upgrade towers and keeps since there never seems to be enough time to make structural changes before the zerg arrives close to the five minute mark to simply overwhelm place with numbers. And defending a specific structure is worthless since, if a defending team leaves groups at the structures to defend then their numbers are just to low to deal with the zerg.

Iblon.3582:

This is my suggestion :
Number and level of guards and lords inversely proportional to the defenders numbers.
That means that if most defenders are not in the map the level and numbers of the guards and lords get increased. In this way the enviroment should prevent small groups to conquer all the territory in few minutes , or at least it will take longer to get all the structures.

This but with added spawning from the start to go help push back on out of spawn and at least take back the closet supply, tower and keep.

didn’t read the thread but anyway.

the simplest solution against nightcapping – introduce a diminishing returns for server points if your enemy are outmanned. simple as it is. the more enemy you got – the less server points they receive. karma/exp vise should remain the same.

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Having played for a while on a persistent losing server i feel very much frustrated that my “precious” time is wasted.
Every time I went in W3 and capped some camps with a small team, the camp was taken back in a matter of minutes and we hadn’t the numbers to take even a tower.
This. Is. Fine.
It’s war, so it’s ok. The most frustrating part was logging in just after reset and see the whole map belonging to the first server who raided an additional orb.
I tried to do a 5v5 and even a 10v10 there was no match against them.
I have in mind some solutions, but they should be tested.
IMHO there are 3 things that are flawed.
1) Orbs spawn point. Orbs should spawn in Garrison and if taken north to the Altar of Power of your server, you should get some additional score.
2) Score system is just terrible, It really should take in account how much players there were logged in since the last tick.
3)Outmanned buff should really give some useful bonus (smaller than Orb, but useful).

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Being lucky enough to pick a server where Oceanic players were is.. organization now?

The only server where you could even say that would be Henge. The others with a heavy oceanic presence were simply luck of the draw.

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

GG.

Ashane.3520:

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Being lucky enough to pick a server where Oceanic players were is.. organization now?

The only server where you could even say that would be Henge. The others with a heavy oceanic presence were simply luck of the draw.

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

GG.

Everyone has the exact same potential contribution. That is the real problem because say 1 person can contribute one point. But you have 50 people where as the other team has 100 people, therefore you are making 50 points while the other people are making 100 points. It doesn’t go up or down based on time of day, if you decided to drink cherry coke instead of regular coke. Its the lack of people and the incentive to get in and try harder, not how much a given person can contribute.

Now how much of that potential people use is player dependent.

You can turn it the way you want, the game is actually rewarding every player the same, if you don’t want your upgraded keep to be taken when you log off, you have all the tools in front of you to do so. Be it big international guilds or alliance with the other losing side or simply switch to a server with a good night crew if it’s that important to you, all that i see asked is that the game hands it to you with no effort on your part (except for a few well constructed post).

Latency.3907:

Fundamentally, the problem is that for pve, everyone in one zone wants to lump together (cultural, time zone, language reasons). This runs counter to how WvW is suppose to work. WvW works best with a uniform distribution of different time zones on a server.

I agree with the above. People are not going to spread out over time. There are unofficial timezone-based servers because that leads to more fun in PvE. It didn’t happen by accident. And while you may call it planning, I think it was planning around PvE, not WvW.

WvW needs something changed if this is going to be addressed. Simply waiting will fix nothing.

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Partially. But there are certain degrees to which this is not feasible due to composition of groups, etc. Thus, a small balancing function or defensive option ought to be open to defenders. You just make it limiting. Either by the number of keeps/towers you can have defended in such a way or the relative cost, strength, and/or length of the purchased buff.

Sharpclaw.7510:

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Partially. But there are certain degrees to which this is not feasible due to composition of groups, etc. Thus, a small balancing function or defensive option ought to be open to defenders. You just make it limiting. Either by the number of keeps/towers you can have defended in such a way or the relative cost, strength, and/or length of the purchased buff.

With this i can agree, some good thought that can lead to something, finally
This along with the incentive to play while losing, and the ability to get out safely of borderlands even outnumbered and i think we’re up to something good.

Edit: providing those limited “heavy defense” option to every server of course.

Ashane.3520:

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Being lucky enough to pick a server where Oceanic players were is.. organization now?

The only server where you could even say that would be Henge. The others with a heavy oceanic presence were simply luck of the draw.

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

GG.

The hatred you have for Oceanic players is insane, please, take a break from GW2, you seem like you need it.
And fyi, It’s not like Oceanic servers are the top NA servers, why? Because they lose during the day, how do you not understand? If you think it’s unfair Oceanic players cap during the night, when NA players do still play don’t forget, I find it unfair you cap during our night, see how it works?

Cloud.7613:

Ashane.3520:

romsea.8539:

But in the end, all this fuss is people facing more organized team (yes, time coverage is organization) and wanting the game to be fixed in their way instead of them having to match those team to compete, am i right?

Being lucky enough to pick a server where Oceanic players were is.. organization now?

The only server where you could even say that would be Henge. The others with a heavy oceanic presence were simply luck of the draw.

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

GG.

The hatred you have for Oceanic players is insane, please, take a break from GW2, you seem like you need it.
And fyi, It’s not like Oceanic servers are the top NA servers, why? Because they lose during the day, how do you not understand? If you think it’s unfair Oceanic players cap during the night, when NA players do still play don’t forget, I find it unfair you cap during our night, see how it works?

Anyone having a serious discussion about this isn’t saying that oceanic servers in general are the problem, the actual problem is servers with a ton of off hours players (sorry but you aussies are no so important that we are only talking about you) combined with a ton of NA players, have an advantage that nobody else can manage to overcome with any amount of skill. The skill cap being “get more off hours players”.

What Anet is basically saying to me as a NA player that wants to do a ton of WvW (because lets be honest their PvE is sub par at best) that your time doesn’t matter because this server has off hours players and no matter how hard your server tries when your server goes to sleep you are going to lose because you do not have the off hours players to compete in the high levels of game play. And if you don’t like losing transfer to the winning server or a server with off hours players. Which btw kills any sense of server community down the road when people stop doing WvW because fighting a losing battle after 5 months gets old.

This is a terrible way for the game to go and hopefully Anet realizes this before its to late, CCP did when they region locked EvE online because they realized it was killing any real sense of competition between factions or in this case servers, because when the bracket for moving up in WvW is dependent on who has more off hours players and not who is an actual better server at fighting, then this game is going to become stale really fast.

OKAY, i hope everyone realizes that we have 2 ANET game designers posting on this thread. It fully shows they are fully aware of the problem. The game is new and it needs time to tweak here and there, is what they are stating. IMHO, the rankings we have at the moment doesn’t really say much of which server has better strategey/players and what-nots. It’s more of which server has better 24/7 coverage because seriously that is all there is to it. On that note, just play PvE, sPvP or anything other than WvW unless you are doing your daily quest, fast-leveling, farming mats, etc and not giving crap about the tally scores.

@Arago – I’m perfectly fine with them reducing the points nightcappers can get if they have less competition, I actually hope it happens and Oceanic players will still have competition from night time NA players anyway.

I don’t see why everyone complains about the Oceanic’s piling on one server.
At launch, HoD was one of the lower WvW servers, then the Oceanics decided on HoD eventually pushing us to the top.
In comparison the Oceanic region is MUCH smaller than NA so it’s extremely likely that they’ll all band together and pick a server.

A majority of you just make it sound like the one solution is to have Oceanics kicked out of the NA servers or just shut off WvW during nighttime hours.

As for winning and losing there’s no actual reward so why is everyone so mad about it?
The whole ranking system was put in to properly match servers up. You don’t want a full server like SBI going up against an underpopulated server like Kaineng. WvW is all just for fun, but everyone is turning it into some life-threatening competition. There’s really nothing ANet can do about this, it’s all on the community. Seriously guys, just play for fun, not to win.

In all honesty, I’m from HoD and I really hope we lose someday just to make everyone happy.

The fact is that servers are currently region based (there’s NA servers, EU servers, and also lots of countries servers (Ger, Fr, etc …). As the repartition of people speaking the same language over the world isn’t perfect, so is the one in this game. That leads to empty servers at night, making pve nearly impossible (try event to kill a champion alone) and wvw extremely valuable. There’s more time people of that particular time aren’t playing that time they are playing.
Maybe there should be a mix of servers. Like one EU with one US with one Asia get an alliance, against 2 other groups like them. The problem is that WvW would be even more crowded, but at least there wouldn’t be anymore night cap and better repartition.
In all case, WvW still needs improvements on that issue.

@choob : There is reward at WvW that consists in extra 8% of crafts, gatherings, etc, lots of stuff that isn’t big but helps a lot. Badly, when you’re on a server with few WvW, you don’t get that.

choob.4269:

I don’t see why everyone complains about the Oceanic’s piling on one server.
At launch, HoD was one of the lower WvW servers, then the Oceanics decided on HoD eventually pushing us to the top.
In comparison the Oceanic region is MUCH smaller than NA so it’s extremely likely that they’ll all band together and pick a server.

A majority of you just make it sound like the one solution is to have Oceanics kicked out of the NA servers or just shut off WvW during nighttime hours.

As for winning and losing there’s no actual reward so why is everyone so mad about it?
The whole ranking system was put in to properly match servers up. You don’t want a full server like SBI going up against an underpopulated server like Kaineng. WvW is all just for fun, but everyone is turning it into some life-threatening competition. There’s really nothing ANet can do about this, it’s all on the community. Seriously guys, just play for fun, not to win.

In all honesty, I’m from HoD and I really hope we lose someday just to make everyone happy.

The big deal is WvW is competition and people want a CHANCE to win. People realize not everyone can win but when it is a complete blow out after 1 day, there is no chance at winning. Not unless a big off peak guild rolls on their server to save them.

The other major issue is guild claiming. Guilds want to hold on to a keep, upgrade it, and keep it. Currently you cannot do that because as soon as you go to bed it’s gone. What’s the point of sinking gold after gold into a garrison only to find everything on every map has been taken overnight?

The solution is no longer separating regions. The game is live and the damage is done. This is something that ArenaNet should have considered before the release of the game. They say they always planned for it to be 24/7 so how did they not figure out that having certain regions rolling on other regions servers would give a huge advantage? Even if they did realize it would happen they still implemented a scoring system that favors doing that.

The only thing that will mitigate this issue now is a complete scoring overhaul. A new system that grants far more points for taking hard to take objectives than taking completely undefended ones.

The game is new, but it already has two things, that make competition not really interesting:
1. Some people win this competition too easily.
2. Other people can’t win no matter how hard they try.
These two things together ruin the game for the first amount of players as much as for the second, because predictable results kill the excitement of our battles. Competition must be encouraged, and 10 ppl must be encouraged to fight 50.
Anyways, I should mention that NA prime time is precios for EU servers At least it is precious for the first 6 worlds in EU ladder.

I see nightcapping positively.
My server is winning greatly before I go to bed, yet the following day we’re assaulted and need to capture everything back.
It’s not a bad thing.

If we were to still be as powerful all day and night it would be boring we could only defend.

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

There will be some people complaining, but yeah, this is pretty much right.

Nightcapping is not fun for either side. It’s not fun to take empty keeps. It’s not fun to be two people defending a keep. That’s the main part of the issue. The night capping huts the quality of enjoyment in playing WvWvW, but night capping is greatly rewarded by the points system. So the least enjoyable tactic is the most rewarding. That is the problem. Nobody on ANet has publicly shown any awareness of understanding that issue.

Any update on allowing guilds to xfer with their guild perks intact then since its obvious you want us all to merge into mega servers?

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

I could give a rats kitten about HoD winning or losing the problem i see with night caping (and im not saying its unfair to night cap) is when i go on to WvWvW with my server on a losing end is that nobody wants to go on and i can rapidly switch between all borderlands with no Queing going on

which ends with me going to any borderland with never enough people to have enough fun in a WvWvW situation other then defending from a giant zerg or a always failed attack on a tower or keep due to the night teams upgrading the kitten out of a keep or tower and not having enough people to set up a successful attack (not to mention the idiots who dont know the meaning of the word strategy)

so when people see theyre on a failing server they switch to a server that is winning (big failure on guilds being able to be on any server and the free transfers)

Iblon.3582:

This is my suggestion :
Number and level of guards and lords inversely proportional to the defenders numbers.
That means that if most defenders are not in the map the level and numbers of the guards and lords get increased. In this way the enviroment should prevent small groups to conquer all the territory in few minutes , or at least it will take longer to get all the structures.

exactly this is what i’ve been suggesting
i think this is the only viable solution with lesser colateral damage

romsea.8539:

But Markan, Anet stated repeatedly that wvw is meant to be 24/7, and we all knew that server could be accessed worldwide from the start, so your “number 2” solution is already in place since launch…

No it’s not and will not be until

1. Region Tags of servers will be removed.
2. All servers share the same ranking list.

I’ve read this argument so many times however it’s false. When a new NA player gets in to the game 99.95 % he picks an NA server (except Canadians I suppose). When an EU player gets in the game 99.95% he picks an EU server (except a few WvW guilds playing in HoD). Almost all Oceanics plays at NA servers. It’s how Servers/Regions advertised before the start of the game officially.

When you ask people to pick Region before Server, and tell them both regions have different rankings, expecting them to spread out evenly to form up real 7/24 servers is absurd.

Please don’t come up with this claim anymore. Game mechanics don’t prevent people to that, but strongly discouraging players to create 7/24 servers.

I really hope ANet designers will stop claiming WvW is designed to be 7/24 as long as they keep regions. They are embarrassing them selves at best.

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

What an EGO..

There are EU players here in this thread. There are several other players from NA which never faced HoD or will never face it. GW-2 is not HoD.

Ashane.3520:

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

THIS.

I paid for the game the same amount with to Canadians. But my contribution counted really low compared to theirs on WvW.

Arago.3706:

Anyone having a serious discussion about this isn’t saying that oceanic servers in general are the problem, the actual problem is servers with a ton of off hours players (sorry but you aussies are no so important that we are only talking about you) combined with a ton of NA players, have an advantage that nobody else can manage to overcome with any amount of skill. The skill cap being “get more off hours players”.

You don’t even need tons of off-time players. If a server can organize 50-60 guys at off time, they win the game. Currently this is the strongest (or perhaps only valid) tactic/organization on WvW. It’s soooo strong that, it’s not leaving room to any other tactics/organization. WvW is fun, but it’s not competitive and it doesn’t provide a strategic variety as one strategy beats it all.

It’s like an RTS game with one tactic winning everything else. Such games can not survive long.

Kazim.2043:

Ashane.3520:

No ones asking the game to be fixed in anyone’s way. What’s being asked for is simply to make every players contribution count as much as every other player which currently isnt the case.

THIS.

I paid for the game the same amount with to Canadians. But my contribution counted really low compared to theirs on WvW.

The problem isn’t your contribution, it’s how good you use your potential and the other population. You guys act like how somehow your contribute less because you don’t play at an overnight time. That’s complete bullkitten. It’s like asking for your work to be worth man that the other people you are currently at that time playing against because you don’t field the numbers later. There should be help to take stuff in those hours where you are outmanned not when you are playing because you might get hit for points later.

Nucleotides.6928:

You guys act like how somehow your contribute less because you don’t play at an overnight time. That’s complete bullkitten.

No it’s not. When I plant 40 voice communicated men on one map at 9PM, with a good organization we can capture and keep half of the map for 2-3 hours.

If I plant 40 men on the same map at 5AM we can capture whole map in less than 1 hour (thx to golems and mesmer portals). And we can move to next map and do it there also. And then the next map. And all those points will be ours for at least 3-4 hours.

Same amount of people, huge difference in contribution.

Kazim.2043:

Nucleotides.6928:

You guys act like how somehow your contribute less because you don’t play at an overnight time. That’s complete bullkitten.

No it’s not. When I plant 40 voice communicated men on one map at 9PM, with a good organization we can capture and keep half of the map for 2-3 hours.

If I plant 40 men on the same map at 5AM we can capture whole map in less than 1 hour (thx to golems and mesmer portals). And we can move to next map and do it there also. And then the next map. And all those points will be ours for at least 3-4 hours.

Same amount of people, huge difference in contribution.

so using your example which sounds about right from my experience in WvWvW.

It would be like for example (not actually happening).

Lets say its prime time playing time in NA and at that time in EU its sleeping time (less players on EU) and lets say it was a NA server vs 2 EU servers (not possible so dont slam my example open your mind a little) since its prime time in NA and sleeping time in EU the NA server will have a effortless domination of all borderlands (not very fun but fruitful with the benefits earned from that time dominating the entire map).

Now its sleeping time in NA and prime time in EU and the same exact thing will happen but in the benefits go to the EU server. this is what is wrong with night capping its not the night cappers fault they are just playing when they can thats not my issuse.

My issue is the benefits of the easy domination of the map there needs to be an adjustment of the benefits recieved and there needs to be a adjustment of how easy it is to dominate an empty map.

The outmanned benefit from being outmanned is not enough, and the benefits of taking/defending a keep is not scaled to how easy/hard it was to do the accomplishment.

Once again this was just an example so please be open minded to what i was saying.

Estes.3107:

so using your example which sounds about right from my experience in WvWvW.

It would be like for example (not actually happening).

Lets say its prime time playing time in NA and at that time in EU its sleeping time (less players on EU) and lets say it was a NA server vs 2 EU servers (not possible so dont slam my example open your mind a little) since its prime time in NA and sleeping time in EU the NA server will have a effortless domination of all borderlands (not very fun but fruitful with the benefits earned from that time dominating the entire map).

Now its sleeping time in NA and prime time in EU and the same exact thing will happen but in the benefits go to the EU server. this is what is wrong with night capping its not the night cappers fault they are just playing when they can thats not my issuse.

My issue is the benefits of the easy domination of the map there needs to be an adjustment of the benefits recieved and there needs to be a adjustment of how easy it is to dominate an empty map.

The outmanned benefit from being outmanned is not enough, and the benefits of taking/defending a keep is not scaled to how easy/hard it was to do the accomplishment.

Once again this was just an example so please be open minded to what i was saying.

There are actually two problems (related to each other).

1. Easy map domination
2. Same benefits on a map dominated easily.

I think we’re on the same line here.

EDIT: I understand Oceanics are pretty sensitive on that and they are right. But it’s not just a Time-zone issue. Any guild/alliance an abuse this easy benefits by alarm-clocking. The problem is WvW game design is not ready for 7/24 combat.

For example in EVE there are several alliances which are stronger on different time zones, like EU ones NA, Oceanics even Asians. However game mechanics don’t allow any one of them to ninja sovereignty abusing time-zones.

Heh, I’m an Oceanic player and personally know a lot of active Oceanic and Asian communities on multiple NA servers, a lot of them in far greater numbers than HoD. Claiming that most of Oceanic players are on HoD is such an exaggeration.

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

Not everyone here is playing Henge. Some of us can’t get that high up because of population issues. I’m guessing you are from Henge?

Xsorus.2507:

Why do I think the main solution to this is for Henge of Denravi to lose? Because deep down, that seems to be what the main complaint is, that Henge of Denravi isn’t losing and SBI/JQ/ET aren’t winning.

I have a feeling of henge loses, that these complaints will magically drop off.

Because the number 1 rule of MMO’s is

“1. It’s never my fault as a player, I’m not a terrible player, if I lose, there is something in the game working against me”

I don’t give two kitten about HoD. Not my server.

You know what. I think half of the issue of this debate is the point of view of people.

If we look at “peak hours” where everything is even and everyone has the same contribution everything is fine.

Now we move to “off hours” where one side has less people than the others. EACH INDIVIDUAL has the same potential of contribution as anyone else. The issue here is the lack of people to counter the opposing people. In reverse if you have more people EACH INDIVIDUAL has the same potential of contribution as anyone else. The issue here is the lack of people to counter them.

Either way you look at it the individual can contribute just as much as anyone else. The issue is the multiplier of that contribution that we find in the forum of available population on the current map. You do not count anymore or any less for being there, your server is reduced in potential by having less people there.

We could talk about skill next but as a compounding variable that will change constantly we will assume approximately equal amounts for all servers in a given tier. At which case EACH INDIVIDUAL gives the same potential. and again the deciding factor here is the number of people who are present to add their potential to the system.

thanks for the response Jon. you guys really dont need to feel apologetic in any way. you gave us open world pvp. it’s what people wanted.

players need not to be babies. how do you think EVE players feel after investing hours of their time into building bases and taking territory, just to get invaded over night and get it all blown up? grow some, and stay up all night defending or capping smaller objectives if you care. WvW is kinda hardcore in that sense. if it’s too much for you, spvp is that away ->

didnt i read somewhere that if you log in from another region then you bought the game it would be changed and you would be sent to that regions servers.

I have NO problem with night capping, but why are Canadians allowed on European servers?

This Canadian / French thing is killing the game for me (we are matched against 2 FR servers this week). I’m here to WvW but no matter how much we build or try in the day when the Canadians come on at night we are outnumbered 10-1 easily… what do we get to compensate 20% magic find, 33% exp and karma… Really.

I’m pretty much done with this game, the balance isn’t here in WvW and it’s not worth sinking my time into. Don’t even get me started on the PvE that made me lose the will
to play the game a long time ago.

The game should just be region locked and this would fix the issue, with the freedom of movement its also killing the community as people are just skipping to the flavor of the week server. Overall its a pretty sad state to see this “flagship” game in, luckily alot of other good stuff has come out recently.

WvW as advertised: Epic, open-world PvP where teamwork, skill, and strategy matter

WvW in practice: Server with the best night crew wins the match against your NPCs while you sleep

nerva.7940:

thanks for the response Jon. you guys really dont need to feel apologetic in any way. you gave us open world pvp. it’s what people wanted.

players need not to be babies. how do you think EVE players feel after investing hours of their time into building bases and taking territory, just to get invaded over night and get it all blown up? grow some, and stay up all night defending or capping smaller objectives if you care. WvW is kinda hardcore in that sense. if it’s too much for you, spvp is that away ->

In EVE you have one server.
I repeat it again, in EVE you have one server.

You need someone to defend your bases when you are sleeping? Hire a corporation to do that for you. Best thing a corporation with a different timeslot.
Of course you can try to invite other guilds to your server.
But why would they join if:

1. They will join the losing side with less boni like gatherer and stuff
2. They will basically lose all of their guild upgrades

Thing about it, like in EVE if two corporation allies, one corp leader loses all of his corp skills. There would be not one single alliance in New Eden.

Comparing WvW with EVE is like comparing apples and oranges. Both are fruits, and thats all they have in common.

@lollie and Cloud, since quoting always seems to be broken.

I am not saying you’re second class citizens. I’m saying that the mindset you have from other MMO’s is counterproductive here.

On most other MMO’s, oceanic people all being on one server means you have people to play with, both PVE and PVP, as it’s faction vs faction, not server vs server.

But this server vs server setup makes that all fall apart. You don’t have people to fight against if the majority of you are concentrated on one server.

Is that not excruciatingly boring to just roll the map uncontested?

Wouldn’t it be better if there wasn’t just a handfull of oceanic guilds on every server, just enough to put 100 oceanic players on each map on every server every night. Then your server would have 24 hour a day presence. Not only would you have people to fight against, but your server wouldn’t lose everything while YOU were asleep because you tried to chase NA players OFF your server (which DOES happen.. SWTOR I got called a vulgar term for female reproductive organs and told to move off the server my guild got assigned to because Oceanic players were “claiming” my server for themselves)

This means all the severs would have 24/7 presence.

Wouldn’t this be better than having 1-2 servers have the entire oceanic presence and lacking in NA presence meaning you roll the map uncontested when you play and lose the map uncontested while you sleep?

nerva.7940:

how do you think EVE players feel after investing hours of their time into building bases and taking territory, just to get invaded over night and get it all blown up? grow some, and stay up all night defending or capping smaller objectives if you care. WvW is kinda hardcore in that sense. if it’s too much for you, spvp is that away ->

You can’t ninja Sovereignty on EVE online. To contest Sovereignty you have to put Sovereignty Blockade units and online them. Which takes 3 hours each. And then bring down IHubs and stations which takes kitten loads of fire power, (not just 30 men like this). And after that you have online Territory Claim Unit which takes 8 hours more.

At any stage of this long process defenders can show up to stop you. Eventually if defenders have more fire-power than attackers they’ll get several chances to stop attackers. EVE sovereignty system is designed properly taking 7/24 into account.

EDIT: About Player Owned Stations (POS), they have ridiculous defenses. If you want to bring down a POS owned by a corporation you have to bring kitten amount of firepower.

Personally I could care less about the “night capping”. At the end of the day.. the point system itself is extremely detrimental to this game in general and the longer it stays in it’s current form, the worse it is for the game. The point system for the most part in no way reflects how powerful different servers are minus a few that actually have similiar populations and night crews.

The first night of resets can be a lot of fun for the 3 different servers. There’s no “reinforced walls”, and generally everyone comes out the first night or two. That is until they log in and see their server down 10k points over-night due to no night presence.. then they see every tower/keep that one side owns all reinforced….people don’t wanna spend 2 hours banging on one tower or keep just to finally take it knowing with 100% certainty that no matter what they do, in a few hours when they go to bed it’ll be taken over with utter ease my the night crew.

The reality is.. this is a free game to play. It’s not costing us a cent to play outside of our own time and if you don’t enjoy playing, just quit and go onto something else until Anet figures out what to do with the wvwvw aspect of the game to make it more enjoyable. This game imo is still a beta version given the enormous amount of bugs still present and the terrible implementation of so many features.. most notably the dungeon and wvwvw. I enjoy the pvp immensely when out with my guild, but I really don’t enjoy the seige aspects of the game. There really is almost no sense of accomplishment what so ever in the wvwvw for doing anything.