Guild Wars 2

Repairing gates/walls very often leads to the demise of keeps/castles/towers. This kind of behavior should NOT be encouraged.

Post if you agree/disagree with this.

If we teach people when the right time to repair is, this isn’t a problem.

Lesson 1: don’t fix it as long as a treb is hitting it.

Knowledgeable players, and players who help educated create strong communities and make for strong teams.

I was getting 1 Wxp per 2 supply sinking into gates and walls, if I remember correctly.

If you’re repairing it just for the sake of the Wxp... just... I cannot express my feeling in words in such a way that will not get banhammered. But Mystic... jedi?... yeah MJ’s got the right idea.

Disagree.

Repairing is fine as long as people communicate and are situationally aware. A well-timed repair can turn the tide against even a well-organized group, and can be devastating for a scattered zerg that abandons their siege weapons. This is especially the case if the supply is taken from a nearby camp instead of from within a keep / tower.

Minimizing tactical solutions because some people use them incorrectly is like reducing viable build options – it punishes people who think more and caters to button mashers.

Say no dumbing down the game! Combat cookie cutter builds! Try new strategies! Mobilize the Moletariat!

Also, 2 WXP is hardly incentive. If you’re concerned about compulsive repairs, you might want to address the WvW repair daily quest option or WvW Technician / Fabricator Supply Use achievements instead.

Considering that you can pretty easily get 75 WXP (or 83 if outnumbered, which is as much as capturing a supply camp) alone for #1 spamming a weather node or giving 15 pearls to some Quaggans, 10 WXP for 10 Supply use is hardly what I’d called encouraging “bad” behavior.

Agree, it only takes one ‘me me me’ type, and there’s plenty of them in WvW, to waste supply on a wall that is gonna die anyway, and this pathetic wxp bonus encourages and rewards such behaviors, whilst people who rep walls because they need to don’t give a kitten about wxp for repping it.

WXP for repping walls/doors needs to be removed.

Excalibur.9748:

Repairing gates/walls very often leads to the demise of keeps/castles/towers.

So too does not repairing them.

I fully understand that the timing of repairs is a tactical decision, but many times I have seen, even on top tier servers, where a commander will lead his/her karma train onward for more bags and wxp and excitement and leave the gates/walls to be repaired by others, if they’re repaired at all. I’ve even heard it said in voice comm “the pugs will take care of this.” I have seen Garrison with damage to multiple walls and gates which could be repaired in minutes by the zerg, left to be fixed by a few, or one, or none. The zerg doesn’t care. Thankfully there are those who care enough to do that work when others don’t. At least some of those folks get fed up with doing thankless, forgotten/ignored tasks. WXP is at least some form of compensation for their care and effort.

Educate those who repair at inappropriate times, and, when it does need to be done, everyone should lend a hand and knock out the work right away, rather than abandon it.

(sorry if I sound bitter, but I have seen the other side of this coin many times and it’s very frustrating)

Given the very small amount of WXP it gives, and the generally tedious nature of repeatedly repairing a wall alone (I know; I’ve done it!), I don’t see it as being a big problem. The best way to repair damage is to get a group of people to run supplies from a camp, and if they get a bit of WXP for it, all the better. I can’t see a lot of people genuinely spending hour upon hour in WvW just to fix walls solely for WXP, it’d take…well, 5 WXP per 10 supply worth of repair means 1000 trips to repair a wall for one measly level?

I say keep the WXP for repairs. Doing the grunt work that sets the conditions for success should be rewarded.

Phlogus.2371:

I say keep the WXP for repairs. Doing the grunt work that sets the conditions for success should be rewarded.

It sets the conditions for failure just as often. It should deduct WXP in that case?

Just leave it neutral and not give any WXP.

Excalibur.9748:

Phlogus.2371:

I say keep the WXP for repairs. Doing the grunt work that sets the conditions for success should be rewarded.

It sets the conditions for failure just as often. It should deduct WXP in that case?

Just leave it neutral and not give any WXP.

So too does over zerging, such as when a 50-man zerg goes to take a camp and a paper tower while leaving their T3 keep totally un-watched, with little or no defensive siege built (and maybe a gate un-repaired.) Should those in the zerg not get any WXP or have it deducted if the zerg pulls too many people from other valuable tasks, or fails due to its/their bad decisions or bad play?

I don’t see a trivial WXP reward for repairing as big a problem as I see the alienation of a class of players who do the thankless dirty work of repairing, siege building, supply-line control, scouting, etc., as opposed to riding the “karma” train. Sometimes you gotta throw the dog a frickin’ bone, yo.

1 WXP per 2 supply shouldn’t have people repairing simply to get WXP. I think they just want the XP to level up in most cases.

BrockMcCleery.9562:

1 WXP per 2 supply shouldn’t have people repairing simply to get WXP. I think they just want the XP to level up in most cases.

Not really – if a camp is close and flush with supply – I will ALWAYS repair 3 times per siege cycle. I make little enough coin in WvW as it is – every little bit helps – and if I can make 10 silver before a wall goes down – then that’s 10 more silver that I can sink into a tower later!

**Edited to add…I STILL feel the structures claiming guild should have control over the supply – however this has been suggested over and over and has gone no where – so I don’t expect anything of it.

disagree.

if you cant get people to listen to you about reserving supplies… well maybe you need to act like a more respectable person. or kitten at them thru multiple chat channels.

1 wxp isnt a large enough incentive to tempt people to mindlessly sabotage their own objectives.

Ive seen players (not just pugs) empty a fully upgraded SMs supply into one (outer) wall whilst constantly being asked politely and eventually not so politely not to do so, so I completely agree.

insanemaniac.2456:

disagree.

if you cant get people to listen to you about reserving supplies… well maybe you need to act like a more respectable person. or kitten at them thru multiple chat channels.

1 wxp isnt a large enough incentive to tempt people to mindlessly sabotage their own objectives.

you must be new to the internet

slingblade.1437:

I have seen, even on top tier servers, where a commander will lead his/her karma train onward for more bags and wxp and excitement and leave the gates/walls to be repaired by others, if they’re repaired at all. I’ve even heard it said in voice comm “the pugs will take care of this.” I have seen Garrison with damage to multiple walls and gates which could be repaired in minutes by the zerg, left to be fixed by a few, or one, or none. The zerg doesn’t care. Thankfully there are those who care enough to do that work when others don’t. At least some of those folks get fed up with doing thankless, forgotten/ignored tasks. WXP is at least some form of compensation for their care and effort.

It’s even more infuriating when a karma train commander takes the time to use map chat after a successful defense to tell other players to repair as they roll out to flip sentries and camps. The repairs that can be completed in one or two trips by a karma train now becomes a 20-40 minute job if there’s one or two people willing to take on the task.

I think it’s a shame those players that are repairing when it’s appropriate aren’t rewarded more for those thankless, yet very necessary, tasks.

I have seen all of this happen many a time before the addition. This won’t change anything. I have also seen people NOT repair a tower or keep with full supply that is no longer under attack just as often.

But most often of all I see the zerg running off to capture things for their karma train and letting their other towers, even T3 towers, get captured.

So, why is it a threat to give the poor people who dedicate their time towards repairing walls for much lesser rewards than everyone else such a problem? That person could easily just as big a liability to their side in any other number of selfish ways. Like coasting with that zerg taking the other side of the map while all their territory near their keep gets taken? I’ve even seen those groups use the supply at the towers and keeps to continue their Karma train offensive.

If anything repairing needs a bigger reward like a separate event bonus for repairing the tower when it is not under attack as well.

sostronk.8167:

Ive seen players (not just pugs) empty a fully upgraded SMs supply into one (outer) wall whilst constantly being asked politely and eventually not so politely not to do so, so I completely agree.

theyd do it whether the wxp was there or not

The real problem is that player available supply and upgrade supply are one and the same. There needs to be separate “piles”, where players cannot take supply marked for upgrading towers/keeps.

Furthermore, the current one “pile” of supply actually goes against the fundamental GW2 design principal of anti-griefing.

Mif.3471:

There needs to be separate “piles”, where players cannot take supply marked for upgrading towers/keeps.

It was suggested more than a year ago in beta that claiming guilds be able to control supply – even shutting it off completely. Completely ignored then, and still being ignored now.

Well, let me share a story about this very topic that happened yesterday.

I was one of only two people that were repairing a North wall at SM, and setting up siege along the wall. It was getting hit, and at times taken out. At least 3 times the enemy zerg poured in.

Due to my siege installments, (and wall repairs) my side’s zerg was able to show up, and repel the attack. Instead of helping repair the wall after, or placing new siege, they just ran off to karma train the map. They didn’t care at all for setting up the infrastructure to keep SM, walls or siege.

What agitates me, is the gall of these self important twits….. to start abusing for these repairs. You have no right to abuse players by calling them out in chat, and private messages. You have no right to call a stop from doing anything that abides by the game rules and mechanics. Especially so, if your reason to do it is because it doesn’t fit into your lemming style of zerging across the map in search of easy WXP,EXP, and Karma.

If a player isn’t falling into your plan. Do something else. Go kill the Treb that’s hitting the walls. I know that it would kill your points/hour, but evolve rather than abuse.

I’m glad I took screenshots of the verbal abuse. It resulted in the removal of several of my own guild members, and hopefully will also result in a temporary or perm ban if support deems the abuse worthy of it (from my submitted reports). You people have no right to abuse players for not following your tactics. Period.

If anything walls should give more. Then maybe we can shake of the zerg train.

Yes it should. This is what everyone was asking for over and over…

Repairing is essential but also boring. As such, it most certainly should have a WXP reward attached.

Stupidity and/or sabotage will lead to the demise of keeps/castles/towers. WXP reward for repairs is entirely unrelated (repairing already gave exp and title progress). As such, stupidity isn’t a reason for not having good things.

If anything, supply from camps should give double WXP though seeing the lazy nerfs and buffs lately, I don’t think they could actually code it that way.

Zephyrus.9680:

…If anything, supply from camps should give double WXP…

This is a really good idea.

slingblade.1437:

Zephyrus.9680:

…If anything, supply from camps should give double WXP…

This is a really good idea.

Supply taken from camps should give wxp – Supply taken from keep/towers shouldn’t.

Firebaall.5127:

I hear you. We deal with this every single day. Ever since the wxp patch, respected and respectable guilds on the server has turned into seagulls from Finding Nemo.

The vast majority of our guildraids now disrespects any and all effort placed in upgrading, sieging and stocking keeps/towers.

I open map and I see no border owning their own towers or keeps. Why? Because defending does not give as much wxp as rolling over the same wooden tower/keep. And who wanna defend anything now anyway. 7-8 hours to upgrade and 30 sec free reign with no battle-marks.

Since the wxp patch all defensive play style has been diminished slowly. Not because we don’t enjoy it anymore but because we get insulted for hoping other could show some respect to our side of the game and not just seagull everything.

The past 2 weeks has been a nightmare, Piken has lost already 7 dedicated defenders and the ones still there is slowly on the way out.

You tell me you wanna play for fun.
I tell you I wanna play for fun.

My playstyle does not effect your fun.
Your playstyle ruins my fun.

WTB tactical thought and server pride plox!

Edit: I just have to add the link to a YT clip of it. Didn’t actually realize just how accurate this is until I watched it myself just now.

^^

lol. That video was like seeing Darkhaven commanders in action.

Tonight I was in that same Northern SM location, using the mortar on an incoming zerg. Below me was a lone player fixing the wall. Up comes a commander with his group of “mine mine mine” minions. They stood there for about 5 minutes berating the poor guy.

I finally had to shout, something to the effect of “Leave the poor guy alone”. “If you and your zerglings spent half the time you all just stood there yelling and humiliating the player, you could have gotten supply from our back camps”. “You’d have more supply here than he could ever use”.

In game reports for verbal abuse each and every time I see it happen.

Firebaall.5127:

^^

lol. That video was like seeing Darkhaven commanders in action.

Tonight I was in that same Northern SM location, using the mortar on an incoming zerg. Below me was a lone player fixing the wall. Up comes a commander with his group of “mine mine mine” minions. They stood there for about 5 minutes berating the poor guy.

I finally had to shout, something to the effect of “Leave the poor guy alone”. “If you and your zerglings spent half the time you all just stood there yelling and humiliating the player, you could have gotten supply from our back camps”. “You’d have more supply here than he could ever use”.

In game reports for verbal abuse each and every time I see it happen.

Ok, we have our fair share of egos, minions, zerglings and others who check in their brain at Citadel before entering a wvw map. But I have never seen a mental abuse of a player for repairing, or anything else for that matter. This is just .. wow.

Whats up with the random abuse anyway??

This is not an issue with game mechanics or zerg mentality. Good thing you tell them to stop, such attitude should never be tolarated and more should stop it!

Eliandal.8735:

Mif.3471:

There needs to be separate “piles”, where players cannot take supply marked for upgrading towers/keeps.

It was suggested more than a year ago in beta that claiming guilds be able to control supply – even shutting it off completely. Completely ignored then, and still being ignored now.

This would only make sense if it was limited to when the guild had buffs up.

You wouldn’t even need that if they did the obvious thing and let people drop off supplies. You balance that by having Dolyaks use the same supply as players, take lots of supply , no Dolyak shipments. Dolyak loads up, supply drops.

Players were the one who were very candid about wanting a reward for all our actions in WvW from doing mundane tasks to engaging enemies. ANET simply listened to us, that’s a good thing. I understand where you’re coming from, but in choosing between two evils…having WXP on structural repairs is the lesser one. It’s a matter of players listening and leaders leading, communication, etc. Besides, those who still repair and exhaust supplies unreasonably even when told not to will still do it anyway without WXP…you can’t teach someone who’s doesn’t want to be taught. Just my 2 cents.

Bananasmile.4126:

Besides, those who still repair and exhaust supplies unreasonably even when told not to will still do it anyway without WXP…you can’t teach someone who’s doesn’t want to be taught. Just my 2 cents.

Make kindly worded suggestion to those players in a PM, and leave it at that. It could be that’s what they want to do. If they want to fix a wall that’s being attacked, it’s their prerogative. They have no duty to follow your instruction on how to play.

I’d be more inclined to say, teach yourself. Go learn a new trick, like flanking the attack or god forbid go get that trebuchet.

If I waypoint to a fully stocked garrison that has supply lines up, grab 10 supply, and waypoint back to bay Then do that 20 more times, I want some credit for the mundane effort of fixing a gate at 10%

insanemaniac.2456:

disagree.

if you cant get people to listen to you about reserving supplies… well maybe you need to act like a more respectable person. or kitten at them thru multiple chat channels.

1 wxp isnt a large enough incentive to tempt people to mindlessly sabotage their own objectives.

Yes yes because yelling at people who are just acting selfishly and don’t care about the overall effect of their actions will totally listen to you. RRRiiiigggghhhhtttt.

Get rid of this wxp for repairing rubbish.

Hematuria.4051:

If I waypoint to a fully stocked garrison that has supply lines up, grab 10 supply, and waypoint back to bay Then do that 20 more times, I want some credit for the mundane effort of fixing a gate at 10%

You get xp. I’m sorry your server is so horrid and doesn’t just all go do it quickly together at once. However, that doesn’t mean there aren’t other things going with this mechanic which have the potential to hurt the game.

Mysticjedi.6053:

Lesson 1: don’t fix it as long as a treb is hitting it.

This is a generalization.

If you are confident that you will lose the tower/keep, it is very important to drain the supply. Repairing walls is often a great way to accomplish this – even if they are still trebbing it. It also delays them, which will hurt them if they intend to extend through the tower/keep.

But it would be impossible to explain this to a PUG

Elementalist Owner.7802:

Mysticjedi.6053:

Lesson 1: don’t fix it as long as a treb is hitting it.

This is a generalization.

If you are confident that you will lose the tower/keep, it is very important to drain the supply. Repairing walls is often a great way to accomplish this – even if they are still trebbing it. It also delays them, which will hurt them if they intend to extend through the tower/keep.

But it would be impossible to explain this to a PUG

Yep. Repair is not a black-and-white decision and your opinion of when to/not to repair should evolve as you learn more about the game. Of course there will always be a few selfish players who don’t even care what impact it might have on the server, but that also applies to a lot of the zerglings. You don’t need 60 people to take supply camps and flip vacant, paper towers and keeps, but it happens all the time, and those people are rewarded for a massive misallocation of manpower.

Zajo.5946:

Supply taken from camps should give wxp – Supply taken from keep/towers shouldn’t.

There are situations where it is bad to take from a supply camp as well, for instance when trying to upgrade for supplying towers and keeps or help defend a supply camp you will be using and camping for awhile in a Keep siege when there are other easily available sources of supplies.

Just like everything else in WvW supplies are a nuanced and complicated thing.

Repairing/Building should be rewarded. It’s has value and takes time. I’m happy they included this feature.

I do understand the frustration though. A couple of times, I myself, have become a cap monster in chat when people are wasting supply on walls. It’s one a specific instance I’m thinking of. Where not repairing the wall is of great tactical significance. I always give several mentions in advance that this is coming, Never do I call out an individual on it. That’s just outright rude.

For Guilds claiming and thus controlling supply, no please. Bigger Guilds bully the rest already in WvW. We need mechanism’s to remove Guilds dominating the server. We’re all supposed to be one world in there. I wish guild tags weren’t even shown in WvW. A lot of elitism and negativity would end right there.

The way I see it

It is left to the very few to fix and repair after an attack. I spend hours each day doing this. I previously got no reward for running to north camp and returning to garrison. What I get now pales into insignificance compared to running with the zerg. All to often it is the zerg that drains the supply not the repairers. Leave us with the crumbs off the table at least. Defenders watchers and siege builders get very little in this game yet the zerg soon complains if nothing is built. There is an assumption that someone else will do it but it is too lowly a task for the almighty zerg to put a few seconds into. Get over it and leave us with a small reward for fixing the stuff you did not leave scouts in to watch and call out.