Guild Wars 2

WvW is GW2s PvP.

More people play it than sPvP/tPvP…..anet give it up please and listen to the majority of your players.

Its time to put the arenas on the back burner and focus all pvp dev time solely on WvW. Keep the PvE dev time since Pve numbers trump all.

I want better char progression in WvW….while I appreciate the last update let us be honest. Its a lil kitten.

Thank you for you’re time.

ps. I know some sPvP people will come here with some hate….if I wanted to play conquest id play battlefield. I get way more maps, can use all classes, and fly kittening helos.

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

I’m pretty sure, atleast in T1 and possibly T2, throughout the day thousands of players go into WvW intotal, other tiers could be close to that too, but lesser extent. I’m not even sure that many sPvP considering not many rooms in sPvP are ever filled and only 8v8 if full.

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

It’s hardly a surprise.

The PvP in GW2 is simply not a patch on GW1. I’m sure some people like it, but GW1 had pvp flooding out of every orifice. PvP right off the bat in pre-searing. Arenas for all levels, premades, random and team arenas, Alliance battles. GvG. HoH. Combine with the astounding variety of builds and people you could play about with. Even the PvE had more oomph to it than GW2. What a game it was!

The proper PvP in GW2 just, seems tired already, and for me it’s never appealed, and I’m a PvP/FPS/kill-other-people-in-computer-games nut. So WvW it is, and happily T1 EU atm is non-stop killing between 3 complementary servers.

Open world PvP will always be better than arena PvP.

GW1 pvp was fun but not my cup of tea.

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Devs have the numbers. Either OP is right or not.

We need a Jade Quarry or Fort Aspenwood. I wish ANet could have done the Flame and Frost story a little better, make it so that the Norn and the Charr had a little quibble and then introduce a competitive mission based on that. I don’t even care if they make it so that you grind faction for an armor set, the same as you do in WvW (with badges and gold).

OP is more then likely right, but that’s cause the care bear population who like stat and numbers advantages over skillful play on an even field have always outnumbered those that don’t.

im not a big fan of wvw progression as its spawned obsessed wxp trains who only care what rank they instead of actually helping the server, however i recognize that it is crucial to keep people interested in the format.

extra skins, extra wxp rank options in time would be nice i suppose.

Jinks.2057:

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

That doesn’t actually prove anything. Quite a few people play tournaments, and you can’t track the populations of those in-game. Nice try, though.

WvW is a much better esport than sPvP would ever be. It is like Rome: Total War, life action edition.

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Ever heard of a sPvP only guild?

I know many people that do sPvP. But they only play that on the side, and are mostly wvwers most of the time.

Valkyriez.6578:

OP is more then likely right, but that’s cause the care bear population who like stat and numbers advantages over skillful play on an even field have always outnumbered those that don’t.

Ah but the OP also realizes that taking out 5x or more your number is only possible in the real PvP zone

Stormleaf.1769:

Jinks.2057:

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

That doesn’t actually prove anything. Quite a few people play tournaments, and you can’t track the populations of those in-game. Nice try, though.

O im sorry I forgot that there’s never a wait time to find a tPvP match…..or never a match where one side has less numbers.

Wait a sec……

Im right and everyone knows it. The Devs just are being stubborn about acknowledging ir……

Jinks.2057:

Open world PvP will always be better than arena PvP.

GW1 pvp was fun but not my cup of tea.

GW2 arena PvP could have been good, but it’s simply using the wrong game mode. GW2 combat in GW1-style team arenas / GvGs would have been much more entertaining.

So I stick to WvW, which isn’t the way I’d prefer it either, but it’s a lot closer than capture points.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Ben K.6238:

Jinks.2057:

Open world PvP will always be better than arena PvP.

GW1 pvp was fun but not my cup of tea.

GW2 arena PvP could have been good, but it’s simply using the wrong game mode. GW2 combat in GW1-style team arenas / GvGs would have been much more entertaining.

So I stick to WvW, which isn’t the way I’d prefer it either, but it’s a lot closer than capture points.

Yes you are correct in that sPvP game type is killing sPvP.

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Mark Jacobs is the head…he killed DAoC and this is only a kittened up money grab.

TES online with Matt Frior has more upside IMHO but even those fail when compared to Lord British’s new plan.

I don’t know which has more players because I simply don’t play PvP, but, I feel like most people think WvW has more players because there are zergs…

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

That is such a misleading piece of crap.

The limitation in MMO’s is when you increase the number of participants, the amount of data needed to be calculated scales like crazy because everyone effects everyone else.

All that video shows is a bunch of bots walking around near each other, which represents minimal load to client and server because there isn’t much to calculate.

Zaqq.8724:

I don’t know which has more players because I simply don’t play PvP, but, I feel like most people think WvW has more players because there are zergs…

Dunno know what to say to this one besides why are you on the pvp forums?

I think that aNet should let www be random zerging and start to focus GvG.

What puzzles me is this: what difference would it make?
Because let’s face it: spvp/tpvp isn’t getting all the new shinies either, are they?
Shinies not being gear, but being new maps, new gamemodes, new features… whatever. New stuff.

They got a ranking system that puts premade versus solo queuers again, and most aren’t happy about it.

WvW got promises of a big patch in februari, postponed to March, being rather underwhelming in April.
Guess what: spvp/tpvp had the same disapointment on that promise…

Seems the resources and ideas in this game go to pve mostly.
Not exclusively, but mostly.

WvW gets very little in my view.
But spvp/tpvp isn’t getting a lot either in that same book of mine…

Kimbald.2697:

WvW gets very little in my view.

The real issue was the dev team for WvW.

Habib Loew who was in charge since launch is a programmer. His role was primarily in the performance and stability issues of WvW.

Now that the WvW team lead has changed to Devon Carter, who is a game designer, you can expect a lot more response to gameplay issues, and more than likely some refinement and expansion of WvW.

sPvP is easier, in theory, to monetize than WvW. They have those tournament ticket thingies of whatever they are.

The sPvP system was designed from the get go to be an income generator plus eSPORT!! ESPORT!! OMG!! ESPORT!!!!!!

Seriously, someone over at ArenaNet / NCSoft has a thing for eSports and sPvP was supposed to be an incredible eSport offering. I have no idea how that has turned out or not. Somehow it seems to me that this is more of a NOT then a success. However, it’s clear that was the thinking.

WvW is incredible, it works as it is, and it isn’t well monetized. So, from a business perspective over at ArenaNet there is little to no reason to dedicate any resources to it. Resources cost money. WvW as it is doesn’t bring in money.

Therefore, put the resources where money is made – PvE.

I wish that ArenaNet would figure out how to monetize WvW in a manner that would not destroy or fundamentally alter WvW. I -want- to see Guilds having a greater function in WvW (guild halls off of SM perhaps) just… something more. But, until ArenaNet figures out how to generate a significant income stream from WvW it will be ignored since it works as it is so why mess with it?

Seriously, since the game’s release WvW has remained popular. Of course, I think it could be sooooooooooooo much better but that’s me and they haven’t asked me for my opinion or thoughts on how to improve it.

Jinks.2057:

WvW is GW2s PvP.

More people play it than sPvP/tPvP…..anet give it up please and listen to the majority of your players.

Its time to put the arenas on the back burner and focus all pvp dev time solely on WvW. Keep the PvE dev time since Pve numbers trump all.

I want better char progression in WvW….while I appreciate the last update let us be honest. Its a lil kitten.

Thank you for you’re time.

ps. I know some sPvP people will come here with some hate….if I wanted to play conquest id play battlefield. I get way more maps, can use all classes, and fly kittening helos.

Agreed. If Anet doesn’t put more time and energy into WvW many people will tire of it and move on to another game. For many players the only end-game in GW2 is WvW.

Definitely agree, OP.

I just wish the WvWvW areas were more interesting. We’re in the mists so why not take advantage of that and make all the zones look unique? Floating fortresses, areas filled with swirling magical mists and so on would make for some seriously neat additions and take away from the repetitive nature of the WvWvW meta.

Jinks.2057:

Zaqq.8724:

I don’t know which has more players because I simply don’t play PvP, but, I feel like most people think WvW has more players because there are zergs…

Dunno know what to say to this one besides why are you on the pvp forums?

Guild Wars 2 → Forums → forum → World vs World → Ok its time for some truths/realizations. And I’m pretty sure most people here are comparing the two…which is why I’m even typing in the first place.

I feel exactly the same way. I have said before that I thought an offshoot of WvW would be what they were proposing as an e-sport. I was actually REALLY excited about this, and is one of the main reasons I decided to support the game. What I found was just another node cap game… Been There. Done That. A lot…

My only hope is that custom arenas will give a massive numbers of options in time (I dont expect it at launch). Including tons of different map sizes (maybe even player made maps), objectives to win (kills, objectives, node caps, specific amount of combo finishers), custom AoE caps, defend/attack modes (group gets the keep, while another needs to take it in X amount of time), and much more.

I have no idea what the population difference is, but I would be interested to see the actual numbers.

Mif.3471:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

That is such a misleading piece of crap.

The limitation in MMO’s is when you increase the number of participants, the amount of data needed to be calculated scales like crazy because everyone effects everyone else.

All that video shows is a bunch of bots walking around near each other, which represents minimal load to client and server because there isn’t much to calculate.

Yeah except it was demod again today with 1k toons, it’s not even optimized yet so it’s useing the same amount of triangles no matter how far away the toon is and it was still running smooth. It’s really just showing how well an engine can run when it’s built just for large scale conflict. So if anything this has nothing to do with GW2 since this game is in order a pve game with strong support for tpvp/spvp and lastly a wvw game.

WvW is the pretty little gem of GW2. I played WoW and Rift, and the sPvP of GW2 does not stand out significantly from that offered in those other MMOs. By contrast the large scale pvp in WoW sort of stinks, and in games like Rift you had to really go to a PvP server for open world to get a similar experience, with much more ganking and griefing. The strategic play of WvW in GW2 is on par with the best I have played to date (DAOC), and has potential to exceed that. A good strategy for a gaming company is to improve your standout area so as to maintain your lead and continue to drive off competition. Rather than try to make sPvP stand out from competitors, I think dev effort in WvW would achieve more lasting gains and draw more people into this game.

My specific feedback is do not get sucked into the nerf parade that happened in DAOC and other games, where the following process happens:

1. player complains about class X
2. devs nerf class X so everything is boring and balanced
3. class y now stands out as more poweful, and becomes class X. Proceed to step 1.

Over time all of the complaining and moaning from the player base for nerfs resulted in a boring gray mush of classes that were not fun to play in my mind.

Focus instead on making large scale strategic play more common. Right now this means making non zerg play more appealing. There are lots of things you can do like

-add refreshing siege to the daily
-add repairing walls/doors in WvW to the daily

This would directly reward those who do thankless but necessary tasks in WvW, and drag more people from the PvE side into the WvW side.

-make maps larger so a single zerg can not defend all

This will encourage sub division of the map and discourage stacking all players into a single zerg for defense.

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

fighting ?
on gw2 i spam 2 area skills /second, -game will pick random 5targets that i hit, will calculate damage for each 1, visual efect for other 200 players
every player got diferent armor/weapon /dye, appearance, on that video all bots were same, not fighting , no area effects, no damage calculation

Straegen.2938:

I would love to see a server that is essentially a PvP server. The only people you cannot attack are fellow guild mates and throw in a small handful of safe areas such as Lions Arch. Would be nice to allow guilds to ally themselves as well. Add in some rotating map based objectives and suddenly we have dozens of new maps, enemies to kill and tactics to develop.

Or you could teleport whole guild in other server and kill stuff. Would be hilarious gank people when they try to do PvE events.

Jinks.2057:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Mark Jacobs is the head…he killed DAoC and this is only a kittened up money grab.

TES online with Matt Frior has more upside IMHO but even those fail when compared to Lord British’s new plan.

Interesting that you call Camelot Unchained a money grab but not Shroud of the Avatar which IMHO is far more of a money grab from someone who could easily afford to fund development himself. And AFAIK Shroud of the Avatar won’t have RvR type PvP anyway.

Just some numbers to wrap Ur head around here. There are 51 server. If only 500 people from each server played wvw that is 25500 people. As I sure most of you would agree the number of wvw per server is probably more like 700-1000 per day

Samhayn.2385:

Mif.3471:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

That is such a misleading piece of crap.

The limitation in MMO’s is when you increase the number of participants, the amount of data needed to be calculated scales like crazy because everyone effects everyone else.

All that video shows is a bunch of bots walking around near each other, which represents minimal load to client and server because there isn’t much to calculate.

Yeah except it was demod again today with 1k toons, it’s not even optimized yet so it’s useing the same amount of triangles no matter how far away the toon is and it was still running smooth. It’s really just showing how well an engine can run when it’s built just for large scale conflict. So if anything this has nothing to do with GW2 since this game is in order a pve game with strong support for tpvp/spvp and lastly a wvw game.

Triangles put strain on the video card, and MMO’s are never video card bound.

The problem faced is CPU usage of client AND server, and that video isn’t doing anything that causes high CPU load. Hell, it’s not even doing anything that causes high video card load with it’s shared textures and zero effects.

It’s absolute misleading bullkitten of the highest order.

I wonder this every day. I have never talked to or known anyone who takes spvp seriously. The only reason anyone I know does any spvp is for the titles and occasionally to try out a new class. Where is this so called new e-Sport that is going to take the world by storm. The developers need to realize 2 things:

1) Wvw is full of potential. Even in its rather disregarded state its very popular and, so far, hasn’t required much to make it better. People have been dying for wvwvw combat since DAOC and no one else is as close as you to actually making that happen.

2) Spvp is not the future. Most of that audience is playing DOTA 2 or LoL and the rest are content to run battlegrounds in WoW. Tell your shareholders your sorry you promised them an e-sport but now you have a new thing called WvW that you think they will like.

Mif.3471:

Samhayn.2385:

Mif.3471:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

That is such a misleading piece of crap.

The limitation in MMO’s is when you increase the number of participants, the amount of data needed to be calculated scales like crazy because everyone effects everyone else.

All that video shows is a bunch of bots walking around near each other, which represents minimal load to client and server because there isn’t much to calculate.

Yeah except it was demod again today with 1k toons, it’s not even optimized yet so it’s useing the same amount of triangles no matter how far away the toon is and it was still running smooth. It’s really just showing how well an engine can run when it’s built just for large scale conflict. So if anything this has nothing to do with GW2 since this game is in order a pve game with strong support for tpvp/spvp and lastly a wvw game.

Triangles put strain on the video card, and MMO’s are never video card bound.

The problem faced is CPU usage of client AND server, and that video isn’t doing anything that causes high CPU load. Hell, it’s not even doing anything that causes high video card with it’s shared textures and zero effects.

It’s absolute misleading bullkitten of the highest order.

True, they also mentioned this. Also, the textures aren’t shared, they are individually loaded. From the last CU update on kickstarter:

“When you can use DirectX 11 as a baseline (entirely reasonable for a 2015 launch), there’s a huge amount of work you can offload to the graphics card, and that’s a good thing for us. Right now, with 1000 characters, we’re hitting around 6% CPU load. That gives us all the room we need to do the kind of prediction, decoding, and lag compensation we’ll need to handle the networking for a ton of players and “real” projectiles in a very dynamic world. I’m looking forward to sharing — and maybe even playing — that with you!”

In regards to the effects:

“Now, where we’re going with things: Over the next week, I’ll be tweaking this some more and dropping in an effects system. A lot of people have been saying “but how will it go with effects???”, so we’ll answer that for you. We’ve got a really powerful design for the tech, heavily inspired by something the tech director on Wildstar showed me back in the days when we worked together at Troika. (The game industry is a very small place.) A little story on that — on one of the projects we had at the time, an artist came to me and said his level was running a little slow, and I found out that he’d accidentally spawned out five million invisible particles that were bouncing around forever. The fact that we could sustain that on 2002 hardware gives me great optimism for what we can do on modern hardware and taking advantage of GPU computing.”

One last thing I should mention, $25 gets you the game, a free month, and access to Beta 3 ($30 gets you access to Beta 2). If you want in the betas anyway, might as well take it while you have the chance. You’ll be saving yourself some money too.

morrolan.9608:

Jinks.2057:

jimdove.5704:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

Mark Jacobs is the head…he killed DAoC and this is only a kittened up money grab.

TES online with Matt Frior has more upside IMHO but even those fail when compared to Lord British’s new plan.

Interesting that you call Camelot Unchained a money grab but not Shroud of the Avatar which IMHO is far more of a money grab from someone who could easily afford to fund development himself. And AFAIK Shroud of the Avatar won’t have RvR type PvP anyway.

No it should be purely open thus >>>>> WvW

Boulderbolg.3460:

In regards to the effects:

“Now, where we’re going with things: Over the next week, I’ll be tweaking this some more and dropping in an effects system. A lot of people have been saying “but how will it go with effects???”, so we’ll answer that for you. We’ve got a really powerful design for the tech, heavily inspired by something the tech director on Wildstar showed me back in the days when we worked together at Troika. (The game industry is a very small place.) A little story on that — on one of the projects we had at the time, an artist came to me and said his level was running a little slow, and I found out that he’d accidentally spawned out five million invisible particles that were bouncing around forever. The fact that we could sustain that on 2002 hardware gives me great optimism for what we can do on modern hardware and taking advantage of GPU computing.”

That’s not actually addressing anything, he’s never once mentioned inter-object interactions, he’s just talking about being able to put stuff on a screen. I can make matLAB put millions of stuff on the screen but the moment I actually have that stuff interact in a non-linear and trivial fashion, the moment I need to upgrade from a PC to QUEST or similar supercomputer architecture.

What the former poster was addressing was this interaction environment that goes behind the particle effects and shinnies, as well as all the data that is never even taken into account when all of the stuff is non-identical. The GW2 engine may not be optimized all that well for 240 living people piling up on top of one another and interacting in a completely chaotic and exponential fashion, but I’m going to take a guess that if you just had a thousand bots, all identical, standing around doing nothing… that the game engine would render and handle it just fine because none of the actual CPU load would be present.

Vena.8436:

Boulderbolg.3460:

In regards to the effects:

“Now, where we’re going with things: Over the next week, I’ll be tweaking this some more and dropping in an effects system. A lot of people have been saying “but how will it go with effects???”, so we’ll answer that for you. We’ve got a really powerful design for the tech, heavily inspired by something the tech director on Wildstar showed me back in the days when we worked together at Troika. (The game industry is a very small place.) A little story on that — on one of the projects we had at the time, an artist came to me and said his level was running a little slow, and I found out that he’d accidentally spawned out five million invisible particles that were bouncing around forever. The fact that we could sustain that on 2002 hardware gives me great optimism for what we can do on modern hardware and taking advantage of GPU computing.”

That’s not actually addressing anything, he’s never once mentioned inter-object interactions, he’s just talking about being able to put stuff on a screen. I can make matLAB put millions of stuff on the screen but the moment I actually have that stuff interact in a non-linear and trivial fashion, the moment I need to upgrade from a PC to QUEST or similar supercomputer architecture.

What the former poster was addressing was this interaction environment that goes behind the particle effects and shinnies, as well as all the data that is never even taken into account when all of the stuff is non-identical. The GW2 engine may not be optimized all that well for 240 living people piling up on top of one another and interacting in a completely chaotic and exponential fashion, but I’m going to take a guess that if you just had a thousand bots, all identical, standing around doing nothing… that the game engine would render and handle it just fine because none of the actual CPU load would be present.

Yay someone gets it!

Jinks.2057:

morrolan.9608:

Interesting that you call Camelot Unchained a money grab but not Shroud of the Avatar which IMHO is far more of a money grab from someone who could easily afford to fund development himself. And AFAIK Shroud of the Avatar won’t have RvR type PvP anyway.

No it should be purely open thus >>>>> WvW

Open world PvP isn’t RvR.

morrolan.9608:

Jinks.2057:

morrolan.9608:

Interesting that you call Camelot Unchained a money grab but not Shroud of the Avatar which IMHO is far more of a money grab from someone who could easily afford to fund development himself. And AFAIK Shroud of the Avatar won’t have RvR type PvP anyway.

No it should be purely open thus >>>>> WvW

Open world ala UO>>>>>> RvR>>>>>> Arena

That’s how it is mate

Open world PvP isn’t RvR.

I completely agree with this thread. The fact is that GW2’s PvE and story are not very interesting or superior to other MMO’s. It’s strength lies in the dynamic meta-game present in builds and strategies for PvP and WvW. I think ANet is making a huge mistake by allocating resources to things like ascended item, guild missions and the living story at the expense of WvW content, but then again I don’t have any stats on what people are playing.

Czar Peter.7961:

I completely agree with this thread. The fact is that GW2’s PvE and story are not very interesting or superior to other MMO’s. It’s strength lies in the dynamic meta-game present in builds and strategies for PvP and WvW. I think ANet is making a huge mistake by allocating resources to things like ascended item, guild missions and the living story at the expense of WvW content, but then again I don’t have any stats on what people are playing.

totally agree, plus, PvE’ers will get bored and leave no matter how much content you throw at them. Anet could have their staff working around the clock just to drop new content into PvE (sometimes I think they do) and players would still just devour the content, and then be off for the next game.

us WvW players have been playing on the same 4 (really 2, but whatever) maps since the beginning of the game and been making our own exciting moments out of the tiny amount of real estate that we have. meanwhile PvE players could take the most intricate and exciting map in the world, and find the most optimal way to run the same 3 events, get bored and leave.

that’s the one thing that sPvP does get, new maps, they have some fantastic maps with great scenery, fun terrain and a few fairly interesting side mechanics, but ultimately, it won’t do anything to help sPvP at all because it’s just not a game mode that works. Give WvW players one, maybe 2 new zones, and we will do more with those 2 zones than PvE players could do with an entire continent.

Polismassa.6740:

Give WvW players one, maybe 2 new zones, and we will do more with those 2 zones than PvE players could do with an entire continent.

truth!

Jinks.2057:

Florgknight.1589:

So how do you plan to prove more people play WvW?

Enter the mists.

Goto server browser and add up all numbers.

Next go compare those numbers to JQs WvW population.

Thank you

Probably not a very good test to see which one is more popular, but the point still stands: WvW has almost certainly overtaken PvP in popularity. For me, the indicators of this are the fact that the PvP community is far, far more homogenous in its beliefs, while the WvW population has an extremely diverse set of beliefs that you would expect, coming from plenty of different servers and with all of these people who have different play experiences.

Personally, I love WvW; I really only use PvP to test out new builds. WvW is just… Epic. In every way.