Guild Wars 2

So much fun I can’t even begin to describe. Arborstone, Augury & Desolation.

http://imageshack.us/a/img43/8733/ftwy.jpg

Here’s the fix all the QQer’s are after:

In WvWvW, turn off all buffs from orbs, the out-manned buff, all that gathering +3% garbage, get rid of the time limit, and the scores, and just make it open world pvp with no meaning.

There!

Are you kittens happy now?

And another developer post that proves Anet simply DOES NOT UNDERSTAND the issues with night-capping.

I can’t fathom that even after close to 800 posts on this topic they are still oblivious to the actual concerns.

I keep repeating myself but it seems like ANet just doesn’t get it.

Nobody cares if night-capping is fun or not. It may be, it may not be. Hell I play a lot at night too and have plenty of fun sometimes.

But all that doesn’t excuse the scoring advantage you get for doing so.

I have yet to hear a single argument against either:

1. Scaling the WvW score according to the current number of active players.

2. Or rewarding player kills with a +1 to the score so actual PvP is rewarded, rather that purely Players vs. Doors.
___________________________________________

None of those suggestion have ever been counter-argued and even as a night-active player I wouldn’t be opposed to them.

And yet ANet just still spouts out the same BS again and again.

Night capping is ruining WvWvW and ArenaNet’s responses have just been insulting. If you can’t do anything to fix it, just say so and cut out the BS!

Tyburn Roth.7329:

Night capping is ruining WvWvW and ArenaNet’s responses have just been insulting. If you can’t do anything to fix it, just say so and cut out the BS!

Nightcapping does not ruin WvW the scoring system in place, is the element that is causing the problem. you can not discount people playing whenever they want to play. if they want to alarm clock and get up at night they should.

what shouldn’t happen, is that scoring points at lower population hours with little opposition, completely make any other points scored during high population hours redundant.

I will also state that unfrotunately player population based score adjustments should never ever happen either, you should not get a benefit from having less players you should lose still but not at a rate that makes all other WvW pointless.

to make everyone happy would be enough to remove the temporal score, and put a score to objective conquered / defended only.

honestly give a f..k, I got in WvW if I see that there is not s..t to do so because others have placed four ballista at res point and have all over the map, close GW2, and I open another game, it’s not you the only mmorpg

the nice thing is that when sucks WvW , there are no queues, at least you know immediately that you can make something else

Do not allow Free transfers to the top 50 percent of the servers.
Allow Free Transfers to the bottom 50 percent of servers.
Make one ladder NA and EU combined.
Give realm points like DAOC did, gives someone something to work for besides just the weekly match, and small bonuses you can purchase for your character like Daoc did.
Give Exp/Karma/Gold bonus in WvWvW to the ranked 3 server in each weeks match.
Allow no transfers between servers that are matched up.
Increase Guard strength at Keeps.

To make everyone happy.

- Hide the score and remove the unlockable PvE stuff through accumulation of map ownage. Keep it just to decide brackets for next game but keep it hidden.
- Switch the outmanned and the orb buffs and make the later apply in the PvE maps only (ie, cap orbs in WvWvW to get bonuses in PvE maps).
- Remove stuff degradation through PvP deaths or allow players to pay for reparations with tokens in the 3W maps. Like 1 token for 100% repair.

Could probably go further.
- The orb bonuses are too weak to matter when outmanned happens so might need to boost them.
- A 0 supply situation when a team night caps 100% of the map is very hard to overcome since you cannot make siege engines at all, so a kind of bonus to supplies in those situations could be fine. For example the more you control the map, the more it costs to build anything and when you control practically nothing, make all player carried supplies count for 10.

- I would totally remove the orbs at least, or at least the bonuses at stats..
no one in a fair battle, would it be outmanned or not by the enemy, should have stats bonuses for being stronger than in fact he is.
Let’s give to the orb some different function

-Remove the “ticks” every 15 mins, but instead assign points only on succesfull defense or attack. Let’s also assign points in a fair way, balancing the thing on the current wvw population. This requires a lot of testing and balancing before it can properly work.
An overpopulated server will always have a better chance to win against an underpopulated one, but tactics will count more than only population as it is now.

- Assign also points for assaulting or defending caravans as well. I would make dolyaks “unkillable” till there are enemies around there defending it. Npc veteran guards count also as enemy of coruse. In this way it would be a little harder for a single person to suicide on the dolyak just for getting the kill on it, even when there are defenders trying to protect it. I always do it with my thief but I feel like it is too easy at the moment.

Just few changes, that won’t require much time to do, I think could improve a lot the wvw experience

Why can’t we have dynamic queuing?

I am sure someone must have suggested it already, however having dynamic queuing mechanism seems reasonable. The way I picture it, if for example:

Server A has 10 people in a borderland, the dynamic queuing mechanism will only allow a total of 20 ( or configurable number ) people in Server B and Server C for that borderland. Now if an additional player joins Server A the Server B/ C cap is increased to 21. This will allow a more fair battle.

One disadvantage of this mechanism would be much longer queue times in the beginning for few players but I hope they will move servers to better match an opponent (server) with comparable size.

Siphaawal.3475:

Why can’t we have dynamic queuing?

I am sure someone must have suggested it already, however having dynamic queuing mechanism seems reasonable. The way I picture it, if for example:

Server A has 10 people in a borderland, the dynamic queuing mechanism will only allow a total of 20 ( or configurable number ) people in Server B and Server C for that borderland. Now if an additional player joins Server A the Server B/ C cap is increased to 21. This will allow a more fair battle.

One disadvantage of this mechanism would be much longer queue times in the beginning for few players but I hope they will move servers to better match an opponent (server) with comparable size.

this breeds defending by not defending.

also if you don’t show up to fight you should lose. this kind of queing locks people out of content due to other peoples choices you simply can’t do this.

Siphaawal.3475:

Why can’t we have dynamic queuing?

I am sure someone must have suggested it already, however having dynamic queuing mechanism seems reasonable. The way I picture it, if for example:

Server A has 10 people in a borderland, the dynamic queuing mechanism will only allow a total of 20 ( or configurable number ) people in Server B and Server C for that borderland. Now if an additional player joins Server A the Server B/ C cap is increased to 21. This will allow a more fair battle.

One disadvantage of this mechanism would be much longer queue times in the beginning for few players but I hope they will move servers to better match an opponent (server) with comparable size.

this won’t happen cos as A-Net already stated in their first topic, they don’t want prevent anyone from different time zones from playing the game when they want and they wish. And I agree with this.
A dynamic score system that would take in count of the current wvw population could work instead. It would be fair for all players from all time zones, cos this is not only a nightcapping problem, but a general problem that all servers could face during the night or the day it doesn’t matter

Alright well, I really have nothing new to offer in this thread – and it seems the most vocal opponents of ANet taking action have begun to see the light.

So, I will exit the thread with just a brief summary of my position.

Problem: Population mismatches, server pools, transfers, snowball mechanics all combine to cause casual player interest in W3 to fade, thus exacerbating the lop-sided matches.

Solution: I prefer a server-based solution, such as removing EU and NA designations and allowing every server to become international without borders.
Failing that, I believe there needs to be some sort of “comeback” mechanic that gives players hope, which will inspire them to continue fighting even against an “evil empire”.
Failing even that!… there needs to be some changes made to prevent the inevitable snowball from becoming an avalanche.

Good luck Arena Net & company. Excellent game here, just a few minor changes (and bug/hack fixes!) and I think you’ve really given the gaming community a PvP (structured and massive) crown jewel.

if ever conclusive proof was needed that WvW is all about who can pillage during the night when the competition sleeps its in our battle , gandara V abbadons mouth (german) and underworld.

gandara had ammased a 60k lead since the start and all of a sudden it seems the germans have a bank holiday today so could stay up all night and this morning control 500 points owrth of the maps. so far at 2pm UK time all we can do is get back our are of EBG for 85 points and same with underworld.

so either suddenly the germans became uber or its conclusive proof that skill and tactics mean jack and its all about who doesnt need to go to bed on your server.

so anyone else wake up to find the germans have suddenlt became “uber” this morning? if so its just more weight to the evidence that this system downgrades skill and tactics to meaningless except at a small portion of the day while night crews rule the world…….

lame

Ps i,m pasting this in here cos the moderators obviously closed down another thread talking about this isue .

ginzo.8792:

if ever conclusive proof was needed that WvW is all about who can pillage during the night when the competition sleeps its in our battle , gandara V abbadons mouth (german) and underworld.

gandara had ammased a 60k lead since the start and all of a sudden it seems the germans have a bank holiday today so could stay up all night and this morning control 500 points owrth of the maps. so far at 2pm UK time all we can do is get back our are of EBG for 85 points and same with underworld.

so either suddenly the germans became uber or its conclusive proof that skill and tactics mean jack and its all about who doesnt need to go to bed on your server.

so anyone else wake up to find the germans have suddenlt became “uber” this morning? if so its just more weight to the evidence that this system downgrades skill and tactics to meaningless except at a small portion of the day while night crews rule the world…….

lame

Ps i,m pasting this in here cos the moderators obviously closed down another thread talking about this isue .

If the scoring system was altered to something that was not so biased to these initial surges of points during low pop hours you would still see a loss for the day. But the difference in points shouldn’t be insummountable in comparison to what you could achieve during the rest of the week. if you get me.

I apologize in advance for english (google translator)

Or maybe something like these.

Create a buff that:
First Will be active ONLY between midnight and noon (time to be determined)
Second Will be influenced at all lords, and only them (castle, keep, tower)
3rd Will strengthen defense and offensive, depending on the population (as in the buff for players)
4th dependence buff will have statistics:
a) 90% – 100% population of the server -> no buff
b) 65% – 90% population of the server -> x2 defensive and offensive
c) 40% – 65% population of the server -> something like a 3 minute buff after taking over the object
d) 5% – 40% population of the server -> something like a 3 minute buff after taking over the object + strongly enhanced attack
e) 0% – 5% population of the server -> total immunity to attacks

This buff will not have any significance on servers with full population of 24/7
Server with a reduced population at night will have a chance to defend it self from “zerg server” pressure.
There will be no situation where 2 groups at 4a.m take all zones, because there is nobody from the opposite servers.

what do you think?

I’m with you Kyus. Whiteside is currently matched against two German servers and we were last by a large margin by Saturday evening. By Sunday we’d fought up to second place and on Monday were within striking distance of first place.

Then came two nights of frantic, unopposed night-capping by Miller’s Sound and now we’re 60,000+ points behind with two days left to go. The scoring has to change and it has to change soon or too many people are just going to give up on WvW altogether.

Me, I love being outnumbered, outgunned and out on a limb (WW2OL is a brutal teacher) but most people don’t and whether Anet likes it or not, those guys are the backbone of WvW on any server.

It isn’t about being outnumbered. The servers are unbalanced and Anet expects people to just get up and fix it themselves. Servers need to have balanced populations. They need to give people an incentive to move their guilds. I am in a small guild if we all decided to up and move we would lose all of our guild upgrades and influence. We’re not some huge guild. It took a lot of time and effort to get what we have so far.

I too am extremely frustrated by the fact that nightcapping is such an overwhelming factor in regard to the final score.
It is demoralising when you’ve fought for 6-7-8-9 (however many) hours and are in a strong position, to log on the next day and find yourself in a hopeless last place.
However, I do understand that people from different areas play at different times and I do understand that they want (and are entitled to) the same fun, experience etc. as all others not from their timezone.
The main problem here is not Anet’s lack of tweaking.
The main problem is that people want instant gratification, solutions etc.
If it were up to NA players, Amet would lock WvW during late night, too bad for Oceanic, Asian players etc.
We, the player base, have to come up with a solution and the most obvious one is that we ourselves have to make arrangements to have our guilds, alliances etc. move to different servers(this of course includes Oceanic guilds etc).
The problem with this is that it probably will never happen.
It’s true that it is about the fun and not just the score, but it is disheartening to see your efforts nullified by nightcapping.
I still very much love the game and will deinitely keep fighting the good fight.
If only people had a little more patience.
And yes, do away with free server transfers and do away with the penalty to guilds who want to transfer.

Its always funy reading these threads and theyre 99% negative then people thorw out suggestions and then people say ‘t wont work’. Well what is in place now isnt working either, so what is the difference?

People just want what THEY want. Doesnt matter what might actually help, if it isnt something they think shouldbe done it ‘wont help’.

Like I say these threads crack me up.

Right now WvW is so broken it is going to take A LOT to get it back to playable let alone ‘fix it’.

They should basically start from scratch, which would basically mean everyone would have to relearn the strategies and mini game of it all over again. Which isnt that horrible since the game has only been out 6 weeks or so. Going to be a lot harder to make changes and expect people to accept them if they kitten around for 6 months with no improvements and THEN make major changes.

But I suspect the do nothing but appease the casual people who dont really pvP and do things that make no sense, then after everyone leaves the game for something different theyll make an effort. Since it is free to play some people might come back but not enough to make it worthwhile like it is now. Games that lose players never get them all back at the same time like they do at launch. I am sure every ‘failed’ game has had a lot of people go back to them, but they go in cycles and stream in so they arent there at the same time thus they say ‘game is empty’ and move on.

Thats why games are always at their best at launch because everyone is in the same areas and the ‘epicness’ shines through. Once people start to leave and the population thins the game loses alot.

for a mini example f this just look at the weekend, scores for the most part arent completely out of hand people are logging in and some servers might still have queues, but as the weekend ends and people go back to work and numbers fall off yu see what happens, the very reason for this thread.

It WILL NEVER FIX ITSELF, it is impossible, there will never be enough people to fill those empty servers during off peak hours, there just wont. If anything there are a lot less people now so the fix people think will hapkitten further away now than it was weeks ago when these issues were first raised.

One wide sweeping thing they MIGHT do is designate 9 servers at “PvP” servers, and have the people who want to PvP go there. NOT open PvP but funnel the pro PvP players there. Then they only have to fill 3 battle groups. Right now you have a lot of full worlds overall but the PvP base is minimal and spread all over.

I dont know what they are going to do, there are alot of things they can try, any of them basically better than what it is now. If it holds the line come Christmas the WvW will be even more pathetic than it is now. As it is there arent more than 5 servers anyway doing anything more than a token effort in there.

I totally agree with Matt Witter. Once you start tweaking the things because players in a certain area of the world are whiny about losing while they’re asleep, the integrity of the game is lost.

Mike Ferguson already said that the numbers should even out over time and the servers with 24/7 coverage may be paired with the servers with 24/7 coverage, and things should balance out naturally.

If people are getting “demoralized” because of a clearly expressed undeveloped ranking system, then it doesn’t sound like competition is for you. If you don’t want to lose, figure out how to win.

Legit level 80s will always have a hilarious advantage over leveled up 80s. I saw someone on making a massive multiguild organization effort for Wv3 and it brought a happy tear to my eye. Most others were just complaining.

There is no competition after midnight. I had that “competition” last night between 3 and 4. We took back 2 towers, 2 supply camps and desolation garrison with 10 ppl. And got totally stomped by a group of at least 30 ppl from arborstone, while another group of around 10 of them took the supply camps back. (the really funny part is, that it doesn’t require a bit of skill – i remember 3 catapults standing right beyond the wall, because they knew we couldn’t defend anyway – ever tried such stupid things over the day?)
That’s not competition. There should never be four times more enemies then defenders in the borderlands.
Even if you take back much of the map at prime time and upgrad, you will lose everything at night again and fall behind in points.
So, Arenanet said “How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another.” – so why is the value of our fighting over the day absolutely worthless? All the upgrades, organisation and points are gone within 4 hours without being able to defend anything.

Ignicity.7938:

Here’s the fix all the QQer’s are after:

In WvWvW, turn off all buffs from orbs, the out-manned buff, all that gathering +3% garbage, get rid of the time limit, and the scores, and just make it open world pvp with no meaning.

There!

Are you kittens happy now?

Maybe you wont be happy the day you will only face a map full of NPCs and nobody with fighting for. Then maybe you will realize how wrong is the system now.

Right now, WvW scoring is about “bots” and should be about skilled players.

And if WvW fails, this MMORPG is over. If i wanna play PvE, there are better MMOs than this one, much better i must say.

Look though the issue with all of the punish people who play at night or make them not worth kitten is unfair for them. Honestly i don’t see a problem Im on TC and we are playing SoS one of if not the biggest night cap server in the NA ladder as night cap hours are coming to a end we have +290 points and are winning
TC 205k-SoS 143k- GoM 78k.
So im just not seeing the problem the night capping only really helped them the first night then after that we had taken such a big lead it was a joke. so im just not seeing any issue’s what so ever

The issue is that only one or two servers per ladder have both Night and Day cappers. These are the servers with huge advantages. And obviously enough are the ones that dominate every matchup. Some the players aren’t as good so they’re lower in the ranks but just dominate that section of the rankings.

Only idiots were saying we should punish the night cappers. Most if not all of the suggestions involve balancing the scoring function to the current population or similar systems that don’t make anybody playing useless, but also don’t give a huge unfair advantage to the off hour players who just roll through the map with nobody defending against them.

If you really can’t comprehend how wanting things to be fair for the sake of having fun, then you are either on a server with a night crew, don’t WvW that often, or just enjoy being spawn camped because overnight the enemy built 3939439493 siege weapons outside your spawn on all sides and just destroy you as you come out.

But with time you will be playing servers that are equal in many ways there has not been nearly enough time for server’s to find there rankings. kitten maybe people will move to a server that they are needed at to even things out. but adjusting the scoring due to how many people are playing will PUNISH a server like Sea of Sorrows because they do not have a Day time force so they will never be able to gain enough points to even have a chance to win and that is not there fualt that just dont seem right.

Kyus.3812:

this breeds defending by not defending.

also if you don’t show up to fight you should lose. this kind of queing locks people out of content due to other peoples choices you simply can’t do this.

People are already getting locked out of content due to other people’s choices. What do you think the weekend queue times look like on HoD, for instance?

Dynamic queues could be fairly implemented so that they still give an advantage for the server with Highest WvW pop. For instance

1) Establish a minimum number of people always allowed to participate on any map. Say 15 on borderlands, 25 on EB.
2) Cap population per map at the lowest of:
….a)200% of the server with the lowest pop
….b)130% of the server with the second lowest pop.
3) Possibly strengthen or loosen the caps based upon the amount of territory owned by each side. So a side that had a low map pop and no territory at all would inflict a stricter population cap.
4) Don’t boot people out of the map because they exceed the map population, only effect the ability of new people to join the map. Prevents one side from just logging off against strong opposition to attempt to game the system and protect their territory.

(play with the numbers as needed)

With this, the server with the highest population still gets to have the numerical advantage, it should just limit extremely imbalanced 100v20v20 scenarios. The minimum pop cap also ensures that a server can’t just log off to protect its holdings, you can still take over objectives with the base population cap, you just can’t do it as fast, and a little opposition from other servers will have a chance to hold their own.

And by not changing how points are accumulated, it means that everyone’s contribution is the same based on when they play during the day. The minimum population cap also ensures that everybody has an opportunity to play at any time of day. Sure, if there are a bunch more people on one server than another, they might have to wait in a queue, but how is that different than normal prime time play? And if they don’t like the queue, they have the exact same option available to the prime time players to fix it: switch servers. Hopefully they’ll take that opportunity to further spread out the off peak server populations which means everybody gets to play more often, just like prime time.

I don’t see the problem

However, they absolutely need to allow guild server transfers to assist the player population spreading out.

Also, it would also be helpful to turn the outmanned buff into something useful, say 50% increased damage + 50% reduced damage + that gold CC buff that bosses get. Sure that seems powerful, but it only happens when one side drastically outnumbers another side, so they need some kind of powerful boost to even have a snoflake’s chance in hell.

Redundancy.7325:

And if they don’t like the queue, they have the exact same option available to the prime time players to fix it: switch servers. Hopefully they’ll take that opportunity to further spread out the off peak server populations which means everybody gets to play more often, just like prime time.

I don’t see the problem

Uhh no, people group in clumps at other timezones because there are fewer of us – we cluster so we can also do cooperative things like DEs and dungeons and whatnot. You can’t ask us to evenly spread out because we’d be isolated and unable to find groups at our hours.

What we need to aim for are servers with 24/7 populations who play against each other, and a bunch of non-24/7 servers, who play against each other.

lollie.5816:

Redundancy.7325:

And if they don’t like the queue, they have the exact same option available to the prime time players to fix it: switch servers. Hopefully they’ll take that opportunity to further spread out the off peak server populations which means everybody gets to play more often, just like prime time.

I don’t see the problem

Uhh no, people group in clumps at other timezones because there are fewer of us, so we cluster so we can also do cooperative things like DEs and dungeons and whatnot. You can’t ask us to evenly spread out because we’d be isolated and unable to find groups at our hours.

What we need to aim for are servers with 24/7 populations who play against each other, and a bunch of non-24/7 servers, who play against each other.

It’s my understanding that the only thing your server matters for is WvW. Can you not guest on any other server for DEs, dungeons and what not to play with your friends?

Redundancy.7325:

Can you not guest on any other server for DEs, dungeons and what not to play with your friends?

Just move to a 24/7 server or stay in non-24/7 servers and wait for the matchups to reflect your lack of 24/7 population.

DEs happen on every server, but you need the population at these hours to support them.

worst response ever anet, i am not sure if you looked at other mmos around there and realise you do not get second chances.

Night capping is that dam bad, it is ruining the game for the much larger majority of your players playing in their correct time zones and while i can understand not locking rvr totaly nod reducing the night time points drasticly (for example point uppdate every 45 mins) is gonna be a huge issue and an issue you are getting save some people playing on servers they should not.

What we have notice (my guild WAR and other members) is that if you took out the free transfers of servers to begin with (being we are a month past into the release of this game anyways) you solve the server jumping. Night cap is always a given, has been in daoc for instance sense the game existance, it is what it is. However, server jumping makes that just much worse. Start charging for those transfers with gems, people have settled in and if your worried about new players not getting that “free transfer” till they find their home, flag their account for a free month of transfers.

Alas we beleive do this and you will solve part of the problem. Won’t totally solve it but when you start charging people to hop servers, they will be less likitteno do so.

To everyone : we will never get rid of this issue, it has plagued DAOC the equivlent to this wvwvw and to that end we as a community learned to deal with it or move on. It is the mechanics of the beast, to be fare it has to be anytime.

Now some might bring up the life tree concept given by another rvr type of game, these trees allowed guilds to set times of when something was open for attack. This system is great if the WvWvW wouldn’t reset, but alas it does and I basikittenhink the reset/ new server matchup was the greatest thing ever introduced to this sort of game play. Keeping it fresh and interesting. Personally I live with the idea above, just lock down the transfers with cost and only able to allow transfers once per week, not once per 24 hours.

Tracker[WAR]

Can’t quote (button broken again) but I think the pro-NA hours only people must be crazy (well more likely just blinkered and can’t see other people’s point of view)…why would people transfer (guest) every friggin day when the server we’re already on is working efficiently?

Incidentally doing events/etc on your server gives your guild influence, so switching servers in and out isn’t going to happen, if for that reason alone (and it isn’t just for that reason alone).

Some servers are going to be busier than others – it has happened in every single MMORPG ever released, this is just how things go. Work out which server you want to be on and go from there.

There will always be a population issue for the smaller servers in WvW and DEs and all the rest. This population issue is the heart of this complaint.

The major problem still with wvw is transfers, should just honestly stop them and start charging cash for it. Servers will never be ‘balanced’ until this flawed mechanic is stopped. Furthermore, to all those crying that it will be eventually fixed by server matching mechanics.. you fail to realize that currently there is only so many servers. Thus it will not correct itself due to the limited pool. btw they say this is infractured because i said anet may not care much.. heh.

Kudos to Anet for stating that all players are equally valid, and I hope they do not change point values for people who play at off-peak hours.

Simple solution would be just to make everything a static score. Keeps worth x amount of points and they do not receive points just for holding it unless attacked by other players. Much how you can now receive xp/karma etc for holding it x amount of time while under attack. It would make scores a lot less lopsided.

I posted a suggestion here which relates to this discussion, and mods nerfed it (rightly so as it is reasonably different) so its been moved over to the suggestions forum Alternate Wv3 Implementation

zarg.1853:

Seriously the moderation is really strange we the FR let us can make offend with no problem at all, but as soon as we dare to say that your expensive youngs rosebiff have no level what is the truth the message is directly erased

pathetic…

hehe…forgive my ignorance, but what is an ‘expensive youngs rosebiff’???

zarg.1853:

Seriously the moderation is really strange we the FR let us can make offend with no problem at all, but as soon as we dare to say that your expensive youngs rosebiff have no level what is the truth the message is directly erased

pathetic…

Hehe…and this is why the servers were divided into two groups, Euro and NA (language barrier).

Im going to make a suggestion to the wvw scoring system, as the current one does not reward actual pvp activities. My thought is that rather than scoring over time, one should score based on actual battle and points taken. Therefore here is what I propose:

- reward points for player kills (actual values can vary based on how you want your point set up to be (ie 1 kill offers 1/10 a point)

- reward points for destroying siege weaponry, more points for more valuable pieces

- reward points for actively defending a besieged point. This will use the existing de timer, awarding some points every time it updates. The points rewarded will be scaled based on how many defending players are present in the area at any point during the timer (to prevent abuse) vs how many attackers are present in the same time frame. These points, however, will have no limit. So should you be able to hold a keep indefinitely against the hordes you will score quite a lot of points.

- reward POTENTIAL points for besieging a point. Works the same as defending, but the points build up on the point and are not awarded until the point is captured. To prevent abuse, this system will have a maximum point value based on the target (ie 100 for supply, 250 for tower, 500 for keep and so on). The same process as with defense will occur where your points will be scaled based on active defenders present during the time updates. Further, to award a point advantage to taking objectives, points will scale 2-5 times faster for assaulters (depending on objective type)

- When an objective is captured, allow the attacking team to make one of two choices:

1. Destroy all upgrades on a point for addtional points for capture
2. Keep the point with all its upgrades, but all damage still standing (needs to be repaired)

- When capturing a supply point offer the team the option of “razing” the supply point. This instantly destroys the supply present in the point granting points equal to supply present and requires a player to spend some resources to restore the point before it will begin to generate supplies. This will make small teams of “raiders” more effective and allow for some new strategies to emerge.

Here is my example of how a sample siege would work out: Server A attacks a tower that server B owns. 10 players from B defend the point and 40 from A attack. During the first update, B holds the tower, but looses 2 players in the process. They thenfore will score towerbasepoints * 40/(10+5(defender advantage adjustment)). Say during the next update the defenders loose no additional players so their scoring metric will change to towerbasepoints*40/(8+5). During the 3rd update the tower is taken and no further points are awarded.

Now for the attackers their formula would look like this in the first update: towerbasepoints * 3 (the modifier for a tower) * (10+5)/40. These points would not be awarded right away, but would “pool up” on the tower until it is taken. During the second update the points would look very similar: towerbasepoints*3*(8+5)/40, and during the third update the point is taken so the attacker is awarded the points for the first two updates. Should the attacker fail he gains no points (except for points based on kills).

Going with the example, the attacker now owns the tower and has one of two options: to sack the tower for additional points destroying upgrades on it, or leaving the upgrades and any current damage intact. Lets say this tower currently has 2 upgrades costing a total of 200 supply. Should the attacker decide to sack he will gain 200 additional points. Should he decide to remain he can repair the keep to its former defensive level.

A system similar to this seems the most fair all round to me, but I would like to hear others opinions on a system like this or similar.

I like the idea of points being awarded based around objectives and effort, however, there are several flaws and/or unsolvable issues.

If there are 5 attackers outside, besieging the tower, and 2 trebs bombarding the tower (and lets complicate it further) and also a keep, with 2 spotters who are ranging in the treb and getting it on target. There are really 5 + possibly up to 4 other players besieging the tower. At what point do you decide who is besieging a tower. What happens when another 2 players run past and are PVE’ing on a moa with some aoe which happens to hit the tower too? Do they count?

Or do you base it of ‘nearby’ players and end up excluding the trebbers, but including that big group of ask’ers who have found the optimal spot to sit in and get free xp?

I particularly like the idea that when you take the tower/keep, that upgrades are kept. Don’t know if ANet would like it so much, as one of their money sinks is gone

The first forumula you stated (towerbasepoints * 40/(10+5(defender advantage adjustment)) means the defenders advantage works against themselves. Was that deliberate? So, instead of

towerbasepoints * 40/10) → towerbasepoints * 4

they get towerbasepoints * 40/(15)) → towerbasepoints * (3 2/3rds).

Revised idea:

Every 15 minutes, you gain points proportional to how many enemies played during the last 15 minutes, and how many keeps/castles/etc. you own.

Possibly just using the existing values for locations and multiplying, either up or down, whatever. But those are the values to scale with.

I propose a system where you gain points every 10 minutes by the number of perfectly innocent non-swearword combinations being turned into the word “kitten” people can yell out during their playtime.

and I basikittenhink the reset/ new server matchup was

@lollie.5816

quote button’s broken for me too

My understanding of how guesting is supposed to work (once free server transfers have been turned off) is that you can act as a guest on any server and participate in any PvE related content from that server any time you want to. And you’ll still earn influence for the guild you’re representing on your home server and everything. The only thing guesting doesn’t allow you to do is participate in that server’s WvW or benefit from that server’s WvW bonuses (you get the bonuses from your home world). If your server’s DEs are slow, once guesting is turned on, you can try a different one at any time and you shouldn’t miss out on anything for doing it.

So from what I understand, general PvE, DE’s, dungeons, etc shouldn’t be a consideration at all when considering how (and if) the WvW system needs any adjustment.

Anyhow, in a perfect world, I wish there were a number of top tier servers that could all field relatively equivalent numbers of 24/7 WvW populations. However, I’m not sure that’s the case. If that’s not the case, is your position that there should just be a handful of top tier servers (there seems to be only 1? in NA at the moment) that win by default because of the 24/7 population imbalances? I’m not saying that these servers don’t have good prime time players, simply that it’s mathematically impossible for other servers to compete with them in the current setup.

To that end, is it really sustainable fun to be participating in 100v20v20 fights anyhow? Are you going to log in week after week if one side’s just going to steamroll the other side in off peak hours? That just doesn’t seem good to me for the lasting benefit of even the off peak players. It’s certainly degrading the experience of peak players on servers that can’t compete with that sort of population imbalance.

Other people are suggesting messing with the point accumulations. Aside from whether or not it’s fun to steamroll limited opposition, would you be happy if you weren’t really gaining any points for your efforts because you don’t have sufficient opposition?

I dunno, it seems to me to be a better solution to attempt to enforce somewhat similar competition at any point during the day. I just don’t get how one side perpetually outnumbering all their competition is good for the game at all.

Redundancy.7325:

To that end, is it really sustainable fun to be participating in 100v20v20 fights anyhow? Are you going to log in week after week if one side’s just going to steamroll the other side in off peak hours?

We all want to face decent opposition when we play, so I think we’ll be seeing servers rise that have 24/7 populations – there are a few trying this already. It’s just a matter of waiting for the guilds to come together and organise. People won’t all just sit on the one server in a system like this – they’ll spread out to several just to be able to actually pvp each other. Just wait a bit.

JohnCataldo.9201:

Revised idea:

Every 15 minutes, you gain points proportional to how many enemies played during the last 15 minutes, and how many keeps/castles/etc. you own.

Possibly just using the existing values for locations and multiplying, either up or down, whatever. But those are the values to scale with.

Hmm… when my server pushes your server off the map and hold it for say 2 hours, and then your server starts going to sleep…our points start dropping off slowly until we’re not making a lot of points due to 0 opposition. All good….except, lets pretend we have 20 hours to go…and its close…and we just did that…now all we have to do (if we are far enough in front) is stay off Wv3 and we win!

Also….what happens when I have 200 people on, and you have 10 as opposed to when I have 1 on and you have 10? If it is purely based of the oppositions numbers, I get the same score regardless.

I have the perfect solution!

Each world is allowed to field a certain number of players. Anyone else that wants to join in, goes on a priority queue and get in once then next person leaves etc.

Then what we do, is for each keep/supply camp/tower/castle each side holds, we give them a certain number of points every oh, um…15 odd minutes.

If a server can’t field a team 24×7, they just have to live with it.

We’ll rank each server and then run a leaderboard style thing and reset the instance every 7 days and update the leaderboard which will then be used to match up each server against similarly ranked servers.

Players will be encouraged to either move themselves, or get other players to move to their server, to help get the 24×7 presence they will all want in order to be competitive. Sure, there will be some servers/players this won’t work for, and no doubt they’ll moan and bleat about it endlessly, but what we’ll do, is give them a forum where they can do it together..get it all into one easy to ignore location…and well…ignore it, cause they already know that we’ve invested a large amount of money in the current architecture, so changing it isn’t going to be easy.

But at least they might have gotten some frustration off their chests and maybe, just MAYBE they will have some ideas we haven’t thought of and analysed and thrown out for being biased towards certain player groups.

Worse case, we’ll figure out a way to satisfy 60-80% of the population and the rest will have to make do.

Servers are currently matched based on their previous week’s performance. And let’s be honest, a very large factor in a world’s performance in WvW is based on its population.

With players constantly transferring to higher ranked servers it disrupts whatever balancing is supposed to occur via matching up based on weekly performance.

When transferring servers a player should be restricted from playing WvW until the current weekly match is finished. (Or at worst, allow people transferring to lower ranked servers to play that week, but not those tranfering to higher ranked servers).

The system currently is working fine. Just need to tweak a little. Here’s my thought;

1. Remove free server transfer.
Replace with Black Lion token (purchase with GEMs). One time use for transfer. In way way, Anet earns and transfer less rampant. No more free scouting and spying without real money cost. There’ll be complains by these “people” who get stuck in the servers they’re spying on. Well give them one chance to move back. Everybody will be given a free token. Last free move. It can be sold for 1 gold, so the other players wouldn’t cry unfair, since they’re not the ones moving around servers, they can sell it if they want.

2. Night capping and Out-manned.
Remove the out-manned buff. It doesn’t serve any purpose. Instead of putting all players at level80, raise the level. e.g. In a borderland that has only 10 players, put them at level83. If there’s only 1 player, he’ll be buffed into an elite like a keep lord. Still kill-able. There’ll be people in low populated servers that’ll still find some fun going around defending tower/keep. It’ll take a bigger group to take a tower/keep if you’re there defending, as compare to the current, where you alone or is insignificant to go defend.

Anet seems to have some bad mods who dont know what night capping even is and removing posts

ill repost this link
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/World-vs-World-Player-limits-are-needed

night capping is only a problem because of how unbalanced the servers get when they are not full

there needs to be limits on the servers that lets players know they can hold stuff and still have a chance when they are out numbered

if the lower population servers have 20 players and 15 players the high population server should only have 20+15 players MAX alowed to enter the server

so that would give 35 players MAX even if they had 150 players queued up unless players from the lower teams queued up

if players from the lower teams leave the cap for the Max Population team would shrink but players would not be removed from the game

this would mean late night players can defend without any major issues and not just be like “$#&@ this we have no chance lets leave” and have everything whiped out like what is currently happening