Guild Wars 2

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

How did you get that from what you quoted? No one said that, or even close to it.

All he said was that you out number ET and FC and perhaps out number their combined forces, which I would believe.

Manoa.5897:

Jeknar.6184:

Also let’s not forget that Devona’s Rest had to win also 8 weeks straight to move out T8.

SF have 7 wins (by large margin) right now… Who knows, maybe you guys magically move this week? “cross fingers”

Anyone have any magic pixie dust laying around?? ’Cause given our evolution history, a rise to T7 looking mighty unlikely without some sort of magical intervention.

If it helps. HoD seems to be dropping hard, looking to go below 1K this past week, so if you guys pick it up a bit, you might be able to jump past them.

And you can’t expect us to roll over and let you go, that would mean you were not worthy to get out. Fight ! Fight Harder! Fight for your Freedom!

FREEDOM!

Jeknar.6184:

Scumbag Mawile.6384:

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

Actually, we don’t always have two active zergs in prime time. Often just one, occasionally none. Almost never three. That kind of activity is reserved for resets, and it’s not just us.

Gotta agree… SF can’t cover all maps at once during the week… They can cover around 2 (sometimes 3) if they aren’t moving in a massive zerg ball (covering only 1 map).

I said they have the numbers. I’m not necessarily saying they use them all the time.

Ungood.3054:

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

How did you get that from what you quoted? No one said that, or even close to it.

All he said was that you out number ET and FC and perhaps out number their combined forces, which I would believe.

If you truly believe they can’t cover all the maps, please go try to take SF’s borderlands without seeing a zerg form up to defend it while you lose your own borderlands.

Here’s how Ferguson’s Crossing has changed over the past 4 months or so: About three major guilds since our prime have transferred off, 2-3 other major guilds (200+ members frequent 15-25 person WvW showings) have backed completely out of WvW at least until Sorrow’s Furnace moves up which may never happen with the rating system, 1-3 hardcore WvW guilds like mine are taking WvW in stride and are becoming less active due to burnout, with maybe half the showings as they used to.

The HUGE MISCONCEPTION that I fear ArenaNet and other supporters of their supporters may of made in trying to justify Glicko2 locking tiers as it does in tier 8 was to assume the new players joining servers like ours would give it the numbers to balance out with the higher WvW population servers that get locked in tiers with us. IT NEVER WORKS OUT, because people are human and tire out; as many members as we do gain in the form of new players rolling here, we’re LOSING MORE WvW participants in the form of people tiring out from months of imbalanced match ups than those new players can dare number.

That’s the critical mistake, and why Glicko2 fails. Servers across the board are LOSING more WvWvW participants as time goes on than we gain from new players buying guild wars 2 and participating in WvW. On FC, for about every 10 new players that rolled their first character and have found WvW enjoyable enough to participate in daily, about 20 veterans who have endured bad match ups for months quit the server/game entirely and no longer show up in WvW.

While its particularly bad here in tier 8 since the way the math works down here causes Glicko2 to produce a locked match up much quicker than in higher tiers, its going to be equally a big problem for higher tiers soon if not already.

Here’s the issue ArenaNet has yet to see, in my opinion; basically, Glicko 2 is working as intended but WvWvW population distribution is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED, and when a viable system and a broken system are mixed, the result is still a broken WvWvW. Look at the imbalance in the tiers across the board for yourself. Glicko2 is not gonna fix that with time, contrary to the belief of some. New players joining Guild Wars 2 is not gonna fix that with time, contrary to the belief of some.

If no DRASTIC CHANGES are made the WvWvW + transfer SYSTEM as a whole (not just a select few parts) then the imbalanced match ups are going to continue forever until ALL the players with an interest in WvWvW in Guild Wars 2 die out. People will eventually move on to competitors of Guild Wars 2 that offer better systems of simulated war.

Detharos.3157:

People will eventually move on to competitors of Guild Wars 2 that offer better systems of simulated war.

I believe the canned response to this would be something along the lines of every game has things like this said, and they are still around.

However, most games have a spike at the start, and then dwindle, mainly because of disenchantment in their player base. You can see this across most games (Not all, just most)

Some games spike really high and then die away just as fast, others dwindle down, this is why game companies put out new games all the time, because previous versions, or their competitors have failed to entertain their player base enough to keep them.

So, when we see that a problem is arising, and it is growing, which is what is happening with WvWvW, and we see that nothing is being said, or done about it, it builds a bad reputation for a company. Now, Anet had a good enough rep to pull the people who played GW1 to GW2, and draw in a whole new barrage of players, 1 million copies sold in fact, it would be a total shame if they let something as silly using a glicko system generate a bad reputation for their company when they have put so much work into making the rest of the game as good as it is (Bugs and all)

or such is my feelings on the matter.

Brendar.3548:

Glicko is dumb, and broken. SF would have to 695ppt the entire week if they are to move up to T7, or HoD has a real bad week, and never has more than 5ppt.

It’s by all means not a solution but, what if SF was left to hum along at +695 for a few days or longer if it meant SF would leave T8. How much rating points would be gained?

Although SF may get out in that case, it would only doom red in T7 & likely be the next SF2.0.

I sometimes feel like the problems with the game are so obvious and easily fixed they just must not want them fixed.

fivekiller.1432:

I sometimes feel like the problems with the game are so obvious and easily fixed they just must not want them fixed.

I would be more inclined to think that is more an issues of them refusing to accept that it is broken to begin with.

Ungood.3054:

fivekiller.1432:

I sometimes feel like the problems with the game are so obvious and easily fixed they just must not want them fixed.

I would be more inclined to think that is more an issues of them refusing to accept that it is broken to begin with.

probably more likely.

still, I sometimes go into conspiracy mode and can’t help but feel like the big evil corporation is screwing us on purpose.

kind of a “surely they aren’t this stupid” thing turns into a “actually, ya they aren’t, they are just screwing us out of our money.”

all fantasy no doubt.

It could just be that their organizational structure or particular culture doesn’t allow things to be fixed properly or in a timely enough manner. I would bet on that.

as you said, someone is either refusing to admit problems are problems. or something similar is going on.

first of all they should rise the power of keeper’s by a lot (all keep masters should be at minimum something like Subject X from path 2 and 3 on Crucible of Eternity), then if a server is outnumbered by double the power and defense from npc’s rises for double, this way at least the defending outnumbered servers can do something different from keep loosing.
ANET should do really changes on tower, keeps and castle siegemasters so defending really maters, and help the outnumbered servers or merging, i would like to have battles where siegemaster must be take with cautious not zerg style as it is.
Why we have heavy ’’hard’’ (some boss’s really need to know and use tactic’s) 5 man instance boss’s and on mass zerg WxWxW they offer easy rubbish boss’s ?

Merge NA/EU servers together, have 17 tiers.

Cosmos The Cat.2954:

Merge NA/EU servers together, have 17 tiers.

I could get behind this.

Reset the whole thing, start over again, now that free transfers are done with, make 17 tiers, and see what happens.

That really has some cool potential.

Thank you for keeping the comments clean.

I’m less-so surprised by FC/ET players not transferring off as I am that SF guilds haven’t transferred off. How many weeks and still so far away from T7? It’s not as if advertisements for more transfer guilds to other worlds don’t come ten a penny.

Eternalight.4708:

Brendar.3548:

Glicko is dumb, and broken. SF would have to 695ppt the entire week if they are to move up to T7, or HoD has a real bad week, and never has more than 5ppt.

It’s by all means not a solution but, what if SF was left to hum along at +695 for a few days or longer if it meant SF would leave T8. How much rating points would be gained?

Although SF may get out in that case, it would only doom red in T7 & likely be the next SF2.0.

This is a good point.

There are 2 outcomes.

• If whoever comes down is a good match then all things are rain drops and cany canes, everyone ends up happy with battles and even fights galore, thus everyone wins. Sort to speak.

• If whoever comes down provides nothing but a blow out, then not only is T8 back t where it was before, whoever came down would get stuck here, because how low the point ratings would have had to drop for ET and FC for SF to pull out.

The first one is what everyone wants. The second one is what everyone but T6 is getting.

Mohahahaaaaa – SF is in our T8 trap and will never escaaaapee!!! Neeeeeveeeerr!!!
Sersiously, never not in 2013, not in 2014 – aint gonna happen the way things are going at the moment.
a) DR and Kaineng ensured (only way out of T8) that FC and ET ratings are so low that none can escape the black hole that is T8.
b) As soon as FC and ET ratings go up, it means that SF performed under the glicko predictions and they loose points. But when SF performs above par, they ensure that ET and FC ratings go down, making the next week an impossible job. 1 step forward, 1 step back.
c) Anet is not concerned with the situation at all. It’s the pink elephant in the room, but we turn the lights off and close the door. No acknowledgement or concern mentioned from their side in I dunno how many months/topics/posts. Oh, yes they wanted to reset ratings when free transfers were done, got the whole community enraged and decided to let the broken system just continue on it’s merry way.
d) FC has already lost a LOT of interest in WvW and good players and guilds have left already.
e) SF players are loosing interest because they realize that there is no way out and what they have in WvW is the same as what ET and FC have been stuck with for months: Unbalanced WvW – you don’t like it? Transfer! But Anet does not realize that players might not be transferring to other servers, they’re transferring to other games!
f) FC and ET numbers need to dwindle so much or quit playing for a few weeks that SF is able to rule all 4 maps from reset night. ET is showing some fight lately so I don’t think they have that in mind. FC have some real never-say-die players who love to feed on the scraps that get handed to them and I don’t think they will quit long enough for SF to have 4 uncontested maps.

Stalemate. TL;DR
SF, the better you play the lower you get our rankings and we drag you down again next week if you don’t perform even better. And I doubt you have much more to offer… T8 is you new home and we have the keys!

The problem, and everyone knows it, is thre Glicko rating system being used.

The problem is just way more apparent in T8 than the other tiers right now.

It happened to DR and Kaening. Now it is happening to SF. Doesn’t matter how many weeks they win, and by how big of a margin, they seem to be perpetually stuck in T8.

Eight weeks of solid blow outs should be enough to give you a shot at the next tier. This rating system not only is killing FC and ET as servers, it is hurting SF by not allowing them to move up.

Such a clear and obvious problem. So many great suggestions and ideas all over these forums and the web. So little response or action from ArenaNet.

ArenaNet feels that we are collateral damage necessary for the proper functioning and enjoyment of the system for other servers. Get used to being red-headed stepchildren…they only care if certain customers have an enjoyable time, and we aren’t those customers.

We on Henge of Denravi know your pain… We are greatly outnumbered 90% of the time. Just about 30 mins ago was 4 of us in EB trying to defend versus about 30+ Gates of Madness. Zerg Wars is not fun. Oh and we didn’t even get the Outmanned Buff, stupid excuse for a “Buff” anyways. I’m posting a video of it.

Venn.7623:

Ungood.3054:

Venn.7623:

Jeknar.6184:

WildBoy.3562:

I’m tired of being bullied by SF and ET we lose every week and every time we attack something we normally fail. They outnumber us greatly and we always have the outnumbered boon but it gives no help what so ever

ET doesn’t outnumber FC as bad as SF does… I’m sure SF can outnumber ET+FC.
Also until 2 weeks ago your server was better than ET. The only real problem at T8 is SF.

^ SF has the WvW numbers to cover all the maps lol..

How did you get that from what you quoted? No one said that, or even close to it.

All he said was that you out number ET and FC and perhaps out number their combined forces, which I would believe.

If you truly believe they can’t cover all the maps, please go try to take SF’s borderlands without seeing a zerg form up to defend it while you lose your own borderlands.

We communicate well and when we see our BL losing a tower or two (plus camps) we get a few folks from the other maps to roll around the BL once or twice to clear things up. It is not like we have those numbers just sitting in our BL. We have a core group of players who pretty much dedicate themselves to our BL and give us warning when needed.

Otaur.9268:

We on Henge of Denravi know your pain… We are greatly outnumbered 90% of the time. Just about 30 mins ago was 4 of us in EB trying to defend versus about 30+ Gates of Madness. Zerg Wars is not fun. Oh and we didn’t even get the Outmanned Buff, stupid excuse for a “Buff” anyways. I’m posting a video of it.

Join us HoD… Take a week off! Let us be happy at the Glicko’s Pit of Despair!

Jeknar.6184:

Otaur.9268:

We on Henge of Denravi know your pain… We are greatly outnumbered 90% of the time. Just about 30 mins ago was 4 of us in EB trying to defend versus about 30+ Gates of Madness. Zerg Wars is not fun. Oh and we didn’t even get the Outmanned Buff, stupid excuse for a “Buff” anyways. I’m posting a video of it.

Join us HoD… Take a week off! Let us be happy at the Glicko’s Pit of Despair!

“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, make me a match,
“Find me a find, catch me a catch
“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, look through your book,
“And make me a perfect match”

Manoa.5897:

Jeknar.6184:

Otaur.9268:

We on Henge of Denravi know your pain… We are greatly outnumbered 90% of the time. Just about 30 mins ago was 4 of us in EB trying to defend versus about 30+ Gates of Madness. Zerg Wars is not fun. Oh and we didn’t even get the Outmanned Buff, stupid excuse for a “Buff” anyways. I’m posting a video of it.

Join us HoD… Take a week off! Let us be happy at the Glicko’s Pit of Despair!

“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, make me a match,
“Find me a find, catch me a catch
“Matchmaker, Matchmaker, look through your book,
“And make me a perfect match”

LOL. A Fiddler on the Roof reference? In GW2?? And it applies to WvW?

You just made my day, thank you!!

If ET could pickup another 20 hardcore EST primetime WvW’ers this matchup would be a lot more interesting. The ET morning crew is the cats pajamas. I do not feel the matchup is really as lopsided/frustrating as everyone makes it out to be. And the whiny winners never cease to crack me up. They seem to be more frustrated than us losers. Having cut my teeth during the great ET WvW descent this matchup seems positively peachy vs. many others we have been through along the road. This is not to say a little variety would not be nice. Enjoy the ride and all the battles along the way!

I don’t think many of you realize how bad it is in FC. People do not want to WvW because of the mass zergs they face. Often there are fewer than 5 people in WvW. People have simply lost interest in getting pounded week after week with no hope of anything ever changing. It’s understandably demoralizing and as a result we often CANNOT form a group of even 10 which makes taking anything extremely difficult. Many people on FC won’t play WvW because it is pointless. The boons arenanet gives us for being overwhelmingly outnumbered are useless to us. As I have said before, I see everyone transfering to 1 of 3 servers eventually.

Moksha.9681:

I don’t think many of you realize how bad it is in FC. People do not want to WvW because of the mass zergs they face. Often there are fewer than 5 people in WvW. People have simply lost interest in getting pounded week after week with no hope of anything ever changing. It’s understandably demoralizing and as a result we often CANNOT form a group of even 10 which makes taking anything extremely difficult. Many people on FC won’t play WvW because it is pointless. The boons arenanet gives us for being overwhelmingly outnumbered are useless to us. As I have said before, I see everyone transfering to 1 of 3 servers eventually.

And when you do show up en masse, it’s about 50 strong and completely naked.

Holy loot bags Batman!

I wish SF has the numbers to spawncamp our borderland. I’d rather fight over Cliffside anyday of the week, even if it’d be our only tower. Ever.

Back in my old days Cliffside was notorious for being the only thing Kaineng could reliably take thanks to glitchy catapults. And holding it for more than 5 minutes was a brutal feat of death and despair! And we enjoyed it!

You’re just sad on FC because SF can’t actually dedicate to anything. They just zerg and leave when they see another map starting to get taken because they don’t want to fight upgraded doors and walls, and they don’t have the numbers to cover all the maps to spawn(even though they claim they do). Now, they do have enough to cover EB and a Borderland… but not much more. In the old days, Ferg squashed Kaineng and Devona on every map!(Really old days, when FC and BP swapped spots in T8 every other week early on).

Darxio.5672:

I wish SF has the numbers to spawncamp our borderland. I’d rather fight over Cliffside anyday of the week, even if it’d be our only tower. Ever.

Back in my old days Cliffside was notorious for being the only thing Kaineng could reliably take thanks to glitchy catapults. And holding it for more than 5 minutes was a brutal feat of death and despair! And we enjoyed it!

You’re just sad on FC because SF can’t actually dedicate to anything. They just zerg and leave when they see another map starting to get taken because they don’t want to fight upgraded doors and walls, and they don’t have the numbers to cover all the maps to spawn(even though they claim they do). Now, they do have enough to cover EB and a Borderland… but not much more. In the old days, Ferg squashed Kaineng and Devona on every map!(Really old days, when FC and BP swapped spots in T8 every other week early on).

LOL. Not even going to respond to this trolling except thanks for the laughs!

Trolling? I dare SF to hold Cliffside or Dawn’s Eyrie for 24 hours unbroken.

They can’t do it. They don’t have the manpower or coverage.

Or we do not want to. A lot of variables there. Just because you say we don’t have the manpower or coverage does not make it a fact.

Yes, that is called trolling. Thanks for playing. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Don’t call old war stories Trolling. I have yet to see Eredon or Ferguson camped by SF in both EB and their Borderland for a day, let alone an entire week.

I’ve seen horrible things that broke servers in my day, and they don’t phase me. SF isn’t even close to as scary as what I’ve seen in history. And that’s why you guys are nothing more than a joke and not a tangible threat like the other servers I’ve seen pass through. No commitment.

I’ve committed 12 hour shifts one week back in the day on Kaineng to stop people in our Borderland to prevent our keeps from ever flipping that entire week. We still only took second place. But 2 keeps NEVER flipped that entire week. But we still did it to show we could stop Devona if we tried. SF doesn’t have that discipline. And I don’t have my men from Kaineng either, but that’s here nor there.

SF is but a disorganized Horde. Yes, they overwhelm, but once they leave, we can retake everything. A real server that wants to move up in tier wouldn’t allow us to retake. You can do it in EB pretty well, so why not the borderlands? Stonemist got your tongue?

You lack discipline and would never cut it if you were outmanned. I am glad you are not of my server.

LOL, like some/a lot of the people on this board you only speak in generalization and like you are the only person who knows everything. Telling war stories is one thing, stating our entire server lacks organization is just trolling.

We have plenty of people that defend/upgrade/etc. in our BL and EB, which is where they want to play. Why do we need to defend structures on your BL if we do not want to? I just do not find it as fun as the other stuff I do.

And really, while we outnumber ET and FC our WvW population does not come close to matching most of the upper Tier servers. So camping all day/all week is just not in our blood right now, except our BL and EB. And if you looked at things with an open mind you would realize that our core WvW players work during US morning/day, hence why ET can cap everything early in the morning/late at nights/whatever.

Talking about the “old days” when the server you were on kicked kitten is just plain sad. And like I said before, it is trolling. This is a T8 frustration thread, not a “look at how cool I was back when…” thread. And if the other server(s) you were on were so awesome, why did you leave? Go back if that is all you can talk about.

Sure we have those that are disorganized. But every server does. And we were outmanned several times yesterday and still defended/took the structures we wanted to on the other BLs.

Remember, just because you think you are right does not make it fact. It makes it an opinion.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Or we do not want to. A lot of variables there. Just because you say we don’t have the manpower or coverage does not make it a fact.

Yes, that is called trolling. Thanks for playing. Nothing to see here. Move along.

What Darxio said is indeed a fact. SF lacks the ability to completely and utterly dominate ET(and Ferg) day in and day out. Thats why you are still hanging out with us buddy.

That being said, there are time periods where SF can mostly dominate. Why people are demoralized is because it coincides with the typical NA EST/PST primetime.

I have experienced weeks of complete and utter domination on ET where we could barely get out of our citadel and feel triumphant for taking a supply camp for long, long periodes of time. Thank jebus those days are behind us. SF is simply incapable of putting the lockdown into effect except for short periods of time. Until that happens or Anet modifies scoring(far more likely) this matchup will keep on keeping on.

You can try to say it is fact but it is not. Unless you have some population numbers of all server for all times and know what we are thinking as to why we do not stay and defend in other BLs?? Do you have that information to backup your “fact” claim?

No, because you do not and will not ever know those things. What we do know for fact is what you stated, we can own what we want, when we want. It is my belief that we do not want to always be playing defender in your BL. At least, I know that to be a fact for me. It is just not fun for me. See, that is an opinion because it is my belief. I can not say how others feel about defending on your BL, because I can not read their minds. But if they found it fun, wouldn’t they be staying there?

Now sure, if we had the WvW coverage/numbers to stay in your BL and make it worth while to spend that time defending the structures we take then we probably would. But if we only have 5 people that want to stay in another BL, then there is no point. And since you cannot (no matter how hard you try) know WHY they do not want to stay and defend in your BL, none of your arguments hold merit.

If you want to claim a fact (which you have not yet) then saying “SF lacks the DESIRE to completely and utterly dominate ET (and Ferg) day in and day out” would be appropriate.

I am not arguing that we do not defend much on your BL one way or another. But your reasoning is not fact. Just opinion.

Darxio.5672:

Don’t call old war stories Trolling. I have yet to see Eredon or Ferguson camped by SF in both EB and their Borderland for a day, let alone an entire week.

SF is but a disorganized Horde. Yes, they overwhelm, but once they leave, we can retake everything. A real server that wants to move up in tier wouldn’t allow us to retake. You can do it in EB pretty well, so why not the borderlands? Stonemist got your tongue?

You lack discipline and would never cut it if you were outmanned. I am glad you are not of my server.

Lol. Nationalism in the form of server loyalty, too funny. That being said, the game was newer when you went up against Kain, and they definitely had more numbers.

As for not having the numbers to man all maps? That’s obvious outside of prime time. Hence ET capping EB late night/morning. During prime time though? Lol, you’d be very surprised how many dedicated WvW players/guilds don’t come into WvW just because of how boring little to no resistance we receive, and how boring it has become.

Yes, the majority of players in SF WvW right now is a disorganized PvDoor horde. And yeah, we need more nightly numbers to hold that gap, right now it’s not worth upgrading/manning towers when we just lose them overnight. Yet when we make recruitment threads to bridge that nightly gap, we get flamed because we’re ‘already winning’.

So ehh, bring us a challenge, give us a chance and reason to show you what SF can really do. I can’t imagine your ET nightcapping via PvDoor is much fun for them after awhile.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

You can try to say it is fact but it is not. Unless you have some population numbers of all server for all times and know what we are thinking as to why we do not stay and defend in other BLs?? Do you have that information to backup your “fact” claim?

No, because you do not and will not ever know those things. What we do know for fact is what you stated, we can own what we want, when we want. It is my belief that we do not want to always be playing defender in your BL. At least, I know that to be a fact for me. It is just not fun for me. See, that is an opinion because it is my belief. I can not say how others feel about defending on your BL, because I can not read their minds. But if they found it fun, wouldn’t they be staying there?

Now sure, if we had the WvW coverage/numbers to stay in your BL and make it worth while to spend that time defending the structures we take then we probably would. But if we only have 5 people that want to stay in another BL, then there is no point. And since you cannot (no matter how hard you try) know WHY they do not want to stay and defend in your BL, none of your arguments hold merit.

If you want to claim a fact (which you have not yet) then saying “SF lacks the DESIRE to completely and utterly dominate ET (and Ferg) day in and day out” would be appropriate.

I am not arguing that we do not defend much on your BL one way or another. But your reasoning is not fact. Just opinion.

What you are saying then is that “SF lacks the DESIRE to move into T7.” You are strategically chosing through your own actions to stick around in T8. Thank you for chosing to be nice and not utterly dominate us. I find that comforting that you enjoy my company that much. More mintz on my pillows please! The previous opponents actually capable of dominating ET were not nearly so considerate of our feelings.

Runamok.9638:

What you are saying then is that “SF lacks the DESIRE to move into T7.” You are strategically chosing through your own actions to stick around in T8. Thank you for chosing to be nice and not utterly dominate us. I find that comforting that you enjoy my company that much. More mintz on my pillows please! The previous opponents actually capable of dominating ET were not nearly so considerate of our feelings.

To be fair, it is more fun fighting you guys after you cap keeps with your breakouts, than farming you at spawn. Maybe Kain found it more entertaining to camp you at spawn, SF usually looks down on spawn campers though during prime time map chat.

Well, Runamok: it’d be nothing but honest to say that Kaineng is/was a beast of another stripe. If I tended towards having game-induced nightmares, then the combo of DR/Kain’d definitely cause one. As for SF “choosing” to stick around in T8, remember how much had to go on – from our tier and others – for DR or Kain to escape the Black Hole of Glicko T8.
Can any of us actually blame SF at this point? I wouldn’t. Hell, sometimes it’s hard
enough for my FC self to bother. SF after the Devona/Kain Pain-Train? Ouch. Just.
Plain. Ouch. As I’ve said in other threads like this one, I keep at it because I’m just a
stubborn S.O.B.
The part what sucks is, we’d pretty much have to have SF max out for a week or two, and someone in T7 get beat into the bloody turf for the same period of time. If only
to create the needed upward pull to get ‘em out of T8. This is why folk have suggested
-many times- that ANet may wish to add a “ratings floor.” As we stand now, FC/ET’s
ratings are low enough that they vampirically devour the positive ratings SF would
logically gain in another tier, with their weeks of tailkicking.

Runamok.9638:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

You can try to say it is fact but it is not. Unless you have some population numbers of all server for all times and know what we are thinking as to why we do not stay and defend in other BLs?? Do you have that information to backup your “fact” claim?

No, because you do not and will not ever know those things. What we do know for fact is what you stated, we can own what we want, when we want. It is my belief that we do not want to always be playing defender in your BL. At least, I know that to be a fact for me. It is just not fun for me. See, that is an opinion because it is my belief. I can not say how others feel about defending on your BL, because I can not read their minds. But if they found it fun, wouldn’t they be staying there?

Now sure, if we had the WvW coverage/numbers to stay in your BL and make it worth while to spend that time defending the structures we take then we probably would. But if we only have 5 people that want to stay in another BL, then there is no point. And since you cannot (no matter how hard you try) know WHY they do not want to stay and defend in your BL, none of your arguments hold merit.

If you want to claim a fact (which you have not yet) then saying “SF lacks the DESIRE to completely and utterly dominate ET (and Ferg) day in and day out” would be appropriate.

I am not arguing that we do not defend much on your BL one way or another. But your reasoning is not fact. Just opinion.

What you are saying then is that “SF lacks the DESIRE to move into T7.” You are strategically chosing through your own actions to stick around in T8. Thank you for chosing to be nice and not utterly dominate us. I find that comforting that you enjoy my company that much. More mintz on my pillows please! The previous opponents actually capable of dominating ET were not nearly so considerate of our feelings.

You can try and twist what I am saying to match your trolling but it will not work, at least not on me.

SF has proven we should move to the next Tier up just by score alone. Perma-capping your little tower in your little BL does nothing to change that. Our curbstomping you by such a large margin should move us up on it’s own, but we are dealing with Glicko.

Call if what you want, but you are still trolling and still not making a real point. And you are using things other trolls have used before and they, at least, were more successful than you have been. Are you, as you say above, being considerate of my feelings then?

LOL, this is actually enjoyable since you make no sense and offer no real argument that actually makes me think. Please, keep showing your trollability so I can get through my work day.

All points well taken and understood Advent.

We can all agree that Glicko is “the problem” here. SF has to do what it takes it crawl its way out of the Glicko Ghetto. SF need to follow the Kain/DR example and utterly destroy us to the point of spawn camping us on every BL 24/7 in order to make it to T7.

I just don’t jive with the assertion that SF is fully capable of complete and utter domination but does not want to institute these measures. I want them to come out en masse to end this match-up so that we have a new big brother to cry to mom about!

Runamok.9638:

All points well taken and understood Advent.

We can all agree that Glicko is “the problem” here. SF has to do what it takes it crawl its way out of the Glicko Ghetto. SF need to follow the Kain/DR example and utterly destroy us to the point of spawn camping us on every BL 24/7 in order to make it to T7.

I just don’t jive with the assertion that SF is fully capable of complete and utter domination but does not want to institute these measures. I want them to come out en masse to end this match-up so that we have a new big brother to cry to mom about!

If that is what you want then why don’t you all just stop playing WvW until we leave this Tier?

I am very interested in this answer. Because by your reasoning, we should do this “utter domination” thing you talk about to get out of this Tier. And my reasoning is that perma-capping other BLs is not fun, not what “we” want to do.

So I suggest, if you want us out then stop capping anything on any map. Please, answer that.

Runamok.9638:

All points well taken and understood Advent.

We can all agree that Glicko is “the problem” here. SF has to do what it takes it crawl its way out of the Glicko Ghetto. SF need to follow the Kain/DR example and utterly destroy us to the point of spawn camping us on every BL 24/7 in order to make it to T7.

I just don’t jive with the assertion that SF is fully capable of complete and utter domination but does not want to institute these measures. I want them to come out en masse to end this match-up so that we have a new big brother to cry to mom about!

1. There’s a little part of me inside that is absolutely thrilled that my “Glicko Ghetto” descriptor for Tier 8 (or more accurately, my boyfriend’s descriptor that I stole) is catching on.

2. Kain and DR’s situation (and the way they were able to claw out of the T8 Glicko Ghetto) is completely different than SF’s. In the new post-free server transfer reality, SF represents what a server can expect if they are unfortunate enough to drop down into T8 now that free server transfers are no more.

I know it’s probably impossible but if you want change to happen within the current WvW structure then one or two servers might need to take a week or a couple weeks off to let which ever server has the highest population get as many points as possible so they bust through the tier wall. There will be complaints from a lot of people which will make this solution unlikely but it will probably be faster than waiting for Anet to change what they need to fix this problem.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

Runamok.9638:

All points well taken and understood Advent.

We can all agree that Glicko is “the problem” here. SF has to do what it takes it crawl its way out of the Glicko Ghetto. SF need to follow the Kain/DR example and utterly destroy us to the point of spawn camping us on every BL 24/7 in order to make it to T7.

I just don’t jive with the assertion that SF is fully capable of complete and utter domination but does not want to institute these measures. I want them to come out en masse to end this match-up so that we have a new big brother to cry to mom about!

If that is what you want then why don’t you all just stop playing WvW until we leave this Tier?

I am very interested in this answer. Because by your reasoning, we should do this “utter domination” thing you talk about to get out of this Tier. And my reasoning is that perma-capping other BLs is not fun, not what “we” want to do.

So I suggest, if you want us out then stop capping anything on any map. Please, answer that.

I didn’t take a week off when getting steamrolled by servers that actually could steamroll us 24/7, which SF is completely incapable of doing. I could personally could less if SF stays or leaves in T8. I am not a whiner about SF having superior numbers kinda guy. I play for the competition and I can do that against anyone. The less than favorable odds make the fights even that much more interesting for me. That’s why a lot of players still on ET have not jumped ship long ago. The fair weather fans left long ago.

So sorry furnance you gotta earn your way outa the glicko ghetto, no handouts from me nor do I expect others in ET would really jive with that from my experience. See you rallied with your troops earning points one cap at a time!

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

Darxio.5672:

Don’t call old war stories Trolling. I have yet to see Eredon or Ferguson camped by SF in both EB and their Borderland for a day, let alone an entire week.

SF is but a disorganized Horde. Yes, they overwhelm, but once they leave, we can retake everything. A real server that wants to move up in tier wouldn’t allow us to retake. You can do it in EB pretty well, so why not the borderlands? Stonemist got your tongue?

You lack discipline and would never cut it if you were outmanned. I am glad you are not of my server.

Lol. Nationalism in the form of server loyalty, too funny. That being said, the game was newer when you went up against Kain, and they definitely had more numbers.

As for not having the numbers to man all maps? That’s obvious outside of prime time. Hence ET capping EB late night/morning. During prime time though? Lol, you’d be very surprised how many dedicated WvW players/guilds don’t come into WvW just because of how boring little to no resistance we receive, and how boring it has become.

Yes, the majority of players in SF WvW right now is a disorganized PvDoor horde. And yeah, we need more nightly numbers to hold that gap, right now it’s not worth upgrading/manning towers when we just lose them overnight. Yet when we make recruitment threads to bridge that nightly gap, we get flamed because we’re ‘already winning’.

So ehh, bring us a challenge, give us a chance and reason to show you what SF can really do. I can’t imagine your ET nightcapping via PvDoor is much fun for them after awhile.

errrr…
he never fought against kain… well except when he got bored for a day when transfers were free and daily and i recall him visiting us ferglings… he was on kain. back when they were tiny. hes talking about dr. and as well as i can remember, sf has comparable numbers to what dr had.

Runamok.9638:

So sorry furnance you gotta earn your way outa the glicko ghetto, no handouts from me nor do I expect others in ET would really jive with that from my experience.

I’d argue that we “earned” our way out a long time ago, but broken maths is what’s going to keep us stuck here curbsomping far longer than Kain and DR ever had to do in order “earn” their escape from the Glicko Ghetto. :p

Also, I greatly dislike the argument that other servers should “simply just take a week off from WvW” to get rid of us. That’s not a solution, that just compounds the problem. Something like that just pushes ET’s and FC’s scores down even further (meaning that the next unfortunate server to end up in Tier 8 will see a massive rating drain and will likely be stuck in the Glicko Ghetto even longer than us).

the only solution to this problem is by resetting the point rating for all servers according to the tiers, for example :

Tier 1 – 1800
Tier 2 – 1700
Tier 3 – 1600
Tier 4 – 1500
Tier 5 – 1400
Tier 6 – 1300
Tier 7 – 1200
Tier 8 – 1100

… and reset it every 4 months……

A Random fact since I’m bored: Did you guys saw that a T1 server have basically the same rating as the whole T8? Rating keep being stolen with every server that goes up…

Perhaps a unity buff needs to be created.. one where another server can buddy up with another .. and have a mixed team that can give benefits from another tier?
Must have x number of each for this to happen and can only happen during x times? not sure if thats a solution or will add to the problem.. since I havent really thought it thru :P