Guild Wars 2

Disclaimer: I play WvW every day because I like the challenge of killing people as PvE is no longer a challenge for me since about 500h of play time. Dungeons are easy, FOTM is easy, etc. WvW is still difficult.

At the moment, there is absolutely no reason for players to play WvW aside from acquiring 500 badges for the gift of battle. Let me elaborate:

1) You’ll die the most often out of any other game mode (dungeons, fotm, dynamic events) – repair costs are the highest in the game.

Oh wait, you’re a pro and you never die in WvW, RIGHT! That’s because you don’t push with your Commander and generally don’t listen, but you’re there to stand in the circle to cap a tower or keep! Yes yes, you know who you are. The truth is, you are MEANT to die WvW, simply because you cannot always win against other players, if you are, it means your WvW matchup is not balanced and not fun. Dying is part of the fun and is necessary. This issue creates a lot of “fair-weather” WvW players that leave a map once you start losing which causes frustration to the people who stay.

2) The rewards of killing players are much lesser than farming in Orr or doing Fractals.

Sure people have gotten lucky and have gotten precursors from players, but I’ll venture that your odds are better in PvE. Devs, feel free to prove me wrong. I’d love to hear that. As for gold/h, if you really think that WvW is worthwhile… Well you’re wrong. I do always come ahead, but with food that costs 5s /30min *2, in a full day of WvW where I’d get ~500-600 kills, I’ll make maybe 1-2g. I can make that in less than an hour doing a fractal run.

3) The rewards of capturing objectives are much lesser than dynamic events in PvE.

Example: I get more karma/xp/loot for killing Claw Of Jormag by barely doing anything aside from auto attacking the mob and rallying other players than fighting for several hours to capture a keep in WvW.

Now don’t get me wrong. Killing other people is fun. Fighting with your server is fun. It creates a feeling of belonging and patriotism towards your server, that’s good! But WvW is seriously lacking in rewards and incentive. WvW was supposed to be the utlimate end-game, and it does a very poor job at it. The only people who seem to be constantly doing WvW are those who seem to:

a) not care about better or cooler gear
b) already have everything they want

4) Doing the necessary things for your server are REWARDLESS. Patrolling your BL is completely rewardless. Refreshing siege every 30min is rewardless. Trebbing Durios for your server is rewardless. Defending an objective outnumbered 2-3 to 1 is very underwhelminly rewarding.

Many other things in WvW are broken/not optimal, but these in my opinion would bring a lot of new players to WvW and make a much more fun experience.

TL;DR I SHOULDN’T HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN FUN (WvW) AND WORTHWHILE REWARDS (PvE)

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

If all you want is rewards, go farm CoF path 1 all day. If you don’t find having fun in WvW worthwhile then please go do something else.

Blix.8021:

If all you want is rewards, go farm CoF path 1 all day. If you don’t find having fun in WvW worthwhile then please go do something else.

Did you read the TL;DR?

Well said! I agree with you Lord Vrael wholeheartedly. I play in Tier 8 and it is really apparent that WvW is broken there. I play on the SF server that is dominating, but when there is no competition it is hard to find the funds to upgrade towers etc if they are taken during the night. Something should be done to make WvW more in line with the rest of the end game rewards.

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

It’s not going to solve all my points.

Number 4 is the most damaging, in my opinion. There’s no incentive to do the “boring stuff”

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

TNoD.8143:

Blix.8021:

If all you want is rewards, go farm CoF path 1 all day. If you don’t find having fun in WvW worthwhile then please go do something else.

Did you read the TL;DR?

I did but I don’t care. This thread is old and tired and there have been tons of them since release.

frankylovechild.8623:

Well said! I agree with you Lord Vrael wholeheartedly. I play in Tier 8 and it is really apparent that WvW is broken there. I play on the SF server that is dominating, but when there is no competition it is hard to find the funds to upgrade towers etc if they are taken during the night. Something should be done to make WvW more in line with the rest of the end game rewards.

You’re right, I didn’t even talk about the issue of upgrading costing several g. In BP, there really isn’t any issue with this as most of our commanders are either filthy rich and/or have large guilds that have shared funds for this. I do my fair share for the southern towers but I never had to upgrade a keep and always find them upgrading/upgraded.

I’d say the issue is that players don’t stick around to escort yaks after retaking towers. (see problem #4, no incentive to do the boring stuff)

Thor.1756:

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

I don’t think people want rewards so much as they want to compete / fight on an even playing field. I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards they may get and only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

nekos.2584:

Thor.1756:

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

I don’t think people want rewards so much as they want to compete / fight on an even playing field. I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards they may get and only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

I don’t quite understand you. You say they don’t want rewards, but they want rewards to be equally geared?

You can level and gear a character from 0-80 in full exotic gear in <2 weeks in this game, assuming you’re not power levelling with crafting. This seems unparralledly easy to me.

They only thing that can take “countless hours” would be ascended gear (which i assert is unnecessary but thats a whole nother can o wurms), but you can get those from dailies now (which takes ~20min a day, often earned easily in wvw), and Anet has indicated will eventually be able to be earned from wvw.

nekos.2584:

Thor.1756:

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

I don’t think people want rewards so much as they want to compete / fight on an even playing field. I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards they may get and only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

I think WvW is unbalanced, but in a balanced way. Anyone can roll and level any class in a relatively acceptable amount of time. There are no classes that are useless in WvW. Even ranger is great for AoE that can reach AC in towers/keeps.

Sure, some classes rule roaming/1v1, but overall all classes/builds can be useful at one thing or the other.

I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards

That’s the issue, in the lower population servers, night shifts are extremely sparse and prone to night-caps. The issue is, if PvE is more appealing (reward-wise) than WvW, how will you interest the rest of the server in it? How is it that it’s EASIER to obtain the commander tag in PvE than WvW? That’s just one simple example of the point I’m trying to illustrate. I agree that this has been brought up numerous times, but it’s still relevant.

nekos.2584:

only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

But wasting countless hours in PvE incentivizes players to purchase gems from the BLTC.

Thor.1756:

You can level and gear a character from 0-80 in full exotic gear in <2 weeks in this game, assuming you’re not power levelling with crafting. This seems unparralledly easy to me.

You can only get a few stat spreads via crafting.

In addition, that’s a kittenton of $ grinding. Full set of exotics is somewhere around 45 gold.

Have fun getting a Rabid light armor chest. That alone was around 18g on the trader the other day.

Also: ascended items give 8-30% higher stats than exotics. So yeah, they are/will be mandatory when more slots are available.

I lost count how many times that once we lost a keep, we also becomes outmanned right away.

Lost a keep=>PUGs rage quit=>outmanned.

Anet got to find a way to keep the PUGs, losers, underdogs playing.

EasymodeX.4062:

Have fun getting a Rabid light armor chest. That alone was around 18g on the trader the other day.

Rabid stats can start being earned at lvl 55 by farming TA. I stand by my claim that you can get full rabid gear, while levelling 0-80, in under two weeks through a combination of TA farm and Karma Orr gear.

EasymodeX.4062:

Also: ascended items give 8-30% higher stats than exotics. So yeah, they are/will be mandatory when more slots are available.

Like I said, a can o wurms I’d rather not discuss. I don’t like that ascended gear even exists but Anet has to appease the pve scrubs whining about gear progression somehow.

The good news is you can earn it by spending less than 20mins a day completing dailies/monthlies, and Anet has indicated it will be acquirable through wvw eventually.

I agree with pretty much everything OP said.
I’d like to add in the fact that the Outmanned buff is complete BS.
“Hey, you’re getting destroyed right now, how ’bout some more karma?”

Elrond.9486:

I agree with pretty much everything OP said.
I’d like to add in the fact that the Outmanned buff is complete BS.
“Hey, you’re getting destroyed right now, how ’bout some more karma?”

Its more like:

“Hey we know that you got NO chance of winning right now. So to encourage you we will buff your rewards when you DO win.”

>_>

Thor.1756:

Rabid stats can start being earned at lvl 55 by farming TA. I stand by my claim that you can get full rabid gear, while levelling 0-80, in under two weeks through a combination of TA farm and Karma Orr gear.

OhgodthePvEdungeongrind.

This is long overdue. I hope this gets addressed in the March update because dear God, WvW rewards are so bad, especially when you factor in how much it costs to upgrade locations and buy siege.

nekos.2584:

Thor.1756:

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

I don’t think people want rewards so much as they want to compete / fight on an even playing field. I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards they may get and only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

As someone who only plays WvW, any reward would be appreciated. Else I would never EVER finish my legendary.

Thor.1756:

nekos.2584:

Thor.1756:

style.6173:

Maybe look at the plans for WvW in March.

Yeah, this.

I’d also point out that Anet went ~5 years into gw1 without really providing any benefits whatsoever for gvg except kitten size. So, frankly, I’m glad to get any sort of rewards.

I don’t think people want rewards so much as they want to compete / fight on an even playing field. I would wager large sums of money that the over whelming majority of people playing WvW could care less about any rewards they may get and only ask for the " rewards " so they can be equally geared with every one else and not have to waste countless hours in PvE.

I don’t quite understand you. You say they don’t want rewards, but they want rewards to be equally geared?

You can level and gear a character from 0-80 in full exotic gear in <2 weeks in this game, assuming you’re not power levelling with crafting. This seems unparralledly easy to me.

They only thing that can take “countless hours” would be ascended gear (which i assert is unnecessary but thats a whole nother can o wurms), but you can get those from dailies now (which takes ~20min a day, often earned easily in wvw), and Anet has indicated will eventually be able to be earned from wvw.

What i meant was that the main reason a lot of people want rewards in WvW is so they can have the gear they need to compete with out having to play the PvE side of the game. I hate the PvE in this game. The story mode is kinda OK the first time threw but after that i wanted nothing to do with it. Sadly I’m forced to play PvE instead of playing the part of the game i do like just to gear up. It’s an old outdated way to do things and another step backwards this game took.

Thor.1756:

1) Rabid stats can start being earned at lvl 55 by farming TA. I stand by my claim that you can get full rabid gear, while levelling 0-80, in under two weeks through a combination of TA farm and Karma Orr gear.

2) Like I said, a can o wurms I’d rather not discuss. I don’t like that ascended gear even exists but Anet has to appease the pve scrubs whining about gear progression somehow.

The good news is you can earn it by spending less than 20mins a day completing dailies/monthlies, and Anet has indicated it will be acquirable through wvw eventually.

1) So you’re saying WvW players who have no real interest in PvE should force themselves to do PvE for 2 weeks to get geared to be competitive because they cannot do that in WvW? …

2) While I agree ascended gear shouldn’t be an issue for the most part, you said “Anet has indicated it will be acquirable through wvw eventually.” which sends chills down my spine because that is one of the main reasons a lot of people I know quit. They’re sick and tired of WvW being so counter productive. In what was considered end game has turned out to be unrewarding.

Eventually, eventually, eventually ……….

Cloud.7613:

1) So you’re saying WvW players who have no real interest in PvE should force themselves to do PvE for 2 weeks to get geared to be competitive because they cannot do that in WvW? …

They actually can get exotic gear from wvw with karma orr gear and/or turning in badges. It just takes longer.

Point was that it did not take “endless hours” in pve, only two weeks, and that includes levelling 0-80, which you could do in wvw, just takes longer. Compared to other games, this seems to be a laughably low amount of effort on your part.

Thor.1756:

Cloud.7613:

1) So you’re saying WvW players who have no real interest in PvE should force themselves to do PvE for 2 weeks to get geared to be competitive because they cannot do that in WvW? …

They actually can get exotic gear from wvw with karma orr gear and/or turning in badges. It just takes longer.

Point was that it did not take “endless hours” in pve, only two weeks, and that includes levelling 0-80, which you could do in wvw, just takes longer. Compared to other games, this seems to be a laughably low amount of effort on your part.

You can but it’s quicker and easier to gear up in PvE.

Thor.1756:

Cloud.7613:

1) So you’re saying WvW players who have no real interest in PvE should force themselves to do PvE for 2 weeks to get geared to be competitive because they cannot do that in WvW? …

They actually can get exotic gear from wvw with karma orr gear and/or turning in badges. It just takes longer.

Point was that it did not take “endless hours” in pve, only two weeks, and that includes levelling 0-80, which you could do in wvw, just takes longer. Compared to other games, this seems to be a laughably low amount of effort on your part.

Speaking of laughably low amount of effort, next time read the OP before commenting.

And you can only get Pvt in WvW.

QQ.

The other day I wanted to switch from a building using Berserker’s Exotics to Rabid.

I dumped some karma on a few item slots, then looked at the kittentyPvE badge cost for the chest, then the price of the chest on the AH.

Then I logged off and played some LoL.

Because I can actually play the kittening game when I log in, unlike GW2.

TNoD.8143:

(…) simply because you cannot always win against other players (…)

Hi, I’m a Thief.

Cloud.7613:

Thor.1756:

Cloud.7613:

1) So you’re saying WvW players who have no real interest in PvE should force themselves to do PvE for 2 weeks to get geared to be competitive because they cannot do that in WvW? …

They actually can get exotic gear from wvw with karma orr gear and/or turning in badges. It just takes longer.

Point was that it did not take “endless hours” in pve, only two weeks, and that includes levelling 0-80, which you could do in wvw, just takes longer. Compared to other games, this seems to be a laughably low amount of effort on your part.

Speaking of laughably low amount of effort, next time read the OP before commenting.

speaking of laughably low amount of effort, next time read the previous statements I had been responding to, so you’d realize I was not responding to OP.

My original response to OP was, in effect, “some better rewards are allegedly coming, but Anet has a bad track record of providing such rewards [see: gw1 gvg rewards], so I’m happy to have what little they do give.”

Thor.1756:

They actually can get exotic gear from wvw with karma orr gear and/or turning in badges. It just takes longer.

But not with the optimum stats.

I second this. Give me comparable WvW rewards and I’ll come and play. Otherwise I’m there just for JP badges and map completion.

EasymodeX.4062:

And you can only get Pvt in WvW.

QQ.

Don’t the Orr karma merchants sell Pvt gear too?

Heru.5427:

EasymodeX.4062:

And you can only get Pvt in WvW.

QQ.

Don’t the Orr karma merchants sell Pvt gear too?

5 pieces or if you want rabid only 4 pieces.

Completely agree with OP. It’s really annoying having to farm the same dungeons over and over for anything other than boring P/V/T gear when all I want to be doing is WvW.

WvW is dynamic and exiting, dungeons are boring once you’ve done them a few times. FotM is a promising concept (gradually increasing difficulty and mechanics), but not fully realized and even then it won’t be remotely as fun as WvW.

Until ANet implements OP’s suggestions, they’ll never fully live up to their mantra that players should be able to play the game however we want.

Yes, WvW is certainly the only place in the game where your wealth actually diminishes while playing.

Once again it’s the broken reward system set up by the game developers. Whom deem Dungeons and Jumping puzzles as the most important part of the game. And, everyone MUST do them for some freaking reason. And yes, they are a MUST if you wish to play WvW because you will literally go bankrupt if you WvW only.

If Armor repair and siege was for Karma, then WvW would work much better.

Some unique sets of armour skins that can only be attained through WvW would be a cool reward and a goal to work for. And not just to buy with badges, so people will actually participate in WvW instead of farming jps.

Zolihan.8674:

Some unique sets of armour skins that can only be attained through WvW would be a cool reward and a goal to work for. And not just to buy with badges, so people will actually participate in WvW instead of farming jps.

Unfortunately that wouldn’t solve the dual problem DeWolfe and I are talking about:

1. WvW depletes your currency, unlike everything in PvE. Hence you have to PvE to restock your currency so you can afford repairs, gear, food/pots, siege, etc. needed to play the game. Adding more skins would have no effect.

2. There’s only one stat set of armor available in WvW. Adding more skins wouldn’t solve the real problem of needing more types of armor – Berserker, Knight, Cleric, Rabid, etc. Since WvW depletes your currency, you can’t reliably do WvW and save up enough gold to buy the mats to craft gear either.

Either way, to get stuff you need for WvW you have spend time farming dungeons and other PvE stuff, the only reliable way to acquire resources in the game.

Having said that, WvW loot drops were increased in the latest patch, so that might mitigate #1 at least. Too early to tell how much though.