Guild Wars 2

SO the letter on facebook today talked about the things they were adding to GW2.

Under WvW they said a Prestige system to gain abilities and bonuses only for WvW. Also said Title view able by other players. I’m assuming this would be a rank system.

If they do this right, and make it similar to DAOC’s realm rank system this could be exactly what WvW needs. A way to keep rewarding people for playing and something that keep improving your character so you feel like your still making your guy better even after max level and gear.

I am happy now!

Where did you hear this?

I want Bunker of Faith and Speed of Sound…now plz

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

Next they will add in ML abilities, the Sojourner ML9 and 10 were awesome. Well, I doubt it, but they were nice.

Ive been wanting a reward system that doesnt involve gear. DAOC was a great example. you can keep building your character even after max level and have the feeling that your always making your character better.

This is the endgame alot of us wanted

We can only hope it’s realm ranks.

I bet you can get any ranks they add by hiding in a zerg. They’ll mean nothing. Calling it now.

Hopefully they will be smarter about that and base it off damage done and divided to the group. example you solo kill 1000 points. . group of 5 kills someone each gets 200 points. you hit someone once or twice in a zerg run over its more like 20 points.

It worked in DAOC

I hope they do something like RR’s, I’ve suggested it countless times. They need to be careful if they do that, its not to easy to achieve prestige (rank) levels, the abilities are not OP, and finally I hope any abilities will not be race/class specific. Everyone gets the same abilities (or choices) regardless of class/race.

The ease of achievment is a big one though, DAoC was so simplistic towards the end, RR12’s in a month or two … I remember back around release when it took ALOT of time and effort to get your RR’s.

If prestige is similiar to DAoC’s RR’s then its a great start on bettering Wv3.

I wouldn’t be so quick to claim realm ranks would save WvW. Most people are going to find the fastest way to level realm ranks. Period. Let’s face it, integrity in MMO’s is declining at an accelerated rate since the days of DAOC.

Realm ranks could totally destroy WvW as we know it if extreme care isn’t taken to find the right system.

For example, if you use damage as your gauge. People are just going to do more glass cannon builds than they are now. There would be no support characters. They will probably stop taking objectives. Some guilds would organize trading sessions. That is just a few I can think off, I am sure there are more.

Ljiona.9142:

I wouldn’t be so quick to claim realm ranks would save WvW. Most people are going to find the fastest way to level realm ranks. Period. Let’s face it, integrity in MMO’s is declining at an accelerated rate since the days of DAOC.

Realm ranks could totally destroy WvW as we know it if extreme care isn’t taken to find the right system.

For example, if you use damage as your gauge. People are just going to do more glass cannon builds than they are now. There would be no support characters. They will probably stop taking objectives. Some guilds would organize trading sessions. That is just a few I can think off, I am sure there are more.

I agree, this is why I said they need to be careful. The fact that they are looking into this type of system though gives me hope, I’ve played pretty much every game on the market and have never been impressed with their gear grind PvP systems or what have you. The RR system, although it had its flaws, was imo the best PvP advance system and as you said if its handled correctly then it could be great. If handled poorly well I won’t disagree that some serious damage could be done.

Im so glad to see all the DAOCers coming out. I thought we all perished from the earth of open pvp. The past 4 -5 years of carebear pvp, no consequences on death, ez mode classes, and terrible terrible end game let alone lack of open pvp has developed the wrong mentality. I hope Anet understands the pvp in DAOC has never been matched overall (I realize some games had better parts here and there) but overall has been the best. DAOCers rally in these forums and push for the old days. It was worth it then, to spend the time to get to rr10+. It will be again if we can convince Anet that is best for REAL pvp to develop.

Looks like realm ranks to me. And adding into the game about the same time into go-live I think that they added realm ranks into DAoC

I could be wrong, but I thought I remember reading somewhere way back while GW2 was in development that they had some of the original DAoC team working with them. Kind of off topic and pointless but it just popped into my head.

Ouch!

I’m a former DAoC player and I left it because of the additional grind added by RR in order to stay competitive.

The last thing I want to see is another grind just to stay competitive. WvWvW will need an influx of new players and the ability to retain casual players that feel they can at least compete without a whole new layer of grind. Adding anything that jeopardizes this risks ruining the WvWvW environment as a whole.

Tread very carefully ANet.

Sureshot.6725:

Ouch!

I’m a former DAoC player and I left it because of the additional grind added by RR in order to stay competitive.

The last thing I want to see is another grind just to stay competitive. WvWvW will need an influx of new players and the ability to retain casual players that feel they can at least compete without a whole new layer of grind. Adding anything that jeopardizes this risks ruining the WvWvW environment as a whole.

Tread very carefully ANet.

Agreed.
They could possibly add non direct combat abilities.
increase supply.
faster building.
special siege.
Command tools. (targetting icons, publicly visible field markers)
dolyak speed booster.
etc.
etc.

I just hope that the hundreds upon hundreds of hours that I have spent in WvW busting my tail won’t be all for naught when this system gets introduced. I don’t particularly care how they go about implementing it. A shiny rank or title would be enough, abilities would be icing on the cake, but, if they do not grandfather in my previous stats, I will be furious.

It should be kills only, and yes it should be retroactive.

And no it shouldn’t be easy to gain ranks.

The realm rank system will also allow people even though they are losing to have a side goal.

They won’t do that just like how daoc added titles people that had a million kills didn’t get there points grandfathered in. They had to start from 0 like everyone else. Which in my opinion is the right thing to do.

I feel as though all positive actions to work towards your team should accrue points. It may take some tweaking, but capturing keeps or defending keeps should give points as well. I hesitate to imply that building siege or repairing structures should be included only because we all know people will sit in a supply camp and build nothing but flame rams or constantly run keep supply to a wall that is being trebbed completely draining the keep’s supply. Things like that have the capacity to troll a server so badly because some selfish individual decides they want to “farm” rank, something that you can’t simply farm. If it is solely kills, I worry about the impact that has for support players who are invaluable assets for any organized force. ANet needs to find a way to equally reward support players.

Tekren.4580:

They won’t do that just like how daoc added titles people that had a million kills didn’t get there points grandfathered in. They had to start from 0 like everyone else. Which in my opinion is the right thing to do.

I disagree. Players who have busted their tail for months would be on the same level as someone who abandoned the game or has never WvW’d before. That’s nonsense. I spend countless hours in WvW daily and all of us would have nothing to show for that. ANet would have to add it retroactively if it isn’t original design because I promise you that there would be an uproar.

Out of all these threads on this topic, I haven’t caught anything about Ascended gear in w3 yet. I don’t care about ranks, usually just tells me who plays the most hours a day to be useless, and adding any sort of combat edge for time played sort of shafts people who work but contribute more to w3 in an hour or two then the pve leechers who can play all day while they flunk school and their kids go hungry but somehow don’t have the silver to buy one upgrade.

Fix what needs fixing, stretch out and fill the terrain we can fight over, and add more skins. Aside from that, we could use a better ui for squads, for both commander and troops.

Indo.8629:

It should be kills only, and yes it should be retroactive.

And no it shouldn’t be easy to gain ranks.

The realm rank system will also allow people even though they are losing to have a side goal.

No. No. No. No.

You need to do things before you post again. First, read the post above from Ljiona … he/she is spot on regarding the pitfalls of making these additional rewards too individualized instead of basing them upon overall success for the server. Secondly, fire up a free trial version of Rift and go play a few matches of Conquest. Note all the friction and arguing in chat among the members of the same team as some of them go for group objectives and the others go for individual objectives.

If ANet isn’t extremely careful how they handle this, it will absolutely ruin WvW for everyone … you included.

I’ve been banking my badges for months for Ascended gear. All we can do is hope they don’t screw us there as well by making a new currency. Would be just about as bad as not retroactively counting kills/points for those players who have played WvW through all the BS.

It would be cool to see an eve like medal system.
In eve medals could be created by the corp and the corp awarded the medals to the players. it meant much more to me then some title grinded out.

maybe the prestige would not be for personal use but to buy rewards for others. not sure how that would work but whatever… less automation and more player control.

I actually never played eve for longer then 5 min, so if I’m understanding what your saying, I think that would be a poor design. It would be a popularity contest.

As long as the system still allows transfers, I duly hope it doesnt involve real ranks as it would destroy any decent server. Easymoders will flock to those servers even if it included paying money and having to stay out of wvw for a week. Realm transfer should only be allowed to low/med populated servers.

Nuzt.7894:

I actually never played eve for longer then 5 min, so if I’m understanding what your saying, I think that would be a poor design. It would be a popularity contest.

In eve the medals were awarded by only those with the rank to do so.
So yeah there is some popularity in it but its your guild.

So even if there was no guild. and it was players basically voting with their own prestige for MVP’s.
so what.
Some people would get hurt i guess but a lot more people would build loyalty and pride and all that crud.

Especially if they were custom designed that anyone could read the text for if so chosen.

I’m more intrigued by "Also, we’ll add a new motivation to the WvW domain that goes beyond the overall weekly score to give more short term reasons to be winning in WvW as well. "

Seeing as we’re doing the DAoC comparison, Darkness Falls anyone?

Im not sure how darkness falls sort of thing would help you know? new content i guess but there is not a gear grind to support that sort of thing in that form.
opening up dueling arenas might be good. with stat tracking and spectators.

maybe missions? Which would be cool all by itself where people could buy bounties on enemies or guilds.
Or give commanders the ability to buy missions that people could choose to do. take this spot. ransack a town.
i dunno. what is the incentive to play? enjoyment of the game i think…

Esoteric.5490:

I just hope that the hundreds upon hundreds of hours that I have spent in WvW busting my tail won’t be all for naught when this system gets introduced. I don’t particularly care how they go about implementing it. A shiny rank or title would be enough, abilities would be icing on the cake, but, if they do not grandfather in my previous stats, I will be furious.

I wvw every day and I can say is that not grandfathering is most likely the beat way to do it at this point. There is not enough cheese in the world to go with the whine that would come from the people who have not wvwed becuase of lack of rewards if we got something they didn’t.

Ordibble.3092:

I’m more intrigued by "Also, we’ll add a new motivation to the WvW domain that goes beyond the overall weekly score to give more short term reasons to be winning in WvW as well. "

Seeing as we’re doing the DAoC comparison, Darkness Falls anyone?

Man do you remember all the pve people who would show up in DF when your realm took it. I would look around at them and be like “who are you and why are you in my dungeon”.

Samhayn.2385:

I wvw every day and I can say is that not grandfathering is most likely the beat way to do it at this point. There is not enough cheese in the world to go with the whine that would come from the people who have not wvwed becuase of lack of rewards if we got something they didn’t.

Well, to be honest, screw those people. We played a thankless game with few rewards and no progression for months. Many left the game in droves while we did not. ANet denying all of the achievements we have to date would be spitting on us. The audacity that players who quit WvW could complain about something that we earned. That would be like me complaining that I don’t have enough fractals relics to buy a back piece, but ANet should give me one because I just started yesterday and it isn’t fair.

7 year daoc vet here and I’d love to see realm ranks make an appearance. However it also goes largely against anet’s like of making everything casual friendly. Sub 80s already are cannon fodder in wvw. Increasing the gap further will not help unless it’s different kinds of abilities. Speeding up dolyaks, increased supply carry and things like those would be nice.

As for stats not being grandfathered in, they’re already keeping track of them. Mythic wasn’t keeping track on stats which is why when titles when in everyone started at the same spot.

Samhayn.2385:

Ordibble.3092:

Seeing as we’re doing the DAoC comparison, Darkness Falls anyone?

Man do you remember all the pve people who would show up in DF when your realm took it. I would look around at them and be like “who are you and why are you in my dungeon”.

The fights when control of DF flipped were hilarious. People desperately finishing off mobs and trying to get those fights finished, while watching their backs for the inevitable enemy zerg chasing through the dungeon. Wiping enemy farming/XP by sessions by pulling loads of epic mobs onto them. Interrupting enemy boss fights by killing their healers and then standing back and watching the fun. Good times

Esoteric.5490:

Samhayn.2385:

I wvw every day and I can say is that not grandfathering is most likely the beat way to do it at this point. There is not enough cheese in the world to go with the whine that would come from the people who have not wvwed becuase of lack of rewards if we got something they didn’t.

Well, to be honest, screw those people. We played a thankless game with few rewards and no progression for months. Many left the game in droves while we did not. ANet denying all of the achievements we have to date would be spitting on us. The audacity that players who quit WvW could complain about something that we earned. That would be like me complaining that I don’t have enough fractals relics to buy a back piece, but ANet should give me one because I just started yesterday and it isn’t fair.

They aren’t going to do it and I don’t get why you would want it. Unless you are hoping for a system where zerging gets you the most Prestige becuase right now that’s the best way to rack up kills.

If they don’t have a system for giving prestige based on the quality of the kills then it will be a pointless zerg stat and that’s what “kills” is currently. Even if all of yours are from solo kills, someone else can have the same number or more all from AoE zerg kills and will have higher prestige than you. They did not have a system in place for this before this update so you can’t assume they would be able to retroactively track kill quality if they are even planning on doing that at all.

Daoc’s realm points were awarded based on your groups contribution to each kill and was maxed for solo kills of high ranked players. I hope for as similar system but we shall see.

Esoteric.5490:

Tekren.4580:

They won’t do that just like how daoc added titles people that had a million kills didn’t get there points grandfathered in. They had to start from 0 like everyone else. Which in my opinion is the right thing to do.

I disagree. Players who have busted their tail for months would be on the same level as someone who abandoned the game or has never WvW’d before. That’s nonsense. I spend countless hours in WvW daily and all of us would have nothing to show for that. ANet would have to add it retroactively if it isn’t original design because I promise you that there would be an uproar.

Just wow! “..have busted their tail for months..” or “..spent countless hours in WvW daily and all of us have nothing to show for that”

This is the kind of mentality that is scary. This is a game which is supposed to be about good competitive fun and you turn it into something akin to work. I’ve gotten plenty of entertainment and great fun out of the game and continue to do so.

I’m all for additions that provide more depth to the tactical and strategic elements or modded maps etc. but not additional skill or gear grinds.

The obsession with progression and rewards for doing something that is supposed to be enjoyable is deeply disturbing.

Esoteric.5490:

Tekren.4580:

They won’t do that just like how daoc added titles people that had a million kills didn’t get there points grandfathered in. They had to start from 0 like everyone else. Which in my opinion is the right thing to do.

I disagree. Players who have busted their tail for months would be on the same level as someone who abandoned the game or has never WvW’d before. That’s nonsense. I spend countless hours in WvW daily and all of us would have nothing to show for that. ANet would have to add it retroactively if it isn’t original design because I promise you that there would be an uproar.

You have badges, everyone should start at 0. Can’t complain since you were wvwin for fun right?

CrassBippy.4619:

Esoteric.5490:

Tekren.4580:

They won’t do that just like how daoc added titles people that had a million kills didn’t get there points grandfathered in. They had to start from 0 like everyone else. Which in my opinion is the right thing to do.

I disagree. Players who have busted their tail for months would be on the same level as someone who abandoned the game or has never WvW’d before. That’s nonsense. I spend countless hours in WvW daily and all of us would have nothing to show for that. ANet would have to add it retroactively if it isn’t original design because I promise you that there would be an uproar.

You have badges, everyone should start at 0. Can’t complain since you were wvwin for fun right?

This assumes that badges will not be outdated currency with the changes.

Esoteric.5490:

Samhayn.2385:

I wvw every day and I can say is that not grandfathering is most likely the beat way to do it at this point. There is not enough cheese in the world to go with the whine that would come from the people who have not wvwed becuase of lack of rewards if we got something they didn’t.

Well, to be honest, screw those people. We played a thankless game with few rewards and no progression for months. Many left the game in droves while we did not. ANet denying all of the achievements we have to date would be spitting on us. The audacity that players who quit WvW could complain about something that we earned. That would be like me complaining that I don’t have enough fractals relics to buy a back piece, but ANet should give me one because I just started yesterday and it isn’t fair.

Spot on here!

I doubt they will do a retroactive, and I have no idea how they will handle it if they don’t. If you primarily dps (and aoe at that) you are favored in almost every rank system. If you are curing, buffing, healing, etc, you usually get screwed. They can’t even balance out the drops average now, so I don’t have high hopes for a random number that will determine my “rank”.

Badges…I get one for about every 30 players killed. I am usually on siege, cannons and ac’s mostly, and I’m a necro running power and condition on everything with staff and all wells for utility skills. I’m easily hitting tons of players and more than meeting the damage minimum, yet rarely see a drop and when I do it’s a trophy item. So, I really don’t care what they do with the currency. But I can imagine in either case, a lot of people will be kitten off.

Good thing I enjoy standing watch at towers/keeps because the loot is nearly non-existent. Personally, I would like to see simple changes that somewhat make sense.
There is no reason why the aoe cap should be 5 people, as a necro I look forward to this being changed, although I fear is means they will just nerf the kitten out of us (and likely leave everyone else alone – for “balance”).
Having to stand on the edges of walls to hit people below you seems silly.
Make holding structures actually worth it…and not 360 karma every now and again, and only if you found someone to hit with a stick during that 3 minutes.
Change the way waypoints are contested, and maybe even remove swords from the map altogether.

Eh…I’m done rambling.

Esoteric.5490:

We played a thankless game with few rewards and no progression for months. Many left the game in droves while we did not. ANet denying all of the achievements we have to date would be spitting on us. The audacity that players who quit WvW could complain about something that we earned. That would be like me complaining that I don’t have enough fractals relics to buy a back piece, but ANet should give me one because I just started yesterday and it isn’t fair.

I am honestly flabbergasted by that post. Why on earth would you “play a thankless game for months”?? Seriously, why would you? There is something truly bent in your life if you need to play a video game that you don’t enjoy purely for achievement and progression versus other players. On top of that you made a horrible choice when you decided to get it from PvP in GW2 since ArenaNet has widely advertised that aspect of the game as trying to avoid things like gear grinds as much as possible. GW2 was supposed to be a game where the action itself was the primary reason for playing it.

There are LOTS of other MMOs out there with a heavy emphasis on progression and grinding. You sound like somebody who shows up on a tennis court and starts complaining that there aren’t any basketball hoops.

Ubi.4136:

I doubt they will do a retroactive, and I have no idea how they will handle it if they don’t. If you primarily dps (and aoe at that) you are favored in almost every rank system. If you are curing, buffing, healing, etc, you usually get screwed. They can’t even balance out the drops average now, so I don’t have high hopes for a random number that will determine my “rank”.

Badges…I get one for about every 30 players killed. I am usually on siege, cannons and ac’s mostly, and I’m a necro running power and condition on everything with staff and all wells for utility skills. I’m easily hitting tons of players and more than meeting the damage minimum, yet rarely see a drop and when I do it’s a trophy item. So, I really don’t care what they do with the currency. But I can imagine in either case, a lot of people will be kitten off.

Good thing I enjoy standing watch at towers/keeps because the loot is nearly non-existent. Personally, I would like to see simple changes that somewhat make sense.
There is no reason why the aoe cap should be 5 people, as a necro I look forward to this being changed, although I fear is means they will just nerf the kitten out of us (and likely leave everyone else alone – for “balance”).
Having to stand on the edges of walls to hit people below you seems silly.
Make holding structures actually worth it…and not 360 karma every now and again, and only if you found someone to hit with a stick during that 3 minutes.
Change the way waypoints are contested, and maybe even remove swords from the map altogether.

Eh…I’m done rambling.

They can come up with a system that rewards you toward a kill if you applied various boons to the damage dealers, conditions to the people who died and stuff like that. Ideally it would promote grouping and everyone splits the “points” with their group.

Stiv.1820:

They can come up with a system that rewards you toward a kill if you applied various boons to the damage dealers, conditions to the people who died and stuff like that. Ideally it would promote grouping and everyone splits the “points” with their group.

DAOC had a similar system in its mid to-later development I think, where if you healed your team mates, rezzed, temporarily buffed them etc, it would award you some xp/realm points for doing so.
It did lead to people running a lot more ancillary, group-friendly abilities and a better overall game I thought because people where equally rewarded for what they did.

Its pretty important to remember players like the support-guards, engineers, staff ele’s and shout-heal warriors who offset their personal ‘mad dps’, to keep a group going with those buffs, condition removals and extra healing when we would never have won a fight without them… and often won fights that no one normally should have lived through!

I dunno about realm ranks, in DAOC I had mid-high RR on some characters which tended to only become viable really after RR4+ to a group, in WAR I was in the top-5% bracket which just sort of didn’t do anything much except have zergs of newbs chase me down on the off-chance I dropped something shiny… after I killed a lot of them
So there needs to be some middle ground where you’re both viable, desirable to a group for your spec and not necessarily RR, which shouldn’t be a ‘massive’ increase to anything more than 1-2pts in stats or a few 2-3%’s of resistances here and there.

Course, as someone with now over 1000hrs just in WvW who’s spent a lot of late nights protecting my server’s honour, never left when we bounced off rock bottom, outmanned or ran away and hid in PvE… I will probably cry a bit if they didn’t grandfather my time in the trenches on this crptacularly buggy necro of all classes and make all these 1000’s of badges useful for something!

Thresher.3049:

DAOC had a similar system in its mid to-later development I think, where if you healed your team mates, rezzed, temporarily buffed them etc, it would award you some xp/realm points for doing so.

IIRC swtor did too if it led to a kill.

Dark Age of Camelot was the beginning of carebear systems for PvP, and was the first to bring us zergs, and players who were afraid to leave PvE without a solid group.

No, hardcore gaming was Everquest I, (Rallos Zek), and earlier. On Everquest you could be ganked visiting the bank, and lose all your coin, or when you killed someone you got the chance to loot an item off them. With all open world zones, including raid zones, and people fighting for those spots, it could take you up to a year to get a good piece of gear, only to lose it within a day.

Please quit equating real, hardcore PvP with games like Dark Age of Camelot.

I’m fine with you wanting a rank system you can grind out every day, and feel special, but don’t insult the real PvP games that came first by calling anything you do in the newer games, hardcore.

EQ was the most carebear thing ever unless you rolled specifically on a PvP server, in which case you’re pretty much on the same turf as a PvP server was in DAoC……

Adaneshade.2409:

EQ was the most carebear thing ever unless you rolled specifically on a PvP server, in which case you’re pretty much on the same turf as a PvP server was in DAoC……

lol……

Rallos Zek you could loot peoples coin, killing them ANYWHERE in the world, nothing was safe, and loot one piece of gear off their bodies.

DAoC gave you safe zones to PvE in, so you wouldn’t be ganked, and gave you objectives so you could zerg them.

Pretty much? You’ve got to be joking, right?

You’ve never experienced hardcore PvP until you’ve been perma blinded, perma rooted, perma snared, perma feared, and so on, or be on a raid boss, which were insanely hard to kill with smaller groups in EQ1, only to have another group come in, wipe you, and loot years worth of good gear.

<laughs> Pretty much the same?

You could LOSE LEVELS in EQ1 if someone, or a group of people killed you enough.

Heck, PvE was also MUCH harder brother. Anyone who remembers doing corpse runs long before they could be summoned knows this.

You mention PvE, as you should since EQ has always been known predominately as a PvE game….. PvE is what the term “carebear” refers to. It denotes the “let’s all get along” attitude of the cartoon characters. No one is saying EQ1 didn’t have the most epic PvE content ever; but aside form the small populace in that game that actually played on the PvP servers, PvE is what it was about. DAoC on the other hand was about the PvP, even the PvE was simply a means to improve your PvP game.

Either way, this discussion is in the WVW forum therefore based on DAoC’s RvR as stated by devs pre-realease even. They wanted to capture the spirit of RvR but have missed the mark in a few places which is what these players are pointing out to them.

For the record, I have nothing against EQ1….. despised EQ2, though (another cna of worms there), it was a great game, but it’s main focus never was the PvP.