Guild Wars 2

One thing that every person who regularly tries to get keeps and towers upgraded and supplied has to deal with is people taking supplies directly from a place that’s either upgrading or generally low on supplies, leading to situations where said place is under siege without defensive siege and without supplies to build them, or with fortify having blocked the upgrade queue for hours, preventing reinforcements per WP.

And by “has to deal with” I mean “has to helplessly observe”, as there seems to be no effective way to prevent abuse of resources that you worked to create by members your own team. Of course, you can try to reason with people, leading to pleasant conversations and supreme sportsmanship, such as (all but names in original):

Alya Lucis: please don’t take supplies from bay
<redacted>: blabla
<redacted>: need dayly
<Another Person>: then take from camp.
<redacted>: Dont dare telling me what to do, brat

Ah, with friends like this…

Sure, the new daily and the WxP for repairing have virtually solved the problem of things not getting repaired. They, however, substantially increased the already bad tragedy of commons that is tower and keep supply. This in turn has led to even fewer people buying upgrades. And unlike the repairing situation, which we solved with organising defensive guilds and coordinating friendlies, there’s little that we can currently do to change things.

And the situation is not limited to invdividual players, but includes examples such as a big WvW guild draining several hundreds of keep supply after an attack in a sitation where supply routes hadn’t even been secured and the keep was far from full to begin with. It would have had been better if they had simply left the walls for the defensive guilds to repair, who, after going on the long and stony trek to north camp from citadel and then porting back to the keep, were confronted with a fait accompli. Indeed, the draining guild would probably not have survived the whole of 30 seconds that took, making the action somewhat understandable.

Indeed, the exhaustion of the journey from the keep’s supply store to the broken doors appeared to have a profound effect on the guild, as it was not able to actually engage in the securing of said supply routes, wandering off to WxP-heavier targets instead, not before, however, commenting on how the keep’s supply will be filled soon again, once dolys start appearing, thus nullifying the effect of guild’s drainage. (Of course, as every child knows, dolys appear at their destination by magic (or was it elves? Hundreds of tiny elf mesmers portalling them? I forgot), in the same way finished upgrades appear in keeps and towers. No problem at all with taking that for granted.)

One way to improve things would be to track if supply carried by people came from a supply camp or a tower or keep and only give WxP and achievement credit for use of supply from the former, although I’d certainly prefer an improved way to manage tower and keep supply (not sure exactly how that would best work, but tracking people who upgraded or added buffs to a keep or escorted dolys there or built siege and allowing them some form of limited control over supply based on the amount they invested into the keep would be a great start to make defensive play less frustrating).

I thought Devon said that supplies taken from the keep would not give WXP when used to repair. I would think they could make it the same way for the daily.

I disagree that credit should only be given for using supply from a camp.

If you take an enemy keep or tower, with the intent of taking all their supply and then abandoning it, you should get bonus credit for effectively using enemy supply.

-ken

I think it may be a general flaw of the game that players are repairing things like this to begin with. The “use supply” / “don’t use supply” argument will never end. 10 years from now, if this game still exists, people will still argue over whether they should be using supply for repairs or not.

I’d rather address the root problem somehow. Like preventing players from doing repairs and making it something workers do automatically as long as there’s supply, and they only work when the fort is not under attack so they won’t just waste supply trying to repair a wall that’s being hit. You have to go shut down the attacking trebs before repairs can start.

For that matter, maybe fort supply should be untouchable except by workers and if you want to build siege you have to bring your own supply from the supply camps!

Change that daily to x yak escorts. pve’s help their server’s wvw effort and get daily without screwing over their server, win-win.

nothing.7941:

Change that daily to x yak escorts. pve’s help their server’s wvw effort and get daily without screwing over their server, win-win.

+1

/12chars

Ya. Happened to FA last night as well.

I agree about making Yak escorts be a daily. There’s your “XP” for doing escort missions — it’ll come from the daily reward.

Really it should be like “gather resources”. It’s just one of the daily options that’s ALWAYS there.

+1 for daily dolyak escort (as there is daily supply-dolyak slayer already it is only fair).
AND +1 for giving guild influence when finishing dolyak escort as it currently ONLY gives wvw-xp and that only IF the dolyak gets attacked and you defend it.

Edit: And the idea about repairs only to be done by workers is a valid thing to ponder about.

I like the idea of dolyak escorting being a daily.

But, I’ve noticed something about the current yak-ganking daily that comes up in the rotation from time to time. When you’re in a very lopsided match, and you own all the supply camps on a map, it can be hard to find enemy dolyaks to kill. Likewise, in a very lopsided match where you own no supply camps on the map, it can be hard to find a dolyak to escort. In the long run, Glicko-2 will ensure that lopsided matches don’t happen (that was a joke, haha, fat chance*) but dailies are about today.

It might be a good idea to make a daily dolyak mission where you have to either kill an enemy dolyak, or escort a friendly one. If you own all the camps, you can do the daily by escorting friendly yaks. But if you own none, you can still do the daily by killing enemy yaks. Essentially, this makes every dolyak you see a potential contributor to your daily: if it’s a friendly, escort it; if it’s an enemy, kill it. Either way counts.

-ken

> * If you don’t know where that’s from, I’m not going to spoil it for you. For the rest of you, yes, that’s where it’s from.

AndrewSX.3794:

nothing.7941:

Change that daily to x yak escorts. pve’s help their server’s wvw effort and get daily without screwing over their server, win-win.

+1

/12chars

+2

Slamz.5376:

I think it may be a general flaw of the game that players are repairing things like this to begin with. The “use supply” / “don’t use supply” argument will never end. 10 years from now, if this game still exists, people will still argue over whether they should be using supply for repairs or not.

I’d rather address the root problem somehow. Like preventing players from doing repairs and making it something workers do automatically as long as there’s supply, and they only work when the fort is not under attack so they won’t just waste supply trying to repair a wall that’s being hit. You have to go shut down the attacking trebs before repairs can start.

For that matter, maybe fort supply should be untouchable except by workers and if you want to build siege you have to bring your own supply from the supply camps!

I agree with this. The workers should be doing the repairs if the supply is available. It would lead to more turnover as some walls and doors would be in poor shape for a long time.

I also think we would have other issues to solve regarding this situation as well.

I assume workers would begin to repair after the first 3 minute timer was up and only be able to resume work as long as the wall or gate has not been taken down again in the mean time.

For me the number one most frustrating thing to watch is players continue to burn the supply in SMC on walls that are continuously being trebbed.

It makes me twitch.

Well I think it depends on the situation – having the ability to suddenly use your 1k+ supply in a keep or SM to repair an outter wall while you wipe the attacking zerg at inner is a huge plus.

I agree with other posters tho – the repair daily is not a great daily achievement. I believe it should be “Daily WvW Events” where you yak slap, escort, sentry flip, camp flip or zerg it up to cap/defend towers / keeps, also getting rid of the yak slap specific daily.

Personally more options to use the supply is better for defense as it lets commanders decide which strategy to use instead of forcing a defending commander to move to a camp to resupply. At the same time, the commander should be able to know when to use supply to stall / trap, and when to use it to build siege only.