Guild Wars 2

So in our WvW, and I’m presuming others, there are some smaller elite squads, like 3-10 players, that will roam around and oftentimes defeat much larger groups, sometimes even zergs.

I personally love this style of gameplay, and I’ve played with a lot of other small squad members in-game…and in doing so I noticed one thing.

Nearly ALL players in these small squads come from one of four professions, and they are (in order of prevalence):

Thief
Mesmer
Elementalist
Guardian

I very rarely see someone from another prof in these squads. I’m guessing that this is because you REALLY need a lot of mobility and survivability to take on twice your numbers and win, and those four classes have it.

So I’m curious, is there anyone out there that is in a small squad, and has managed to make it work with a prof that isn’t in the 4 listed above?? If so, what kind of tactics do you guys use?

Warriors fit in.

We have 3 primary builds for roaming.

Initiatior: High mobility – surviveability, forces fights by getting on opponents even at long distances and survives long enough for the rest of us to get there. Sword/shield+greatsword. Second fastest build in the game out of any class, faster would be sword/warhorn+greatsword warrior, but you lose a lot of surviveability

Shout healer, axe warrior
Banner warrior are two other builds we use.

We also like utilizing a necro, well timed corrupt boon helps deal with bunkerstyle guaridans and DS theives.

I have seen engineers used to great effect. the amount of aoe cc they drop is great.

Ranger i think is the worst class for small group play, doesnt have too much utility that isnt outshone by another class. Their aoe root is handy however (especially for rooting invisible thieves), but longish cd.

Hammer/shout warriors are really a great class to add to zerg busting. The amount of control they dish out is welcome.

It’s not that others classes aren’t worth bringing, it’s just that certain ones do zergs better than others. You want survivability, control, on demand damage and preferably non-condition based.

I would have said condition necros are amazing at zerg busting, and they can be, but you might run into a group that knows how to use their aoe condition removal, and one aoe condition utility can ruin your day. Still a solid class for this job.

I wouldn’t say I’m elite, but I do roam alone and have managed to take down 2 to 3 opponents at once. But I’m a mesmer and we’re OP because we have portal. ;P

I often see warrior running around in small groups too. But, for the most part it’s the four you mentioned.

I think a warrior with warhorn is high up there for a 5-man party for the constant speed buff that the class provides. Speed is required for small 5-mans.

Draygo.9473:

Warriors fit in.

We have 3 primary builds for roaming.

Initiatior: High mobility – surviveability, forces fights by getting on opponents even at long distances and survives long enough for the rest of us to get there. Sword/shield+greatsword. Second fastest build in the game out of any class, faster would be sword/warhorn+greatsword warrior, but you lose a lot of surviveability

Shout healer, axe warrior
Banner warrior are two other builds we use.

We also like utilizing a necro, well timed corrupt boon helps deal with bunkerstyle guaridans and DS theives.

I have seen engineers used to great effect. the amount of aoe cc they drop is great.

Ranger i think is the worst class for small group play, doesnt have too much utility that isnt outshone by another class. Their aoe root is handy however (especially for rooting invisible thieves), but longish cd.

At least in my experience, the ability to escape is absolutely required for a small squad. Even if you aren’t “running away” you really need to be able to just get back, heal and re-engage. Staying engaged to a zerg for a long period of time without leaving and re-engaging (stealth counts) is suicide…they will eventually all see you, target you, and you will die.

So I could see warrior and engy being alright in theory just because warrior can have tons of mobility and engy can stealth with combo fields or certain items. Though I don’t think they are as good at escaping at the four main classes I see.

Necro though…I just don’t see how they can escape anything. I’ve never had a necro get away from me…normally they just take a little while longer to burn down, but a large HP pool is no way to escape a big zerg…you either have to make it so they can’t see you, or get so far away that they can’t hurt you.

And ranger…yeah, they need some help IMO. They have a lot of mobility with GS or 1H sword, but they seem to not have very good condition removal, and considering that you will be crippled, chilled, or immobilized probably like 5 times when fighting a zerg…that is killer.

If rangers had a blink, it may be possible to use them…their Entangle elite is freaking amazing for fighting zergs, it’s just unfortunate that they don’t seem to have enough escapability to survive using it.

Xavi.6591:

I think a warrior with warhorn is high up there for a 5-man party for the constant speed buff that the class provides. Speed is required for small 5-mans.

Ele can also provide perma-swiftness.

i actually think having 5-6 roaming squads about 4 people each. but let them be in constant communication with each other so that they can reinforce another squad.
as a ninja roamer you want to avoid crossed swords on the map. that alerts where you are and where the zerg is. in a border lands if your a roamer yourself, you can predict where they are going to be (which is gonna be the camp) and then take em out yourself. most pugs don’t report enemy movements of less than 5 people after they die.

a good roamer should be able to solo a camp and capture in less then 3.5 minutes. no all the safe jump spots. and should be able to act as a stealth crew. the zerg is there to draw attention. you are there to deny resources, and take out reinforcements.

rangers have pretty good condition removals if you trait. Empathic bond basically removes all conditions every 10 seconds, and signet of renewal works aswell. learn how to run away and be constantly aware and book it before it even gets bad.

Phzt.9864:

Hammer/shout warriors are really a great class to add to zerg busting. The amount of control they dish out is welcome.

It’s not that others classes aren’t worth bringing, it’s just that certain ones do zergs better than others. You want survivability, control, on demand damage and preferably non-condition based.

I would have said condition necros are amazing at zerg busting, and they can be, but you might run into a group that knows how to use their aoe condition removal, and one aoe condition utility can ruin your day. Still a solid class for this job.

Yah hammer warriors seem like they could be okay because of the CC. But they will HAVE to carry GS as well I would think just for the mobility skills.

Also, I personally think that D/D Ele may be a better choice for your CC provider…they have a very good amount of CC and better escapability than a warrior (in my experience).

Mesmers are not quick… We have 2 ways to get swiftness, curtain and randomly from chaos storm. And to add to that curtain does not stack with any existing swiftness so we have to chuck down a chaos storm after curtain and run through it at such a speed we are lucky not to just get a couple ticks of retaliation.

Even when I run range increase and cool-down reductions on manipulation (for blink) I still find myself painfully slow…

Then again, as previously stated, we are op because we have portal so… Lol

Warriors dont need to carry GS. They only carry it if they dont have a perma-self swiftness. If your running warhorn/rage, you dont need a GS.

Condition removal every 10 seconds is pretty worthless, as often it wont remove cripple, chill, or immobilize.

As far as a necro is concerned we have to make sure our group provides the mobility needed to the necro (mesmer portal, or provided permaswift). Necros really really help win fights, with boon stripping, chill, and fear.

D/D’s eles have good CC, but their escapability has issues with imobilize. Warriors break immobilize with mobile strikes. D/D Eles also arnt quite as fast as warriors can be. But they are both top tier so i’m definatly not knocking on the ele here.

Ranger is just.

Also keep in mind that necro and guardian are about equal in mobility…

bradderzh.2378:

Mesmers are not quick… We have 2 ways to get swiftness, curtain and randomly from chaos storm. And to add to that curtain does not stack with any existing swiftness so we have to chuck down a chaos storm after curtain and run through it at such a speed we are lucky not to just get a couple ticks of retaliation.

Even when I run range increase and cool-down reductions on manipulation (for blink) I still find myself painfully slow…

Then again, as previously stated, we are op because we have portal so… Lol

Mesmers can have a good deal of teleports and invis…this alone is enough to get away, you don’t necessarily need to be fast. Add to this that mesmers have LOTS of abilities that summon clones that will distract multiple enemies, and you can see that it has a lot of escapability.

Also, a mesmer can get near perma-swiftness with 6 runes of the centaur and the mirror heal if you really wanted it.

bradderzh.2378:

Mesmers are not quick… We have 2 ways to get swiftness, curtain and randomly from chaos storm. And to add to that curtain does not stack with any existing swiftness so we have to chuck down a chaos storm after curtain and run through it at such a speed we are lucky not to just get a couple ticks of retaliation.

Even when I run range increase and cool-down reductions on manipulation (for blink) I still find myself painfully slow…

Then again, as previously stated, we are op because we have portal so… Lol

That’s why you need a class that can provide perma-swiftness in your group like warrior or elementalist.

bradderzh.2378:

Mesmers are not quick… We have 2 ways to get swiftness, curtain and randomly from chaos storm. And to add to that curtain does not stack with any existing swiftness so we have to chuck down a chaos storm after curtain and run through it at such a speed we are lucky not to just get a couple ticks of retaliation.

Even when I run range increase and cool-down reductions on manipulation (for blink) I still find myself painfully slow…

Then again, as previously stated, we are op because we have portal so… Lol

Timewarp, mesmers have timewarp. The single most powerful elite in the game to have, you would be silly to run a 4 man without it. It pretty much lets you 4v10 and win, over any other skill the game. And its a 10 second wide area combofield.

Draygo.9473:

Warriors dont need to carry GS. They only carry it if they dont have a perma-self swiftness. If your running warhorn/rage, you dont need a GS.

Condition removal every 10 seconds is pretty worthless, as often it wont remove cripple, chill, or immobilize.

As far as a necro is concerned we have to make sure our group provides the mobility needed to the necro (mesmer portal, or provided permaswift). Necros really really help win fights, with boon stripping, chill, and fear.

D/D’s eles have good CC, but their escapability has issues with imobilize. Warriors break immobilize with mobile strikes. D/D Eles also arnt quite as fast as warriors can be. But they are both top tier so i’m definatly not knocking on the ele here.

Ranger is just.

Also keep in mind that necro and guardian are about equal in mobility…

Guardian has two targetable 1200 range teleports…that is how they get away. I definitely don’t know much about Necro…but I don’t think they have anything like this. Correct me if I’m wrong.

So I play a D/D Ele, but not a warrior so I’m not sure how good their cond removal is, but I can tell you that a D/D Ele can be built to have some of the best cond removal in the game. My Ele literally SIX condition removal skills in my current build, and one of them pulses condition removal for like 2.5 seconds. So unless all my cooldowns are up, immobilize isn’t really an issue for me.

Now about the warrior not having to carry GS…swiftness is not going to get you away from a zerg. Believe me, they will catch you. Something like GS 3, 5, then bull’s rush might get you away though. IMO, you really need those burst speed skills if you want to escape…swiftness helps you lose them over time, but you absolutely HAVE to get out of CC range to even have a chance, and those charge skills do that for you.

Anyway, I think you bring up a good point about Necro when you say that your group provides mobility. Because I think that if you are highly organized, and have a mesmer drop a portal entre kind of far from the fight, and then pop portal again when you need extraction, then you could get a less mobile class out of the fryer.

Still though, this requires significant coordination and planning to compensate for a class’ lack of mobility…and there are a bunch of things that could foul up this plan.

Hey I love my class I was only addressing the part which spoke about mobility. The only teleports we have are blink, and a small distance phase retreat.

If you are running in a small group I think wasting a utility on short duration single target stealth like decoy is a little selfish. Yeah it may keep you alive a little longer but I would much rather pack some stomp denial like illusion of life, or stuns/aoe blinds but I digress…

bradderzh.2378:

Hey I love my class I was only addressing the part which spoke about mobility. The only teleports we have are blink, and a small distance phase retreat.

If you are running in a small group I think wasting a utility on short duration single target stealth like decoy is a little selfish. Yeah it may keep you alive a little longer but I would much rather pack some stomp denial like illusion of life, or stuns/aoe blinds but I digress…

Well remember that dead mesmers do no damage. Decoy is not really selfish, it can save you, and save your group from trying to save you. Also remember that anytime enemy players go after your clone, and not you or another real player…that is one attack that did not find its mark. Misdirection alone is a wonderful asset that mesmers bring to a group.

The way I see it is that when you fight a big group of players, it’s kind of like dealing with a constant snowball effect. The longer you remain “targetable” and in range, the more players will “wake up” and go for you. Eventually, there will be too many on you and you will be screwed.

You absolutely have to keep the misdirection up to survive. I know with my Ele, I have like maybe 2-5 seconds or so to freely DPS 5x my number after charging in before they start to wake up and I’m in trouble. And once all those players become away and start to DPS/CC me…I normally have to get out of there unless they are all really bad or underleveled/geared.

Engi, Ranger, Necro all need serious work, not sure when or if it will happen. Anet seem blind to the enormous gap between some classes, I’m not saying a well played X class is always going to be bad but what those three classes bring to the table the other 5 can do better. Its a shame really.

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

You don’t need certain professions to make good roaming comps just players who know what they are doing.

dekyos.1548:

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

I think we’re more talking about “burst” movement skills that move you a fairly large distance in a short amount of time, like Ride The Lightning, Blink, Charge or Shadow Step. Engy does have one of these at least in rocket boots I know.

Anyway, I would like to hear about how you pull this off with Engy…when the heat is on you, how do you get away before you are burned down?

Bunzy.8674:

You don’t need certain professions to make good roaming comps just players who know what they are doing.

Try doing it with ranger…

And I mean that seriously, I would love to see someone who can make a great ranger roamer.

Creslin.1758:

dekyos.1548:

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

I think we’re more talking about “burst” movement skills that move you a fairly large distance in a short amount of time, like Ride The Lightning, Blink, Charge or Shadow Step. Engy does have one of these at least in rocket boots I know.

Anyway, I would like to hear about how you pull this off with Engy…when the heat is on you, how do you get away before you are burned down?

Perma-swiftness with vigor, 4 dodges, and bomb kit is nice if you have it equipped. If not, throwing freezing grenade or blind behind you is pretty good too. It won’t stop a massive zerg with multiple leaps and control skills that haven’t been used, but neither would any of the other classes (except maybe thieves with near perma-stealth).

It’s absolutely hilarious though if the group you’re facing aren’t the best and they’re slowing killing themselves running through the minefield to get to you.

Car.3805:

Creslin.1758:

dekyos.1548:

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

I think we’re more talking about “burst” movement skills that move you a fairly large distance in a short amount of time, like Ride The Lightning, Blink, Charge or Shadow Step. Engy does have one of these at least in rocket boots I know.

Anyway, I would like to hear about how you pull this off with Engy…when the heat is on you, how do you get away before you are burned down?

Perma-swiftness with vigor, 4 dodges, and bomb kit is nice if you have it equipped. If not, throwing freezing grenade or blind behind you is pretty good too. It won’t stop a massive zerg with multiple leaps and control skills that haven’t been used, but neither would any of the other classes (except maybe thieves with near perma-stealth).

It’s absolutely hilarious though if the group you’re facing aren’t the best and they’re slowing killing themselves running through the minefield to get to you.

My D/D Ele can actually get away from a mediumish zerg trying to control me. Mist form + Ether renewal removes all conditions from me, heals, and makes me immune while mist form lasts. Lightning flash while in mist form, then RTL once it ends. That usually means bye bye zerg.

The chill on your grenade is a good tip, I know that my Ele gets away sometimes because of frost armor or water 3.

Car.3805:

Creslin.1758:

dekyos.1548:

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

I think we’re more talking about “burst” movement skills that move you a fairly large distance in a short amount of time, like Ride The Lightning, Blink, Charge or Shadow Step. Engy does have one of these at least in rocket boots I know.

Anyway, I would like to hear about how you pull this off with Engy…when the heat is on you, how do you get away before you are burned down?

Perma-swiftness with vigor, 4 dodges, and bomb kit is nice if you have it equipped. If not, throwing freezing grenade or blind behind you is pretty good too. It won’t stop a massive zerg with multiple leaps and control skills that haven’t been used, but neither would any of the other classes (except maybe thieves with near perma-stealth).

It’s absolutely hilarious though if the group you’re facing aren’t the best and they’re slowing killing themselves running through the minefield to get to you.

Oh one thing I have heard some engies say is that you can drop a smoke field with flame turret, or smoke bomb, and then use rocket boots to simultaneously stealth and gain distance.

Have you ever tried this? Any success with it?

I run as a warrior in such a small group, but its punishing due to the abundance of CC that gets thrown at you in the frontlines. Stability doesn’t last forever (or at all with certain enemies around) and you are a pinball out there!

Our group tends not to go above 5 these days but we normally have a few Guardian/Mesmers and an Ele. If we get up to 10 there’s a ranger or necro in there… just what the guild members like to play really the classes aren’t chosen for anything specific, just what people want to play

just run a group of thieves – easy, they can escape combat better than anyone else and have great damage, two enemies dead within the first few seconds of the fight. Then if they are dumb enough to try and revive the fallen having 4-5 dancing daggers will blow the rest up.

you don’t need guardians or mesmers slowing down the team, only an elementalist can keep up with a fast moving pack of thieves.

But I wouldn’t want to be the elementalist because when the thieves stealth who do you think everyone will target.

I’m roaming with a friend, who play mesmer/ele/thief.

He always complain about me, since I play necro and engineer as main in WvW.

I have no escape mecanism, other then Fresh Worm on Necro and some shield + jump with engineer. But those don’t work often, and with my necro I’m not always using Flesh form, as it doesn’t fit every build.

If we attack a group, and they are starting to zerg us, be sure they will all focus on me. I think my necro got a target on him.

Who would attack a mesmer, Elem or thief when they can easily escape? Just kill the necro. It might take 2-3 more sec to kill, but at least he won’t escape and reset the fight.

Once the fight turn bad, I can rarely escape, except if they are bad. A second HP bar is useless vs a Zerg. I would take a stealth/Block/blink/anything before that.

Guardian,thief, mesmer and Elem are really the perfect squad for roaming.

Elem can just hit and run an entire zerg without dying, if they are specced for it.

I run strike teams only. I’ll take anyone that is looking for some fun, not caring about class. Yes we wipe, but in Dragonhorn [DH], we find it takes 3x our numbers to pull it off.

As far as rangers go, I laugh whenever I hear they don’t have the survivability to be a roamer. I am usually the last to fall in my group. Even our tank Guardian and Warrior can’t understand it. I don’t trait condition removal, nor dump on my pets, I just eat them. Seem many times more conditions on myself the our Guardian has boons, yet I still suvive longer.

Without giving away too much, as I enjoy my build being my build. The key is to study every possible aspect of you toon. Thats traits, skills, gear, weapons, sigels, runes, jewlery, gems…ect… Another key factor is as stated before; Mobility. I don’t mean it in the sense of getting from point A to point B. I mean during a fight.

So yah there are classes that seem better for a roam group, but skill will always out do them.

TAKE THE PLAYER, NOT THE CLASS.

Draygo.9473:

Sword/shield+greatsword. Second fastest build in the game out of any class, faster would be sword/warhorn+greatsword warrior, but you lose a lot of surviveability

No. just no.

I agree that warriors can be REALLY fast, but accounts for when they are NOT in combat, that allows you to swap weapons all the time and making use of the skill right when they get out of CD.
But a D/D ele will catch up/outrun a Sword+warhorn/GS warrior ANY time.

It’s true that when the warr is not in combat he might be able to catch up to the ele. But the moment he gets in combat the ele will outrun him even if you have like 3-4 guys with you unless they’re really smart and can get the ele with immobilize + other conditions to cover the immobilize (the other possibility being the ele sucks or is a glass cannon).

I play both warr and Ele but my ele is just faster.
There were only a handful of times when a warrior was able to outrun me and all of those was because the portal was right there or he ran back to the enemy zerg which was also very close.
Just 1 Warrior will never be able to catch me and kill me. NEVER.

Creslin.1758:

Bunzy.8674:

You don’t need certain professions to make good roaming comps just players who know what they are doing.

Try doing it with ranger…

And I mean that seriously, I would love to see someone who can make a great ranger roamer.

If you can find me a ranger who is a good player i will gladly roam with them

Nuzt.7894:

Engi, Ranger, Necro all need serious work, not sure when or if it will happen. Anet seem blind to the enormous gap between some classes, I’m not saying a well played X class is always going to be bad but what those three classes bring to the table the other 5 can do better. Its a shame really.

Engineers can cause havok when running with small groups. If I find a cluster of enemies, I lead with a supply drop right on top of them, then start spamming grenades as I run around in the middle of them all. MOST players, after being stunned for a couple of seconds, then see red circles at their feet, will give up on any offensive ‘plan’ they may have had and they start going into escape mode. I can usually stay alive long enough to scatter the group, which makes them much easier to defeat by the rest of my group. It works more often than it fails.

Do not underestimate they psychological effect of the red circle. Just about everyone has a Pavlovian response to it, and that is to dodge-roll out. If there are a bunch of them all around, players tend to run out until they are clear. This scatters them, and gives your group the advantage. Also very effective at getting players off of seige. You can create just enough of an opening for the rest of your melee to charge in.

I’ve been able to control chokepoints against small groups just by littering the ground in front of them with red circles from my grenades. They hate running through it. They eventually will charge through, but you’ve bought your team a few seconds of control, and sometimes that’s all it takes to win.

Also, besides the Ele, is there anyone better at keeping the enemy off the walls during a seige than a grenade spamming Engineer?

Also, with 6/6 runes of the centaur and swappable first aid kits, Engineers can also provide group perma-swiftness.

We usually roam around with a Warrior, Thief, Guardian and Ele, which I think this is a great variety of classes. We can usually take on small zergs of around 10-15 – depending on the levels of course. We’ve also turned the tide on many a siege by just storming the attacking zerg from behind. Guardian is great for jumping in and pulling them all together while tanking and Thief is invaluable for revives and finishers. Ele can also use some great aoe heals and dmg while Warrior can dish out some high numbers and hammer cc.

I roll with grenades and a flamethrower in my havoc squads. Between those 2 kits and my rifle I have 2 KBs, 1 jump/launch, several DoTs, several spikes, a snare, and a slow. Elixir S for escaping or running through a zerg to get inside a tower to defend, and a heal kit or turret (I like the turret because I can detonate it for an additional KB).

The only thing I think I lack as an engineer in a havoc is stealth. I have to be sneaky the old fashioned way, by hiding along ridges and making sure to avoid enemy contact until I reach the objective.

dekyos.1548:

I do havoc with engineer all the time, and I’ve been known to charge into zergs that have my group outmanned 3 to 1 before.

Having the right food and slots are important, like any other class. And I dunno what you’re talking about with mobility, engineers get permaswiftness by putting 10 points into toolbelt.

Your missing the point, regardless of skill anything you do a Mesmer, guardian, ele, thief, war can do better. People who run small mans don’t just grab random classes they grab what is most effective. So regardless of how well you yourself do does not mean your class is on par.

Kuldred.2436:

Nuzt.7894:

Engi, Ranger, Necro all need serious work, not sure when or if it will happen. Anet seem blind to the enormous gap between some classes, I’m not saying a well played X class is always going to be bad but what those three classes bring to the table the other 5 can do better. Its a shame really.

Engineers can cause havok when running with small groups. If I find a cluster of enemies, I lead with a supply drop right on top of them, then start spamming grenades as I run around in the middle of them all. MOST players, after being stunned for a couple of seconds, then see red circles at their feet, will give up on any offensive ‘plan’ they may have had and they start going into escape mode. I can usually stay alive long enough to scatter the group, which makes them much easier to defeat by the rest of my group. It works more often than it fails.

Do not underestimate they psychological effect of the red circle. Just about everyone has a Pavlovian response to it, and that is to dodge-roll out. If there are a bunch of them all around, players tend to run out until they are clear. This scatters them, and gives your group the advantage. Also very effective at getting players off of seige. You can create just enough of an opening for the rest of your melee to charge in.

I’ve been able to control chokepoints against small groups just by littering the ground in front of them with red circles from my grenades. They hate running through it. They eventually will charge through, but you’ve bought your team a few seconds of control, and sometimes that’s all it takes to win.

Also, besides the Ele, is there anyone better at keeping the enemy off the walls during a seige than a grenade spamming Engineer?

Also, with 6/6 runes of the centaur and swappable first aid kits, Engineers can also provide group perma-swiftness.

seconding this post, i dont run with small strike teams (since im a glass cannon spec)… but its very easy to make an entire zerg consistently back off from grenade spam. engineers are masters at scaring giant masses of people away from choke points, and well… thats useful when you play it right. especially if some ballsy thief decides to charge and instagib someone who you can then spam grenades at.

I’m running a different Engineer setup myself, but I think this post need some Tankcat to show one of the roles a Engineer have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pfO5s9pi0c
(Thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-TANKCAT-build-Prybar-some-faces/first)

That said, I have to agree with my Grenade tossing brothers in arms, an Engineer with Grenade kit and Supply Cart can create quite the havoc and force a zerg to split out with all the red circles we can produce + all the control utility we bring to the table I haven’t felt like a weak link when roaming around in 4-10 man groups!

Ilesyt.7084:

Draygo.9473:

Sword/shield+greatsword. Second fastest build in the game out of any class, faster would be sword/warhorn+greatsword warrior, but you lose a lot of surviveability

No. just no.

I agree that warriors can be REALLY fast, but accounts for when they are NOT in combat, that allows you to swap weapons all the time and making use of the skill right when they get out of CD.
But a D/D ele will catch up/outrun a Sword+warhorn/GS warrior ANY time.

It’s true that when the warr is not in combat he might be able to catch up to the ele. But the moment he gets in combat the ele will outrun him even if you have like 3-4 guys with you unless they’re really smart and can get the ele with immobilize + other conditions to cover the immobilize (the other possibility being the ele sucks or is a glass cannon).

I play both warr and Ele but my ele is just faster.
There were only a handful of times when a warrior was able to outrun me and all of those was because the portal was right there or he ran back to the enemy zerg which was also very close.
Just 1 Warrior will never be able to catch me and kill me. NEVER.

The build focuses on catching you, killing you is up to my team.

Sword/Sheild+GS + SoR outruns D/D eles, we will be even faster when fast hands gets fixed, but even in its buggy state we can switch weapons fast enough to sword 2->gs3->gs5->bullsrush

Also in and out of combat the speed is the same as far as timing your abilities with weapon slots. Unless you are doing it wrong. I’m always back into sword set before sword #2 is off CD, while in combat.

When we catch you you have to contend with frost burst from sigil (swap for aoe freeze, 3 sec), bolas, hamstring, covered with auto (bleed), sword burst (immobilize), shield stun, and bulls rush stun and generally thats enough to slow an ele down to the point the rest of my team is going to be on top of you piling more cc and more conditions.

The neat thing about warrior sword 2 is that it ignores cripple entirely, its also just as fast in combat as it is out of combat, with a low cooldown, combined with mobile strikes its fine.

Generally if you arnt running GS your running sword. Sword 2 + bullsrush + permaswift is usually enough to get away. If you arnt running GS you are also slower than a D/D ele.

My small man, runs with whatever anyone is feeling like playing atm. We tend to allow maybe 2 lowbies in our 10 man.

But our group makeup on avg consist of….

3 Warriors (2 2hander sword Warriors, 1 support warrior mid)
2 Guardians (hybrid bunker burn/front line support)
2 Thieves(murder spec)
1 Ele(range)
2 Rangers (entangled! range)

Ilesyt.7084:

Draygo.9473:

Sword/shield+greatsword. Second fastest build in the game out of any class, faster would be sword/warhorn+greatsword warrior, but you lose a lot of surviveability

No. just no.

I agree that warriors can be REALLY fast, but accounts for when they are NOT in combat, that allows you to swap weapons all the time and making use of the skill right when they get out of CD.
But a D/D ele will catch up/outrun a Sword+warhorn/GS warrior ANY time.

It’s true that when the warr is not in combat he might be able to catch up to the ele. But the moment he gets in combat the ele will outrun him even if you have like 3-4 guys with you unless they’re really smart and can get the ele with immobilize + other conditions to cover the immobilize (the other possibility being the ele sucks or is a glass cannon).

I play both warr and Ele but my ele is just faster.
There were only a handful of times when a warrior was able to outrun me and all of those was because the portal was right there or he ran back to the enemy zerg which was also very close.
Just 1 Warrior will never be able to catch me and kill me. NEVER.

I think you’re missing the point which is to provide perma-swiftness buff 100% of the time when outside of combat to your 5-man party. Warriors can do it. I understand that Elementalists can as well.

I’m not saying a small man can’t take any classes and succeed, I’m saying it usually (key word) makes life easier with certain classes.

A great player is a great player even if their playing a Ranger chances are your not going to turn them down. With the current state of classes though if you had a choice of what your buddies were going to play the 3 sub par classes probably wouldn’t be the best choice.

Creslin, are you running with a set group or a random pug group you find? How are you communicating? On my server (DB) I’m either alone or with a few other random people with no communication (I swear half the people on my server don’t read the chat). Do you just react to what the other party members are doing or are things coordinated (again using some communication)? Like your d/d post over on the elementalist’s forum, I’d love to see suggestions on getting a small group together and then tips on running with a small group.