Guild Wars 2

Is anything going to be done about this? It’s so easy for 1 person to drain 600++ supply from a keep by simply ordering hire services/crap upgrade that isn’t needed at the time.

We just got hire services and merchents hired at both our towers and garrison, moments before we got zerged by the enemy.

It’s quite pathetic really.

Thread Solution: Upgrading becomes a voting system, like choosing a dungeon path.

Another idea: Show the account name of the player.

Happened to Deso this morning in SM, about 2k supplies got wasted, not sure what Anet can do to stop this though.

One helpful thing is they could make it so you see the account name of the person that queued the upgrade… so he can at least be reported or taught why he shouldn’t have done it.

Lmao, you guys really can’t expect them to do anything about this right? I mean there is nothing at all they can do. You just have to deal with it.

pvp.2758 has a good solution steepledhat…..

State the account name of upgrade person is a realistic suggestion IMO. If ppl do it when he think it is the correct time, then he should not mind others know that he pay for it. Only spy don’t want ppl knows his name.

You can’t report people for playing the game poorly. It’s a terrible idea. They always have deniable culpability. So they’ll never be punished. (And they shouldn’t be.) Even if they do it over and over and over….

You can’t dictate how they play even if it effects the outcome of WvW. It’s a slippery slope.

I am probably just naive- but how do you know they were trying to harm your team? Maybe they truly thought they were helping out?

jazzllanna.1278:

I am probably just naive- but how do you know they were trying to harm your team? Maybe they truly thought they were helping out?

This is why the “report them” option isn’t very good. Sometimes noobies just go too far trying to honestly be helpful, not realizing they’re doing something harmful. Reporting them doesn’t gain you a good team member, it ostracizes new players.

Maybe they are just thinking ahead. Zerg inbound, ppl are going to die right? so, hiring a repair merchant is a genius idea!

What about: upgrading only possible by the guild that claims them
This makes claiming a tower, even when you don’t have guild buffs (let’s assume you only claimed it with 5 ppl from 2 guilds total, both don’t have buffs) worth the effort.

I think ANet should implement a simple voting system for the services/upgrades. Since it is meant for the benefit of majority, it is more sensible if more than one person could vote for it.

They just need to change the costs/usefulness of some of the upgrades.

Every upgrade should be something we’re happy to see. No upgrade should be considered to be a “spy/troll upgrade”.

Like:

• Hire Services also adds 4 Zealots to each gate.
• Hire Siege Merchant also drops a catapult behind each gate which is rebuildable (like oil and cannons)
• Extra Guards should be a lot more archers on the walls.

Currently a lot of the upgrades just suck and the only reason to get them is extra supply storage during peacetime. Most of them aren’t worth the expense.

Pvp.2758:

Is anything going to be done about this? It’s so easy for 1 person to drain 600++ supply from a keep by simply ordering hire services/crap upgrade that isn’t needed at the time.

We just got hire services and merchents hired at both our towers and garrison, moments before we got zerged by the enemy.

It’s quite pathetic really.

So you got zerged and beforehand one person was smart enough to quickly drain supplies in the keep, so that the enemy won’t be able to insta upgrade?

Pannonica.5378:

So you got zerged and beforehand one person was smart enough to quickly drain supplies in the keep, so that the enemy won’t be able to insta upgrade?

This is what you do when they are about to breach. Not 5 minutes before a possible attack.

Anet should just add merchants and repairs to the keeps as a standard. Hiring a second worker should not drain any supply only cost more. I want a new siege defence weapon though. I want humans that stand on the side of the doors throwing fighting dwarfs at the attackers!

I admit I’ve gotten yelled at on occasion when I’ve bought merchants in a tower or keep, but my reasoning is this:

If we have a lot of supply and are currently upgrading and we are gaining supply faster than we are using it, OR the supply is full and we’re about to get a caravan arriving anyway, I will buy it, because there is, essentially, no reason not to.

The LAST thing anyone should do after taking over a Keep is order a upgrade , you NEED that supply to build a counter defense if the enemy is coming back quickly! The first thing I have people do after taking a enemy Keep is throw down defensive siege 4 arrow carts per gate and at least one cata for range after that get the treb up. When youve done all that … THEN order the upgrades to the keep otherwise your newly aquired Keep is weak and very vunerable.

And this would be much harder, if some smart guy ordered nonesense upgrades to drain supplies before you take over.
You can’t distinguish between a smart guy and a spy draining supplies on purpose.
As a side note, a spy draining supplies only hurts their own group, capturing the keep (drained keep=no quick way of putting up defensive siege or upgrade), so that ‘strategy’ would be a bit short sighted, in my opinion.

The whole use of reporting as a solution sounds extremely problematic, since you don’t know for certain the motives or thinking behind an upgrade. Even wall upgrades can create an issue if they’re poorly timed.

One solution that hasn’t been mentioned is introducing more hard requirements for upgrades. So for structural upgrades you’d have a minimum supply, just like personnel upgrades, even if they’re not utilized right away. For personnel upgrades, you’d need to have more supply available if there’s also an active structural upgrade. You might also need to hold X number of supply camps feeding the tower or keep.

I realize that this makes upgrades harder to understand, although it isn’t that much of an issue because people should have an understanding of upgrades beyond the information given by the NPC before ordering them.

You could make upgrades require the input of, say, 3 people. So if an upgrade costs 1 gold, then 3 people must each donate 33 silver. Only once the third person has paid the 3rd installment does the upgrade start.

This would both help spread the cost of upgrades, and prevent a single person screwing an entire server.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

What about: upgrading only possible by the guild that claims them
This makes claiming a tower, even when you don’t have guild buffs (let’s assume you only claimed it with 5 ppl from 2 guilds total, both don’t have buffs) worth the effort.

So spys/trolls go around claiming a bunch of places so they block you from upgrading at all. Sorry bad enough these losers already do it to block people from putting up guild buffs.

It’s an unresolvable issue since you can never determine the motive of the player which buys the upgrade. It’s something you should always plan for, thus make the effort to build counter siege before the push comes.

I’d rather see an overhaul of the upgrade system. WvW is a team game right? So why is upgrading structures all done by one person? Upgrading structures should be a team effort. I think that all players should be able to donate money (with a minimum depending on what you’re upgrading) to the upgrade npc and then be placed on a pool of people who get to vote on an upgrade. Then, when someone talks to the npc and starts a construction all people who put in money get to vote on the upgrades that are available at the time (depending on the objective’s supply and the gold in the pool). This would be similar to the voting system for choosing explorable paths in dungeons. The votes of members of the guild that own the tower, camp or keep would count twice.

Here’s a practical example. Say 4 players want to upgrade a tower they just captured. Players 1 and 2 donate 2 silver, Player 3 donates 5 and Player 4 donates 1 silver. Player 4 is a spy so he wants to use the money on buying merchants, so he initiates the vote for what to build. Player 3 is a member of the guild that now owns the tower and he wants to reinforce walls so he votes for that. Player 1 doesn’t vote and Player 2 votes to reinforce the walls. The walls are then upgraded thanks to the collective work from all people involved (even the spy, who helped pay for the upgrade). Had there been a tie between two upgrades there would be a runoff vote eliminating the lesser voted options (except for the option to not build anything yet, which would always be there).

Enenion.8127:

I’d rather see an overhaul of the upgrade system. WvW is a team game right? So why is upgrading structures all done by one person? Upgrading structures should be a team effort. I think that all players should be able to donate money (with a minimum depending on what you’re upgrading) to the upgrade npc and then be placed on a pool of people who get to vote on an upgrade. Then, when someone talks to the npc and starts a construction all people who put in money get to vote on the upgrades that are available at the time (depending on the objective’s supply and the gold in the pool). This would be similar to the voting system for choosing explorable paths in dungeons. The votes of members of the guild that own the tower, camp or keep would count twice.

Here’s a practical example. Say 4 players want to upgrade a tower they just captured. Players 1 and 2 donate 2 silver, Player 3 donates 5 and Player 4 donates 1 silver. Player 4 is a spy so he wants to use the money on buying merchants, so he initiates the vote for what to build. Player 3 is a member of the guild that now owns the tower and he wants to reinforce walls so he votes for that. Player 1 doesn’t vote and Player 2 votes to reinforce the walls. The walls are then upgraded thanks to the collective work from all people involved (even the spy, who helped pay for the upgrade). Had there been a tie between two upgrades there would be a runoff vote eliminating the lesser voted options (except for the option to not build anything yet, which would always be there).

What if the spy is the first person to donate, and immediately initiates the vote?

Ragnar.4257:

Enenion.8127:

I’d rather see an overhaul of the upgrade system. WvW is a team game right? So why is upgrading structures all done by one person? Upgrading structures should be a team effort. I think that all players should be able to donate money (with a minimum depending on what you’re upgrading) to the upgrade npc and then be placed on a pool of people who get to vote on an upgrade. Then, when someone talks to the npc and starts a construction all people who put in money get to vote on the upgrades that are available at the time (depending on the objective’s supply and the gold in the pool). This would be similar to the voting system for choosing explorable paths in dungeons. The votes of members of the guild that own the tower, camp or keep would count twice.

Here’s a practical example. Say 4 players want to upgrade a tower they just captured. Players 1 and 2 donate 2 silver, Player 3 donates 5 and Player 4 donates 1 silver. Player 4 is a spy so he wants to use the money on buying merchants, so he initiates the vote for what to build. Player 3 is a member of the guild that now owns the tower and he wants to reinforce walls so he votes for that. Player 1 doesn’t vote and Player 2 votes to reinforce the walls. The walls are then upgraded thanks to the collective work from all people involved (even the spy, who helped pay for the upgrade). Had there been a tie between two upgrades there would be a runoff vote eliminating the lesser voted options (except for the option to not build anything yet, which would always be there).

What if the spy is the first person to donate, and immediately initiates the vote?

Just like the voting system for choosing exp dungeon paths, there is some time for a vote to occur. While that timer is counting down anyone else can donate money to get a vote in the decision. Players near the tower would also get a notification that an upgrade is being built so they can donate and vote if they want to.

It is pretty pathetic, but think of it like this: if the person really is a troll/spy for another server then sure they’re wasting your supply but they’re also wasting their own gold/seige bp upgrading your stuff!

transtemporal.2158:

It is pretty pathetic, but think of it like this: if the person really is a troll/spy for another server then sure they’re wasting your supply but they’re also wasting their own gold/seige bp upgrading your stuff!

The benefits of taking a keep far outweighs gold loss. The reason they do this is so they don’t have to fight against a keep for 3 hours with 1,700 supply. If you drain half the supply inside, it will usually take half the time to take it.

Not only are they draining supply, but they are taking up queue space too…

I like the idea of having a voting system to upgrade, like dungeons.

Just make it so that Personnel and Structural upgrades are completely separate, and can go on at the same time. But because they can run concurrently, slow down the production for each one.

Sorted.

That happens now. Merchants can be bought while walls are being upgraded …. The merchant supply count is instant reduction, the walls take supply over time.

Slamz.5376:

They just need to change the costs/usefulness of some of the upgrades.

Every upgrade should be something we’re happy to see. No upgrade should be considered to be a “spy/troll upgrade”.

Like:

• Hire Services also adds 4 Zealots to each gate.
• Hire Siege Merchant also drops a catapult behind each gate which is rebuildable (like oil and cannons)
• Extra Guards should be a lot more archers on the walls.

Currently a lot of the upgrades just suck and the only reason to get them is extra supply storage during peacetime. Most of them aren’t worth the expense.

I agree that every upgrade should be something that is useful and that everyone would want to have. It makes no sense to have upgrades that would be considered useless or a waste of resources.

Catisa.6507:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

What about: upgrading only possible by the guild that claims them
This makes claiming a tower, even when you don’t have guild buffs (let’s assume you only claimed it with 5 ppl from 2 guilds total, both don’t have buffs) worth the effort.

So spys/trolls go around claiming a bunch of places so they block you from upgrading at all. Sorry bad enough these losers already do it to block people from putting up guild buffs.

Yeah, I just noticed anyone can claim now … Back in beta I thought only the biggest representing guild in the fight could claim …

Or make it so that if the keep is claimed by a guild, only a member of that guild can order an upgrade. Of course this will then prevent other from upgrading when noone from that guild is online or available.

So I guess the voting system is the more preferred, but then again you can get trolls ordering something useless first rather than something that’s needed.

I think it’s safe to say that we all agree that WvW has not been fully thought through and and “fixes” have made the game worse/removed key features rather than improved it so far.

I haven’t played around a lot with upgrades but wanted to share my idea.

If an upgrade or upgrades were queued up, and the tower/keep is being attacked 2-3 mins later, there should be an option to cancel all upgrades for x amount of supplies.

So if 600 were drained, a player might be able to recover maybe… 400 supply after cancelling an upgrade/upgrades.

I’ve seen all sides of this argument because we play in the lower EU servers but we pretty much always own something in WvW. IMO, players in this game are either completely STOOPID, or they are spies playing for the other side. Either way, you can beat them at their own game.

First of all, you and your guild must claim the spot you want to own and upgrade. It must become a point that you love and want to protect. It really should be a spot close to a waypoint too, so that you can all get back to your fort quickly if it comes under attack. For smaller guilds I recommend “Cliffside” on your own borderland, or Veloka Slope, Langor Gulch, or Aldon’s Ledge on the Eternal Battleground, depending on your color for the week.

The down side off all of these towers is that each and every one of them has only one supply camp for supply. If you claim one of these spots you’ll have to be there to protect your fort and your supply camp too, particularly while you build any upgrade.

On the plus side, for those Eternal Battleground towers, the keep nearby has mortars that can also be used to defend the named tower gates. Learn to use those mortars.

For a medium sized guild with good 24 hour coverage I recommend the Garrison on your own borderland. Everyone will rush to defend the Garrison when it’s under attack but you as the owner will have to do the work to upgrade and defend 3 supply camps too, and you will have to be there during the upgrade process. This is where we defeat those incredibly STOOPID players, and the spies.

Get your guildies together and camp your supply points. Build siege in those camps. It really does work, but it costs. Upgrade your supply camps, and walk with your yaks. Even if your guildies get stomped on a yak at least you know where the bad guys are, and you have a good idea where they are going.

If you have a guild that can do what I’ve just described, here is where it gets really good. First off, advertise that you have claimed your keep in map chat. Tell everyone in map chat, “we’ve got it, we’ll build it”. That alone will keep the dingbats away. Dingbats aren’t going to spend gold if they know that the tower/keep owner is on the job. The spies will still show up and try to build stuff you don’t need, so beat them to it.

Early in the Garrison building process you’ll need guildies in supply camps, walking yaks, but also building the oil pots in the Garrison. The early plan is, don’t waste any supply coming in. Build what you can, and with upgraded supply camps and guild guards on the yaks, a lot of supply will come in. The plan is coming together.

With each upgrade the total supply in a tower/keep is increased, so use the supply as it comes in. If your guildies are on the job your supply will be coming in faster than you can use, and this is when you buy merchants, and services, and last of all, that Second Worker.

TL;CR? Upgrade the supply camps and defend them. Guard the yaks, and upgrade merchants and services when supply is maxed and yaks are coming in.

In short, you decide when to upgrade and don’t leave it to the dingbats or the spies.