Guild Wars 2

The population cap needs to be variable and based upon the server that has the least amount of people in WvW. The system should evaluate all server populations in WvW every minute and block entry to new people, and maybe even dump some people on a server that is significantly more manned than others while competing in WvW. This is the only fair way to do it. If people want to play night crew and do not like the queue to get in they should look for undermanned servers during the night time to transfer to. This is the only fair way to do this. Period.

No. It is not. Server rankings will sort this out eventually.

ecwoodrow.7034:

No. It is not. Server rankings will sort this out eventually.

No it wont.

How do you know, you haven’t even allowed it to run its course.

I said that before and repeatedly it gets shouted down, most people on here dont have the logic or reasoning capability to understand the concept, or they are on servers that dominate because of numbers and dont want to see it changed.

Rodarin.6058:

I said that before and repeatedly it gets shouted down, most people on here dont have the logic or reasoning capability to understand the concept, or they are on servers that dominate because of numbers and dont want to see it changed.

Exactly this. To say that the ranking system is going to fix this, and to wait for it to “kick in”(whenever that will be) is simply a stall tactic to keep from adressing this issue with real solutions that work.

People should be looking at understanding why the current system in place is not working before putting out outlandish and outright terrible ideas on how to fix WvW server pop and play time inbalances.

A floating cap is always the solution to things like this, and would encourage server balance. The current system encourages server imbalance, to get the benefits of 24 hr wvw coverage, and some of the bonuses.

What people don’t realize is that the high pop servers wouldn’t see any difference if they’re always full. But this could let people transfer to lower pop servers without the fear that they’ll NEVER have a chance in WvW.

Am I reading this right ?

Are you saying that server population (PvE and WvW and PvP) should be based off of WvW numbers ?
If so,

How many people do you want to allow in at your night time hours cap ? 15 ? 50 ? 100 ?

So a 200+ member night capper guild should do what exactly ?

Uproot with no compensation because you failed to recruit foriegners into your insert regional guild here ,or make alliances and pacts with strong night capper guilds ?

I’m not seeing any of the night capper guilds complaining,or there allies,so I’m gonna take a stab in the dark and say that maybe the people not happy with the situation didn’t plan ahead real well.

Having said that,it’s not too late to start planning and or taking action to rectify your problem and before the server transfers are disabled for free/infinite use,there may be a slight shift in night capper distribution anyway,due to some NA free loader activity that was inevidable.

Bellok,

Proposing a solution that doesn’t account for many things (such as one of the three servers simply not fielding anyone, thus preventing the other two from even PLAYING), and then insulting the intelligence of anyone who doesn’t agree with you isn’t a very good way to convince anyone you’re right.

This is a bad idea. I am wholeheartedly against this idea.

I don’t like this idea at all.

Here is quick example of why.

At the start of a match up you might get 160 people on each side.

Then after Team A lose a few towers players start leaving, now you have 130×160×160.

So now with an extra 30 people Team B and C take more of Team As stuff causing more of Team A to leave. Now you’re down to 90×160×160

Maybe some of Team B and C get disconnected or crash and can’t get back in so you’re at 103×150×134.

Team B is well organized and on Vent and they’re able to hold off Team A causing more to leave, and taking some of Team C. So now Team A and C have a bunch of people leave, Team B has a few more crashes and you’re down to 50×134×92.

Team A gives up and most of them go to bed and there’s only 24 people around. So now instead of being able to let 160 people from each server in, you can only have 24 from each server. Queue times would go from maybe an hour or two up to maybe 6+ hours.

Then what if a server has an Australian population? Are they not allowed to WvW because the other two servers are asleep and only have a few people?

I think the simple solution to the population imbalance would be to multiply the score by the average number of players on all three sides within the individual Battlegrounds.

That way if any of the individual battlegrounds has all three sides population capped they would generate the equivalent points of a “prime time” match (within that one map), while at the same time the empty or nearly empty one’s would not generate as many.

This wouldn’t solve the other issue of upgraded keeps are harder to assault problem, but I’ve had more fun on grand assaults than on easy so for me it’s a fairly mute point.

Population imbalance is the NUMBER ONE reason why servers are getting destroyed. Regardless of the particulars of it. Either so called ‘night capping’, not enough people playing in WvW (for various reasons), or just not many people on the server anyway.

So the ‘easiest’ way to ‘fix’ it is to put in some sort of population control system. if not then the trends will continue regardless of what people think of it ‘working itself out’.

because some sevrers are EXTREMELY good WHEN THEY HAVE PEOPLE, but when they dont they get ran off the map, as logic would dictate.

Stonebluff Isles is a perfect example, in the 4 to 6 hours we can actually field a decent amount of players we more than hold our own. Then around midnight 1 Am server time the people log off the other servers have players stay ad we are outnumbered and double teamed and it gets embarrassingly bad in terms of score.

So how do you rank that? If Stombluff Isle is potentially or theoretically the best server there is all things being equal putting them up against servers that arent as goo isnt going to work. We saw that in the other match ups.

SBI can outscore both JQQ and HoD for 5 or 6 hours a night with a full team on. But the other 18-19 hours when our numbers are less than half that of either we cant possibly compete. Again how do you rank that?

It is and will continue to be all about numbers the way it is set up now. "Better’ servers with the same numbers will do well. But only as long as they maintain those numbers. Right now it looks like only one server can field full maps 24/7, so how do you rank them?

The answer to all those questions is you can’t because the equation is skewed. Until all things are basically balanced and evened out as best they can there will always be discrepancies and problems in the system.

There are how many matches going on right now? 8 NA and 9 Euro, so 17 matches. How many of them are even close to being competitive? We are losing to HoD by 50K or so points, I believe we are the closest second place server in any match up. If we werent so good for 4 to 6 hours a night we would be losing by 150K. But for 18 hours a day we arent even competitive in WvW, not because we arent good enough, but people have lives and jobs and arent playing a video game 24/7 or havent ‘recruited’ players who can play those times. Thats a joke BTW one of the top populated servers ‘recruiting’ (requesting) even more people to come to their server to make it even more populated.

So it really isnt about the population but the population at certain times of the day. At least as it relates to WvW.

Your idea solves night time capping too, if you didn’t notice. (I don’t care either way)

There should be a minimum on it as well.

At this point though I think they made some pretty big mistakes on which servers are matched up, I’m willing to let them sort through it a bit without this sort of change.

TheAltarBoy, the queue time increasing is on purpose as part of the design.

TheAltarBoy.3176:

I don’t like this idea at all.

Here is quick example of why.

At the start of a match up you might get 160 people on each side.

Then after Team A lose a few towers players start leaving, now you have 130×160×160.

So now with an extra 30 people Team B and C take more of Team As stuff causing more of Team A to leave. Now you’re down to 90×160×160

Maybe some of Team B and C get disconnected or crash and can’t get back in so you’re at 103×150×134.

Team B is well organized and on Vent and they’re able to hold off Team A causing more to leave, and taking some of Team C. So now Team A and C have a bunch of people leave, Team B has a few more crashes and you’re down to 50×134×92.

Team A gives up and most of them go to bed and there’s only 24 people around. So now instead of being able to let 160 people from each server in, you can only have 24 from each server. Queue times would go from maybe an hour or two up to maybe 6+ hours.

Then what if a server has an Australian population? Are they not allowed to WvW because the other two servers are asleep and only have a few people?

Once again this is a failed argument. It takes way too many assumptions into play. Like a team with equal numbers would lose badly enough to get demoralized. That is ust not going to happen, but even if a few did leave and the numbers were skewed slightly it still wouldnt be like it is now, because those players leaving wouldnt allow more players from the other servers to enter like it does now, thos other servers would be capped until the number were equal (or close to it) as possible.

The game as it works now works just like you describe only worse. Is the teams are say 150-80-110 and the cap isnt reached the team with 150 can still move players into WvW and onto a map. I have seen it. I ahve seen HoD blow JQQ right out of a map, so that all that was left was us and them. If I hadnt had seen a few JQQ players out in the middle of no where I would have thought there were ZERO on the map, but there were at least six. We had maybe 30-40 spread around. HoD had probably 150.

They came to the garison with at least 45 and banged on the gate for 10-15 minutes, then when they werent getting anywhere ANOTHER zerg of at least 50 came and attacked the other gate. Then once they got in another fairly large group came in as well. So there were at least 120 HoD at our garrison when JQQ and SBI had maybe 50 people total combined on the map. That also doesnt count the other zerg of HoD that was taking down Dawns Eire and the few at the supply, so 150 is maybe even a low estimate.

I have seen that on several occasions maybe not quite to that extreme but a severely huge zerg effort from out of no where on a particular map, ALWAYS during off peak hours and always when JQQ or SBI didnt have many players in there.

So dont sit there and say some population cap would cause this because it already happens now. if the cap were in place they wouldnt be able to port zergs in on a map like that. While they may hold an advatantage for a short time until the numbers balance out they certainly wouldnt be able to come in like locusts.

This idea is like trowing a gigantic middle finger to every WvW player who can only play at night.

“This is the only fair way to do it.” Yeah. Sure. For you, at least.

Plus players will find a way to exploit that, either “Hey ! We’re dominating, quickly, everyone DC so the enemies can’t have more people capping back !” or “We’re losing, better surrender, quit, or do jumping puzzles, enemies will have fun fighting doors.”

The only thing I see ANet could possibly do without spitting in anyone’s face is switching the Orb/Outmanned Bonuses.

I don’t think this idea would work without kicking people already in the bg. Say server a,b,c have 90 to start. Servers b and c lose 30 people. Server c has noone to replace them putting the cap at 60. Server b has the people to replace the 30 they lost, but can’t field more because it’d take them over the cap.
While server a has 42% of the population (worst case scenario being 100%).

When you start kicking people out of battlegrounds when they’re already annoyed by the long queue times you’re going to lose players and noone wants that.

I just wanted to point out one of the flaws in a bad solution, since you can’t seem to see the problem with it yourself. That said the server match ups won’t work well unless relatively equal servers come in 3’s which doesn’t seem to be the case. Even if they did then you would have people moving up and down the ranks, just to get stomped or dominate.

On the other hand it honestly is the best solution for the problem without ostracizing most of the player base. At least it’s not like daoc where your faction was stuck with overpopulated opposition for years upon years.

Mug.9403:

There should be a minimum on it as well.

TheAltarBoy, the queue time increasing is on purpose as part of the design.

The downside to the queue times increasing is it can hurt other servers. Many of the match ups right now have a dominant server and then two less dominant. Maybe one of those servers has mostly a night time population. If they can’t get in because the other two servers are asleep, they don’t even stand a chance.

Rodarin.6058:

Once again this is a failed argument. It takes way too many assumptions into play. Like a team with equal numbers would lose badly enough to get demoralized. That is ust not going to happen

The game as it works now works just like you describe only worse. Is the teams are say 150-80-110 and the cap isnt reached the team with 150 can still move players into WvW and onto a map. I have seen it. I ahve seen HoD blow JQQ right out of a map, so that all that was left was us and them. If I hadnt had seen a few JQQ players out in the middle of no where I would have thought there were ZERO on the map, but there were at least six. We had maybe 30-40 spread around. HoD had probably 150.
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So dont sit there and say some population cap would cause this because it already happens now. if the cap were in place they wouldnt be able to port zergs in on a map like that. While they may hold an advatantage for a short time until the numbers balance out they certainly wouldnt be able to come in like locusts.

Why are people leaving now? At some point numbers are close to equal, usually when matches first start, then when I side starts losing ground, people leave. Even if they don’t leave because of losing, if one of the servers has a large East Coast presence and the other side has a west cost or australian presence is that server not allowed to WvW because the east coast server is alseep and only have 20 people in EB?

Hell competative servers could just grab a bunch of stuff up front and then tell everyone to log out to intentionally block the australian server from getting in.

A population cap would held your example though. If one server gets up to 150 players and the other two are down at 100 unless the game intentionally kicks the players from the larger team they will still be outnumbered. Sure it might keep more of them from joining, but as long as those 150 people stay in WvW they will still have an advantage.

Even if you have 150-100-100 maybe team B has another 50 people that could fight back against team A and give team C some breathing room, but since Team C only has 100 people, Team B is also capped and Team A has a 50 man advantage.

What ANet should do in an ideal world is turn off free server transfers and give incentives for certain guilds to move to smaller servers to balance stuff out. ANet should manually look at which guilds and alliances are causing imbalances and try to help correct it.

As long as servers have people with different play times, and different numbers of WvW players there will always be an issue. If WvW is meant to be one form of endgame and you’re limiting it to 50 players because one of the other servers is asleep it takes away content from a lot more people.

Sadly I don’t think there’s much ANet can do. Especially not quickly and not with any amount of fairness.

First off this solution is not simple. What you are asking for requires a good deal of coding and adds an additional computational load on the server farm which will impact performance. Not to mention bugs in code like this can cause serious side effects that would make the balance issue insignificant in comparison.

Secondly your proposal is not the only possible fair solution. In order for matchmaking to work properly it must have time to gather metrics. Heck we just got off daily rotations.

How about having some patience to give the matchmaking system the time it needs before prematurely passing judgement. It will certainly need some tweaking but you need data first in order to make informed decisions on what tweaks are needed.

Also implying that the only people against your idea are those high ranked servers is sad and narcissistic.

Your idea is simply flawed which is why is was not used in the first place nor will it be used in the future.

Hey OP are you able to write complicated computer algorithms? Do you have access to the current algorithm they are using?

Unless you can answer yes to both those questions then you cannot state that there current ranking system is wrong or incorrect.

Hell you have no idea how they determine ranking unless you have seen the code or Dev explained it to you, which I have not seen posted anywhere.

TheAltarBoy.3176:

Then what if a server has an Australian population? Are they not allowed to WvW because the other two servers are asleep and only have a few people?

Do you actually dare to call WvWvW what happens when you are practically all alone in the map?

Sureshot.6725:

Secondly your proposal is not the only possible fair solution. In order for matchmaking to work properly it must have time to gather metrics. Heck we just got off daily rotations.

How about having some patience to give the matchmaking system the time it needs before prematurely passing judgement. It will certainly need some tweaking but you need data first in order to make informed decisions on what tweaks are needed.

The problem is for those servers that are getting dominated (most of them) getting dominated for a week straight isn’t fun. Less people queue up, less people will be likely to queue next week, and by not having people queue they’re full skill level might not be seen.

Really they should have gone from 24 hour matches to something like 72 hours. That way for drastic outmatchings they would only last for a week but it’s long enough that you would be able to see which servers work better for more than 24 hours because of off peak playesr.

If your server won’t field enough WvWvW players, actively recruit more people in your server to play WvWvW.

If your server won’t field enough players during certain times of day, actively recruit more people in your server to play during those times.

I will not believe that any server (except perhaps the very last one in the rankings) has so few people on the server itself that it can’t manage to field competitive numbers.

I suspect the more realistic scenario here is that people look at the WvWvW score, see that their server is losing, and don’t bother to play. Or that they are in WvWvW, get killed a lot, and quit.

In this case, you need to find some way to motivate the people on your server to stop giving up so easily. You MIGHT still lose if everyone goes in and tries their hardest. You’ll DEFINITELY lose if people don’t bother to try.

You can’t FORCE people to play WvWvW. But forcing people NOT to play WvWvW is ridiculously unfair.

Sky.9347:

I predict this thread will be locked and/or deleted before page 3 is finished.

4:1 odds, any takers?

Since a comment I made was infracted for responding to Rodarin saying that everyone the disagrees with his idea is either dumb or on a dominate server, I concur with this prediction.

Temper.7265:

Am I reading this right ?

Are you saying that server population (PvE and WvW and PvP) should be based off of WvW numbers ?
If so,

How many people do you want to allow in at your night time hours cap ? 15 ? 50 ? 100 ?

So a 200+ member night capper guild should do what exactly ?

Uproot with no compensation because you failed to recruit foriegners into your insert regional guild here ,or make alliances and pacts with strong night capper guilds ?

I’m not seeing any of the night capper guilds complaining,or there allies,so I’m gonna take a stab in the dark and say that maybe the people not happy with the situation didn’t plan ahead real well.

Having said that,it’s not too late to start planning and or taking action to rectify your problem and before the server transfers are disabled for free/infinite use,there may be a slight shift in night capper distribution anyway,due to some NA free loader activity that was inevidable.

You are so right, I should have planned for the people who left my server due to free transfers, and server rankings being posted. Totally my fault sorry.

This game is 24/7, if other people playing during what they consider day/peak time bothers you this much then maybe you should go play something else.

AXLORD.2045:

This idea is like trowing a gigantic middle finger to every WvW player who can only play at night.

“This is the only fair way to do it.” Yeah. Sure. For you, at least.

Plus players will find a way to exploit that, either “Hey ! We’re dominating, quickly, everyone DC so the enemies can’t have more people capping back !” or “We’re losing, better surrender, quit, or do jumping puzzles, enemies will have fun fighting doors.”

The only thing I see ANet could possibly do without spitting in anyone’s face is switching the Orb/Outmanned Bonuses.

Yes it is throwing* a middle finger at you guys. Instead of relying on server rankings, and free transfers and packing on every international guild on the highest ranking servers, this will force you guys to even things out a bit.

Davion.8754:

This game is 24/7, if other people playing during what they consider day/peak time bothers you this much then maybe you should go play something else.

Me and my 40 friends online gang already did, soon all the others will do… So better fix this soon or kung-fu pandas will win

Odaman.8359:

I don’t think this idea would work without kicking people already in the bg. Say server a,b,c have 90 to start. Servers b and c lose 30 people. Server c has noone to replace them putting the cap at 60. Server b has the people to replace the 30 they lost, but can’t field more because it’d take them over the cap.
While server a has 42% of the population (worst case scenario being 100%).

When you start kicking people out of battlegrounds when they’re already annoyed by the long queue times you’re going to lose players and noone wants that.

I just wanted to point out one of the flaws in a bad solution, since you can’t seem to see the problem with it yourself. That said the server match ups won’t work well unless relatively equal servers come in 3’s which doesn’t seem to be the case. Even if they did then you would have people moving up and down the ranks, just to get stomped or dominate.

On the other hand it honestly is the best solution for the problem without ostracizing most of the player base. At least it’s not like daoc where your faction was stuck with overpopulated opposition for years upon years.

If you don’t like the long queue to get into WvW, roll onto another server.

While I have yet to play WvWvW myself, I have been reading through the forums trying to determine what the REAL issue is and potential solutions for fixing it.

So far, I’ve heard that “night-capping”, server imbalance, and organization are among the problems. Most people have been discussing throttling of the amount of players based on time zones, on-the-fly solutions like randomly kicking players from WvWvW based on whether they outnumber their opponents, or even capping the number of players allowed into WvWvW based on the population of the other two competing servers on the map.

Maybe instead of thinking of fixing WvWvW on a server, or global, basis….think about fixing it on an individual basis.

Reward the PLAYER for representing and defending their world when they are outnumbered.

My suggestion would be as follows:

The reward for being on a team that is fielding a full squad at the population cap limit for the server remains at 100%….just as it is now.

Now, imagine the people defending their server are outnumbered 5:1. Reward those players with 5x (or some sliding scale) the rewards of the players on the other server. I’m not talking about points for their server, or giving them an unfair advantage in WvWvW. The rewards for those players are INDIVIDUAL rewards (coin, karma, badges, etc.).

From what I’ve seen, regarding the mentality of many MMO players, is if they can get more than someone else, they will do it. So, what I see happening with a reward system like this is that players will look to see when the server populations are at their lowest and start playing during those times if they can….because THEY will be rewarded more for it. The rewards may be higher, but they’re going to have to work harder for them.

You’ll start to see organization at the INDIVIDUAL level and that in turn will trickle UP to guilds and servers.

Will there still be times when a server has a lower population and others have higher ones? Probably. I think over time, individual players will start forming groups at off times knowing that THEY will be rewarded more for defending their server.

There will still be zerg servers that only try to “night-cap”, but I feel that the individuals on the other servers will adjust THEIR play times so that THEY can be rewarded more.

As much as we’d all like to believe in a game that has a true global feel to it…..MMO’s are, and will always be, about the individual. The upper tier of players will do anything and everything in their power to get an advantage. By providing an additional reward to defending your server when its population is at its lowest, those players will change when they play, just to take advantage of it. It may also be the best way to get a more stable number of players 24/7.

Eventually, it won’t matter when you play, everyone will be getting the same individual rewards. What will happen at that point is that you will start to see players moving to times that are better suited to their own personal schedule, since it’s no longer more rewarding to play at odd times. This is when you’ll start seeing “night-capping” happening again….thereby giving more individual rewards to the players on less populated servers. I see this going back and forth forever.

Give the player a real reward for being outnumbered and you’ll see players jumping at the chance to take advantage of it.

What are your thoughts? Could this be a real solution?

mcl.9240:

If your server won’t field enough WvWvW players, actively recruit more people in your server to play WvWvW.

If your server won’t field enough players during certain times of day, actively recruit more people in your server to play during those times.

I will not believe that any server (except perhaps the very last one in the rankings) has so few people on the server itself that it can’t manage to field competitive numbers.

I suspect the more realistic scenario here is that people look at the WvWvW score, see that their server is losing, and don’t bother to play. Or that they are in WvWvW, get killed a lot, and quit.

In this case, you need to find some way to motivate the people on your server to stop giving up so easily. You MIGHT still lose if everyone goes in and tries their hardest. You’ll DEFINITELY lose if people don’t bother to try.

You can’t FORCE people to play WvWvW. But forcing people NOT to play WvWvW is ridiculously unfair.

So you think that it is fair for all of the international guilds to flock to the highest ranking servers for free, and then own every other server because they have 24/7 coverage and the others don’t. Then proceed to mock other servers for “not preparing properly” because said guilds moved.

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

If your server won’t field enough WvWvW players, actively recruit more people in your server to play WvWvW.

If your server won’t field enough players during certain times of day, actively recruit more people in your server to play during those times.

I will not believe that any server (except perhaps the very last one in the rankings) has so few people on the server itself that it can’t manage to field competitive numbers.

I suspect the more realistic scenario here is that people look at the WvWvW score, see that their server is losing, and don’t bother to play. Or that they are in WvWvW, get killed a lot, and quit.

In this case, you need to find some way to motivate the people on your server to stop giving up so easily. You MIGHT still lose if everyone goes in and tries their hardest. You’ll DEFINITELY lose if people don’t bother to try.

You can’t FORCE people to play WvWvW. But forcing people NOT to play WvWvW is ridiculously unfair.

So you think that it is fair for all of the international guilds to flock to the highest ranking servers for free, and then own every other server because they have 24/7 coverage and the others don’t. Then proceed to mock other servers for “not preparing properly” because said guilds moved.

Yes. Because you have the same opportunity to change servers they do. Equal opportunity == fair.

You also have the same opportunity they do to motivate more people on your server to play, and the same opportunity they do to recruit people who play during non-prime hours on your server.

Punishing others because you failed to take advantage of the opportunities before you just doesn’t make good sense.

Davion.8754:

This game is 24/7, if other people playing during what they consider day/peak time bothers you this much then maybe you should go play something else.

I think you’ve misunderstood why it is 24/7 and the meaning behind it. It is 24/7 so players don’t get left out of content as well as it being persistent. It is not 24/7 so you have to recruit Oceanic and EU players to defend all night. If that were the case then there wouldn’t be EU servers.

Currently players are being left out because it is 24/7 and players like yourself took that as a “we must have WvW queues 24/7 so lets recruit oceanic players”. In a perfect world oceanics would have their own servers and the problem wouldn’t be nearly as bad. The die has been cast though and the limited WvW oceanic population is consolidated. All we can do now is find a system that balances out the major population advantages at night.

I pretty sure the solution is even more simple than all of you are suggesting.

Day time capping!
Limit the players that play from 2pm-7pm PST. Cause you know, MY time zone matters much more than yours.

It solves the REAL problem, which is server population spiking.

All the whining day players will transfer to a less populated server thus balancing everything out.

Distaste.4801:

Davion.8754:

This game is 24/7, if other people playing during what they consider day/peak time bothers you this much then maybe you should go play something else.

I think you’ve misunderstood why it is 24/7 and the meaning behind it. It is 24/7 so players don’t get left out of content as well as it being persistent. It is not 24/7 so you have to recruit Oceanic and EU players to defend all night. If that were the case then there wouldn’t be EU servers.

Currently players are being left out because it is 24/7 and players like yourself took that as a “we must have WvW queues 24/7 so lets recruit oceanic players”. In a perfect world oceanics would have their own servers and the problem wouldn’t be nearly as bad. The die has been cast though and the limited WvW oceanic population is consolidated. All we can do now is find a system that balances out the major population advantages at night.

You don’t HAVE to recruit Oceanic players. You can choose to resign yourself to the fact that if you’re matched against a server with off-peak teams, you’re going to lose ground during those times.

The bottom line here is that some servers realized that they could gain an advantage by playing during off-peak hours. Rather than do the same thing, other people have chosen to complain about it, calling it “unfair”.

It’s patently not unfair. You have the same ability to get off-peak players they do. You choose not to.

mcl.9240:

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

If your server won’t field enough WvWvW players, actively recruit more people in your server to play WvWvW.

If your server won’t field enough players during certain times of day, actively recruit more people in your server to play during those times.

I will not believe that any server (except perhaps the very last one in the rankings) has so few people on the server itself that it can’t manage to field competitive numbers.

I suspect the more realistic scenario here is that people look at the WvWvW score, see that their server is losing, and don’t bother to play. Or that they are in WvWvW, get killed a lot, and quit.

In this case, you need to find some way to motivate the people on your server to stop giving up so easily. You MIGHT still lose if everyone goes in and tries their hardest. You’ll DEFINITELY lose if people don’t bother to try.

You can’t FORCE people to play WvWvW. But forcing people NOT to play WvWvW is ridiculously unfair.

So you think that it is fair for all of the international guilds to flock to the highest ranking servers for free, and then own every other server because they have 24/7 coverage and the others don’t. Then proceed to mock other servers for “not preparing properly” because said guilds moved.

Yes. Because you have the same opportunity to change servers they do. Equal opportunity == fair.

You also have the same opportunity they do to motivate more people on your server to play, and the same opportunity they do to recruit people who play during non-prime hours on your server.

Punishing others because you failed to take advantage of the opportunities before you just doesn’t make good sense.

It’s not a punishment. With heavy populated servers you have long queues anyways. Having longer queues should be the norm. Taking advantage of free transfers to the highest ranking servers is not good sense. It’s actually bad behavior in my opinion, and it’s not in the best spirit of the game.

Preventing people from playing during certain hours isn’t a punishment? Perhaps only because from your point of view, you would gain an advantage from that situation.

Nobody is doing anything “bad”. The developers made free transfers available, and in their judgment they decided to leave them available even after changing the match times from 24 hours to 1 week.

EVERYONE can use those free transfers, yourself included. You chose not to. This is one of the consequences of your choice. At least until the ranking system settles. 3 weeks of matches (with only one week of 1-week matches) isn’t long enough for it to have settled. You’re complaining about a situation that will be fixed by the matching mechanism over time. The situation will not exist once the matchups have settled to a more stable state.

mcl.9240:

Preventing people from playing during certain hours isn’t a punishment? Perhaps only because from your point of view, you would gain an advantage from that situation.

Nobody is doing anything “bad”. The developers made free transfers available, and in their judgment they decided to leave them available even after changing the match times from 24 hours to 1 week.

EVERYONE can use those free transfers, yourself included. You chose not to. This is one of the consequences of your choice. At least until the ranking system settles. 3 weeks of matches (with only one week of 1-week matches) isn’t long enough for it to have settled. You’re complaining about a situation that will be fixed by the matching mechanism over time. The situation will not exist once the matchups have settled to a more stable state.

Well we’ll see wont we. I doubt the ranking system is going to equalize this mess.

Remember, It’s always 5:00 pm somewhere……

The server matchups will sort themselves out in fairly short order.

It’s going to be ok.

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

Preventing people from playing during certain hours isn’t a punishment? Perhaps only because from your point of view, you would gain an advantage from that situation.

Nobody is doing anything “bad”. The developers made free transfers available, and in their judgment they decided to leave them available even after changing the match times from 24 hours to 1 week.

EVERYONE can use those free transfers, yourself included. You chose not to. This is one of the consequences of your choice. At least until the ranking system settles. 3 weeks of matches (with only one week of 1-week matches) isn’t long enough for it to have settled. You’re complaining about a situation that will be fixed by the matching mechanism over time. The situation will not exist once the matchups have settled to a more stable state.

Well we’ll see wont we. I doubt the ranking system is going to equalize this mess.

Whether you doubt it or not, lobbying for changes before it’s had a chance to be proven one way or another is pointless. Three weeks isn’t nearly enough time. Six months is more reasonable. I’m sure the devs have some timeframe in mind in which they will have considered the rankings to have stabilized.

It’s not preventing people from playing for one thing. If someone wants to play in WvWvW and they have long queue times due to the fact they moved to a higher ranking server they have just as much ability to transfer to server that is less busy. It is generally wrong when you have only a few servers fielding the bulk of international players, it needs to be evened out. You’ll find that there will be much more competition amongst the servers this way, and probably a lot more fun to boot. However I have a feeling you are afraid of competition, that is why you greatly oppose this idea.

Bellok.4180:

It’s not preventing people from playing for one thing. If someone wants to play in WvWvW and they have long queue times due to the fact they moved to a higher ranking server they have just as much ability to transfer to server that is less busy. There is generally wrong when you have only a few servers fielding the bulk of international players, it needs to be evened out. You’ll find that there will be much more competition amongst the servers this way, and probably a lot more fun to boot. However I have a feeling you are afraid of competition, that is why you greatly oppose this idea.

Every 2 weeks three servers will fight one another. Anytime their schedules don’t line up, queue times will go haywire. Server changes won’t matter, because in 2 weeks it will shuffle up again.

This idea is predicated on the false belief that server transfers will always be free and limitless. It just won’t work.

Bellok.4180:

It’s not preventing people from playing for one thing. If someone wants to play in WvWvW and they have long queue times due to the fact they moved to a higher ranking server they have just as much ability to transfer to server that is less busy. It is generally wrong when you have only a few servers fielding the bulk of international players, it needs to be evened out. You’ll find that there will be much more competition amongst the servers this way, and probably a lot more fun to boot. However I have a feeling you are afraid of competition, that is why you greatly oppose this idea.

Yes, I’m clearly afraid of competition. That’s why my server loses so much.

You want to reduce the number of people who are able to play during the times that you are able to play. That’s preventing people from playing. Not everyone lives on your schedule. Forget Europeans and Asians for a minute. Think about American shift workers. You’re going to punish them because they don’t work 9-5, or go to school during the day (and if you’re in school, you get the luxury of choosing your own schedule [assuming you’re in college], and being able to play much earlier than those who work a day job. Not to mention your spring and summer breaks.)

It’s a persistent world. That means things happen when you’re not logged in. The world does not and should not revolve around you.

mcl.9240:

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

Preventing people from playing during certain hours isn’t a punishment? Perhaps only because from your point of view, you would gain an advantage from that situation.

Nobody is doing anything “bad”. The developers made free transfers available, and in their judgment they decided to leave them available even after changing the match times from 24 hours to 1 week.

EVERYONE can use those free transfers, yourself included. You chose not to. This is one of the consequences of your choice. At least until the ranking system settles. 3 weeks of matches (with only one week of 1-week matches) isn’t long enough for it to have settled. You’re complaining about a situation that will be fixed by the matching mechanism over time. The situation will not exist once the matchups have settled to a more stable state.

Well we’ll see wont we. I doubt the ranking system is going to equalize this mess.

Whether you doubt it or not, lobbying for changes before it’s had a chance to be proven one way or another is pointless. Three weeks isn’t nearly enough time. Six months is more reasonable. I’m sure the devs have some timeframe in mind in which they will have considered the rankings to have stabilized.

What you fail to see is that this game will be much more competitive if the international guilds were more spread out amongst the other servers, instead of being horded on the highest ranking servers.

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

Bellok.4180:

mcl.9240:

Preventing people from playing during certain hours isn’t a punishment? Perhaps only because from your point of view, you would gain an advantage from that situation.

Nobody is doing anything “bad”. The developers made free transfers available, and in their judgment they decided to leave them available even after changing the match times from 24 hours to 1 week.

EVERYONE can use those free transfers, yourself included. You chose not to. This is one of the consequences of your choice. At least until the ranking system settles. 3 weeks of matches (with only one week of 1-week matches) isn’t long enough for it to have settled. You’re complaining about a situation that will be fixed by the matching mechanism over time. The situation will not exist once the matchups have settled to a more stable state.

Well we’ll see wont we. I doubt the ranking system is going to equalize this mess.

Whether you doubt it or not, lobbying for changes before it’s had a chance to be proven one way or another is pointless. Three weeks isn’t nearly enough time. Six months is more reasonable. I’m sure the devs have some timeframe in mind in which they will have considered the rankings to have stabilized.

What you fail to see is that this game will be much more competitive if the international guilds were more spread out amongst the other servers, instead of being horded on the highest ranking servers.

What you fail to see is that your statement, which I quote here, is asking someone to force certain people to play on certain servers.

This game is competitive. Your server may not be. There are myriad reasons your server isn’t competitive, but the very last item on the quite long list of reasons should be “game mechanics”, if that item should be on the list at all (and I don’t think it should).

Bellok.4180:

The population cap needs to be variable and based upon the server that has the least amount of people in WvW. The system should evaluate all server populations in WvW every minute and block entry to new people, and maybe even dump some people on a server that is significantly more manned than others while competing in WvW. This is the only fair way to do it. If people want to play night crew and do not like the queue to get in they should look for undermanned servers during the night time to transfer to. This is the only fair way to do this. Period.

oh yes very good solution!

At the opening we will take care to return to our map and quickly take a fortress on the other map. And then we can all disconnect and wait the end of the week.

Ness.3846:

Bellok.4180:

The population cap needs to be variable and based upon the server that has the least amount of people in WvW. The system should evaluate all server populations in WvW every minute and block entry to new people, and maybe even dump some people on a server that is significantly more manned than others while competing in WvW. This is the only fair way to do it. If people want to play night crew and do not like the queue to get in they should look for undermanned servers during the night time to transfer to. This is the only fair way to do this. Period.

oh yes very good solution!

At the opening we will take care to return to our map and quickly take a fortress on the other map. And then we can all disconnect and wait the end of the week.

Precisely. People fail to recognize the various ways this sort of mechanic can be used to gain advantage.

Well now you guys are taking this to the extreme here. If all servers were at 0 how would anyone get in with a system like this? That is of course there was a hard minimum like 10-20. So I’m not saying no one can play if any given server has 0, I’m just saying there does need to be a limit on how much more a server has in WvW compared to the others.

And we’re saying there does NOT need to be a limit on how much more a server has in WvW compared to the others.

This is a bad solution, Bellok. People have tried to explain why but you just dismiss us out of hand. Please re-read some of the posts here.

The “problem” isn’t even well defined yet. We can’t begin to discuss a solution when we still don’t truly know if there IS a problem.

The fact is, we won’t know for a while to come. Right now everything is unstable and chaotic, and collected data is going to be very unreliable.

you cant debate with these people because theyre on servers that dominate AND they get in whenever they want they have the best of both worlds.

But they fail to realize there is a system that stops a lot of people from being able to play, its called a queue. If 100 people have the hours of 4PM and 7 PM only to play and they queue up and never get in what is that? That is not allowing them to play. Safe difference just semantics. A queue based on a solution to the problem would be no different at all. But they dont want it because they already have the best of it.

I am pretty much done with this topic and WvW, and I am not alone, this game wont ever really ‘die’ because it is free to play and come back to at any time, but to think it will maintain any hype or future it could have had is getting laughable at this stage.

I said it before, if it were a subscription game it would be a huge failure and it would already be losing players and once the ‘free’ month period was over it would be just like every other game that failed to deliver on what it said it would let alone what people expected from it.

I mean seriously the WvW is SO bad that people arent even complaining about XXX class being OP or YYY class being under powered. You know a game has issues when you dont see a single thread about classes being imbalanced. Proof by inspection. 25 pages of WvW topics less than a dozen are positive. While there will be negativity it isnt generally so widespread.