Guild Wars 2

Anyone else find it funny that the general solution to this problem is for people to switch servers that are overseas? NA playing in EU just as EU and oceanic played in NA to take advantage of such sleep periods. Can we end the whole separate servers now for na/eu? At least this way there is more variety of servers to play against.

I’m a noob, and more than a few times I’ve played WvWvW during working hours or during the wee hours of the night, hoping to get easy scores.

It just hasn’t happened: there always seem to be plenty of opponents to offer plenty of fight.

Maybe NA folks with big gripes abut night cappers should try rolling on an EU server.

“Greetings everyone!
We’ve received lots of feedback regarding night capping. Many want to know how Arenanet views this. Our answer is that WvW was developed as a never ending continuous battle.
We feel that everyone should have the ability to contribute no matter what time of the day it is. How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.
This is not saying that we are against any adjustment to scoring, or against developing another mechanic to improve the capping system. This is simply saying that we will not be changing WvW based on some players’ idea of off time hours.
Please use this thread as the main discussion for this topic.”

No player’s time is more valuable than other?
Why should I spend 3 hours of my time to conquer a well defended keep while they can conquer the whole map in 30 minutes?

I get that we want to give all players a fair opportunity to participate, but when this kind of thing happens, there’s no POINT in participating. The problem is obviously endemic to the WvW system, since almost ALL of the realm match-ups are experiencing a huge score disparity.

If ANet isn’t going to control the WvW match population, they will need to do something else to encourage competition, even from worlds that are getting pwned.

Eihder.8961:

Anyone else find it funny that the general solution to this problem is for people to switch servers that are overseas? NA playing in EU just as EU and oceanic played in NA to take advantage of such sleep periods. Can we end the whole separate servers now for na/eu? At least this way there is more variety of servers to play against.

They should have never created NA and EU servers to begin with… I also don’t think it is to late to consolidate the brackets now and create a true “World War”. Language specific servers would have been cool as the global French have proven out already. Many of the EU folks have already mentioned that the predominate communication is in English anyway because that is the shared language across all the countries.

HOD would have had better competition early on and in general I’ve found the EU servers to be more organized and relentless in fighting and build more siege than I’ve ever seen. They fight to fight.. don’t see much about looking for rewards.. sounds like true PvPers to me and could be a good influence to the NA bracket.. the NA bracket can teach them how to properly trash talk and forum war though.

I don’t get the Night Capping argument.
You don’t like how another server capped when you wasn’t there?
What, you think that if you’re not online then the other team isn’t allowed to cap?

I dont get it ._.

I saw a lot of posts I liked so I am going to voice them again to make you realize what we think is the issue.

- Not other Time-Zones

- Not Night- / Morningcrews

- The amount of points gained without resistance
I play on Ruins of Surmnia (Second last) and this week we fought our opponents Fissure of Woe (as always) and Vabbi (as opposed to Drakkar or Dzagonur).
We had epic, and truly epic fights even though we’re such small servers. All maps were contested even FoW which has a tendency to be very quiet. The first night / day we scored 20K for RoS with a small advantage over Vabbi and FoW. However, seeing as FoW and RoS are severely underpopulated in terms of WvW and our entire WvW crew went to bed after, Vabbi managed to retake everything during the morning that by the time the WvW guilds got up again we were behind with only 50% of the points they had.
This has been repeated every day so far where the only difference is the fact that the point difference continues to expand.
In other words, the teams are balanced when there is actual combat to be had. I see all servers use excellent tactics and strategy, I recognize players that I know to be careful for, but there is always one time-gap no matter who we face where all sectors are out-manned and they just rack up points like no tomorrow.
From our end we so no solution but to transfer to a more active WvW server even though we love RoS. From your end I see no plausible solution without destroying WvW except for making points scale-able with amount of players present / facing.

- The game being decided after the first night
When we play against Drakkar, Dzagonur or Whiteside (besides Vabbi and FoW our only opponents), servers whom for 80% of the time out-man us, we lose everything 2h after the reset and hardly ever cap anything back besides the camps (for 5 mins) and the occasional tower (for maybe 10 mins).
This has lead to both us and FoW (again, we are always matched together as the lowest ranked servers) to simply stop playing, making the difference even more apparent. There are days (not moments) we can not leave spawn. It’s gotten so worse at a certain point that my guild transferred to Drakkar for a single day just so we could see the other side. And do you know what they *said? “This match-up is boring.”, “There is no resistance”, “I’m not having fun like this”.
So basically everyone in our match-up is usually not having that good of a time.

This is a lot of text but I do hope it makes it through. Thank you for reading.
Krapuul

I honestly don’t understand the night capping problem. I could cry about each and every single thing as well from the day cappers. Those of us who play at night (the evil night cappers) play at night because we have jobs or school during the day. Why should we be penalized for not being able to play while we are doing those things when the other servers are on capping stuff?

I for one am completely glad that Arena Net is refusing to back down and change how WvW is ran in regards to “night capping”. Kudos to you Arena Net!

@StormMcCloud

Ok, first question’s first. Did you even read the thread? Do you understand that the real issue is not day or night capping? It just has this silly name because it usually happens when you’re asleep, but my night is completely different from other’s people’s nights (different time-zones). This is not being discussed. Please read Krapuul.1758’s post carefully where he made a tl;dr version of the thread.

@StormMcCloud.1587

I can explain the problem to you. One example:
There are a lot of Canadians who play on French (European) servers. They conquer the whole map at night in Europe. During the day, we other European players try to conquer it back. But due to the success of these French servers, they attract a lot of PVP players and our PVP players leave the server. The result is: Complete dominance of these servers during the night and dominance during the day.

Wonder how many gave up WvWvW cause nightcapping ruins the fun of it.

Difficult subject.
Both sides have a point.
You can’t blame people for living on the other side of the world, but you shouldn’t take the effort those on this side of the world put in for granted either.
It’s a shame that around the clock presence is the determining factor in WvW and that actual victory on the battlefield has very very little influence.
That would be different if all servers had equal population distribution, but, as for now, that is a dream.

Do not understand the problem of those mimi … I belive wvw is cool so how it is!

I see two plausible solutions that can work independently or together:

1)Make a “soft” population cap that allows for a near equal pop size for all three servers. I emphasize soft since I think a 10-20% difference is tolerable. This pop cap is the TOTAL for all 4 maps so it still allows server strategies to intentionally imbalance some maps and sacrifice presence in others. Once all servers are within 10-20% of each others pop, then at the next score tick, allow for another batch of folks enter WvW by raising pop cap. If there comes a time when a server loses pop because players are going to bed, then at the next score tick, you prevent new players from the other two servers to enter WvW until the pop re-equalizes. I just suggest the score tick and 10-20% as a time interval and pop difference but clearly these can be adjusted for optimal effect.
I also think, regardless of how you fix it, and to prevent baseless complaints, show the TOTAL pop of WvW players for each server as the sum of all maps but not in each map.

2)Outmanned buff is FALSE advertising at the moment. Base the buff on point accumulation which would also be based on population disparity AND time of imbalance. Something like this: if a server has twice the population of the other two servers then the point rate it can build is halved. Additionally, to prevent demoralization of any server do NOT have the total score for the match at real time. Either completely hide it until 1-2 hrs before server reset or have it update every two days or something. Posting the current point tally rate is fine and would help motivate a server who is currently low on that front.

EDIT: I also thought of one more thing for you Anet guys to think about if it isn’t already a part of your system… Make the server matching system more weighted in population peak time equality rather than score.

You know, I’ve been thinking a lot, and the solution to this might be very simple.

A) Beef up the Outmanned bonus. It should be enticing enough to pull PvE players into WvW.
B) Announce to the entire server “We are outmanned! XXX needs you! (+X% rewards)”

And just see if that helps draw more people into WvW. I mean, even though we have very little population in WvW at these times, the server itself is almost certainly capable of filling up the 600 slots across all maps.

So the real question should be… how do we get more people to get involved when the server needs them the most, and our server leadership isn’t active.
_______________________________________________

The only other simple solution I can imagine would be eliminating EU and NA server categories, and maybe even closing the bottom 3 or 6 servers to force a little more population density and variety.

The same thing happens every night on the Riverside-Arborstone-Seafarer’s Rest wvwvw as you can see on the attached screenshot. I took the screenshot at 4 am German time (= 9 pm Winnipeg; 7 pm Vancouver). We were completly outnumbered. There were roughly guessed 30 players of Riverside (spread across the 4 maps) against 200 players of Arborstone.

The worst thing is you cannot do anything against a full server with just 20-30 people. If they run in a group it is nearly impossible to stop them… So what happens? You build up your domain at day, spend tons of gold and it is overrun at night.. Really?! Right now you can change it back to a one day period! This would make it a little more fair, because nightcappers would also lose their investment. It’s a mess. As far as I understood wvw was designed not to build up every day and lose all night. It is not fair, it is not fun. it is simply destroying the whole point of wvw. Also you top list is a joke, because it is obvious that the top servers are nightcappers. And now servers start to recruit other timezones – looks like this has become the only thing that decides about victory… Well done… You should really implement a kind of timezone block…

Wow if people put this much effort and work into their real life jobs they would be filthy rich. 22 pages of this is absurd.

to those of you against nightcapping: when you’re losing your match, do you leave messages for your own night crew to please not play because you wouldn’t want to disturb the other team’s keeps?

just wondering how strongly you really feel about “nightcapping” is all.

Well, everyone talks about wanting to ensure things are fun for all players. I can tell you that from my perspective, being a player from GoM, that playing against servers that have full populations all day, and all night, makes WvW suck.

At release, GoM had a strong population (5 hour queues for the first week). Now we’re lucky to have 1/4 the population of servers we’re facing throughout the day. What remains of our server seem to be mostly NA players that work or have families. During prime time, we seem able to hold our own if people are playing, but week after week we’re losing players. Many of our “hardcore” PvP guilds have left, leaving several players that want to WvW, and do give it a shot. But ultimately it doesn’t matter. We’re too severely outnumbered , which is leading to more and more people being disheartened with the whole deal and seemingly leaving.

People want to say leave it alone, it’s fun. It is a great idea, and I’m not foolish enough to think that there is a solution that will make everyone happy 100% of the time. I also don’t want to advocate for a system that isn’t fair to the players. But tell me where the fun is for those players that are on the servers that are losing 400k to 50k? Don’t tell me to get more people out to WvW, they won’t come play when we’re trapped at our spawn. Don’t say get more skillz either. Those type of answers are counterproductive, and really add nothing more to the discussion.

I would like to see the orbs removed from the game, or changed to the outmanned buff. The continual glitching/hacking that is done makes the orbs just a means for the larger dominating population to further continue to stomp. Maybe also basing this off of the potential points, like after 45 minutes of 450+ to help the other servers would be a good change. Another thing is that the repair cost in WvW is killer, especially to those that are on the receiving end of the zerg hammer. Why not remove repair cost when you get the outmanned buff? Or how about removing the supply cost for some siege (not golems) for servers that have the outmanned buff?

Overall, one of the biggest issues that I am encountering with being on the receiving end of the dominating, is that it’s almost impossible to get people to want to pay to upgrade keeps/towers/camps knowing that we’re only going to hold them for an hour or so. Due to this, once a map gets cleared, if a server manages to get back into the game, they have no chance to hold whatever they push and retake. It’s also tough to get those same people to want to spend money or badges on siege equipment knowing that there is no benefit to doing so. I know there are people that apparently able to generate mad money in this game, but for a vast majority of the player base, this isn’t the case. Especially for those being dominated. If you can’t take anything, you don’t get karma or gold. DAOC previously addressed this by having a separate funding system that you could use for siege on top of the standard economy (which you have implemented in the form of badges). The problem is, that if you constantly lose in WvW, you can’t get badges worth a darn. Siege cost is rather high in the game, which combined with the lack of generating either badges of gold, is causing more and more people to refuse to spend what little they do get/have on trying to retake things. The net result of all of this typing is that servers like GoM that continue to get smashed, get weaker and weaker every week, leading to more and more discontent with WvW.

After facing Darkhaven who did this vs Ehmry Bay and Northern Shiverpeaks badly I have changed my stance.

I have no problem with night capping. One of three things happen. Either one side nightcaps and has weak daytime hours, there is fighting during the night, or one side just flat out has more people or better coverage from the people they have.

It wouldn’t be fair to handicap a realm that had players staying on for longer because you only had 1 hour to play for example. Nor would it be fair to penalize them for having night forces when they are weak during the day.

Most of the real issue here is the server transfers and the slow rate at which matches are approaching convergence, partially because of those transfers. Both problems should disappear in time and then you will whine about other things.

to any complaining about the ‘night’ why can you only think in relevance to yourself? Night is different per person, a general population may vanish at certain hours but what do you want them to do? Match servers whos time on is near exactly the same? Sorry but no, if your army wants to sleep then it sleeps and looses out. Capping while another server is gone though has not once guaranteed victory, the time people are asleep is less then when they are awake meaning if they PLAY WELL they can hold their leads in the day even if they lost things at night.

This thread really is a big “boo hoo”

WvW is about War, and War does not take a time out. You field the soldier 24/7 and do your job. WvW is not about having fun, it is work. Servers that inspire their people to take up arms at any hour should not be cursed but celebrated.

Teams that go out and capture and defend the map isn’t the problem. The problem is the people that give up and refuse to get back up after they have fallen. This thread is all about the negativity and crying about what everyone else is doing. Turn that energy inward and focus on what you are doing instead of complain about what everyone else is doing; inspire your people to fight back.

No server is 100% dominate. There is an off-peak hour where they lose footing. But I don’t hear you talking about how you captured back the map and defended it from their next primetime wave.

Keep in mind that if this is real world war, the enemy will slit your throat with the sun up or the sun down. Because there is no time out. As with our virtual War it runs for 168 hours non-stop (barring maintenance). What you do with those hours is up to you.

When you are fighting my server and you are here complaining rather than doing your part in the war effort is fine by me… If you are complaining here you are not defending there and giving me an easier win.

“WvW is about War, and War does not take a time out. You field the soldier 24/7 and do your job.”

Then remove the queues. In war there are no QUEUES!!!!!!!

Quoted from someone else who posted previously in here!!

“If everything in war is fair.

Remove – the – queues. Why do we have to fight equally in our prime-time and be underdogs at night (some server’s prime time)?

Why is there an undermanned buff? Why do they get better loot/xp whatever?

I really dont understand this logic.

Yes i know their server cant handle without queue… but you see queue also is an effort in making it equal in numbers. Why? If we have 3x your size on prime time let us zerg it all and enjoy it as you enjoy nightcapping.

Such pathetic excuses."

bla bla bla…..

Night capping is ruining the WvW and its costing you players, FACT.
Whats the point really capping / upgrading stuff vs Night Servers/ Players VS Doors Servers. you’lll lose it all over night anyw. whats the point of doing WvW @ all ?
Next up, whats the point of playing.

<< helps Anet Digging.

Oh If you did actully intend WvW to work this way and gain equal points prime time / offtime, then why are there EU and US servers ?

Fail = Fail

I stopped doing wvw in a great extent only because of this.

If Anet wanted server ranking to mean how much certain server has off-time players.. well, they succeeded.

How to fix WvW:

1: Fair scores, not based on being online when your enemy isn’t.
Score should be based on both number of points captured and number of enemies online. EG at the time the score ticks over, the amount of points is lowered if your team has significantly more players logged in than the enemy (on average for the duration of the score tick). The amount / scale of the lowering is up for debate. This prevents night capping from being such an effective way to gain points, but does not penalise anyone in any particular time zone.

2: Tiers / Ranks for winning. Right now there is zero incentive to win. You gain points, you gain XP, if you’re lucky you earn a little more gold than you spend in repair costs, and some Karma. There’s much easier ways to farm XP and Karma than WvW, so there’s little reason to play other than “for the fun of it”. This is fine for a while, but eventually even the thrills of WvW combat wear off and many of us are now looking for the Metagame. It doesn’t have to be a lot, or complicated, here is a suggestion:

Add an additional map to WvW, much bigger than EB and with much, much more difficult NPC defenders on each heavily fortified point. This would be the “Tier 2” map, and only WvW players who meet the Tier 2 criteria would be allowed to join it, say: Level 80, 1000 kills, 100 keep captures, or whatever. You could keep adding tiers forever really.

3: Rewards for winning. There should be a loot drop for placing first in WvW, automatically given at the end of the round to anyone who logged either X hours, X kills, X supply used etc. There should be awesome loot bags / badges for the people with most kills, most supply used etc. (MVPs) over the 2 weeks. The MVPs on the losing teams should also get slightly reduced awesome loot. Give us a pervious battle summary screen that shows who the MVPs were, who the best commanders were, etc. and a current battle summary that shows who is in the running this cycle.

I’ve ordered them 1 2 and 3 in order of importance. Changes 1 and 3 are simple and quick and will greatly improve WvW. Change 2 is huge but would make it AWESOME.

It’s not just about the capping, it’s also about how many hours the “night servers” can hold the points and get points.
While people who have jobs/school can’t play.
We’ve all heard about people who fail at school, maybe even losing their jobs, cause they sit up playing all night.

What about forcing NA people to play on NA servers, EU players on Eu and so on?
I don’t see any reason to play on servers for people on the other side of the world, except for playing wvwvw without opponents.

My server, Far Shiverpeaks, have pretty much been dominating the european servers at daytime, but we can’t do anything against nightcapping, cause we have work or school at daytime. The amount of points those nightcapping servers get at night/morning, make them win the week after 2-3 days.
We normally do well the first two nights, cause of the weekend, but the next day we’re so far behind there’s no chance to catch up, and the week is basically already lost.

(Just want to add that i am not taking any credit for what my server has done, irl takes too much time for me to participate as much as i want. I’m just trying to point out… errr.. something :p )

I support Anet’s view on Night Capping. Why should anyone be penalised? Why should anyone’s else certain time frame be more important then anyone elses?

People should get off their high horses and remember there is people from Asia, Australia, shift workers and the such who do not and can not play at peak hours.

WvWvW is 24 hours period. Get your server organised, if you want 24 hour coverage, many servers are doing it, there is no reason your server can not do it…..

@Quin

Rubbish! If i buy a game i shouldn’t have to go the extra mile to in order to compete on a level playing field.

Have you been on the receiving end of these one sided matchups?? You know where the whole map is one colour and it isn’t worth entering WvW….

Witchking got a good idea.

Quin is exactly right.

Most people here are crying Fair… Fair… Fair… but what you are really saying is “I want it more convenient to me!”

Organize your server, if it is too much to ask for, then don’t play. Problem solved.

Queues work 2 ways… First and primary reason Queues are good is Balancing active combatants. The second way is punishment to people that log out in combat rather than take a death.

Players that capture at night are typically running during Their Day or Their Primetime. When you cry about fair (convenience for you) you are asking for it not to be fair for them. They sleep too and usually that is your day time where you take everything back.

Also, there is nothing stopping the the 2 losing team to ally and fight the winning team.

No change is necessary to the WvW system… because what it sounds to me is a PEBKAC Error.

DonGivashi.4728:

@Quin

Rubbish! If i buy a game i shouldn’t have to go the extra mile to in order to compete on a level playing field.

Have you been on the receiving end of these one sided matchups?? You know where the whole map is one colour and it isn’t worth entering WvW….

i do! all the time. nsp had a whole week of it last week. didn’t stop us getting some keeps back when we could, though. i guess our server has more fighting spirit than yours?

I’m getting increasingly annoyed by ANets stance on this issue.

Not doing anything is the wrong stance. It’s an ignorant and passive and it’s hurting the game.

I’ve been both on the beneficial side and the losing side of night-capping. In fact I’m a night-capper myself. And I tell you it sucks. There’s no enjoyment in steamrolling entire maps just because you can muster 30 people where the enemy only has a dozen.

Seeing those 2 hours of player vs. doors be rewarded with a MASSIVE point lead by the morning is just dumb.

The scoring system is at fault here, not the players.

The scoring system simply cannot ignore current player activity.

But you know what, I’m absolutely confident you will change the scoring system at one point. Maybe not now, maybe not in a month, but eventually, eventually you will see just how bad it is.

Player A plays during the Day and Player B plays at night.

Why should player B suffer because player A cries that B is taking the Keep when he cannot be there? On the other hand, what about the justice for player B, you do not see him crying about “Day Cappers”

The system is not broken.

ArenaNet cannot force the People that PvE exclusively to WvW.

The solution is the players. Form communities that have like goals, make it requirement of your guild members to participate in WvW around the clock. Reach out on Forums to other guilds on other worlds to move to your server…

Build a better community for yourself and your world…

Crying here for nerfs and changes ONLY hurts the game.

Also keep in mind that B is also a paying customer, just because A is dissatisfied should not mean B should suffer to please A. That is what it comes down to are the Selfish A’s wanting more while the B’s say nothing about the “Day Cappers.”

Sky.9347:

B) Announce to the entire server “We are outmanned! XXX needs you! (+X% rewards)”

I like this idea a lot. Does not need much to code or implement. No balance issues. May get more people involved in wvw, which is more fun for everyone involved.

Made this crappy meme from a screen taken few hours ago, I think it fits this topic

Hmm… I wonder if they ever realised that all players play during different timezones. I’m in Australia but I play during the wee hours which happens to be primetime for my server TC. In last week’s matchup, BG had a superior force compared to ours in the “primetime” (my night) while we had a superior force during their night. We’d regain some land during that time but once the main BG came back on, we’d lose all ground again. Nightcapping, daycapping, they’re all the same.

TC had a good run the other day trying to claim back the keeps and we did for a good solid 2 hours until a BG zerg started to take out us using what I’d describe as clever organised tactics. I wouldnt say we were outnumbered. Looked pretty much even. Simply put, we were outplayed at that point. WvW is a war and is about tactics. Use them rather than complain about having a weaker force at night. You sleep 8 hours a day just like the other players across the world do. What you do with your time is probably the same as what they do with theirs.

It sucks to be on the losing end but if you can’t accept losing once in a while, you should really look at yourself. No one can win everything all the time. You win some, you lose some. I’d say TC is quite a good server. We got absolutely kitten by BG’s score last week but we’re already in a good leading position for this week’s matchup. When you lose, work hard to win next week. Don’t whine now…

And just to add, I absolutely enjoyed fighting BG last week. It was tough but it made winning that much more exciting for me. Different scenario to the start of this week’s matchup, we pretty much wiped out FA and DB after our forces started to gather and it wasn’t without resistance either.

I think every server has a healthy population of oceanic players. If not, please tell me the server with the least of them so I can actually have a window of opportunity to farm Cursed Shore without a zerg size of people.

glenyeo.6038:

I think every server has a healthy population of oceanic players. If not, please tell me the server with the least of them so I can actually have a window of opportunity to farm Cursed Shore without a zerg size of people.

That’s actually pretty easy. just look at the bottom ranking servers. There you go, servers with low amounts of oceanic players.

The single strongest predictor of who will win wvw matchups, excluding T1 where there are queues all day every day, is number of oceanic players on the server. Not actual skill, not prowess during even match-ups, not even richest, but total number of oceanic players.

If you have more oceanic players than your opponents, you almost always win by default. This would be tolerable if server transfers were eliminated or limited, so the bottom-ranked servers could fight similarly-populated non-oceanic servers. Unfortunately, the rankings of servers keeps changing drastically due to players swapping from server to server daily or weekly, thus preventing any sort of stability in server rankings.

A 100 point lead that lasts for 6 hours for a server during daytime is completely negated in a single hour by a server that has a 600 point lead due to nightcapping.

Thus, if we value a person’s time based on actual possible results, the time that I spend during primetime is about 1/6th as valuable an oceanic player’s time, who by the way, is playing on a North American regional server.

I’m to the point where I don’t even bother upgrading stuff toward the end of primetime anymore because there is simply no point. No amount of upgrades, skill or tactics can change the outcome when you’re outmanned on every server 3:1 for half the day.

What kind of ‘pro’ guilds even rolled to different region servers so they could mown down empty maps during the night?
What enjoyment would anyone get out of it?

Undermine.1678:

Queues work 2 ways… First and primary reason Queues are good is Balancing active combatants. The second way is punishment to people that log out in combat rather than take a death."

Queues punish those that have a majority during prime time or peak play, nothing more. Simply make it impossible to log out while in combat.

Undermine.1678:

“Why should player B suffer because player A cries that B is taking the Keep when he cannot be there?”

Why should player A over come the extra burden of fortified defenses built up during off peaks ours, while being handicapped with queues during peak ours?

DonGivashi.4728:

@Quin

Rubbish! If i buy a game i shouldn’t have to go the extra mile to in order to compete on a level playing field.

Have you been on the receiving end of these one sided matchups?? You know where the whole map is one colour and it isn’t worth entering WvW….

I have been on the other side of this before and on it. It has not had to do with night capping, it has to do with superior force and tactics, a better server dominates, stop looking for excuses.

I wont go through and read all these posts so if i’m repeating , my apologies. Why not place NPC soldiers at the guns so to speak. Base the numbers on how many are in the WvW on all 3 teams. Use them to defend the points. Have them on cannons, carts, etc. Make it so that they slow down the night caps. As more people join for the teams that need them they go away as they die. It would give a semblance of defense rather than one team steamrolling the others at night because their server is in a different TZ.

Rubbish! If i buy a game i shouldn’t have to go the extra mile to in order to compete on a level playing field.

I agree!

If your server is being outplayed at noon because the other server is better at tactics or has more people, THIS SHOULD BE NERFED! Strategy should now be impossible, because how DARE you have to go the extra mile of makin strategy when you just wanna play! You shouldn’t have to go the extra mile to in order to compete on a level playing field!!!

If your server loses a keep because you kept being distracted by that one player you all chased down like fools, this is NOT OK AND SHOULD BE NERFED! If players attack a keep while the defense is elsewhere, the keep should not be allowed to fall! You shouldn’t have to go the extra mile of being there to defend the keep to in order to compete on a level playing field.!!!!

Bad players always make excuses like that. At the end of the day, there is always an imbalance because one side WILL play better than you, have better strategy than you, and have better logistics than you.

Folks, look. Logistics are a large part of war. And this? Is a logistic issue. Don’t want to deal with logistics?

Then watch your server crash and burn, as it should.

As much as i like sarcasm it is obvious a few people dont get the problem so let me spell it out in more simple terms. Why is a pvp matchup being decided by pve? yes i have done and received nightcapping and yes its just pve. Bashing in keep doors and killing npcs does not equal pvp. For that there needs to be actual players involved, otherwise may as well just stick to pve events. As for the whole ‘war’ argument.. no its not war, not even close. Add in perma death and i would agree. Maybe lock people out for a week if you die in wvw and i would say its more like war.

6x the reward for 1/10th of the effort.

Nightcapping is such an effective strategy, you can use it almost exclusively and still win!

>>> We feel that everyone should have the ability to contribute no matter what time of the day it is.

This is great, but what about the rest of the players, who do not and cannot play during midnight that are getting negatively affected by TINY MINORITY of graveyard shift players?

Simple truth – having night capping crew is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT WvW aspect any server could have. Night capers guarantee that a server starts with 600+ points, fully upgraded everything, 3 orbs and full supplies. More often than not, this is not a position you could recover from.

As of right now night capers have EQUAL IMPACT than PRIME TIME players. This is just WRONG!

This is great, but what about the rest of the players, who do not and cannot play during midnight that are getting negatively affected by TINY MINORITY of graveyard shift players?

Simple truth – having night capping crew is probably THE MOST IMPORTANT WvW aspect any server could have. Night capers guarantee that a server starts with 600+ points, fully upgraded everything, 3 orbs and full supplies. More often than not, this is not a position you could recover from.

As of right now night capers have EQUAL IMPACT than PRIME TIME players. This is just WRONG!

You’re right, it’s not quite equal. They have an advantage. Not a huge one and not a tiny one. A decent advantage. But the real reason people lose vs night cappers is the morale loss. People simply give up. That is the bulk of the advantage.

If most of your people give up when it looks like you are going to lose then you’ll always be losing in your proper tier because it’s too easy to break your morale.

Night servers will fall into 1 of 2 categories:

1. Do not have as high of population as you doing the day. (Take advantage of it)

2. Simply have more people than your server does.

If it’s #1 then you can fight it. If it’s #2 then the battle was going to be a tough one no matter what and that’s not the fault of night capping.

So get out there and fight. If you’re outnumbered? FIGHT!!. If you’re being night capped? FIGHT!!. If you’’re losing? FIGHT!!. I cannot promise you will win. But I can promise that you will do alot better if you keep fighting and you keep your server fighting as well.

Besides, if you get discouraged and run away with your tail tucked between your legs then how do you even feel brazen enough to complain? You have to give it your full effort and have your server give it’s full effort too for you to have any idea how much of a disadvantage night capping is.

Oh, and this is aimed at Anet.

Night capping is more of a question of population imbalance than anything else. You guys needs to give more help and more incentive to the little guys in a fight. The ones who are outnumbered and outgunned trying to take back full maps.

If you give them enough incentive to get out there and fight even when things look hopeless ten problems like this will largely if themselves. Not through any direct action of yall, but because people will actually FIGHT IT.

But there definitely needs to be something. Your average person doesn’t have the fortitude to handle the devastating blow to morale that being completely outnumbered at any time of day brings to the table with out.

Heck, I would not be opposed to NPC forces spawning after a predefined amount of time to help people out. Anyone that complains about servers getting absolutely whomped getting a little NPC help to take back their corner of the map is not a true PVP player.