Guild Wars 2

Thresher.3049:

If I can offer some support in regards to that, it is important to encourage an attitude in your own guild, then to others to stick it out through the tough times. Pragmatism with the server hopping is something of a mixed blessing- sometimes you get a few gems, other times you get a bag of brick’s around your neck that seem to want to drown you!

But, as long as there is a ‘core’ of original people on the server willing to commit, it does make a difference, just don’t expect it to be easy, there will be tears and you will cop a flogging every now and then which makes anyone go ’ah jez… wtf was that!"

On a personal level.
Talent gets you a little way in, but I know tonnes of talented nobodies.
Ability will get you some peer credibility, but often it doesn’t shine past the moment
Persistence… counts for everything.
Being the guy(s) that never, ever, give up is what gets the job done at the end of the week. Encourage it in yourself, your guild and your server.

there is no solution Thresher, Blackgate of all servers should know considering the only way you guys revived your server was getting a MASS TRANSFER of guilds

that’s the entire point and crux of it. it’s not like fresh players rose up and revived a server. i’ve been thinking about this long and hard and you just do not get fresh players

it’s transfers. really the only servers who are constant and are identical. brothers almost is

Stormbluff Isle and Isle of Janthir

SBI has gotten a good influx but really they have solid loyal guilds who are that servers foundations such as the Korean War Machine guild.

I know personally when i thought of leaving janthir what made it extremely tough is knowing how loyal our own Koreans are (Never Die).

ultimately, no matter what happens to janthir, i think i’d rather quit the game than transfer off. speciall at the state of wuvwuv where there’s no actual rewards for winning or losing so that takes the sting out of “losing” a little.

the quickest fix though is fighting in a tier we belong in. tier 2 ain’t it. tier 3 at best, tier 4 realistically so “we can get some morale” back.

that’s the problem. janthir needs morale bigtime after losing half our playerbase, we simply need to get some morale back but tarnished coast and/or fort aspenwood cannot seem to kick us out of this god forsaken tier

sigh

Agree with Charlieprince. the sub numbers reached its peak months ago, I doubt it will increase.

Also word of mouth rules the day. The average consumer buys prebuilt systems at retail chains like Best Buy, etc. Most find out through others playing GW2 and so forth the game has hefty system requirements and will either stay away or realize investing in another CPU, Video card after forking down $$$ for a prebuilt is not worth it to run GW2 properly and the disk will just become a cup coaster.

One of the reasons WOW became so popular was peeps could run the game adequately on average pre built systems out of the box.

scootshoot.6583:

Agree with Charlieprince. the sub numbers reached its peak months ago, I doubt it will increase.

Also word of mouth rules the day. The average consumer buys prebuilt systems at retail chains like Best Buy, etc. Most find out through others playing GW2 and so forth the game has hefty system requirements and will either stay away or realize investing in another CPU, Video card after forking down $$$ for a prebuilt is not worth it to run GW2 properly and the disk will just become a cup coaster.

One of the reasons WOW became so popular was peeps could run the game adequately on average pre built systems out of the box.

subs :P hehe that’s funny

a lot of things play into it as well. Halo 4, Planetside 2. WoW 5.1. Star Wars free 2 play. Holiday Season. etc etc

the reason GW2’s players are decreasing every day is there is so many other things going on.

HOWEVER, GW2’s strength is the fact that there is NO subscription fee so who knows maybe activity will pick up again in the future

maybe

CharliePrince.2071:

IoJ already lost its oceanics

it’s sad you don’t even know the state of the servers you fight

IoJ is a TIER 4 server. Tier 3 at best. We’ve lost so many guilds that frankly we’re HoD/ET level right now except for the fight in whoever is left

and your statement is sad, because if you think about it

if everyone transferred off

we’d all end up in the same server

pathetic so-called “pvp’ers” but is actually reality

people only want to stack up on a server, very rarely do you actually have people staying where they are and suffering thru the beatdowns

sad but true

transfer off! everyone just transfer away!! that’s the magic bullet

Could you stop being negative plz?

As an oceanic time player(I’m from Korea), I still see tons of enthusiastic players/guilds/commanders in oceanic/asian prime time. Usually we barely hold IoJ bl and EBG but often we play pretty offensive in SoR or BG bl. I believe IoJ’s oceanic wvw presence is still 5th strongest among all servers even though we lost some guilds.

and you know what..? nobody minds outmanned buff, commanders and their force always tend to help other borderlands in trouble (you’d be surprised how quickly our reinforcement arrived and saved Overlook when the lord down by massive BG force with golems last night) , we just enjoy fighting every night in IoJ style and we are so tough!

We deserve T2. (in reality t2.5 might be correct but t3 at best? no way… -.-)

So basically what you’re all saying is: IoJ welcome to SoR, JQ/TC or SoS/SBI we’ll see you week after next.

Actually, in all seriousness now, I think I could dig IoJ’ers coming over. They been a good fight quite frankly when they’re out.

My bad with the subs…habit with mmo’s, lol but you got the gist of my response

lol

CharliePrince.2071:

there is no solution Thresher, Blackgate of all servers should know considering the only way you guys revived your server was getting a MASS TRANSFER of guilds

that’s the entire point and crux of it. it’s not like fresh players rose up and revived a server. i’ve been thinking about this long and hard and you just do not get fresh players

I have an insight into that, having been on Blackgate since the pre-release days and spent 90% of my time in WvW, the server has usually had one or more people, (even before it was launched!) waving the flag as part of a campaign to have ‘players’ come here that want to be active in WvW. If they bring a guild, that’s great, but otherwise you’ll have a “home” here and the server’s wvw community by and large will support you if you choose to run into battle with them.
Lot of people call them ‘pugs’ but its not necessarily complimentary term, ‘Militia’ is actually probably a much better description and there are a large amount on the server that as individuals and a collective group, pull a lot of weight for the following reasons:
- Server Pride
- They never left
- They work with their server mates

People will always come and go, be distracted by the moronic filthiness that is PvE to grind for gear for a time (boy, did we feel the shortage too!). But scratch past the shininess of the more noticeable guilds, all the BS of haters and chest thumping that goes on; there is a large core of people which have kept the place going through the worst of times.
Those people deserve a lot of credit for their dedication, fighting, waving the flag for recruiting and not just the new arrivals.

On a holistic level, I’ve seen it run the gamut of ups and downs from being 1st tier, to 3rd and back up, down and eventually where we are now. Ultimately, those “downs” cleared out a lot of the wannabes, fairies and try-babies, made the core of the server tougher, better to where it is now.
Because like many, at some point I made a decision to have some guts and stick it out, grabbing your junk and running for perceived security of a “better” server at the first sign of a bad times… doesn’t actually fix the ‘problem’!
I don’t need a “better” server, because this is MY server…

Blackgate don’t listen to what people say about this or that. Your server is just as relentless as IoJ. I am beyond frustrated with you people lol. . Go to sleep already!!! lol.

IoJ you were almost wiped off the map and now I see red again. Holy mother of determination. I have gained a whole new respect for your server today. Good on you guys!! Keep fighting!!

SPQR – The republic guild leader laffingseals insulting small guilds on SOR server wow just childish he tried to recruit me into his guild last week but I refused I guess he couldn’t get any new members too so his solution is to insult the smaller guilds saying their useless and what not. You are wrong small guilds can organize and take camps for a server you don’t need 30+ zergs to take a camp I don’t know about you guys but I’m leaving this server tired of him and his guild insulting players just cause people won’t join his tactic-less guild.

Do you really want to know why I won’t join your guild ?? You guys have no tactics your tactics consist of zerging towers thats not a tactic when I rolled with your guild for that night you guys couldn’t even take sunnyhills from 10 blackgate defenders it was pathetic honestly 30+SPQR againts 10 bg defenders ?? Sad…I’m glad I didn’t join your guild.

Blackgate I hear you guys respect your pugs/militia and smaller guilds you guys have room for a pug that upgrades keeps, run supplies and drops sieges for everyone to use ?? I wouldn’t mind joining one of your guilds too as long as I get to smash SPQR guild I would be happy.

@ all the uninformed people saying that IoJ’s Oceanic presence left for JQ. That was a total of 2 guilds… thats it, and not even very large guilds (max of 4-8 groups in WvW on a good night. (20-40 players)

There are still strong IoJ Oceanic guilds in IoJ, so drop the blame game on us, infact every night this week (Oceanic) IoJ has taken first place in potential points (hmmm I got vid, so i can easily get some screenshots there for our Oceanic doubters…)

Back to better subjects, to all the Oceanics on BG and SoR, some epic battles this week, keep it up!!

Please don’t take VR off of SoR. I love you guys.

Indo.8629:

Having 24 servers, with majority of them empty or half empty in WvW doesn’t make sense. Stack the top 9 servers and go at it.

which is why it makes no sense that our WvW server is tied at all to our PVE server. two completely separate things that would each benefit from having one removed from the other with little to no drawback. a bit off-topic but i bring it up because i feel a fundamental change to the system is better than asking everyone to flood from one server to the other.

i doubt Anet will fundamentally change anything though so i guess we do what we can to make a failed design idea work as best as possible.

At the end of the day, the points system is a reasonably appropriate measure of your ability to well … hold stuff and get points.

While it might be less stress and more giggles to drop to tier 3 and faceroll, to put it simplistically, if you’re in Tier 2 its because you are better at doing that than Tier 3 and worse than Tier 1. There’s no point in fussing over who has/lost which guilds.

I left IOJ about a week ago due to my guild transfering (5-8 players) to join some other oceanics on JQ ..Now in saying that i personally feel it was a big mistake ..there are massive gaps on JQ that are probably worse than what IOJ was 2 weeks ago ..Im sorta sick of how we try and get full coverage on what ever server we transfer to just to find we are always in the same boat as before ..IOJ was by far the best server i’ve been on and it really upsets me now that im not apart of it anymore ..I Hate the Way JQ plays sometimes i find them cowardely at times other times there maybe a particular guild / commander that really do JQ justice but i think of IOJ Pugs and there heart and there strength and i truly miss it .. All i can say is hang in there IOJ’ers as i will be saying my piece within my guild as i Want to come back HOME to IOJ ..

I didn’t know IoJ was bleeding players. If anything that makes me respect them more ;p I mean you guys have been T2 forever.

Saitohz.3109:

Blackgate I hear you guys respect your pugs/militia and smaller guilds you guys have room for a pug that upgrades keeps, run supplies and drops sieges for everyone to use ?? I wouldn’t mind joining one of your guilds too as long as I get to smash SPQR guild I would be happy.

Wow that’s kind of a brutal opinion of fellow players. BG works with many small guilds, their contributions are very much appreciated.

Please dont listen to charlieprince. I swear you wouldnt think he is actually from IoJ with the way he puts the server down. Our main timeslot is still oceanic, where we lost the most was our EU coverage. Which is why at 5est we start sucking bad. As far as being anything less than a t2 server i say hell no. We are still putting in kitten good fights and considering it is tuesday and only about 10k short of first it is a huge boost in confdence. If we we got some more EU and NA coverage we could make a push for higher placing.

All of these blackgate are now guilty of cheating. This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.

This is why we can’t have nice things

if only we could drop punt them back over the wall…..

They find the secret treb attack throwing asura over keep walls?

@coldviper.6794

I remember saying they hacked inside our Bay and ‘Brown Rogue’ was saying they hid a mesmer in there for 5 hours LOL. Even though I watched the guy hack his way in…

awesome mesmer illusion ability making it Look like he flew over the wall when he was there the whole time!

IoJ to me has been fantastic so far. I enjoy putting together militias and commanding those kind of groups. Its been stellar and everyone with me has tried and I’ve had a blast. I try to make sure everyone can have fun and I think although Tier 1 is top, that so far Tier 2 is healthier.

There is a Tier 1 saturation where the action is so intense either a player will have total have or have no fun whatsoever.

Welcome to December! Holiday Steam deals, The Holiday Season. New games coming out, people going through finals, a busy and hectic month! Of course the population is going to be suffering. I just prefer to be down to earth and play for the fun of it all.

Anyhow…I play for the Quality of Battle and Quality of Experience. I care about PP for the server itself, but I’d much rather have each player logging off under my command to go through a good experience to walk away with something good. If that happens, then I feel I’ve done my part for people and their morale.

Coldviper.6794:

All of these blackgate are now guilty of cheating. This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.

Calling out an entire server for cheating based on the supposed actions of what could have been one, or only a few people who were actually involved, is misplaced and incorrect. Keep in mind that if a player sees “take the portal” in chat, they likely will, without any idea of where it’s going or how it got there.

Like all servers, BG doesn’t condone cheating and takes reports of it happening seriously. I’ll make sure someone that has the ability to look into this sees your post and screenshot. Your shot doesn’t necessarily prove anything (screenshots rarely do) but at least it’s something to go on. If indeed some form of exploit took place, I’m personally sorry it happened.

Liquid.9672:

Coldviper.6794:

All of these blackgate are now guilty of cheating. This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.

Calling out an entire server for cheating based on the supposed actions of what could have been one, or only a few people who were actually involved, is misplaced and incorrect. Keep in mind that if a player sees “take the portal” in chat, they likely will, without any idea of where it’s going or how it got there.

Like all servers, BG doesn’t condone cheating and takes reports of it happening seriously. I’ll make sure someone that has the ability to look into this sees your post and screenshot. Your shot doesn’t necessarily prove anything (screenshots rarely do) but at least it’s something to go on. If indeed some form of exploit took place, I’m personally sorry it happened.

Especially considering you haven’t seen IoJ or BG smearing all of SoR because of a certain guild that has been hacking the past 2 weeks into IoJ and BG keeps.

Liquid.9672:

Coldviper.6794:

All of these blackgate are now guilty of cheating. This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.

Calling out an entire server for cheating based on the supposed actions of what could have been one, or only a few people who were actually involved, is misplaced and incorrect. Keep in mind that if a player sees “take the portal” in chat, they likely will, without any idea of where it’s going or how it got there.

Like all servers, BG doesn’t condone cheating and takes reports of it happening seriously. I’ll make sure someone that has the ability to look into this sees your post and screenshot. Your shot doesn’t necessarily prove anything (screenshots rarely do) but at least it’s something to go on. If indeed some form of exploit took place, I’m personally sorry it happened.

While I would usually agree with you, (and I am currently on blackgate) if you look in his screenshot you can see that almost everyone there is from the same guild as this supposed mesmer. While normally you cant fault a zerg for taking a portal (You will never see 50 people stop to ask “hang on mate, is this portal legit?” before entering) you can probably assume that most of these guild members knew the portal was going to be inside the keep, whether they knew how it got in there cant be determined, but I know if one of my guilds mesmers told me he had a portal inside a keep with all gates and walls up the first words id be saying would be “Ha, nice, howd you get inside?” and if I didnt like his answer i’d be sure to investigate and kick him immediately if there was any foul play.

^ he also said These blackgate, as in those in the picture (same guild as mentioned above). So he actually didn’t call out the whole server for hacking…

Moaning Marv.2194:

^ he also said These blackgate, as in those in the picture (same guild as mentioned above). So he actually didn’t call out the whole server for hacking…

He said “This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.” That is calling out the whole server.

ok you got me there, i just read the above quote saying “these etc etc guilty of cheating.”

Here we go. Almost made it through the week without drama and finger pointing.
In before threadlock.

Saitohz.3109:

SPQR – The republic guild leader laffingseals insulting small guilds on SOR server wow just childish he tried to recruit me into his guild last week but I refused I guess he couldn’t get any new members too so his solution is to insult the smaller guilds saying their useless and what not. You are wrong small guilds can organize and take camps for a server you don’t need 30+ zergs to take a camp I don’t know about you guys but I’m leaving this server tired of him and his guild insulting players just cause people won’t join his tactic-less guild.

Sad to hear he did that. If I were you, I’d give SoR another chance and just put him on block. It seem’s as if he is 1 person, and I’ve never even seen him before. Rather not lose a good WvW’er due to someone who was being rude to people.

SoR does respect the non guilded members, or people in small guilds. Run around with myself, miasmic, Knight, Jack Lowland, Alpaca Owl, Indo, Thais, or many more, and you’ll see we “thank” them more then anything. Also you are welcome to come on TS and be with all of us, along with Fate, TW, and more.

So um… pretty big difference from the +0 points I saw on here earlier. Way to never give up guys.

I haven’t seen Blackgate or IoJ cheat or hack this week. It could of happened or could be a misunderstanding. Let’s not turn this thread into all the others where we start shouting cheater’s, hackers, exploiters etc IoJ/BG and SoR have had a lot of fun this week in W3. BG really stepped it up today, to the point where SoR even started turning negative against each other.
Sometimes our perspective changes when we are frustrated and angry. EB today is a prime example, no matter how hard we tried, no matter how much seige we built, no matter how much we upgraded we just couldn’t gain ground against BG.
Let’s not let our anger and frustration cloud our judgement.
You can’t stop hackers, cheaters and exploiters. Calling a whole server those names is unfair. They can’t help it if they have a few that choose to play the game in that manner.
BG and IoJ it has been a blast to play against you this week, all servers have come out of the gate swinging. Keep the fights going!

Sweetevil.9208:

I haven’t seen Blackgate or IoJ cheat or hack this week. It could of happened or could be a misunderstanding. Let’s not turn this thread into all the others where we start shouting cheater’s, hackers, exploiters etc IoJ/BG and SoR have had a lot of fun this week in W3. BG really stepped it up today, to the point where SoR even started getting negative against each other.
Sometimes our perspective changes when we are frustrated and angry. EB today is a prime example, no matter how hard we tried, no matter how much seige we built, no matter how much we upgraded we just couldn’t gain ground against BG.
Let’s not let our angry and frustration cloud our judgement.
You can’t stop hackers, cheaters and exploiters. Calling a whole server those names is unfair. They can’t help it if they have a few that choose to play the game in that manner.
BG and IoJ it has been a blast to play against you this week, all servers have come out of the gate swinging. Keep the fights going!

I agree, thanks for your well reasoned post.

Little white afro asura from Icoa is the most guilty though I have spotted at least 3 other mes doing it. (since I cant see his name any more I cant very well report his name) But I have no respect for Icoa guild. He has beened reported about 100 times at the very least in the last hour so with any luck Anet will be able to sort him out.

I know for a fact those were running with him were well aware of his actions as they actually tried to distract us while he did it. In any case the way this is being done has also been reported by many people and I expect anet to fix it (hopefully soon)

Now… we can keep talking about how cheap they are being or we can discuss more interesting topics. How about them bears?

SoR/BG/IoJ more like SoR vs BG & IoJ

Coldviper.6794:

All of these blackgate are now guilty of cheating. This server apparently have no self respect taking advantage of these ports coming exploiting mesmers. Pathetic blackgate, pathetic.

All of us on Blackgate are accused of cheating? Yet, 90% of Blackgate wasn’t on when this incident happened when you have poor proof except for people saying they saw an Asura fly hacking.

A lot of people resort to accusing people of cheating when they cannot explain something. We’ve all done it before. I’m not denying or admiting to anything simply because I wasn’t there, but if you’re going to accuse every single person on a server of cheating you better have some kitten proof. Your picture shows nothing.

Saitohz.3109:

SPQR – The republic guild leader laffingseals insulting small guilds on SOR server wow just childish he tried to recruit me into his guild last week but I refused I guess he couldn’t get any new members too so his solution is to insult the smaller guilds saying their useless and what not. You are wrong small guilds can organize and take camps for a server you don’t need 30+ zergs to take a camp I don’t know about you guys but I’m leaving this server tired of him and his guild insulting players just cause people won’t join his tactic-less guild.

Do you really want to know why I won’t join your guild ?? You guys have no tactics your tactics consist of zerging towers thats not a tactic when I rolled with your guild for that night you guys couldn’t even take sunnyhills from 10 blackgate defenders it was pathetic honestly 30+SPQR againts 10 bg defenders ?? Sad…I’m glad I didn’t join your guild.

Blackgate I hear you guys respect your pugs/militia and smaller guilds you guys have room for a pug that upgrades keeps, run supplies and drops sieges for everyone to use ?? I wouldn’t mind joining one of your guilds too as long as I get to smash SPQR guild I would be happy.

Shorthand:
Yes, I believe smaller guilds are ineffective in wvw. That’s a crime?
You’ve never ran with us.
www.youtube.com/user/trguild1 , let me know how much of that is fail vs smaller numbers. If any fail you see, it would be us being outnumbered.

Enjoy your new server! Instead of complaining and talking out of your rear, make a guild that matters in WvW. Do work for it so it can flip point output. Ohh big whoop, you posted on the forums for attention.

a small group of people is only useless if they aren’t utilized properly. with proper communication and teamwork any group of people can be useful.

anyone who disagrees is simply oblivious as to how to properly achieve such a thing or selling something. (like membership to their guild)

The mesmer on Black Gate from ICoa should stop exploiting to get into DB.

Saitohz.3109:

SPQR – The republic guild leader laffingseals insulting small guilds on SOR server wow just childish he tried to recruit me into his guild last week but I refused I guess he couldn’t get any new members too so his solution is to insult the smaller guilds saying their useless and what not. You are wrong small guilds can organize and take camps for a server you don’t need 30+ zergs to take a camp I don’t know about you guys but I’m leaving this server tired of him and his guild insulting players just cause people won’t join his tactic-less guild.

Do you really want to know why I won’t join your guild ?? You guys have no tactics your tactics consist of zerging towers thats not a tactic when I rolled with your guild for that night you guys couldn’t even take sunnyhills from 10 blackgate defenders it was pathetic honestly 30+SPQR againts 10 bg defenders ?? Sad…I’m glad I didn’t join your guild.

Blackgate I hear you guys respect your pugs/militia and smaller guilds you guys have room for a pug that upgrades keeps, run supplies and drops sieges for everyone to use ?? I wouldn’t mind joining one of your guilds too as long as I get to smash SPQR guild I would be happy.

We actually believe PuGs are the most important people. A lot of our guilds do mainly guild runs, so we count on our PuGs to take other things while some of the guilds are making their own zerg. The guild I’m in does very little of that and often works with PuGs. We also try to do things to get our PuGs more into the flow, such as do small portal bombs just to get the server use to doing Portal bombs and knowing when to stack.

We’ve got public mumble and somewhat public website where all the guilds meet and everyone in Blackgate is welcome. The mumble has some public channels but most are private. You can gain access by talking to a mumble officer. Only rule is you must wear your guild tag before your name in mumble.

If you’d like more info, I can have one of the “ambassadors” pm you.

ICoa does it again…have you guys no shame?

SoR I think is probably one of the most pug friendly servers. On our public server everyone is welcome and plays quite well together.

On TS, most people don’t even look at guilds, it’s all about the server unity.

There are some exceptions, but overall I dig the no drama environment of SoR.

Hoping people in WvW from Blackgate are also reporting them. Its been a great match up so far to have them (ICoa) from screwing that up.

Which borderland are they in and what keep?

past two nights its been Blackgate BL and Bay keep.

Saitohz.3109:

SPQR – The republic guild leader laffingseals insulting small guilds on SOR server wow just childish he tried to recruit me into his guild last week but I refused I guess he couldn’t get any new members too so his solution is to insult the smaller guilds saying their useless and what not. You are wrong small guilds can organize and take camps for a server you don’t need 30+ zergs to take a camp I don’t know about you guys but I’m leaving this server tired of him and his guild insulting players just cause people won’t join his tactic-less guild.

Sad to hear he did that. If I were you, I’d give SoR another chance and just put him on block. It seem’s as if he is 1 person, and I’ve never even seen him before. Rather not lose a good WvW’er due to someone who was being rude to people.

SoR does respect the non guilded members, or people in small guilds. Run around with myself, miasmic, Knight, Jack Lowland, Alpaca Owl, Indo, Thais, or many more, and you’ll see we “thank” them more then anything. Also you are welcome to come on TS and be with all of us, along with Fate, TW, and more.

@pot.6805,
Many mesmers actually hide. Or drop portals then as the zerglings run out of a tower they port back in. I know for AH/AB we will set up 3+ mesmers to all go in different hiding locations. For towers a lot will drop a portal out of obvious view, jump out, let the attackers cap and run off as they portal right back in, hide, and call more people to come cap. Think the longest we’ve made a mesmer hide so far was 3-4hours.(Also we will pair some mesmers with a thief or two for stealthing.)

So no, not everything is hacking how you think. (At least on SoR BL, where I am.)

@Everyone,
If you see hacking, report it, and move on. Lets not start calling servers out on it, and play the blame game yet again. We are all better then this.

Never any drama on SoR, just blame me and continue on.

lol pugs can either be either extremely useful and effective or totally underutilized and mindless with no direction.

Small guilds not so much they can take camps, scout, defend towers without a commander leading them. Taking camps is one if not the most imporant thing to do in WvW.

Pugs on the other hand need to be commanded properly by a commander with good judgement, communication skills are a must and that understands tactics and WvW game mechanics. (majority of commanders I have seen do not fit this mold) When there is no excuse for failure (out manned etc) and your squad fails badly badly look at your commander and see why. Its because all the commander is, is a pug magnet and a place to congregate on the map, so what that commander does effects everything.