Guild Wars 2

The problem isnt thieves dmg, or that they can kill you in a matter of seconds. A player should be able to know how to counter that. (I’m a necro so a blinding well works perfectly or popping deathshroud.) The problem with thieves is stealth.

My solution is if you recieve damage in stealth it should knock you out of it. Simple as that.

Also if that makes thieves suck, just make it base dmg and not condition dmg that knocks them out.

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thread isn’t about mesmers. It is about thief stealth.

fenim.2395:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thread isn’t about mesmers. It is about thief stealth.

So u want to nerf a classes speciality, but let eveyrone else keep theirs? Why would you play a thief when u can kill just as fast with another class AND still get an ability like portal for example.

Making thieves come out of stealth from damage is ridiculous. You would just be warrior in medium armor.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Stealth-needs-to-drop-on-damage/first

The theif speciality AKA stealth is going to be nerfed anyways if they ever fix it (Fix culling will nerf the stealth they have or if they nerf stealth itself). In this thread I’m talking about balancing thieves and the problem with culling not about any other classes.

The fact that in any other game with stealth if you take damage you come out of stealth is viable. Not only does this make thieves have to be concious about conditions on them but also about timing and this also makes the opposing side non-thieves have to think where they might be in order to knock them out. Quite simple really.

sachiel.8051:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Stealth-needs-to-drop-on-damage/first

This link goes to a very long discussion that has already been going about the exact same “fix” you’re coming up with. Maybe you should read it before posting more in this thread.

Do you people realize that there are already 500 threads about this? Please moderator please delete or move this thread.

SmokeyNYY is correct there are tons of these threads and I believe they will continue. Venting is healthy and if something constructive does come up then all the better. One counter I’ve not seen mention is flame thrower engineer. I believe thieves are fine and culling needs to be fixed. I believe that people shouldn’t be traveling alone in WvWvW and there are counters to thieves. My Flamethrower engineer has little problems with thieves. So if you are unable to counter a thief with your current class/build and insist on traveling without protection then I recommend trying a flame thrower engineer with firearms and alchemy maxed. Great CC, damage,a nd you don’t need to target anything =) Merry Xmas to everyone.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Do you people realize that there are already 500 threads about this? Please moderator please delete or move this thread.

And probably will be much more until anet address the issue, is about emotions, players feel mad or sad and come here to let us know how tired are about this issue.

What is even funnier is people who are complaining about these threads are 3/4 of posters in that threads….And are keeping said thread at top by posting it.

Miku.7156:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Do you people realize that there are already 500 threads about this? Please moderator please delete or move this thread.

And probably will be much more until anet address the issue, is about emotions, players feel mad or sad and come here to let us know how tired are about this issue.

If they have not addressed it after about 20 threads a day about the same subject i am afraid they most likely will not ever. Also considering thief’s have been nerfed I think three or four times already. A-net probably sees this more as a learn to play issue because they have even stated that everything in this game has a counter. The main problem which is mentioned in every one of these threads is the culling issue, not the thief class as a whole. A-net has stated on mutliple occasions that they are working out a solution so people who keep posting these thief threads are going nowhere fast.

^^ I believe SmokeyNYY has hit the nail on the head and I concurr.

Moddo.7105:

What is even funnier is people who are complaining about these threads are 3/4 of posters in that threads….And are keeping said thread at top by posting it.

You sir make a good point

It is in frustration that i post because I see about ten of these threads a day with the same rabble in them, with page after page after page of the same complaints and the same supposed solutions.

Wouldn’t it be pretty simple to just give a priority to thiefs so they would be last ones affected by culling? I’m no expert in such things but seems pretty obvious solution.
And that wouldn’t require kittening thiefs abilities or damage.

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

Megaborax.4795:

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

You are probably one of the thiefs who dont know how to permastealth, if you dont know how to do it then dont know why you are even posting and if you do permastealth then you needed some moral lessons from your parents as no one will see funny to been killed by someone you cant see.

Miku.7156:

Megaborax.4795:

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

You are probably one of the thiefs who dont know how to permastealth, if you dont know how to do it then dont know why you are even posting and if you do permastealth then you needed some moral lessons from your parents as no one will see funny to been killed by someone you cant see.

Actually thieves being able to perma stealth is a myth. You will see them pop out real quick and then go back into stealth. No thief in game can stay perma stealthed for an infinite amount of time unless they are completely traited and have every single stealth utility and even then they are revealed for a very short time. If you seriously die to a thief that is completely traited and utilited to stealth that is extremely sad.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Miku.7156:

Megaborax.4795:

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

You are probably one of the thiefs who dont know how to permastealth, if you dont know how to do it then dont know why you are even posting and if you do permastealth then you needed some moral lessons from your parents as no one will see funny to been killed by someone you cant see.

Actually thieves being able to perma stealth is a myth. You will see them pop out real quick and then go back into stealth. No thief in game can stay perma stealthed for an infinite amount of time unless they are completely traited and have every single stealth utility and even then they are revealed for a very short time. If you seriously die to a thief that is completely traited and utilited to stealth that is extremely sad.

There are a lot of them around, some months ago there was very few but now are that many and there are going to be more as several people is turning to the op class.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Miku.7156:

Megaborax.4795:

I don’t even get why this is an issue…thieves have a very short window of invis unless they spec for it and take all their available ability slots as some form or another of invis… This is sort of like someone saying conditions keep killing me, I don’t think someone should be able to lay more than one type of condition at a time on someone else…

Really no disrespect meant by my comment but it really doesn’t sound like there is any thought of balance involved just someone griping about a thief that killed them…

There are plenty of ways to foil thieves, and they’re pretty easy to kill once you lock them down.

Pay more attention, balance restored…

You are probably one of the thiefs who dont know how to permastealth, if you dont know how to do it then dont know why you are even posting and if you do permastealth then you needed some moral lessons from your parents as no one will see funny to been killed by someone you cant see.

Actually thieves being able to perma stealth is a myth. You will see them pop out real quick and then go back into stealth. No thief in game can stay perma stealthed for an infinite amount of time unless they are completely traited and have every single stealth utility and even then they are revealed for a very short time. If you seriously die to a thief that is completely traited and utilited to stealth that is extremely sad.

Actually stealthed… that’s true you can not be actually stealthed permanently.

VISUALLY stealthed is another thing altogether though… and that’s what players are normally talking about. They can try tab targeting… but tbh… that’s not a reliable way to deal with the problem.

I do notice a staggering increase in thieves nowadays whilst in WvW. And recently I’ve been starting to ‘see’ them run around in groups of 2-5 thieves on a regular basis when fighting against certain servers.

If this trend continues ArenaNet might wish to rename their game to Thief Wars 2.

Wouldn’t work. As a thief, the second I enter stealth people just don’t stop hitting. I’m in melee range when I go into stealth. All that person has to do is tap 1 again before I can move away and boom, bye bye stealth. Stealth would be useless in combat at that point.

Aveneo.2068:

If this trend continues ArenaNet might wish to rename their game to Thief Wars 2.

you’re so witty, people must pay you to be a writer

Just make thieves give charged lodestones as drops on death.

That’s the REAL solution to the thief problem.

Stealth has been a problem with every pvp game ever. No game has done it so well that its perfect.

I think Halo’s solution isn’t too bad although its not great. You can see the outline of the person the faster they move.

League of legends isn’t too bad as well. Once you’re in a certain range they become visible. Perfect scout but without the stupid 515151515151 faceroll backstop combo trollytrollface.

If they could fix the culling issues, we could then really see how thiefs act, because the culling is a massive problem right now.

I die to every class every day while stealthed.

It takes like 5 hits to down me, I’m pure glass. If you can’t manage that, then L2P, cry more, etc.

skinnyb.5920:

I die to every class every day while stealthed.

It takes like 5 hits to down me, I’m pure glass. If you can’t manage that, then L2P, cry more, etc.

^ This is the problem.

It’s not a l2p issue it’s a thief constantly exploits serious bugs issue.

Aberrant.6749:

skinnyb.5920:

I die to every class every day while stealthed.

It takes like 5 hits to down me, I’m pure glass. If you can’t manage that, then L2P, cry more, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhdsF4oEI8

^ This is the problem.

It’s not a l2p issue it’s a thief constantly exploits serious bugs issue.

Meaning it’s not an OP issue either.

I’ve never understood why people clamor harder for a nerf than they do for a bug fix when the bug is the real problem, but in all honesty you aren’t likely to see ANet do anything about either of them.

Can we stop these threads please.
Damage knocking a thief out of stealth will NOT work in this game.
Thieves are not Rogues.

The rendering bug in WvW is game flaw and nobody can blame Thieves for taking advantage of it because there is no way not to. Unless you just expect all thieves to count to 2 after they pop out of stealth before they hit you.

If you are uplvled in WvW then you just need to deal with the fact that you are a thief’s main target. So never run around by yourself and quit trying to just do the JP.

There should be a mechanism that tells you which direction you are getting hit from by somebody in stealth. I would assume all 8 classes have the sense of touch so if they get hit from behind there should be something to let the user know that’s where the attack is coming from. Then you can do your dodge rolls and aoe accordingly. This preserves the 1 vs 1 nature of the thief since only the target is aware of their location but also allows them a fighting chance. A glass cannon that you can’t see or hit and can spike you with impunity and which you can’t interrupt but which they can interrupt you is an issue.

Cactus.2710:

Aberrant.6749:

skinnyb.5920:

I die to every class every day while stealthed.

It takes like 5 hits to down me, I’m pure glass. If you can’t manage that, then L2P, cry more, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhdsF4oEI8

^ This is the problem.

It’s not a l2p issue it’s a thief constantly exploits serious bugs issue.

Meaning it’s not an OP issue either.

I’ve never understood why people clamor harder for a nerf than they do for a bug fix when the bug is the real problem, but in all honesty you aren’t likely to see ANet do anything about either of them.

It’s an OP issue because these bug exploits make thieves OP.

People are asking for nerfs now because we’ve been told that dealing with the bugs themselves will take a while. Thus… nerf thief until the bugs are fixed… then un-nerf them after.

A good dev balances the game for the current state of the classes, not what they think it’ll be like in a while… that’s just silly and leave a class OP/overly nerfed for months on end.

Wanting temporary fixes in place now to deal with what is happening now… and wanting bug fixes when they are finally able to fix them are not mutually exclusive.

A single thief routinely kills every yak coming out of a camp. 4 pugs all in a voice chat system go to stop them. The thief stealths, hits one of the group a couple times and restealths.

The short times that the thief is visible all kinds of death goes their way, reducing the thief by 1/3 or 1/2 their HP for the 2 seconds they are visible every time. When the thief restealths, they group back up and lay down AoEs in a reasonable spread. But every time the thief reappears with full hp and a full second of free hits before he even renders again, and another 1/4th of a second for reactions and targeting.

Yes, this is a group of 4 pugs. But it’s a group of relatively organized pugs, all in voice chat. I’m not convinced a group of 4 guildies would do any better.

If a significant force of 8 or more shows up the thief just retreats and waits for the group to leave, then goes back to their guaranteed denial.

In what world should a particular build of a class be capable of easily killing all yaks coming out of a supply camp alone with 4 players standing on top of the yak defending it without having to die to do it?

Yes mesmers can port people past walls... if they manage to not be spotted before they do it, which never seems to happen... And then they have to have a large group helping them for it to mean anything. A single theif can deny an entire side of a map yaks, and be unkillable doing it. And the only skill requirement is learning a rotation for their skills to maximize their stealth time. Any ex-WoW player can do that in their sleep.

I agree that the rendering issue is contributing to this. And I agree that thief stealth needs nerfed until that rendering issue is solved, an imbalance due to broken mechanics is still an imbalance that can be corrected for if the mechanics issue can not be quickly solved directly.

Nobody, no matter what their class, and no matter what their skill level, should be able to take on four times their number, no matter their skill level. Skill should beat numbers in many situations. I don’t think thieves running long stealth builds are as skilled as they think they are, but even if they were, skill should only go so far. You could put a pro NFL player against a high school football team, and while the pro could be the best in the league, they are not going to beat the football team. It should not be this way here.

If the culling gets fixed and glass cannon/backstab build gets nerfed a bit there won’t be any problem with Thives.

I’m a Thief typing this.Yes.True story.

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Use a warrior with an offhand mace that can knockdown everything in a line for two seconds to knockdown the theif killing your dolyaks.

They either need to fix culling or fix it so that if a thief is culled post stealth they cant damage you.

The current ability to abuse cloak and dagger to permastealth and kill a player without ever becoming visible to that player is flat broke and not working as intended.

Ironically many of the proposed solutions (make thieves visible if they take damage) really wouldnt do a thing to help with this as it dosent address the key issue (a thief that is supposed to be visible isnt).

Really they need to fix culling back to the “test” behavior asap, and come up with a solution overall stat.

Thief still may need nerfing (and probably will to some degree) after culling is fixed but it wont really be evident how much untill we see what the class does in a fair (culling free) enviiroment.

The question then becomes what to nerf, the answer is probably signet of malice:

Having the top burst damage in the game is OK.

Having the top burst damage in the game, and highest mobility is also OK.

Having the top burst damage in the game, highest mobility, and the highest heal per second of any class is NOT OK. (comes to somthing close to 400 heal per second, compare that to a guardians signet heal which is 203 per sec, warriors signet is 200 per sec passive, and mending is a bit higher at 281 a sec or so at full adren.

Basicly a thief should have to rely on stealth and manuverability for defense more than they are right now, they are not the squishies that ANet has described in their class outline, indeed in many ways they are fully capable tanks in dagger spec wih each round of dagger main hand #1 attacks able to heal them 400 hp…

The only thing they DONT do well is deal with burst damage, which ironically favors players who have less experience and are playing the burst damage builds.

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW

-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW

-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)

I notice alot of those have only in PvP. So how does this factor into WvW where most people are griping. When you go to WvW you only get upleveled your stats for the most part stay the same as PvE… So do the ones that were nerfed for pvp also get nerfed for WvW? Does anyone have feed back for that?

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW

-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)

I notice alot of those have only in PvP. So how does this factor into WvW where most people are griping. When you go to WvW you only get upleveled your stats for the most part stay the same as PvE… So do the ones that were nerfed for pvp also get nerfed for WvW? Does anyone have feed back for that?

If 2 is “a lot”, also not sure. I do know that I’ve never come to WvW looking for a fair fight. It’s not a balanced world, and there a lots of things that can kill you. I find the thought that one or more players can come over the hill and smite you stimulating.

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Dual.8953:

jportell.2197:

Rinzler.8072:

Dunno, a thief that can kill one person fast. But a mesmer can portal in a whole zerg that can kill 20 people fast and take a whole tower/keep.

I would argue that a mesmers portal ability is more powerful than a thiefs ability to beat someone in a duel.

Thieves are powerful at killing players, mesmers are powerful at taking WVW objectives.

If u wanna nerf stealth, u gotta nerf portals too. aka make them only transport 5 people in max.

Portals have been nerfed to a limited number of uses. Thieves on the other hand haven’t been touched… I do not support the nerfing of any class rather wish that we could all max out how we run our own builds and get a preference there.

Thief has been touched a few times by damage nerfs. Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense. They’re very weak without it.

Where were the damage nerfs? Steal BS HS is still ridiculous in damage. Like half your health in a few seconds… But that only happened to me when I played as a thief in WvW

-Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed.
Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%.
New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
-Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
-Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
-Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.

As for ones that don’t pertain to BS and HS spam builds:
-Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%
-Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
-Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%. (Used to be complained about, now is no better then auto attack and S/P has pretty much been dropped by players)

I notice alot of those have only in PvP. So how does this factor into WvW where most people are griping. When you go to WvW you only get upleveled your stats for the most part stay the same as PvE… So do the ones that were nerfed for pvp also get nerfed for WvW? Does anyone have feed back for that?

If 2 is “a lot”, also not sure. I do know that I’ve never come to WvW looking for a fair fight. It’s not a balanced world, and there a lots of things that can kill you. I find the thought that one or more players can come over the hill and smite you stimulating.

Well i meant damage wise because CnD do ridic damage in WvW I conversely have never done spvp so I wouldn’t know.

oh i think its easy fixed make them unable to enter stealth for a given time(longer then 2secs) and then the thief needs to think of when to go out of stealth and when to run away in stealth

lets say a thief comes up in stealth and opens fire from a distance then he have to wait 15-25secs before he can enter stealth agien in any way or form and from what i can see it will make the thief use there brain more instead of a rotation and position situation(and yes thats all they need to think about right now in my oppinion)
but if thats implented i dont care if he has a stealth lasting 2-3 mins each time he pops it if he wants to run it all the way out(tho a shorter one if he stealths allys)

Stealth is not the problem, culling is.

Every time i go into a zerg I face with stealthed warriors, rangers, guardians, etc. they should nerf them :x

ijs.

Korsbaek.9803:

oh i think its easy fixed make them unable to enter stealth for a given time(longer then 2secs) and then the thief needs to think of when to go out of stealth and when to run away in stealth

lets say a thief comes up in stealth and opens fire from a distance then he have to wait 15-25secs before he can enter stealth agien in any way or form and from what i can see it will make the thief use there brain more instead of a rotation and position situation(and yes thats all they need to think about right now in my oppinion)
but if thats implented i dont care if he has a stealth lasting 2-3 mins each time he pops it if he wants to run it all the way out(tho a shorter one if he stealths allys)

Consider this, A BS thief only needs to stealth once to get his kill. (and only can do their combo once every 45 or so seconds anyways.)
And a tanky thief has no access to damage mitigation aside from 2.5 dodges and possibly 3 short range blinds, 1 or 2 retreat roles and one or 2 shadow step retreats before their out of sustainable damage mitigation. And they can’t take all of these without doing near base damage.
Nerfs like this actually promote using glass cannon burst specs, because they pretty much destroy all other builds.
Condition, balanced and tank builds would become unplayable.

Dual.8953:

Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense.

Thief survivability comes mainly from mobility against competent components. The misconception that stealth is a great survivability asset is one of the main reasons people keep clamoring for it to be changed. In reality, stealth does very little to keep a thief alive if they’re fighting an opponent that knows how to stay aggressive and track them in stealth. What keeps the thief alive is being more mobile than their opponent, which would ensure they stay alive regardless of stealth.

You’re absolutely right in your assertion that stealth nerfs result in more insta-kill backstab thieves though. The backstab assassin-type play style is one of the least reliant on stealth of any thief play style.

Tulisin.6945:

Dual.8953:

Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense.

Thief survivability comes mainly from mobility against competent components. The misconception that stealth is a great survivability asset is one of the main reasons people keep clamoring for it to be changed. In reality, stealth does very little to keep a thief alive if they’re fighting an opponent that knows how to stay aggressive and track them in stealth. What keeps the thief alive is being more mobile than their opponent, which would ensure they stay alive regardless of stealth.

You’re absolutely right in your assertion that stealth nerfs result in more insta-kill backstab thieves though. The backstab assassin-type play style is one of the least reliant on stealth of any thief play style.

I was talking more big mix ups where sustained defense upkeep is a must. Most classes have healing and boons to stay alive, thieves are limited in that, mobility is great for escaping fights, however if you want to stay in the fights, and you get focused, mobility can quickly reach it’s limit. Stealth is pretty much what fills in this gap, cause it drops the aggro off you, and thieves are at their best when they aren’t the center of attention.

Didn’t you do this thread last week?

It really is a simple solution. Remove stealth from all characters. Make them actually learn to play the game and their character.

While you’re at it, put a kitten range on people’s pets or just remove them too.

Dual.8953:

Tulisin.6945:

Dual.8953:

Anet’s probably reluctant do anything to stealth because 90% of thieves’ survival comes from stealth along with a large chunk of their offense.

Thief survivability comes mainly from mobility against competent components. The misconception that stealth is a great survivability asset is one of the main reasons people keep clamoring for it to be changed. In reality, stealth does very little to keep a thief alive if they’re fighting an opponent that knows how to stay aggressive and track them in stealth. What keeps the thief alive is being more mobile than their opponent, which would ensure they stay alive regardless of stealth.

You’re absolutely right in your assertion that stealth nerfs result in more insta-kill backstab thieves though. The backstab assassin-type play style is one of the least reliant on stealth of any thief play style.

I was talking more big mix ups where sustained defense upkeep is a must. Most classes have healing and boons to stay alive, thieves are limited in that, mobility is great for escaping fights, however if you want to stay in the fights, and you get focused, mobility can quickly reach it’s limit. Stealth is pretty much what fills in this gap, cause it drops the aggro off you, and thieves are at their best when they aren’t the center of attention.

This is true if you consider players in WvW to be NPCs. It isn’t a bad comparison, considering the way the majority of people act if they lose their tab target. The question is, is it the mechanic (stealth) providing that survivability, or is it player behavior (ignoring thieves the second they lose their tab target, acquiring a different target, standing around, or wandering off). Against competent players stealth doesn’t work as an aggro drop, but it does make it harder to ascertain exact positioning.