Guild Wars 2

This tactic is becoming serious issue in WvW game play, while this tactic would be fine if used occasionally, the problem is though that it can be used too often.

Suggestion on how to fix this problem: Portal Sickness – a debuff acquired after using a portal that lasts for say 5 minutes.

This would greatly help reduce the negative impact of this tactic while still making it a viable option in many situations.

Feel free to discuss ( Trolling is not discussing )

I disagree on this being an issue for it can be countered with a little forethought.

I do not know what you mean exactly since mesmer portal doesn’t really last that long so I am confused what you mean by portal bombing.

That seems like a reasonable suggestion without being too obtuse, and it even has a little bit of canon/lore in there* – however, are people really using portals THAT frequently, that 5 minutes would be sufficient?

* “I’ll do it, as I’m the most used to being teleported and thus least likely to regurgitate breakfast in front of the panel” – Asura player during synergetics story arc

It might also be good to exempt the mesmer themself from the rule as this impedes some of portals other legitimate PvE uses, it’s not like a lone mesmer is going to bring a army to it’s knees by themselves

O my mesmers are so Op I think they need a nerf.
Def an increased time limit on portal skills

@Narkosys Increased cooldown would not fix what is already happening, which is multiple mesmers doing it back to back.

@Ryuujin Yes in SoS SoR IoJ match up portal bombs are in almost every large scale encounter.

@gamefreak A portal bomb is when players stack up and a mesmer portals them into the enemy.(give or take a few minor extra details)

The real issue is the fact the “tactic” takes advantage of occlusion culling.

Goblin Beet Farmer.3045:

The real issue is the fact the “tactic” takes advantage of occlusion culling.

people think that porting gives you some culling buff. Aside from the Mesmer, who is completely rendered for the enemy, no one has an “advantage” Those portalled in are just as blind.

Just tonight one portal worked great, then second run through it was just a little “too easy” to get to the spot and low and behold it was a trap nice little wipe i portalled the group into. I fell for the trap so I take the blame but there’s no benefit to the portalled over those being jumped for culling.

O i saw this a few times. One time a mesmer ported a group of players to him and they are starting to build a treb on this cliff. Normally my 1 second staff aoe fear has never saved me or anyone else but this time i got 3-4 kills because they ended up being to close to the edge of the cliff. Ive seen it other times and you can instantly drop some players. Down side to this is everyone the players who port in dont always know what is going to be there or exactly the location they go but it is a tactic atleast.

Put a limit on the amount of people that can use the portal at a time. 5 per portal. Problem solved.

I don’t understand why there is no upper limit on how many people can use any given portal. Doesn’t make sense to me. Even if they put a usage counter on it portals will still be extremely useful.

Very simple and fair solution: AoE can only hit 5 targets therefore mesmer portal should disappear after 5 people travel though it.
There is no reason to allow an entire 50+ zerg to use a single portal.

with the rendering bug, this IS a problem. we cannot see the portal and there’s nothing we can do about it.

since they moved the orbs out, this issue is less important in certain ways, but it is still there. worse with rending issues.

Portals are awesome! You get a jump on enemy zerg, can move faster and get a compleatly new tactical level to WvW gameplay. I just love them! And when the enemy zerg uses portals, for excample behind us when we are assaulting a keep, it makes picking up 20-40 bags so much easier!

On a serious note personally I see nothing wrong with portals, but I do understand that not-so-organized-no-voice-com groups would have loads of problems to counter portals done by organized enemies. Just that when you put two organized groups together the advantage can became a deathtrap really fast.

One of the only tactical tools in this game that provides some means other than one zerg standing in a line running into another zerg standing in line; the issue is rendering issues with the graphics.

You can see the purple glowing thing on the ground and you know some people likely will follow in on it.
The portal is generally useless in open warfare if you just act accordingly.
It’s used to “bomb” defensive siege or get away from defensive siege, so place siege accordingly.
It’s used to pull people into a keep where walls or doors are down, so plug up the holes in the walls so the mesmer cannot run into the keep and if you can’t fend off the amount of people in the portal – most chances are you wouldn’t be able to either if the people just moved together as a blob.

It seems simply as ‘we have not found a way to counter – nerf’.
The portal does not damage, has time limits, has range limits and the memser needs to run into the location to place it and people have to coordinate using it.
It’s a fun tool, a useful tool – but it’s only a tool. It’s not a tool that kills you.

I don’t want this game to be blob vs blob – but removing the tools which do provide tactical options will do this. Instead they should add more useful tactical tools.

Look, I play a mesmer and even I am getting sick of seeing the thing.
Some teams use it as their main strategy. Everywhere you go they magically appear and it isn’t fruity delicious when they take you apart before you see them.
The lag it brings on is nasty too. I hit a skill 6 times and didn’t get it to go off. So I hit another skill 3 times. Neither would work, just radiate and zone in and out and I’m watching my health fall. I have plenty of oh crap instant cast skills but they turn into 14s casts when the bandits hit. I see them, we are both moving but I can’t do diddly. Or worse, I don’t see them, I just see a bunch of conditions then I start to see them.

Don’t tell me it’s my computer either 6 core 10g ram.

If it were every once in awhile ok but people are doing it so much it has become their only tactic. Now people expect every mesmer to have and use portals just to compete with their enemy… excuse me but this is my skillbar and if I want to put another skill there, that should be my choice. When we take something 5 people say – sweep for mesmers! Not sweep for enemies, only the mesmers matter.

Have we come so far from removing the trinity to now be forced into the portal mesmer as the defacto standard for pvp. I think it goes against the idea of taking out a “have to” spec and this is really turning into one.

“@Ryuujin Yes in SoS SoR IoJ match up portal bombs are in almost every large scale encounter.”

That is truth, I am on IOJ and saw it over and over, we did it in the garrison, they did it attacking the garrison, they did it to us whenever we got on the bay wall. It just works too good for people not to abuse it. Either you lag out your enemy from fighting back or you are so close together on a spot that you barely get hit by AOE and can slam the enemy while rezzing and healing your ppl right in your cozy clump. A combat to this is siege weapons but who has siege weapons like that taking over an area, nobody. Nobody dumps siege all around them just to be AOE’d down by the sentries, the cannons, the mortar, the people on the walls etc. Sometimes you are lucky if enough people are even there if you drop 2 or 3 rams. Reaction time has to be less than a minute in our battles, there is no time to run for supply, if you run for it, they drop off and kill the siege. We have supply camps taken all the time before the buff on the claimer is off. You can’t count on a supply camp even being around 5 minutes, what’s the average it takes to run anywhere – 1 or 2 minutes eh. So you need one man for every 10 or 15 supply you plan to use. P.s. Siege weapons don’t work so hot right around them. Lots of them need range and you don’t get range from a portal group. The sad part is that people do it at supply camps now, really not a place we should be needing to bomb but hey, if it chokes the enemy – why not.

@Xandax I am not asking to remove this in anyway, I am asking to put a timer on how often it can be used. This would make this tactic just as effective as it ever was, just it would force you to use it wisely rather than several mesmers back to back.

Osicat.4139:

Nuff said :P

Better say that in English.

“This video contains content from SME, UMPG Publishing and EMI, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.”

Here we go, last vid blocked by EDI in al of the world.

The worst thing about this is not only the rendering issues, but also when a large group uses the portal it mitigates any damage while they are “teleporting” to the other portal. Also, the whole AoE capping at damaging only a certain amount of enemies (instead of every enemy in the vicinity of the AoE) causes any large group using the portal to mitigate damage by stacking on top of one another when teleporting. For anyone here that played World of Warcraft, putting a debuff cooldown on using portals (Like how a Priest in WoW put a debuff on anyone they used Power Word: Shield on so it would prevent them from just spamming that skill over and over again) would help stop this portal bombing and multiple mesmers using portals to move large groups in a blob. If you use a portal you have a 1-2 minute debuff that prevents you from entering another portal until that debuff wears off.

The problem with portal bombing is that it makes mesmer god tier in WvW and forces almost every mesmer in a decent WvW guild to use portal.

People are openly talking about the need for more mesmers and more portals in my guild at times.

No other class can have the huge impact on the battlefield that mesmers can atm.

Put it this way, if you have a lvl 80 geared character of any other class and a lvl 80 geared mesmer, what possible reason could you have to bring the other class?

Ergo Proxy.6219:

The problem with portal bombing is that it makes mesmer god tier in WvW and forces almost every mesmer in a decent WvW guild to use portal.

People are openly talking about the need for more mesmers and more portals in my guild at times.

No other class can have the huge impact on the battlefield that mesmers can atm.

Put it this way, if you have a lvl 80 geared character of any other class and a lvl 80 geared mesmer, what possible reason could you have to bring the other class?

We have a guy who rolled a Mesmer for similar reason.. the server was just crazy short of them at one point (much to my delight when I joined server). Now that we have enough for gank groups and tactical movements he is told “why are you on your Mesmer” This was quoted just last night.

The good Mesmer IMO are not just portal slaves but they know what they are doing in every aspect of their craft and almost exclusively play a Mesmer. The commanders have grown to know the names and use them rather than just ask someone to go roll a Mesmer. Of course I think this evolved over time of Mesmer educating the commanders of exactly what we can do as it was a bit of a mystery for a while, as well as commanders giving clear instructions of what they want from us.

A Mesmer that doesn’t know how to avoid porting their forces into a trap or who can’t push through the nastiest chokes on the map have no use… because the portal either equals death or it never lands.

Moving 100 feet is easy, moving completely around a cliff up a choke and behind enemy siege without being scouted and then putting portal in the right spot without making it too far from the origin is more timing and talent.

You know I was on TS3 the other night and I swear all I heard was “who has a portal” “portal timer?” “portal inc in 5” “Enemy portal behind us”. Hehe Portal Wars. Too bad I don’t get cake….

Portal Wars 2! lol

I think this mechanic is too game changing, particularly with the rendering ug

As a mesmer, I have to support having a limit on the amount of people being ported (maybe 5, the default group size), or having some type of restriction.

It’s just used and abused too much to stay the way it is.

If the group that is targetted with this tactic is as coordinated as the group that uses it, you’ll notice its not some all amazing strategy.

It can be countered, and if it fails it leaves those that use it in a crippled position. Im not going into great detail, sort it out for yourself. Have a look at certain abilities other professions have.

We face this tactic many times a day, by now its something that more often fails then actually works.
The only thing i have an issue with is the sheer importance of the Mesmer in WvW. Allowing special tactics, getting golems around faster and being the single one profession you NEED to exterminate from a tower/keep because it can single-handedly bypass all defenses. Or timewarp greatly benefitting groups and golems.

Portal bombing in itself is not the issue, the issue imo is that a single profession can be so incredibly important that armies rely on it more then any other profession. Altough Guardian is a kitten close second.

Why does every innovative tactic that gets thought up have to be nerfed? It can be countered so get better at doing that.

It’s not innovative though.

more baddies defending their exploiting of the rendering bugs.

Max of 5 people per portal would just get ruined if a random person jumped through your portal before your guildy/party member used it. Portals should be restricted to groupmates I think. Guilds can still use them for bombing etc, just cant be porting zergs around

1: nothing wrong with current design of mez portals – it only lasts 20 seconds
2: Sooo easy to counter as a mez has to be inside the walls or whatever location the zerg wants to be FIRST. IE: Kill the mez and the mez cant portal
3: Issue you’re having isnt with the portaling, it’s the fact that Anet still needs to fix the rendering problem.

I dont use it much myself, but what ive noticed is most folks are “tunnel visioned” so its easy to slip past them, get behind them, and drop a portal. Tell your folks to stop facing/watching one direction only, especially when a gate/wall goes down. Good timing on invis and a mez can sneak past the fights. Just need to watch for them.

Fight to Survive: That needs to be deleted period in Wv3! Dumb when someone “dead” can do more damage than before you pre-killed them.

No I’m pretty sure if they reduced the effectiveness of portals greatly it would help with the other issues quite a bit.

An entire zerg of 50+ people appearing out of nowhere is just stupid. It highlights both the rendering and culling issues. I’ve been on both ends of it and it doesn’t change how I feel.

It allows far to many people to be far to mobile negating the entire purpose of sieges on both the offensive and defensive.

I would also like to add that in it’s current state there is little to no tactics invovled in it’s use. It’s just port zerg and mash aoe buttons to victory. Reducing the amount of people who can go through a portal would greatly increase the need for you know..actual tactics.

One major problems I have with this whole thing is that no OTHER class has abilities that can change the game in such a massive way.

Do you see people shouting “CHECK FOR WARRIORS!” when sweeping and objective?

No.

So, until other classes get an ability like “portals” which can change the game so much; nothing anyone says will change my opinion that mesmers are given way to much power to everyone else in Wv3.

Give my ele a game changer too pls.

@fixit: You can rain hell down on people on top of battlements like no other. Only this morning we needed take down some trebs on a battlement and we set up a special elementalist task force to do just that…

Incidentlly, Mesmer is one of the worst classes for attacking battlements and entrench positions for this same reason (serious lack of indirect fire)

Ryuujin.8236:

@fixit: You can rain hell down on people on top of battlements like no other. Only this morning we needed take down some trebs on a battlement and we set up a special elementalist task force to do just that…

Incidentlly, Mesmer is one of the worst classes for attacking battlements and entrench positions for this same reason (serious lack of indirect fire)

I think you missed the point entirely.

thief “stealth house” + mesmer portal + rendering bug = full of win

@Ryu: yes, I can rain hell down on people…it can be effective. But if enemy has any clue, they will simply stack and mitigate everything I do easily. And then you point out that you needed many eles on a task force; not one so that really isn’t much of an arguement vs one class who has such power as an individual class like the mesmer.

One mesmer with a clue allows entire zergs to move around at will and due to rendering…that zerg is also invisible. They can move infinite amounts too.

Yet an ele can hit 5 targets max.

Ok.

Question: How to deal with portals?

1 Answer: Whine until ANet removes an entire skill-set from a class that destroys unorganized zergs.
2 Answer: Teach your guardians to drop a sanctuary on top of portals.

Unfortunately whiners always win in MMO’s.

Anti-invisibility field would work. Like an engineer turret that, when dropped, decloaks anything around it in a fairly large radius. Make it an elite. Engineers need an elite turret anyway.

Invisibility currently has no direct counter. Something like this would help bring thieves back in line a bit as well as allow a prepared group some chance to defend against a rushing, invisible mesmer.

fixit.7189:

@Ryu: yes, I can rain hell down on people…it can be effective. But if enemy has any clue, they will simply stack and mitigate everything I do easily. And then you point out that you needed many eles on a task force; not one so that really isn’t much of an arguement vs one class who has such power as an individual class like the mesmer.

One mesmer with a clue allows entire zergs to move around at will and due to rendering…that zerg is also invisible. They can move infinite amounts too.

Yet an ele can hit 5 targets max.

Ok.

To right
Give back the Ele full AoE at least in WvWvW or Nerf the Mesmer and Thief to 5 as well

Isredel.4302:

I disagree on this being an issue for it can be countered with a little forethought.

Mesmer portals are kind of being abused all over WvW like Thiefs stealth with rendering issues but as Isredel said its easy to counter them.

When you see a non activated Mesmer portal on the floor walk up to it and stack on it. Soon as it lights up drop every AoE you have and like magic they die.

One thing ive noticed alot of big guilds do is stack inside a keep or tower and all move out the door portal at the same time causing a rendering issue and letting them fight 5 or so seconds without being seen.

First thing I do when leaving a mesmer port is to dodge. That pretty much gets me out of any amount to AoE enemy happens to place on that port majority of the time. If its a little bit heavier in AoE, I might have to dodge twice. Oh noes!

fixit.7189:

First thing I do when leaving a mesmer port is to dodge. That pretty much gets me out of any amount to AoE enemy happens to place on that port majority of the time. If its a little bit heavier in AoE, I might have to dodge twice. Oh noes!

But then everyone ends up spreading out, rendering to the enemy and getting wiped if you have enough people to survive that then you didn’t need a Mesmer portal in the first place you just needed to jump of the wall and zerg the siege.

A simple tweak for Mesmers portal would be to set a limit on how many people can teleport through it before it disappears.

limiting number of portalled turns Mesmer into a buff bot IMO.

You still need to port just as many people to do supply runs, for example but in stead of Mesmer taking turns playing taxi driver by ones and twos, they will do nothing but sit on high cliffs in groups and wait for the call to come pick up the group. It’s bad enough to sit in a keep for hours hoping for a chance to be the hero let alone the no fame “hey come pick us up 5 at a time for cliff-side supplies…”

It would be like working the jumping puzzle but for your whole WvW life, which I already don’t dig.

color code the portals by faction and increase the sound effect and visibility. i can’t even see them half the time to take action. also delay the time from when they are visible and can be used.

Portals by themselves are fine I guess, it just looks much worse then it is because of culling and the 5 target limitation of aoes. If those were gone (aoe limit waived for pvp only), portals by themselves wouldn’t be much of an issue I think.

I would like to see color code difference also. It is a pita to have to call out on TS every-time I want to port myself so the forces don’t freak out.

Ryuujin.8236:

@fixit: You can rain hell down on people on top of battlements like no other. Only this morning we needed take down some trebs on a battlement and we set up a special elementalist task force to do just that…

Incidentlly, Mesmer is one of the worst classes for attacking battlements and entrench positions for this same reason (serious lack of indirect fire)

iBerserker will spawn without LOS, so it’ll hit siege on the other side of walls.

Btw, I have 80 ele but rerolled mesmer.

anet removed the relics largely because they couldn’t fix the hacking.

maybe they should remove mesmer portals and stealth until they fix the culling ?

i think that the portaling system is fine its the rendering, even though people my think its not a tatic, but it is it’s just like ambushing a team so i don’t see the big problem, also what stops a say 20 man zerghiding around the conner of a keep having thievs stealth them all then run in? the main thing is they need to sort out the rendering and everyone will be happy, becasue when you portal in its the same as when people portal on you you cant see each other but the portal people have the upper hand like a ambush