Guild Wars 2

Hi. Seeing ANet is interested in WvW, I’d like to start this topic

First quetion: why? Sometimes I spend 1h to get some tower ready, spending money and time, and in reward it becomes my prison – refreshing it is a pain and I can’t always count on others to do it. Is it to save server space or something? If so, how does it work if all get refreshed anyway?
What about other options? Longer duration for superior siege? Longer duration in general? Or maybe siege limit is enough?

How else are you meant to try to stop siege capping?

What do you mean? I’m talking about refreshing siege so it doesn’t despawn after 30 mins. As much as it’s not problem with offensive siege, it hurts to keep all the ACs in keep up for whole week.

Le Rooster.8715:

How else are you meant to try to stop siege capping?

Easy, in order to despawn after a given time the game must know when it want placed.
So what should be done is when the siege cap is reached, any siege placed over this limit should cause the oldest siege weapon to despawn.

This is a simple solution, but it also causes a bigger problem; several servers still feel the need to have spies on rival servers, and some of these spies like to drain supply from a fully stocked keep by either starting an upgrade or placing useless siege.
So that means these spies can completed empty out a keep by building siege using this method.

The real problem is that WvW is being neglected by the devs if you ask me, and as WvW is the only thing quite a few of us do, if things do not improve I know more players will be moving on to other games.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Le Rooster.8715:

How else are you meant to try to stop siege capping?

Easy, in order to despawn after a given time the game must know when it want placed.
So what should be done is when the siege cap is reached, any siege placed over this limit should cause the oldest siege weapon to despawn.

This is a simple solution, but it also causes a bigger problem; several servers still feel the need to have spies on rival servers, and some of these spies like to drain supply from a fully stocked keep by either starting an upgrade or placing useless siege.
So that means these spies can completed empty out a keep by building siege using this method.

The real problem is that WvW is being neglected by the devs if you ask me, and as WvW is the only thing quite a few of us do, if things do not improve I know more players will be moving on to other games.

So you build 100 arrowcarts in some remote location and all their siege weapons go poof?
You sit on an arrowcart, raining down hell on an opponent, someone puts down another AC next to you and your own AC despawns?
ridiculous

A solution would be, tho, to despawn the one which was unused the longest.

Agree with the OP. A tower or even worse, a keep becomes your prison, where all you do is run circles refreshing the siege.

Buuuuuuut, the rams used 32 hours ago to take the keep still stands ..

Yes have a timer but change it to two hours. 30 min is just silly.

Why should siege be capped?

Don’t do that, then? Nobody is asking or forcing you to..it’s not even particularly effective.

You’re trying to fight the game design and mechanics just to do something that nobody really cares about.

The siege you dro kitten upposed to be disposable and temporary…permanent upgrades to structures are meant to happen through the upgrade system. Allowing your siege to last hours without interaction allows you to override/bypass the normal upgrade system.

Also, the devs have no desire to promote keep camping. Nor do the vast majority of players….if they take the time to think it through. If sitting in keeps waiting becomes the best/effective/only way to defend…. everybody loses.

Zosk.5609:

Don’t do that, then? Nobody is asking or forcing you to..it’s not even particularly effective.

You’re trying to fight the game design and mechanics just to do something that nobody really cares about.

The siege you dro kitten upposed to be disposable and temporary…permanent upgrades to structures are meant to happen through the upgrade system. Allowing your siege to last hours without interaction allows you to override/bypass the normal upgrade system.

Also, the devs have no desire to promote keep camping. Nor do the vast majority of players….if they take the time to think it through. If sitting in keeps waiting becomes the best/effective/only way to defend…. everybody loses.

I do it because I like to do things I feel are helping with winning.
Idk where you play, but even in my T7 it’s normal to have some siege always ready. Even if server X had ppl already in keep (T3 one) and server Y attacked it with 3-4 superior rams, it’s not enough time to set up proper siege. Hell, it’s normal to cap towers/keeps with full siege, the ones without are just karma farm. Unless I have official Dev response, saying siege is not meant to be in keep before it gets attacked, I’ll never belive it.
Also, siege costs badges and you use supplies from camp for it. Upgrades cost money and it eats supplies from tower/keep. I don’t see “overriding/bypassing”, or any other conflict of interests here.

Zosk.5609:

Don’t do that, then? Nobody is asking or forcing you to..it’s not even particularly effective.

You’re trying to fight the game design and mechanics just to do something that nobody really cares about.

Do you even play WvW? It’s very effective, and people definitely care about siege in their keeps

Zosk.5609:

The siege you dro kitten upposed to be disposable and temporary…permanent upgrades to structures are meant to happen through the upgrade system. Allowing your siege to last hours without interaction allows you to override/bypass the normal upgrade system.

Except the normal upgrade system and siege have nothing to do with each other. They are two seperate things, that both increase the defense of a tower/keep

Zosk.5609:

Also, the devs have no desire to promote keep camping. Nor do the vast majority of players….if they take the time to think it through. If sitting in keeps waiting becomes the best/effective/only way to defend…. everybody loses.

Now you are actually arguing in favor of the OP. The OP wanted to remove or increase the 30 min timer, so that he didn’t have to do keep camping anymore.

I’d say the fact that dropped player siege times out aggressively and that they’ve implemented an alternate system for permanent upgrades to the set pieces is a pretty good indication of their intentions.

Not to get all meta about it..but games like this almost ALWAYS try to minimize the effectiveness of keep camping… it’s because keep-camping creates lose-lose situations where the majority of people don’t have fun…while active offense and defense creates lots of win-win situations where the attackers get either points OR a fight OR both.

IOW, the devs have no good reason to promote the dropping of tons of pro-active siege everywhere and the fact you have to game the system by “refreshing” it just shows how much time you’re willing to waste jamming square pegs into round holes.

urzen.7096:

Why should siege be capped?

Balance and performance, mostly.

also, not having a cap would open the door to insane levels of griefing.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

urzen.7096:

Why should siege be capped?

Balance and performance, mostly.

also, not having a cap would open the door to insane levels of griefing.

The real reason for siege cap:

Here is how the despawn should be:

Rams: 10 minute despawn, they don’t need to be out any longer than that

ACs/ballistas/catapults/Trebs: no despawn, they stay till destroyed

Golems: 2 hour despawn, any longer and every server will just pile up a hundred golems in the spawn to nightcap the others, and any less than 2 hours is just ridiculous

30 minute despawn ruins the game worse than anything else ppl complain about. 30 minutes in the game feels like 30 seconds.

30 minutes is sort of a pain. At least let us see a refresh timer for each piece of siege or let us hit up an NPC in the tower to refresh all the siege in there. Better yet, let me pay an NPC 10 silver to refresh all the siege in the tower for the next 4 hours.

Can’t they limit siege despawning to siege out of keeps? Like if you place defensive siege in a keep it stays? Maybe also put the timer on rams in keeps, to counter the trolls.

Someone told me the siege in the main keeps doesn’t despawn… Otherwise, how would bots place so many siege weapons on top of npcs to drain your supply and they could last several days at least (not every npc gets talked to regularly so every piece can’t be ticked every 30 mins).

One of the solutions would be to limit WHAT siege that can be placed.

- Only balistas and ACs are allowed in towers & keeps.
- Rams are only allowed in front of a gate.

This would be the normal use for warsiege, but people use them differently because of the odd gaming mechanisms, like catapults shooting through walls and the towerrs standing so close to the keeps that they can treb each other.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

urzen.7096:

Why should siege be capped?

Balance and performance, mostly.

also, not having a cap would open the door to insane levels of griefing.

If someone wants to spend money, time and supply spawning siege I have no problem with it. There is the problem of spies, but one thing you could do is increase the cost of siege, the amount to build it, and limit ram placement to gates only as well as prevent overlapping.

Azure Prower.8701:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

urzen.7096:

Why should siege be capped?

Balance and performance, mostly.

also, not having a cap would open the door to insane levels of griefing.

The real reason for siege cap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KztvINdeJuo

Again, that only because seiege is cheap. It should be much more expensive to make it more valuable.

Maladon.5760:

30 minutes is sort of a pain. At least let us see a refresh timer for each piece of siege or let us hit up an NPC in the tower to refresh all the siege in there. Better yet, let me pay an NPC 10 silver to refresh all the siege in the tower for the next 4 hours.

I do love this idea, a worker to refresh siege would be awesome. That way the devs are happy for their servers and we are happy because we don’t have to camp our siege and we don’t have to remind others to refresh. To combat silly spies, a way to pick-up and replace siege maybe?

Tallis.5607:

One of the solutions would be to limit WHAT siege that can be placed.

- Only balistas and ACs are allowed in towers & keeps.
- Rams are only allowed in front of a gate.

This would be the normal use for warsiege, but people use them differently because of the odd gaming mechanisms, like catapults shooting through walls and the towerrs standing so close to the keeps that they can treb each other.

Bad idea.

I recently had a very nice tower defense cause I was using a catapult in the middle of the tower ground to shoot over the wall at incoming enemies and their siege. I don’t see why this shouldn’t be allowed. The fact that they can aoe pushback through a door is stupid, but that’s a seperate issue which can be fixed in another way.

Also trebs shooting a keep from a tower is fine, afaik that’s even the only use for trebs atm. If trebs were excluded from towers, they’d be useless, cause in the open field it’s faster / cheaper to use catas.