Guild Wars 2

This isn’t a whine post or nightcapping post, this is more of a question for the WvW players out there, what solution do you think would be possible to fix this? At the moment there is absolutely no fun to be had in the top3 match ups, it’s all completely one sided stomp due to vizunah having more DEDICATED night time players. What could Desolation and FShiverpeaks do to balance this complete stomp. I have been to WvW during night time on Shiverpeaks and on Desolation(home server) and I would say the numbers in each borderlands is like this 150~ Vizunah vs 15 Shiverpeaks vs 15 Desolation. What is the solution? Will we ever get a balanced top3 matchup?

http://i.imgur.com/SdO1H.jpg

If looking at the score as the goal for your fight – then you’ll never receive ‘balance’ matchup as there’ll always be some who can field more players at given time than you.

Unless ANet caves to the people who want WvW to be sPvP and/or removes the 24/7 aspect of the game.
In which case I think they’ll loose many players who came here for the WvW game.

Xandax.1753:

If looking at the score as the goal for your fight – then you’ll never receive ‘balance’ matchup as there’ll always be some who can field more players at given time than you.

Unless ANet caves to the people who want WvW to be sPvP and/or removes the 24/7 aspect of the game.
In which case I think they’ll loose many players who came here for the WvW game.

What is the goal then? How can WvW be any fun for anyone if you wake up at 9 in the morning and discover that all your upgraded keeps, all your upgraded supplies, your castle, EVERYTHING you’ve worked for the entire 12 hour day is owned by the opposing server and you have nothing. What is the fun in this?

Especially if you are the TOP3 servers you will ALWAYS be matched against Vizunah. This match up will always repeat itself. Vizuna vs Shiverpeak vs Desolation/Riverside. Tell me how can players from Shiverpeak EVER have ANY fun in WvW if they will ALWAYS be matched against Vizunah and wake up with 0% of map control?

Does your fun come from watching the scoreboard or playing the objectives ?

Because I prefer taking a tower or a camp over waiting in an T3 keep for enemies to attack. The scoreboard doesn’t even bring anything to WvW, I don’t understand how people can think “they have more points, we’ll never catch up, better not go in WvW”, isn’t the purpose of WvW to actually fight to defend or capture objectives ?

It’s not about the points. You work hard durnig the day to get keeps/towers and UPGRADE them using your hard earned money and in the morning when you wake up you have 0 BASES LEFT. This is just a major morale hit and just not fun. SCORE has nothing to do with it.

I wondering how a week VS vs Arborstone vs hmmmm JS ^^ would go

There is 2 options :

1) FS and Deso/Riverside grow nightshift armies and stay in the 1st bracket.
2) FS and Deso/Riverside don’t grow nightshift armies and will be replaced by servers with 24/7 WvW population.

Kada Feed.1782:

There is 2 options :

1) FS and Deso/Riverside grow nightshift armies and stay in the 1st bracket.
2) FS and Deso/Riverside don’t grow nightshift armies and will be replaced by servers with 24/7 WvW population.

They have a nightshift army: just look at the queue graphs. They have less queue, but queue means that the WvW zone is already at its max population.

VS does not have more people in WvW. It just mean they have more people waiting to enter WvW.

No, they have MORE queue during primetime… Look at the scale on the left of the graph. It goes up to 600 fors VS, and only 450 for FS… Learn to understand a graph please.

Esaam.9042:

Kada Feed.1782:

There is 2 options :

1) FS and Deso/Riverside grow nightshift armies and stay in the 1st bracket.
2) FS and Deso/Riverside don’t grow nightshift armies and will be replaced by servers with 24/7 WvW population.

They have a nightshift army: just look at the queue graphs. They have less queue, but queue means that the WvW zone is already at its max population.

VS does not have more people in WvW. It just mean they have more people waiting to enter WvW.

I don’t think you can read the graph or maybe you are missing your glasses, the only time Shiverpeak had full WvW was on 15.09 and 16.09 which is FRIDAY and SATURDAY WEEKEND. Look at graph on 17.09, Shiverpeak 0 queue not full server and Vizunah big queue all night.

PS: When queue was even on 15.09 and 16.09, Vizunah was 2nd place and Shiverpeak 1st.

Maybe WvW should update scores less frequently during off-peak hours in order to make nighttime capping less profitable.

For example, during night time, scores only add up at 50% the usual rate while being 150% between 6 PM and midnight.

Things should get interesting if Riverside takes 3rd place. Their queue is even bigger and larger than Vizunah’s

TheBob.9863:

Xandax.1753:

If looking at the score as the goal for your fight – then you’ll never receive ‘balance’ matchup as there’ll always be some who can field more players at given time than you.

Unless ANet caves to the people who want WvW to be sPvP and/or removes the 24/7 aspect of the game.
In which case I think they’ll loose many players who came here for the WvW game.

What is the goal then? How can WvW be any fun for anyone if you wake up at 9 in the morning and discover that all your upgraded keeps, all your upgraded supplies, your castle, EVERYTHING you’ve worked for the entire 12 hour day is owned by the opposing server and you have nothing. What is the fun in this?

Especially if you are the TOP3 servers you will ALWAYS be matched against Vizunah. This match up will always repeat itself. Vizuna vs Shiverpeak vs Desolation/Riverside. Tell me how can players from Shiverpeak EVER have ANY fun in WvW if they will ALWAYS be matched against Vizunah and wake up with 0% of map control?

The goal is to play WvW and fight players when you can.
Not obsessing over that some virtual keeps got hit when you aren’t playing.
If your 12 hour day of ‘work’ is measured in the scoreboard – I’d say you’re not playing the game to have fun and your usage of ‘work’ is correct.
However, that 12 hour of ‘work’ should be the reward in itself. Did you have fun the 12 hours?

Many people wanted open world PvP and have been wanting it for years; and this is how that functions.
If you want to enforce structure, you’ll need to enforce when and how many people can play, so the ‘open world PvP’ will be nothing but a sPvP map.

“Does your fun come from watching the scoreboard or playing the objectives ?”

The 2 arent mutually exclusive; anyway my fun comes from “watching” the score?
Well, yeah…
The goal is to score more points. Otherwise why even bother having it in the first place?
What’s the point of having score in any game then? Ya let’s remove scoring board from football or basket, who watches it anyway…

Please dont force me to write why having a score and winning over somebody is the whole meaning in a competition based game…
I hope you can figure it out by yourself.

The fun for him is to play WvW 8 hours trying to get keeps and upgrade them and wake up next day and have 0 keeps, 0 towers, 0 supply. That is the fun!!!!!

Glor.2485:

No, they have MORE queue during primetime… Look at the scale on the left of the graph. It goes up to 600 fors VS, and only 450 for FS… Learn to understand a graph please.

So what? Having more queue does not mean you have more people playing in WvW… It only means that more people are waiting to enter WvW.

I’m just wondering if we’re getting Trolled here or if those peeps are serrious in everything the’re posting.

TheBob.9863:

The fun for him is to play WvW 8 hours trying to get keeps and upgrade them and wake up next day and have 0 keeps, 0 towers, 0 supply. That is the fun!!!!!

If I had fun for 8 hours of WvW, then it does not matter that the keeps are taken away each night. I still had fun those 8 hours. It’s a game, and while it’s competitive, it’s not a competition.

Sounds like what you want is sPvP and not open world PvP.
There you can have all the enforced structure and population balance you so desire.

it’s pretty much too late to fix it now unless anet does some big changes… we in desolation have stopped upgrading stuff and people are not bothered to invade anything else but supplycamps plus a lot of our players has changed to the winning server to gain stuff let’s just have as much fun as possible with what we have, and hope we’re matched with servers where people sleep at night!

There have been people jumping onto the opposing worlds and attempting to sabotage them. Using up supply in keeps to build useless siege weapons, moving orbs out, spying and using the commander icon to get people to trust them into doing attacks that would only serve to get them wiped.

LoL, seriously? Seriously! move servers…go to Fissure of Woe for a few days…then you won’t whine or cry about your top 3 server problems. I am on the bottom WvWvW server and I just go have fun. On my graph there are the other two pie slices and Fissure of Woe’s sliver..which a toothpick makes fun of for being skinny. Does it matter? No, not really. I can still find people in WvWvW to attack an objective with and have a bit of fun. If your that focused on having all the keeps then move to the server that you are crying about. Problem Solved, enjoy the hours waiting in queue. I’ll stay on my server and enter instantly. As long as you enjoy the game, you win.

I am not a WvW player, because the mass zerging is not appealing to me. Still I follow the discussion out of curiosity and there’s one thing I don’t get regarding the whole ‘night shift’ issue.

You complain about getting ripped off your achievements, that you accomplished all day long, after waking up the next day, right? The reason being that a larger number of players on one specific server is active during a time, you do not want or are able to play.

But why is playing during the day par for the course? I mean, what about the working population, or rather, just the people who have a [i]limited[/] amount of playtime at their disposal? E.g. – a huge chunk of the player demographic will be able to play only for a few hours in the evening. Their ‘blind spot’ is even bigger than just the night. For some it might be some hours in the morning or even only every other odd day.

Point being, that being able to play daily and for long stretches of time (up to all day long) is already a deviation from the norm. Essentially, the Vizunah players are beating you with your own weapons. If you cry injustice on them playing at night, you seem to forget this, you know?

What if there was some kind of mechanism, that would alleviate your situation? Could the situation be called fair then?

I’d say no. It would just be in your favor…food for thought maybe.

Maybe I am missing something here, but where are the leaderboard showing which server is at which place ?

It’s the sticky in this forum:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Current-world-rankings/first#post82393

Aepervius

The list that Nyota posted is their reference and claim they’re the 2nd or third EU server. What they actually forget is that not all servers are filled with a bunch of hardcore no-lifes able to play between 10 to 15 hours every day since launch.

That list may have some truth in it, for sure, but it’s certainly not, and probably far from, the reality in terms of potential of servers and population.

Let’s see when a lot of other servers finaly got their WvsW population at lvl 80 and properly stuffed.

Ha , thanks. I somehow missed that.

“If I had fun for 8 hours of WvW, then it does not matter that the keeps are taken away each night. I still had fun those 8 hours. It’s a game, and while it’s competitive, it’s not a competition.”

The fun “factor” also encompasse the gaining of something, as in a satisfaction of having gained something like conquering a keep. When this achievement gets taken away in a unfair and lame way is normal to feel frustration. So it’s perfectly comprehensible to not being able to have fun when, no matter what you do, you know that in few hours all your hard work is gonna be stripped away by what i can call “cheating”.
Do you really needed such explanation? Isnt it obvious? why do you keep defending something that is clearly flawed?

Do you really needed such explanation? Isnt it obvious? why do you keep defending something that is clearly flawed?

He benefits from it. That’s why.

If looking at the score as the goal for your fight – then you’ll never receive ‘balance’ matchup as there’ll always be some who can field more players at given time than you.

nobody expects perfectly balanced matches. It’s not a necessity thanks to the 3 faction WvW. In fact during daytime almost all matchups are very balanced across all servers.

The only difference in who wins the fight is nighttime capping by one server while the other 2 are asleep. leading to a mass exodus to that server.
Arenanet needs to fix it quickly before things are broken beyond repair once server transfers are closed.

Unless ANet caves to the people who want WvW to be sPvP and/or removes the 24/7 aspect of the game.
In which case I think they’ll loose many players who came here for the WvW game.

They will not lose but KEEP players playing WvW because the enjoyment is retained. Not everyone who came for the WvW enjoys the horribly broken system that is in place. You are giving all the WvW players who enjoy real fights a bad name. Stop it.

In fact I would say it’s a minority (maybe a majority of the population on some servers french or otherwise ;-)
Maybe they lose some of the 24/7 no lifers and US/EU timezone emigrants who are PvEing the zone during nighttime, sure. They are the root of the problem though. What a nice solution then! :-)

I dont think the kids are the problem really. The kids are raiding the zones at night.

It’s a very adult problem having to sleep at night. Edited by moderator: Edited, since the previous message does not exist any more; thus, the last part of this is unnecessary

But why is playing during the day par for the course? I mean, what about the working population, or rather, just the people who have a [i]limited[/] amount of playtime at their disposal? E.g. – a huge chunk of the player demographic will be able to play only for a few hours in the evening. Their ‘blind spot’ is even bigger than just the night. For some it might be some hours in the morning or even only every other odd day.
Point being, that being able to play daily and for long stretches of time (up to all day long) is already a deviation from the norm. Essentially, the Vizunah players are beating you with your own weapons. If you cry injustice on them playing at night, you seem to forget this, you know?
What if there was some kind of mechanism, that would alleviate your situation? Could the situation be called fair then?
I’d say no. It would just be in your favor…food for thought maybe.

That’S not really a valid argument at all. And based on a common misconception about the issue at hand, which is assuming this is a personal issue of a specific player and when he gets to have his cake and eat it too. It’s not.

It’s not about his guild and his friends either. It’s not about people working unpleasant hours and being only able to play at night and it’s not about nationality.

This is about the reality of how games like this are played. While you are right, that many people have very small windows of opportunity to get some free gaming time in their schedules, this is not at all an issue because of the healthy server populations, mostly.

During the day you will have hundreds of players trying to get into WvW at all times, obviously it’s a steady increase little by little from the early morning hours up to the sudden surge at prime time. But there will be enough people queuing at all times of the day. The day. During night literally 9.5 out of 10 people HAVE to sleep.

Unless they don’t ofc, which is the case on only a handful of servers where people migrate to because by now everyone knows the WvW matches are being decided by who has the bigger force at night, thus accentuating the problem even more.

Seeing how having the bigger force at night in the top EU bracket for example means 50+ on VS and not even half that from the other 2 servers combined it’s not hard to see why the system does not work.

This is not an issue of being “more determined” or putting more time into the game, something that rightfully should players give an advantage, albeit not a disproportionate one.
The issue is you dont even have to put more time into the game to prevail, you dont have to apply the better strategy against your opponent to win, just make sure you put the time you do have in at – for most people – prohibitively late/early hours, where the vast majority of most servers is forced to sleep wether they want it or not. It’s broken. Once the novelty of the game has worn off, there is no reason at all to join a match 7 days in progress already, 7 days to go, that has been decided within the first two nights already.

I fail to see how you adressed my quoted argument in your post, sorry.

Imo wvwvw will feature population/time related issues by design. It’s just a matter of who takes the shaft, not if. And the people, who are complaining about the nightcapping at the moment claim to demand justice/balance, although they are already in a privileged situation and simply demand the imbalance to shift in their favor instead of someone else’s – it’s the loads-of-time-at-hands guys complaining about the timezone-spanning-language-united-fortunates.

All the while, the majority of people, who are under actual time constraints couldn’t care less and deal with it….

I agree with you on the situation being frustrating. But there’s no imaginable and feasible change that is able to fix it – you could just give someone else the stick. But who ‘earns’ to get privileged in your opinion?

This issue, or even more general, the fact that numbers>all is the exact reason why I could never care for ZergvZerg. But some of my mates just enjoy the group experience, the whole Big Battle thing – to each his own I guess, but stop thinking you could ever balance something like this.

Instead of thinking of the server rankings as reflections of skill/capabilities/strategy/organization, you should simply see it as a measure of server activity. Only this way they make actual sense. And this way, they are perfectly accurate, too.

They simply play more than you.

Nyota.7062:

I agree with you on the situation being frustrating. But there’s no imaginable and feasible change that is able to fix it – you could just give someone else the stick. But who ‘earns’ to get privileged in your opinion?

You have to admit that the current situation where the overwhelming majority playing at prime time gets the shaft to protect the vanishingly small minority playing at 4AM is just about the worst possible system…

Put servers with queues at night versus servers who has queus at night.

If Far Shiverpeaks remain second and Vizunah Sqaure stays first htne it grows old real fast.

I little diversity goes a long way.

What i realy like to see is USA – Europe – Asia – Australlia mixed into each other.
Why ? becuase it will be much easier to build up 24/7 community’s on servers.
Witch in the end makes the balance alot better.

They should really remove the scoreboard from the players’ sight. It should be an internal tool to match the servers against one another. The way it is currently only makes players from losing servers throw in the towel.

Wait a few weeks, then you’ll see VS 3W dedicated players decreasing…