Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I know it’s been discussed over and over but are there any ACTUAL plans by the dev. team to address the horrible WvW ranking system?

Playing the same servers over and over and over especially when it’s a no contest every week is a good reason enough to get bored and look for something else to play.

Done matter if they keep bringing content in WvW, the ranking system is broken and it’s pushing people away.

I recommend this as superior in all ways to the current system:

1. Player kills during a window are worth 1 point (can be disabled if they are worth little/no WXP to punish farming).
2. Objective takes are also worth 1 (or maybe more) points during the window.

With these two combined, we now have an indication of how much activity is going on during that window, and we can do the following:

3. At tick, objectives are each worth X% of the total points earned during the window. This means they are actually worth an amount of points based on activity and difficulty.

This will subtly and not-so-subtly change a lot of behavior in people who care about the scoreboard. Now getting most people to care about the scoreboard is the next trick (I suggest rewards that don’t suck and happen no matter what, and maybe a score handicapping system).

I agree with your points OP but I think player kills should be worth a minimum of 5 and 10 if your outmanned. Same with taking over the objectives, It needs to rival the current point system, 1 is just way too low. It would definitely change the face of the game. Coverage wouldn’t really mean squat anymore, just who are the better strategists.

In my opinion anyway, the ticks from keeping camps/towers/keeps etc.. should just be bonus points.

no, leave it as is. I personally enjoy stale matchups against the same servers that drag on for weeks on end

meep.2601:

no, leave it as is. I personally enjoy stale matchups against the same servers that drag on for weeks on end

So does ArenaNet apparently.

This seems a decent suggestion, If the percentage X variation is locked between say 90-100 % of old ppt, then I would think it could work. While maintaining the current PPT match style.

If it was moved to a player kills is more important than coverage style of scoring there would be a number of other factors to be adjusted as well, including a need to actually balance. ( not that I dislike that thought )

My personal suggestion for freshening matches without much work required by devs is;

Drop all upgrade costs to 10 silver 500 karma and current supply , AND
Reset all structures every 6 hrs daily.

Just simplify things… winner of the week moves up a tier, loser moves down, middle server stays put… So you get two new servers every week guaranteed.

Every week will then be different except for the bottom and top tiers where you have 2 servers that stay put and only one changes each week.

Sure there will be cases where you face the same servers every 2 weeks but on the whole it will shake things up enough to keep it interesting.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Just simplify things… winner of the week moves up a tier, loser moves down, middle server stays put… So you get two new servers every week guaranteed.

Except a server that might be winning in one tier doesn’t mean they will accomplish anything but get morally crushed in a higher tier when coverage numbers change drastically.

Take, for example, TC/DB in T2 of NA. They have both won in their tier a few times and (now) DB is shaping up to possibly replace JQ if the transferring continues. Do you know what would have happened to either in T1 had they gone before the heavy stacking? Farmed by the other two servers day in and day out, and absolutely wiped off the maps at certain hours because of the coverage gaps that are blatantly apparent between T1 and T2 servers. And then log into to be faced with fortified, waypointed keeps everywhere.

You may not like stale (but “relatively” balanced) matches but I’m sure you’re going to like getting smeared, while being farmed for PPT and bags, into the ground even less.

Vena… I disagree… sure some servers will go up a tier and be out of their depth for a week… so what? They will drop back down the following week.

I can’t speak for NA anymore as it has been a while now since I did wvw there… but on the EU servers, it is not really about servers being powerful but particular guilds.

Don’t get me wrong… the randoms, the guildless, and the small guilds all contribute greatly to a server’s overall performance… and I really want to impress that they are valuable and greatly appreciated… but it is really the wvw guilds that do the farming.

Viz may be top of tier 1 again… but they never ever farmed us when we were on SFR. For the most time they ran away… and if they were foolish enough to stay they were the ones who got farmed until eventually we went to bed. And it was not just our guild either… VcY, ZDs, RG, VoTF, GH, and many many more… Organised guilds capable of fielding a small zerg of about 20-30 people are the ones who do the farming not the server as a whole.

So I have zero fear of being farmed… instead I would relish the opportunity to go guild on guild in WvW… as would most of the other organised guilds…. and it does not matter if we win or lose… what matters is that we are having fun. I could easily bare a week of losing all the time, as long as I was having some good fights. I know that the following week I will be back down a tier where we obviously proved we are capable to regain our confidence.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

Vena… I disagree… sure some servers will go up a tier and be out of their depth for a week… so what? They will drop back down the following week.

The servers will just yo-yo. The match up would be identically stale and several teams would be stuck permanently (specifically at the top and bottom) and the middle server of each tier would be trapped unable to ever move. There really is no magical algorithm to be set up.

In NA, with respect to your other points, the gaps between tiers are pretty apparent and steep especially the jump from T2 to T1.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

So I have zero fear of being farmed… instead I would relish the opportunity to go guild on guild in WvW… as would most of the other organised guilds…. and it does not matter if we win or lose… what matters is that we are having fun. I could easily bare a week of losing all the time, as long as I was having some good fights. I know that the following week I will be back down a tier where we obviously proved we are capable to regain our confidence.

This would be better to just ask for GvG separate map.

What the….I don’t even…

What if I like the current rating system?

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

Do you also plan on fixing arrow carts once and for all as well as making WvW more rewarding/lowering the costs to upgrade?

Hickeroar.9734:

What the….I don’t even…

What if I like the current rating system?

No choice most likely. It will be like the trap thing. “Hey guys we did this for you! Cool huh!” …. “UH….why?!?”

That being said, the rating system needs some work. Servers should have a chance to move up a tier or down a tier more often.

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

Last time Anet speak about “something big” in WvW, it was for the “awesome” WvW patch … and we all see there was nothing…

Hope this time we will not disappointed… ofc if “big” is only for a new formula..

I still hope that one day I’ll see a response from the Devs that’s a simple: "Yes." or "No."

Well, that would answer the OP’s question, while amusing me greatly. Oh, there’s that 15 character thing. Ok, "In response to your question, yes/no."

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

If you are going down the route I believe you are going then this will yet again be another problem in WvW pool of problems.

Wothan.4673:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

Last time Anet speak about “something big” in WvW, it was for the “awesome” WvW patch … and we all see there was nothing…

Hope this time we will not disappointed… ofc if “big” is only for a new formula..

They fixed culling. They could have stopped WvW improvements right there and I’d have been happy.

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

will this be all we will ever hear from u,

1. you will see soon
2. we are working on this
3. we are aware of that
4.we know it already
5.just wait and u you will see in the next patch

i am surprised how people still fall for this anymore

News flash – we didn’t like the past “surprises”(AC disaster, Traps nonsense) you served us(ok, most of us)… Maybe you should actually announce your plans more often and Listen to your playerbase’s feedback/concerns about them.

WyldKat.4712:

I still hope that one day I’ll see a response from the Devs that’s a simple: “Yes.” or “No.”

Well, that would answer the OP’s question, while amusing me greatly. Oh, there’s that 15 character thing. Ok, “In response to your question, yes/no.”

Sounded like a yes to me, even if a bit wordy.

You all know they have ndas right for things like this

OMG the same people who cried bloody murder about the arrowcarts are already gearing up to throw a temper tantrum about matchmaking changes.

But at least this time they cannot claim that it was not asked for. There are many threads complaining about the matchmaking and ranking system.

Anything that can be done to increase the variety in match-ups would be a good thing. The tiers have become too stagnant. In tier 2, who says DB or TC couldn’t compete with the tier 1 servers? The same story is true across maybe tiers.

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

WEEKS?

Seriously?

Why don’t you guys stop working on traps and ridiculous arrowcarts and make something happen soon.

Or maybe I should ask you not to do it, because lately the updates have not made the game better, at all.

wha?

the battle of nomnomnom?

why I otta

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Credibility is zero. My guess is that we get more and more powerful siege, because that is all that seems to change with WvW.

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

After last AC buff and traps+trolling thieves…. Please, no more suprises

I don’t think this solution will freshen up matches much, if at all. What it does is two things:

1. Makes the system actually “fair” in that stuff is actually worth an amount of points somewhat based on the difficulty of doing it.

2. Melts into the score some actual statistics on population..not population compared to the other two servers…. meaning the current ranking system gets slightly better at matchmaking.

Solving the problem with stale matchups is the next step, and would be slightly more controversial. It basically, IMO, requires a score handicapping system of some sort… and/or a serious push by ArenaNet to equalize the server populations. (Free transfers to lower pop servers, or other incentives)

Aneu.1748:

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

This.

Please consult with the people that actually play WvW about any changes before you implement them.

There are only so many pros and cons you can draw up inside a board room even if you guys are very smart and very capable.

No more surprises, no more random additions to WvW we don’t need or want.
Keep it simple, stick to your guns, stick to the basics.

Fix AC’s, Fix Skill Lag, Fix class disparity (as much as possible), Add ascended, and then you can add random stuff again!

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Credibility is zero. My guess is that we get more and more powerful siege, because that is all that seems to change with WvW.

Your credibility is zero.

I don’t see why they can’t share a draft of their new ranking methods here so the community can give some thoughts on it…

Gumin don’t understand what nda’s are

DevonCarver.5370

If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Considering the direction you all went with changes to A/C and Thieves, if we are pleased, I’ll be as surprised as Admiral Zinovy Rozhestvensky at the Battle of Tsushima Straits.

Johje Holan.4607:

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Credibility is zero. My guess is that we get more and more powerful siege, because that is all that seems to change with WvW.

Your credibility is zero.

Uh oh, e-thug in the house!

fishball.7204:

Aneu.1748:

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

This.

Please consult with the people that actually play WvW about any changes before you implement them.

There are only so many pros and cons you can draw up inside a board room even if you guys are very smart and very capable.

There’s no way they can consult with us. We don’t agreee on anything.

For every suggestion, there’s someone who hates it. For every complaint, there’s someone who disagrees. For every change, there’s people who asked for it and people who threaten to quit over it.

Aneu.1748:

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

I must admit don’t think this has a sense, whatever you propose on the forum you get some supporting it and several flaming it. And ranking was discussed a lot by players during the last 3 month. Everyone with an opinion should have found more than one opportunity to say something about it. How much of that ANet used, we will see …

Johje Holan.4607:

fishball.7204:

Aneu.1748:

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

This.

Please consult with the people that actually play WvW about any changes before you implement them.

There are only so many pros and cons you can draw up inside a board room even if you guys are very smart and very capable.

There’s no way they can consult with us. We don’t agreee on anything.

For every suggestion, there’s someone who hates it. For every complaint, there’s someone who disagrees. For every change, there’s people who asked for it and people who threaten to quit over it.

There is a very interesting tool that is used by many marketeers and business men that involve sampling – Its quite frequently used and is even used in some supermarkets you probably frequent yourself. Just because some people don’t agree doesn’t mean a conclusion cannot be drawn from it and on top of this it doesnt mean that a sensible debate cannot take place regarding the “top down” look at the overall picture as opposed to the very fine details (which should be left to behind closed doors in most cases).

Aeonblade.8709:

Johje Holan.4607:

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Credibility is zero. My guess is that we get more and more powerful siege, because that is all that seems to change with WvW.

Your credibility is zero.

Uh oh, e-thug in the house!

Wow, I’ve never been called an e-thug before.

I’m just sick and tired of people coming on these forums saying things like that. Or threatening to quit if they don’t get there way. Or saying the devs don’t care.

Yeah right. They don’t care. They’ve worked for years (many years) creating a game because they don’t care.

If you disagree with something the devs do fine. But don’t be a jerk about it.

Dayra.7405:

Aneu.1748:

Maybe you should get a discussion going on these very forums regarding the changes you are going to implement soon rather than bull-rush it out without anyone the wiser, especially on the change that seems to be coming to the ranking system, its quite drastic.

I must admit don’t think this has a sense, whatever you propose on the forum you get some supporting it and several flaming it. And ranking was discussed a lot by players during the last 3 month. Everyone with an opinion should have found more than one opportunity to say something about it. How much of that ANet used, we will see …

With the recent spiral of WvW, the changes to AC and the inclusion of traps currently (that are quite easy to exploit) do you really think more of this back office discussion is a good idea for world vs world or do you think Arenanet should actually open up a little so us, the players, can tear apart their idea before they introduce more problems that they didn’t foresee?

Its quite likely that the change incoming will give winning the match-up even less meaning than it currently has (and it currently has so very little).

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

And as we all know, they wouldn’t have been caught surprised had they carried Vuvuzelas…

Johje Holan.4607:

Aeonblade.8709:

Johje Holan.4607:

Niim.9260:

DevonCarver.5370:

Scootus.3251:

DevonCarver.5370:

I don’t want to completely ruin the surprise but you should hear something big from us in the coming weeks about this very topic.

You forgot to tell them to ask again next month to hear an even more obscure answer.

D’oh! You caught me there. Let me spruce it up some. In the coming weeks, nay months, you’ll see many changes to WvW. We should have something to announce regarding the matchmaking in the coming weeks. If you aren’t happy with those changes, I’ll be more surprised than the Imperial Japanese Army was by Marshal Georgy Zhukov at the battle of Nomonhan. I think that fits the criteria. Sort of.

Credibility is zero. My guess is that we get more and more powerful siege, because that is all that seems to change with WvW.

Your credibility is zero.

Uh oh, e-thug in the house!

Wow, I’ve never been called an e-thug before.

I’m just sick and tired of people coming on these forums saying things like that. Or threatening to quit if they don’t get there way. Or saying the devs don’t care.

Yeah right. They don’t care. They’ve worked for years (many years) creating a game because they don’t care.

If you disagree with something the devs do fine. But don’t be a jerk about it.

Fair enough. In all honesty I just wanted to use the phrase e-thug, you really were quite polite considering what you could have said :P

Sigmatics.7056:

I don’t see why they can’t share a draft of their new ranking methods here so the community can give some thoughts on it…

Because there will be a vocal group who would destroy it with walls of text that mean next to nothing beyond their own opinion.

Aneu.1748:

With the recent spiral of WvW, the changes to AC and the inclusion of traps currently (that are quite easy to exploit) do you really think more of this back office discussion is a good idea for world vs world or do you think Arenanet should actually open up a little so us, the players, can tear apart their idea before they introduce more problems that they didn’t foresee?

A test server/match where the players can test things for a week before they are distributed to all worlds, yes, I would see much sense in this. ANet can find out if things develop as expected, before everyone get’s confronted with the change.

A pre-discussion without tests, look at all the reactions of pre-anouncements and you know the answer …

Dayra.7405:

Aneu.1748:

With the recent spiral of WvW, the changes to AC and the inclusion of traps currently (that are quite easy to exploit) do you really think more of this back office discussion is a good idea for world vs world or do you think Arenanet should actually open up a little so us, the players, can tear apart their idea before they introduce more problems that they didn’t foresee?

A test server/match where the players can test things for a week before they are distributed to all worlds, yes, I would see much sense in this. ANet can find out if things develop as expected, before everyone get’s confronted with the change.

A pre-discussion without tests, look at all the reactions of pre-anouncements and you know the answer …

Unfortunately you cannot have test servers that re-enact what happens in WvW (legitimately) and the only way to test it is to introduce it to the live servers so I can see why some of the content put out isnt fully tested but even without testing the changes are quite obviously OTT or just counter-intuitive for what the core of WvW is (people fighting one another!).