Officer of Executed [EXE] from Piken Square.
Thief - OP in late night WvWvW
1 2
What’s your class/build/gear?
Brojack (80 Thief) / Shaojack(80 Warrior) / Shaokuma(80 Guardian) / Shaojax(80 Ranger)
Sanctum of Rall
Sanctum of Rall
He is probably glass cannon like every other kitten
The siliness is ridiculous. Unkillable – cannot kill me either bu rudiculously silly. i am not spending another 15 minutes playing cat and mouse late night. No more late night wvwvw for me, and not jsut for me…
…Huh? He can’t kill you, but you can’t kill him either. This makes Thief OP…
Spartyr – Norn Thief
[GSCH] Gaiscioch Gaming Community
[GSCH] Gaiscioch Gaming Community
I heard next patch all classes will get a new skill called “kill theif” to stop people cring about thieves.
Commander Sir Morningstar of Devona’s Rest, Army of Devona [AoD] Guild Leader
http://www.ArmyofDevona.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mK7xYguWCk
http://www.ArmyofDevona.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mK7xYguWCk
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1 (edit, 1 Silver). Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
(edited by Phoenixfudge.5290)
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?
Sounds legit.
I think your post about thieves is placed in the wrong forum and should be sent to sPvP or something (idk??)
Chasing down the enemy is not an objective of WvW. Holding a supply camp, escorting dolyaks, taking keeps and towers are all objectives of WvW.
Too many times have I seen strategic gameplay fail because half the Zerg wants to go chase down the thief that his attacking them. People with bloodlust (not the Sigil) need to play a different game type.
(ps. Notice from my sig that I do not own a thief)
In reference to ascended items:
Nar: I love that it will take me time and money to
reach the same level I’m at right now… …said no one, ever.
Nar: I love that it will take me time and money to
reach the same level I’m at right now… …said no one, ever.
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?Sounds legit.
Your knowledge of how a thief works saddens me. Especially the part where you think they can chain fear a necro.
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?Sounds legit.
Your knowledge of how a thief works saddens me. Especially the part where you think they can chain fear a necro.
The original quote means stealing 1 silver(as in money), not have stealth recharge at 1 second. The second quote misinterprets this, and because of that the third poster also misinterprets.
Read people!!!
whats nighttime got to do with it? Thief is stupidly OP at all hours. WvW may as well be renamed TvT as its rapidly heading be nothing but thieves on all sides.
Taking 8 hits from a thief and dying and not being able to target them a single time is asinine. All I managed to see in those 8 hits was 1 dust cloud, not rendered a single time and no matter how many times I bashed the tab key I couldn’t get a target. And no this isn’t a once off and it doesn’t happen with any other class.
AR
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?Sounds legit.
Your knowledge of how a thief works saddens me. Especially the part where you think they can chain fear a necro.
I understand how the thief works just fine thank you.
I read it as steal 1 second as in gaining a skill as if you had used steal for one second not as one silver, hence my post.
Thou on a less serious note I’m game for making CnD steal one silver instead of granting you stealth.
It’s quite possible to CnD every 5 seconds non stop so if you pick a group of mobs to farm you can gain an additional 12 silver per minute or an additional 7.2 gold in an hour on top of whatever you gained from farming. Oh yes please! =P
Why don’t you guys reroll as Thieves and learn how ridiculous you’re being. Yeah, thieves are pretty solid at escaping, but now that most classes have 25% movement signets too we’re far from the “most mobile” anymore (since we have fewer options for true Swiftness), and we die pretty fast if we try to actually engage the enemy. Also, since most practical combat is done at the 1200+ range, and Thieves have VERY few attacks that can reach that range, none of them very well, we have a lot of annoyance in most WvW abilities.
Basically, if a Thief doesn’t bother you, don’t bother him. Chances are he can get away from you, and if you’re in water, it’s completely hopeless, but while you can’t really bother him, he can’t really bother you either, so live and let live.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
So much crying over a thief. Stop bandwagonning the hate, i play a thief and i get killed all the time. I hop on my alts and i can kill a thief just fine. Its probably cause youre running solo, werent paying attention or just really kitten and your pride wont let you think its becuase youre inferior or whatever. There are many ways to counter a thief and theyre all.available for all.classes, you just have to know. Have a look at your own class and think. Think really kittening hard and maybe the answer will come to you
Characters:
Xcavars[End]~Carelinne Condoin[End]~Brianna Condoin[End]~Catrice Degaspi[End]~Tiarra Ferr[End]
Xcavars[End]~Carelinne Condoin[End]~Brianna Condoin[End]~Catrice Degaspi[End]~Tiarra Ferr[End]
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?Sounds legit.
Your knowledge of how a thief works saddens me. Especially the part where you think they can chain fear a necro.
I understand how the thief works just fine thank you.
I read it as steal 1 second as in gaining a skill as if you had used steal for one second not as one silver, hence my post.Thou on a less serious note I’m game for making CnD steal one silver instead of granting you stealth.
It’s quite possible to CnD every 5 seconds non stop so if you pick a group of mobs to farm you can gain an additional 12 silver per minute or an additional 7.2 gold in an hour on top of whatever you gained from farming. Oh yes please! =P
My bad. Skimmed through with out reading the quote post in my haste. Just seen so many ridiculous arguments about thieves that some one claiming that to be actually what happens now isn’t far off.
this kind of topic should be deleted on sight.
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
no aegis, no protection , no stability , no CC, lowest base armor / HP
forgot to mention ?
They don’t need any of those. They are perma invisible.
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
They don’t need any of those. They are perma invisible.
but you want invisibilty nerfed , what you give them ? all of those ? fine for me
They should just get rid of all stealth skills and instead replace it with the effect : Steal 1s. Make the thief a real thief, not some assassin/ninja.
CnD > whirling axe > repeat for as long as you have initiative and there is at least one warrior around.
Or Hey guardian, like some perma daze?
I’m sorry necro did I just chain fear you till you died?Sounds legit.
how much initiative does whirling axe cost? I keep casting C&D but my Whirling Axe keeps failing.
What weapon set is my chain fear on? I didn’t know it I could spam that too.
The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks
Is there some secret Anti-Thief syndicate out there?
When i keep seeing the same people in all subforums complain about thief over and over i feel they’ve spend more time here complaining when they could have been adapting or learning, infact i’ve already seen so many people give enough ways of how to deal with them but rather they make their 100th post filled with incorrect info about these magical thieves.
how much initiative does whirling axe cost? I keep casting C&D but my Whirling Axe keeps failing.
What weapon set is my chain fear on? I didn’t know it I could spam that too.
Would be nice if people read all the replies in the thread they are posting in.
I did not read the post I quoted as 1 silver but as 1 second and I assumed they wanted to replace stealth with a steal skill that lasts one second. As in instead of granting stealth CnD steals the same item as our current skill steal does and you have one second to use it.
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
no aegis, no protection , no stability , no CC, lowest base armor / HP
forgot to mention ?
Don’t forget:
- No Retaliation
- No Confusion
- No Burning
- Seven possible weapon combinations (Not counting spear or harpoon gun)
- A total of twenty-one weapon skills (water skills not included) An Elementalist has 20 weapon skills on the staff alone!
- Nine possible melee weapon skills spread across four melee weapon sets.
- One Ranged weapon skill at 1200 yards
- Ten Ranged weapon skills at 900 yards spread across four weapon sets (p/x, sb)
- Only Two utility skills to remove immobilize
Race a D/D Elementalist and a Shortbow Thief in a race and see who has the best mobility.
The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks
(edited by Elthuzar.9478)
Mobility or just flat out speed? The fact that infiltrators arrow is a teleport while burning speed and ride the lightning go in a straight line give thieves a huge edge in mobility.
For straight up speed they are fairly even in my experience.
……………………………………………….
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
Mobility or just flat out speed? The fact that infiltrators arrow is a teleport while burning speed and ride the lightning go in a straight line give thieves a huge edge in mobility.
For straight up speed they are fairly even in my experience.
They are not even. Ele >>> Thief in mobility
The only place thief trumps Ele in mobility would be in sPvP teleporting up ledges….but this is WvW where this doesn’t happen.
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
no aegis, no protection , no stability , no CC, lowest base armor / HP
forgot to mention ?
How is medium armour the lowest base armour?
How are cripples, fear, immobilize & stun a class with no CC?
You can actually get every boon on a thief, if you are fighting a mesmer.
Something else that often gets ignored is the really good (and easily accessible) condition removal.
But anyway in WvW at least thieves have the best surviabilty by far, stealth + mobility is simply far superior to anything else in the WvW enviroment, there is a distinct lack of risk vs reward for a thief.
Which is why there are so many thieves that go glass cannon, they (along with mesmers to a slightly lesser extent) are the only ones that can with such a small increase in risk.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
Mobility or just flat out speed? The fact that infiltrators arrow is a teleport while burning speed and ride the lightning go in a straight line give thieves a huge edge in mobility.
For straight up speed they are fairly even in my experience.
They are not even. Ele >>> Thief in mobility
The only place thief trumps Ele in mobility would be in sPvP teleporting up ledges….but this is WvW where this doesn’t happen.
I have to wonder where the warrior comes in then. Because they can rival D/D eles at mobility.
We need a footrace.
-Desirz Matheon
I actually did a guild footrace once in SE Iron Marches. I’d tell you who was first out of the ele/thief/warrior, but my purple turtle (aka mesmer) was so far behind I was not able to see the finish.
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
no aegis, no protection , no stability , no CC, lowest base armor / HP
forgot to mention ?How is medium armour the lowest base armour?
How are cripples, fear, immobilize & stun a class with no CC?
You can actually get every boon on a thief, if you are fighting a mesmer.
Something else that often gets ignored is the really good condition removal.
But anyway in WvW at least thieves have the best surviabilty by far, stealth + mobility is simply far superior to anything else in the WvW enviroment, there is a distinct lack of risk vs reward for a thief.
you can actualy get invisibility on every class if you play norn race , or you can be stealthed by an ally, if you take the example from boon when you steal an mesmer
Can you compare thief’s lol CC with eng CC ? or with guardian’s ? or other class ?
Imobilize from short bow come from stealth – you have to use utility to stealth with short bow.
Sword build that got imobilize got no burst
D/D build got no CC , P/D build got no CC – those are the builds ppls complain on
They are not even. Ele >>> Thief in mobility
The only place thief trumps Ele in mobility would be in sPvP teleporting up ledges….but this is WvW where this doesn’t happen.
I tele up ledges all the time on my thief in WvW.
highest dps , perma stealth due to culling and best mobility on one class is too much. this needs to be fixed.
no aegis, no protection , no stability , no CC, lowest base armor / HP
forgot to mention ?How is medium armour the lowest base armour?
How are cripples, fear, immobilize & stun a class with no CC?
You can actually get every boon on a thief, if you are fighting a mesmer.
Something else that often gets ignored is the really good condition removal.
But anyway in WvW at least thieves have the best surviabilty by far, stealth + mobility is simply far superior to anything else in the WvW enviroment, there is a distinct lack of risk vs reward for a thief.
you can actualy get invisibility on every class if you play norn race , or you can be stealthed by an ally, if you take the example from boon when you steal an mesmer
Can you compare thief’s lol CC with eng CC ? or with guardian’s ? or other class ?
Imobilize from short bow come from stealth – you have to use utility to stealth with short bow.
Sword build that got imobilize got no burst
D/D build got no CC , P/D build got no CC – those are the builds ppls complain on
I sort of agree on the boons, it is an outlier as such, I was just explaining it was possible on that one.
However in regard to CC, that it is not as good as an engy is irrelevant, thief has CC, several of them, claiming the class has none is just flat out incorrect.
(edited by Sylosi.6503)
i guess you could say thieves have the ultimate CC in that they can put people in what is known as “the downed state” quite readily. it takes a thief less time to down me than it does an engineer to drop his big bomb and knock me down.
in any case. there is an official thread for complaining about thieves here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/page/25#post1063467
if you want to leave your feedback in that thread thats for it maybe that would help further your agenda.
-Desirz Matheon
post engineer nerf, thief is the main class that I run into randomly and say “Oh thank god this 1v1 is against a thief”
Thief has decent mobility, good condition removal, stealth, and spectacular single target burst damage. They also have a lot of liabilities due to health, the fact that stealth isn’t an end-all be-all escape, and the limited number of viable builds.
There are some thieves who can last for what seems like forever using stealth even when significantly outnumbered, but those are far and few between. I’m inclined to think that people wouldn’t have fewer problems against those players regardless— sometimes player skill gets mistaken for class imbalance.
Zoel – GM of [coVn]
Posting when you’re tired and cranky isn’t the best idea. He’ll wake up and not even care about what he posted. At least that’s what I do.
Edit: And after reviewing, he hasn’t responded to anyone who replied.
My Norn Guardian is faster than any Ele/Thief or Warrior anyway.
Unless they too have supersonic stealth kitty form.
The Painted Norn of [WILD]We Intercept Lost Dolyaks
He is probably glass cannon like every other kitten
If i was a glasscannon i would not survive even 3 seconds.
I am tank specced warrior.
I think your post about thieves is placed in the wrong forum and should be sent to sPvP or something (idk??)
Chasing down the enemy is not an objective of WvW. Holding a supply camp, escorting dolyaks, taking keeps and towers are all objectives of WvW.
Too many times have I seen strategic gameplay fail because half the Zerg wants to go chase down the thief that his attacking them. People with bloodlust (not the Sigil) need to play a different game type.
(ps. Notice from my sig that I do not own a thief)
I placed it here because in late night wvwvw there are usually not many ppl around and thiefs can annoy to death literaly all non heavy armor classes while on the way to do it. 1 thief can kill 2-3 ppl group without any trouble with his perma steath.
Why don’t you guys reroll as Thieves and learn how ridiculous you’re being. Yeah, thieves are pretty solid at escaping, but now that most classes have 25% movement signets too we’re far from the “most mobile” anymore (since we have fewer options for true Swiftness), and we die pretty fast if we try to actually engage the enemy. Also, since most practical combat is done at the 1200+ range, and Thieves have VERY few attacks that can reach that range, none of them very well, we have a lot of annoyance in most WvW abilities.
Basically, if a Thief doesn’t bother you, don’t bother him. Chances are he can get away from you, and if you’re in water, it’s completely hopeless, but while you can’t really bother him, he can’t really bother you either, so live and let live.
thief can escape pretty much any class, if you don’t know how – consult 50 to 70% of thiefs out there. thief can stealth and get faaaaaaaaaaaaar closer than 1200 ft – permastelath again. As for water – as soon as you tell me how to pick up a supply camp from the water i will try it. Other than that any group for less than 4 ppl that does not have a tanky warrior or a guardian is screwed against even 1 thief. I will not even comment what happens when you get 2 or 3 thieft tag teaming.
Officer of Executed [EXE] from Piken Square.
However in regard to CC, that it is not as good as an engy is irrelevant, thief has CC, several of them, claiming the class has none is just flat out incorrect.
Thief does have some CC, but they are relatively minor compared to other classes, not really worth caring about. If a Thief tries to make a CC-dependent build then he’s doomed because the abilities are too weak and too far spread to matter.
thief can escape pretty much any class, if you don’t know how – consult 50 to 70% of thiefs out there.
In one on one? Yes, sometimes, maybe. Especially if they are in terrain where they can visually shake the enemy with a few seconds of stealth. If they are outnumbered, then on land they can get chased down fairly easily, and even in one on one scenarios other classes can out footrace them, or can pin them down with CC effects to catch up.
Now, not every class specs themselves in the ways that would let them catch up to a Thief. I suspect that most Thieves are specced in a way that gives them peak, or near peak mobility, because we need it to live, while less players of other classes focus on their mobility options, like speed signets, in favor of upping their direct offense or defense options, and yes, if you don’t spec in mobility, a mobility-Thief will likely outrun you.
Other than that any group for less than 4 ppl that does not have a tanky warrior or a guardian is screwed against even 1 thief. I will not even comment what happens when you get 2 or 3 thieft tag teaming.
If this is true then you surround yourself with some really horrible players, because any two enemies would tend to destroy any Thief intent on standing his ground.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Increase reveal timer & fix rendering. That is all that is needed.
Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa
so what class can catch a thief running at +50% speed while stealthed? … none. Most classes can burst to 33% with a skill for a short period but thief has can opt to have permanent 25% signet.
Only in Anet land does a class trying to sneak away in stealth actually move faster then those not trying to remain hidden. talk about backwards.
AR
so what class can catch a thief running at +50% speed while stealthed? … none. Most classes can burst to 33% with a skill for a short period but thief has can opt to have permanent 25% signet.
Considering that a Thief on the run can only maintain stealth for a couple of seconds, it’s really not a big deal. A single Warrior Rush would cover that distance. Most classes have long range lunges of some sort. Once the Thief’s stealth runs out, we don’t have a steady source of Swiftness, so the max speed we can maintain is 125%, which most classes can manage now that they’ve buffed all speed signets (which I applaud), PLUS longer Swiftness options available, PLUS more long distance lunges, PLUS better options for Cripple, Chill, Immobilize, and other options to slow a runner down from range.
Keep in mind, I’m saying this as someone who does have a Thief as my main, but who plays a character of each class as well, with my other favorites at the moment being Ranger, Guardian, and Necro. If anything needs work, I’m in favor of it, I just don’t see the issue here.
Only in Anet land does a class trying to sneak away in stealth actually move faster then those not trying to remain hidden. talk about backwards.
In most games with Stealth, it’s relatively permanent. If a Thief could go stealthy and then spend the next ten minutes creeping away at half normal speed then that might be ok, but since Stealth rarely lasts more than a few seconds at a time, they need to be able to either close to within striking range, or zip away from attack range before that limited stealth wears off.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
Thief is OP day or night.
Why do you bother ? thiefs are cowards,its easy.They try to kill you,they cant,they pop invis again and are appearing miles away in the distant again hoping you will chase them,but i wont..they are just not worthy of my time and i happily move on without having to worry about that little rat.
Why do you bother ? thiefs are cowards,its easy.They try to kill you,they cant,they pop invis again and are appearing miles away in the distant again hoping you will chase them,but i wont..they are just not worthy of my time and i happily move on without having to worry about that little rat.
So you didnt die….and create a scenario where you can’t die
wtf is the problem then?
Why do you bother ? thiefs are cowards,its easy.They try to kill you,they cant,they pop invis again and are appearing miles away in the distant again hoping you will chase them,but i wont..they are just not worthy of my time and i happily move on without having to worry about that little rat.
So you didnt die….and create a scenario where you can’t die
wtf is the problem then?
L2r please,im merely responding to the op being unable to catch them and it becoming a cat and mouse game,my response is “Dont bother chasing them if they play like this”.That wasn’t so hard to understand now is it ? Im not talking about the Thief being OP issue here,thats another story.
This is due to thieves specing into the nighttime trait line. They get +300 power and a bunch of other bonuses when it’s dark. Not when it’s dark in game but when it’s dark wherever you are irl. No idea how they coded that. Works similar to how some weapons only glow at night.
I still don’t have problems with the culling, I hear them before I see them and got “target nearest enemy” assigned to middle mouse click which selects it before I see it and instantly press my knockback skill then immobilize. He hits me at most once before he flies and that doesn’t kill me.
Rinse and repeat until the thief gives up or I killed him because I managed to stack enough conditions in adition to the few hits I can do when he’s semi-invis due to culling.
The siliness is ridiculous. Unkillable – cannot kill me either bu rudiculously silly. i am not spending another 15 minutes playing cat and mouse late night. No more late night wvwvw for me, and not jsut for me…
Confirmed.
I also agree anyone I cannot kill is OP.
This game will be perfectly balanced when I am unkillable but can kill anyone.
Overlord Of [NAKY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
I had a few run ins last night.. there was one of these thieves in the jp on TC. For like 30 minutes it would come, dance around, be visible for 2-3 seconds, then go invisible for another 3-5 seconds while it ran around and reappeared again. Sure, they can’t really kill you like this very fast, but it’s almost impossible to kill them. By the time you move your pointer or tab to target them, and hit a skill, they are disappearing again.
I was fighting one of thief for like 10 minutes outside of anz, couldn’t kill me, but couldn’t kill it, just kept going invisible after 2-3 second of being visible. Really annoying.
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