Guild Wars 2

My suggestion is simple : we need to have a way to make the amount of kills we make in wvw matter. Its sad to see a system that is mostly rewarding for PvD servers more than for servers are are actually up to put up some fights.

An easy solution to that would be to implement a counter and make 1kill correspond to 0.1pt. Each kills made by players from a server would be added to each others during a match up, the total amount of those kills would then be added to the amount of points each server have at the end of a 1 week war period. The winner would then ofc be the server who managed to capitalize most points AFTER the kills addition.
(Nb of kills . 0.1)+Pts = final score

-Rewarding for servers who fight
-Motivate more players to actually go in the open field and meet their oponents
-Encourage the players to group up in organised guilds to optimize their field skills
-Nerf the impact of mindless PvD.

I m very very sure that most of the wvw community would welcome this change with a lot of enthousiasm.

There was never a war where the amount of death didn’t matter.

Great idea! (random stuff added to get 15 chars)

assuming it would be in balance (so that killing would not be more meaningfull than controlling points, which as it self would alter the whole wvwvw ideology at the moment) it could accomplish 2 things…

For one it could provoke kill hunting and big matches which imo would be great but I am afraid that it would provoke massive blobbing to be only thing people would do – in order to avoid someone farming on your kills or that you would end up in situation of only massive armies roaming, camping even more in towers and so on – it would make zergs blame any smaller groups for not joining the zerg with claim that they give points away, they would make people extra carefull not to attack any fortified keeps and so on…

So I do understand the concern and I would like also for kills to be meaningfull in some way but adding any bigger meaning for them would provoke camping in towers and huge blobs.
I believe this was the similar case that they had with those orbs if you were playing at time when those were in WvWvW still – they were nice thing to do but gettting them usually meant that dominating servers became even stronger thus making it easier for strong to farm the weak.

As a simpliest form I would say it could be just ego – boost – lets say flags at each servers starting WP where they would show kill ratios as a relationship of each other, so long flagpole and if your flag is on the top it would show that your kill/death ratio of the server is very very good – perhaps add some table of honor similar to sPVP has in mists about tournament winners. That would already make little boasting possible.

Then perhaps try out how it affects on amount of overall kills in wvwvw if you add some extra score about e.g. best kills/deaths ratio so that first one gets +100 every 15 minutes, 2nd +50 and 3rd +25 – if there is a dramatic drop in kills then it could be called off just.

Anyways, good idea, love it, just afraid that it would make small groups blamed, people afraid of bashing their heads against towers until they are capped (only attacking when no def) and so on…

I think it would just enhance the difference between those that play for points and those that play for fights. Those who play for points will have even more reason to run away and hide. Resulting in even less fun for those looking for a good fight. Also, it won’t gain much as you’d need 100k kills to get 10k points, which is easy to get without any effort when just PvDooring. Which is another crooked thing, the less effort required on the field, the easier it is to rack up points, and points for kills won’t change that.

Not to mention possible abuse by server zergs farming eachother just to generate more points. The bags each side would get would cover the repair costs anyway when numbers are great enough.
Believe me, it would happen.

It does sound appealing though, but as with many things, reality would blow up in the face.

My idea was orginally, that yes, kills should matter in the overall final point calculation. And that this way, capturing empty towers would be less rewarding point wise as it wouldbe to capture it while fully defended by an ennemy group. Yes ofc, some Guilds would hunt each others looking mainly for kill points (and bags) but this is already the case, and it s the funniest and most addictive part of wvw imo.
I m not so sure that it would be such a big deal for small groups as anyway with a coeff of 0.1n 1 or 2 more deaths won’t matter that much, the biggest factor would be group wipes when 30+ players fights another 30+ players wich would correspond to an amount of 300-500 kills for the winners (extra 30 – 50 points). It would definitly be a reason to NOT stay hidden, in my opinion ofc.
But yes, i really don’t see why a system based on a 3 way war shouldn’t reward the servers of those who make kills, who are actually playing to fight. I m not saying my suggestion is the absolute answer but it would be soooo nice to stop playing with a system who is only rewarding the 24/24 map coverage and PVD while hiding in keeps during prime time. ;p

Not sure on its impact on the meta, still I would like some things (like kills, healing/support/repairs) to be more meaningful in WvW, too.

…but, I would be even happy to have some sort of guild-based and player-based weekly ranking (Top10-20 Guilds and Top 100 Players) showing things like:
- supply used
- kills done
- Rezzes performed
…and else

…wouldnt even need any rewards attached to things like these.

Be it a shooter or a really intrigate strategy game…reading/haveing match statistics has always been – at least for me- a very important part of the game.

A simple Arcade game can get away with a simple Highscore…
The more complex the game gets, the more complex match statistics are needed to hold any meaning…

People would just start running around for kills than capturing the objectives i’d say (even if the kills doesn’t really represent a high portion of the score).

It’s like if Blizzard even let the kills in Warsong Gulch count for somenthing… No one would ever go get the flag.

As long kills are meaningless, it will force the server to do the actual game.

this won’t work with GW2 pvp “score” system

2(0.2pt) v 1(0.2pt)

Kills should influence the scoreboard in some fashion. For the most part, who wins each weak is determined by who has the best around the clock coverage instead of the team that plays the best. This is the only real way to balance things out.

Jeknar.6184:

People would just start running around for kills than capturing the objectives i’d say (even if the kills doesn’t really represent a high portion of the score).

As opposed to dodging fighting the enemy, not leaving keeps, or taking undefended towers and keeps off peak hours? The current state of the game doesn’t reward playing well, it rewards population and coverage. That has to change.

Its funny because I was about to make a thread just about this.

This must become a part of WvW scoring, to avoid exploiting, you just need to implement it like this:
When a player is killed by a oposing realm, (no fall damage or pve dead), the oposing realm is awarded 1 point;
When a player is killed by a oposing realm a hiden debuff kicks in for 10, or 15 mins preventing future deads from awarding any points;
Changing map, or leaving wPvP doesnt remove the hiden debuff;
If a player is tagged by 30 other oposing realm players, and dies, he still only gives 1 point.

This would award a maximum of 90/80 (depending of map cap) possible points, per 10, 15 min cicle, but in reality even in a very busy hour the points from objectives would always be potentially higher.

So why should this be implemented? It would give a new purpose to wPvP, not only smaller responsible groups would be rewarded for their playstile, servers that stay in keeps defending them, not changing kills with oponent would soon start losing great amounts of potential points, for example:

In a borderland map contested by 3 realms that are equal in strength, Realm A has garrison and north towers, realm B has hills and tower, realm C has Bay and tower, in this scenario, realm A and B have been fighting in a deadlock for 2 hours from garrison to hills, awarding Realm A 400 points (50 kills per 15 min) points, from kills, and realm B 320 points (40 kills per 15 min), during this time realm C spent more time in its zone upgrading the keep and preparing future atacks on realm A and B, or simply doesnt want to risk atacking enemy objectives, in this case they get a total of 100 points for (100 kills in 2 hours), because they could only be part of smaller skirmishes and never won, or tried to win a fight in enemy realm side.

Why would this be good? It would eventually discourage leming behaviour of zergs, a zerg ball that constantly dies, and reses itself for no reason would be punishing its server, on top of that a server that doesnt engage in responsible fights, or that simply avoids them would be losing a great chunk of possible points, so it both discourages mindless zerging, and shy play, no risk, no reward.

There is a final tweak that could be made to this system:

Extra points for killing players in objectives, for example 2 for defensive kills and 3 for offensive, why the diference? to encourage atacks on heavly defended objectives, anyone that has played wPvP knows how hard it is to fight under siege fire against equal numbers, to prevent a server from holling up and farm kills in theire upgraded keep and actually go for a try on enemy keeps, then why give extra points for defense?
The extra points for defense is there to force people to try and defend the keep instead of just abandoning it for fearing of losing it anyway and giving the enemy extra points for kills.

All this would hopefully encourage more active play in wPvP and give the game mode a more interesting flavor.

not a good idea, VS will completely stop coming out of their towers.

covenn.7165:

Jeknar.6184:

People would just start running around for kills than capturing the objectives i’d say (even if the kills doesn’t really represent a high portion of the score).

As opposed to dodging fighting the enemy, not leaving keeps, or taking undefended towers and keeps off peak hours? The current state of the game doesn’t reward playing well, it rewards population and coverage. That has to change.

If it wasn’t suposed to be a Coverage game i doubt it would be a week-long matchup…

Jeknar.6184:

If it wasn’t suposed to be a Coverage game i doubt it would be a week-long matchup…

So you think ANET designed this entire game around who has more people online 24-7? Why even bother W3 zones then and just make the PPT revolve around current population totals?

I believe that making kills count towards the final score would reward coverage and population just as much as the current system does. In fact I think it would discourage people from even attempting to play and defend whatever they can during their server’s off hours.

Adding a kill count mechanic to the game would create a new sort of meta game calculus. If an attacking or defending force feels that they are likely to incur more point loss through deaths than they might potentially gain for either capturing or defending an objective then they are likely to abandon their attempt altogether and just let the superior (in terms of numbers not necessarily overall skill) force win uncontested.

Moreover, the most effective way to accumulate kills while avoiding deaths in this game (and any game really) is to zerg with as many people as possible.

I understand why some people might be interested in this sort of thing but I personally think it would make the game worse. Therefore I hope the developers never implement such a mechanic into the game.

I don’t know about them adding to the final score but we’ll be rewarded more for getting kills in the new system they’re adding in the coming WvW update I think.

Absolutely agree with the op.

Something to reflect on the scoreboard for the pvp part of a pvp gametype (who’d a thunk it). It doesn’t even have to be a huge score tick either…which it seems would help to allay the fears of some here who think pvp kills in a pvp game type should not reflect on the score and final outcome of the game.

We already have a system where solo players/small groups can impact the scoreboard by ganking yaks. So why not a small score for you know…pvp.

Zen Later.6475:

Absolutely agree with the op.

Something to reflect on the scoreboard for the pvp part of a pvp gametype (who’d a thunk it). It doesn’t even have to be a huge score tick either…which it seems would help to allay the fears of some here who think pvp kills in a pvp game type should not reflect on the score and final outcome of the game.

We already have a system where solo players/small groups can impact the scoreboard by ganking yaks. So why not a small score for you know…pvp.

The ‘v’ stands for versus, versus != killing, taking objectives is PvP, it is players competitng against players (of course if your team fails to bother to defend objectives or dollys, then makes it easy, but nevertheless still PvP).

But anyway back to the OP, yes it might be nice to add some point contribution for kills, kills contribute points in sPvP why not WvW.

charas.8321:

-Motivate more players to actually go in the open field and meet their oponents

Maybe that change will motivate players to actually NOT go in the open field.

The main problem of the current system is that it wont work ever on an european time zone which we all have very similar play frame time.

For me the better solution its to make a relationship between the points given per tick and the players actually playing in the borerlands, so less players mean less points to share between the three servers, put a soft cap and work from there.

Anyway, look at the WvW patchs we are getting and how fast we are getting them… a big change on how the WvW system works wont happen anytime soon.

salluks.6017:

not a good idea, VS will completely stop coming out of their towers.

Agreed……this will make them go Big blob or siege from tower/keeps.

Like it was suggested somewhere on GW2 forums….make a buff for groups below 25+ ……..and handicap from 50+ ……..stats buff or debuff ……boom fixed……my 2 cents.

PS: with above statement it wouldbe possible to make kills count.

/Salute

you will see people saying “underlevelled squishies stay away from wvw”, and btw if kill counts towards score, we will see more people playing professions that kills alot but barely dies.

WakkaJabba.3910:

you will see people saying “underlevelled squishies stay away from wvw”, and btw if kill counts towards score, we will see more people playing professions that kills alot but barely dies.

Thiefs culling abusers and mesmers…

This change would induce a lack of alt’s in WvW, because you would get owned quickly and make a problem for your server in doing so.

- No playing/levelling your alt’s in WvW
- A lot of rage and qq if a new commander or even a established commander has an off day or every time the group wiped, especially among some of the servers with a less than friendly attitude
- It would scare enemies into staying within their towers, and it would be a lot worse every time you die, as you would feel the impact that much more
- Controlling points would matter less, as the amount of kills on a Server within a full week is going to be a helluva lot, even if you divide it by 10…
- Jump Puzzles; set off fire trap, jump down and tag the downed player = points – the tagging system doesn’t work to this change’s advantage, every enemy you tag is counted as partly your kill, when he dies, in groups people would just target as many as possible, tower defending action would be insane due to the 50 target cap on Arrow Carts, Riverside for example, would get so so so many kills from their superior siege spam, increasing many times over for an enemy that doesn’t know them yet.

Generally this is a bad idea imo; WvW should be about strategy, every player should be able to go in on any level, as ANet intended, rather than being forced onto their 80s against their will, and those having the most Ascended items or the most money to buy exotics winning. On top of this, the younger and senior player base would suffer, I know a fair few guys who can’t make heads or tails of what I find incredibly simple in terms of game mechanics – they will suffer for this, but to make it part of the Server’s score, is a bit harsh, furthermore whenever they venture into WvW all of the roamers will be gunning for them, and anyone that sees them will go and kill them for sure, even though quite a few people only to into WvW for map completion – getting slaughtered repeatedly and mercilessly on the way from A to B to press F on some vista is reportedly irritating, not to mention those PvEers that care not about the score will not care if they’re putting their server down by getting killed 50 times on their mindless path to A PoI.

charas.8321:

My suggestion is simple : we need to have a way to make the amount of kills we make in wvw matter. Its sad to see a system that is mostly rewarding for PvD servers more than for servers are are actually up to put up some fights.

An easy solution to that would be to implement a counter and make 1kill correspond to 0.1pt. Each kills made by players from a server would be added to each others during a match up, the total amount of those kills would then be added to the amount of points each server have at the end of a 1 week war period. The winner would then ofc be the server who managed to capitalize most points AFTER the kills addition.
(Nb of kills . 0.1)+Pts = final score

-Rewarding for servers who fight
-Motivate more players to actually go in the open field and meet their oponents
-Encourage the players to group up in organised guilds to optimize their field skills
-Nerf the impact of mindless PvD.

I m very very sure that most of the wvw community would welcome this change with a lot of enthousiasm.

There was never a war where the amount of death didn’t matter.

I always was under the impression kills were added to the ppt. Are you 100% sure they are not ? Maybe we can get a dev to confirm.

I can see a problem with how they will award points to killing a player. What if a player is tagged by two servers? Do they both get points? Does the point go to the killing blow player?

Too avoid all of this….rather than award points to the server killing people, deduct points from the server having people die. That way you could avoid all of the “Who gets the credit for the kill” talk.

“JQQ just dropped 50 points. That poor zerg…..”

Barab.9016:

charas.8321:

My suggestion is simple : we need to have a way to make the amount of kills we make in wvw matter. Its sad to see a system that is mostly rewarding for PvD servers more than for servers are are actually up to put up some fights.

An easy solution to that would be to implement a counter and make 1kill correspond to 0.1pt. Each kills made by players from a server would be added to each others during a match up, the total amount of those kills would then be added to the amount of points each server have at the end of a 1 week war period. The winner would then ofc be the server who managed to capitalize most points AFTER the kills addition.
(Nb of kills . 0.1)+Pts = final score

-Rewarding for servers who fight
-Motivate more players to actually go in the open field and meet their oponents
-Encourage the players to group up in organised guilds to optimize their field skills
-Nerf the impact of mindless PvD.

I m very very sure that most of the wvw community would welcome this change with a lot of enthousiasm.

There was never a war where the amount of death didn’t matter.

I always was under the impression kills were added to the ppt. Are you 100% sure they are not ? Maybe we can get a dev to confirm.

Kills account for nothing.

Also people will find a way to exploit this by making an account on the enemy server and farm it…

Good for think but not good for use.

1-If I think exploit.
Example IF my guild is fearking big and have 300people+.
Donate gold for 2way-ticket-gem for 10men jump to enemy each server.
And stay in some where shadow conner and call a whole guild server to kill 10men all day all night for it.(Oh and leave1man to res9naked of them to get kill again and again.)

2-No one play for help each other because they focus on killing kill kill kill what class can kill more easy to kill victim that point of www will full of them without another class.(And why we have a 8class but can play1or2class for easy mode kill huh?)

3-Get out you lowbie!! LV not80full acs-gear allow to play this www!!R U stupid?!?
Ok what now?WWW for over high-end-gear+LV only because lowLV can’t match them skill/gear/traits/etc.(And more painful word in my mind but I not want to talk in here.)

And hmmm…just3example for now if I think more I will talk to your guys here.

This is a terrible idea as many people mention it would create more elitism, promote the turtle zergs farming kills and would put randoms and pugs at a big disadvantage up against large guild groups as it is already.
I don’t like how capping stuff with little resistance at certain hours heavy influences the score but this would be the wrong way to discourage it. The whole point is the objective/strategy/point tick, not fighting gvg, rvr or gvr. Anet seem content the way it is anyway. We are getting a progression system that rewards the individual player for kills this month anyway.

Burl.9567:

Barab.9016:

charas.8321:

My suggestion is simple : we need to have a way to make the amount of kills we make in wvw matter. Its sad to see a system that is mostly rewarding for PvD servers more than for servers are are actually up to put up some fights.

An easy solution to that would be to implement a counter and make 1kill correspond to 0.1pt. Each kills made by players from a server would be added to each others during a match up, the total amount of those kills would then be added to the amount of points each server have at the end of a 1 week war period. The winner would then ofc be the server who managed to capitalize most points AFTER the kills addition.
(Nb of kills . 0.1)+Pts = final score

-Rewarding for servers who fight
-Motivate more players to actually go in the open field and meet their oponents
-Encourage the players to group up in organised guilds to optimize their field skills
-Nerf the impact of mindless PvD.

I m very very sure that most of the wvw community would welcome this change with a lot of enthousiasm.

There was never a war where the amount of death didn’t matter.

I always was under the impression kills were added to the ppt. Are you 100% sure they are not ? Maybe we can get a dev to confirm.

Kills account for nothing.

Regardless if they dont add to ppt. Which I swore I read months ago kills were added into the algorithmic score they account for forcing the defeated to pay repair bills and remove the opponent as obstacle in order to secure the object for points. Let alone the badges, items, and coin a defeated player provides. That’s far from accounting for nothing.

Jeknar.6184:

Also people will find a way to exploit this by making an account on the enemy server and farm it…

…and they cant do this now and aren’t? I am pretty sure we have all seen examples of people removing supply from keeps, turn siege around, sabo-ing upgrades, spying etc.

covenn.7165:

Jeknar.6184:

Also people will find a way to exploit this by making an account on the enemy server and farm it…

…and they cant do this now and aren’t? I am pretty sure we have all seen examples of people removing supply from keeps, turn siege around, sabo-ing upgrades, spying etc.

None of those your mentioned affect the Scoreboard directly… Points per kill would allow an exploit that would directly interfere in the game score.

Jeknar.6184:

covenn.7165:

Jeknar.6184:

Also people will find a way to exploit this by making an account on the enemy server and farm it…

…and they cant do this now and aren’t? I am pretty sure we have all seen examples of people removing supply from keeps, turn siege around, sabo-ing upgrades, spying etc.

None of those your mentioned affect the Scoreboard directly… Points per kill would allow an exploit that would directly interfere in the game score.

Last I checked, keeps and towers accounted for points. Not only that they can influence points as a whole in the zone indirectly. Not to mention the impact simply spying can have…..

Ok i’ll make it clearer this time:

covenn.7165:

…and they cant do this now and aren’t? I am pretty sure we have all seen examples of people removing supply from keeps, turn siege around, sabo-ing upgrades, spying etc.

I’ll remember to pick up supply from a tower/keep, order a merchant upgrade and spin that treb around just to see if the score board will change…

Oh i also chat with some people on SF about where the fight will happen and SF still winning by large margin… I guess my spying isn’t affecting the score enough…

This only promotes more zerging and the higher pop/better coverage servers will just get more ppt for it.

This already happens with doliaks, but with players it would be a bad thing? I dont see warbands defending a doliak to prevent the enemy realm from getting X points gain.

Neither would people stop playing to prevent enemy point gains, because the desire of playing the game is superior to that, and “half” the wPvP playerbase doesnt really care about scoring in its current form.

At least this way half of what you do in wPvP would actually matter, instead of just pvp door and time coverage.

Vohnnyan.4058:

This already happens with doliaks, but with players it would be a bad thing? I dont see warbands defending a doliak to prevent the enemy realm from getting X points gain.

Neither would people stop playing to prevent enemy point gains, because the desire of playing the game is superior to that, and “half” the wPvP playerbase doesnt really care about scoring in its current form.

At least this way half of what you do in wPvP would actually matter, instead of just pvp door and time coverage.

Dolyaks favor the underdog side. If you just killed dolyaks and never flipped a camp on a map that was completely the other sides…..

And after playing a pvp game that had a rating system based on deaths/points, yes, people would stop playing due to dieing. “Don’t feed them” will be the new battle cry. Right now the best people can come up with for not fighting is the repair bill.

zidia.3675:

Vohnnyan.4058:

This already happens with doliaks, but with players it would be a bad thing? I dont see warbands defending a doliak to prevent the enemy realm from getting X points gain.

Neither would people stop playing to prevent enemy point gains, because the desire of playing the game is superior to that, and “half” the wPvP playerbase doesnt really care about scoring in its current form.

At least this way half of what you do in wPvP would actually matter, instead of just pvp door and time coverage.

Dolyaks favor the underdog side. If you just killed dolyaks and never flipped a camp on a map that was completely the other sides…..

And after playing a pvp game that had a rating system based on deaths/points, yes, people would stop playing due to dieing. “Don’t feed them” will be the new battle cry. Right now the best people can come up with for not fighting is the repair bill.

Actually killing doliaks and not caping the camps will potentially give more points then caping the camp itself, still you dont see people exploiting this because suplies are too important, and without camps you cant maintain objectives or upgrade them.

If people dont come out and fight, they wont be hable to maintain their objectives and will lose the matchup, in a system like this the realm that avoids fighting will lose points over 2 other realms that actually fight each other.

When I first started WvW I thought for sure kill count would be part of the points system.