Guild Wars 2

Oh well, my old thread got deleted due to being rude… So here we go again, on another account, just to make sure that thieves will still love their class <3

And sorry for failing shadow refuge… Never used it before, how would I know it would leave a debuff, but clearly didn’t matter!

WTF, another thief buff? This class never gets nerfed.

Really nice showing me I don’t even have to bother starting up GW2 today ^^.

10/10 on those trolling skills. I might play if I had a thief, the new #1 WvW class.

Making sure your thread doesn’t get deleted: Oh I love traps, they add such a new dimension to WvW, they are so fun to play with. Best update ever, I totally see where you are going with WvW and I LOVE IT.

MiLkZz.4789:

Really nice showing me I don’t even have to bother starting up GW2 today ^^.

10/10 on those trolling skills. I might play if I had a thief, the new #1 WvW class.

Making sure your thread doesn’t get deleted: Oh I love traps, they add such a new dimension to WvW, they are so fun to play with. Best update ever, I totally see where you are going with WvW and I LOVE IT.

/sarcasm

I triggered some of these traps yesterday by solo-roaming.

Reduktion.5791:

I triggered some of these traps yesterday by solo-roaming.

And that probably sucks more for you than it would to a big zerg.

5 people losing 25 supply is a lot worse than 50 people losing 100 supply.

So this buffs both zergs and thieves.

Thanks Anet.

Note to self – Get thief higher than lvl 6

Caliban.3176:

.

5 people losing 25 supply is a lot worse than 50 people losing 100 supply.

5 people losing 25 supply? Pfft… just use two thieves. 5 people loosing 50 supply.

Even better, 20 people losing 200 supply

Just requires a little bit of coordination, but deff the best troll ingame currently.e

Warrior’s Killshot locks into you even when you’re in stealth, whats even better? Thieves can’t time their evade when you’re stealthed. 14k+ On my mark 1 shot dead next lol

Also, #4 mesmer greatsword phantasms will lock on to you too when you keep stealthing. All I see is thieves picking on a clueless zerg. L2P And stomp their ineffective troll builds lol.

Brangien.7462:

Warrior’s Killshot locks into you even when you’re in stealth, whats even better? Thieves can’t time their evade when you’re stealthed. 14k+ On my mark 1 shot dead next lol

Also, #4 mesmer greatsword phantasms will lock on to you too when you keep stealthing. All I see is thieves picking on a clueless zerg. L2P And stomp their ineffective troll builds lol.

Strange you must be the best player in the world, never got hit by any of that, and I got some 50+ hours spend in stealth.

Note: Thieves can dodge while in stealth lol.
Note: Should they decide not to dodge, they can simply shadowstep 2000 range away while planting the trap lol.

Brangien.7462:

All I see is thieves picking on a clueless zerg.

Indeed! This video was fun though

Pretty soon people will have to learn the various pre-existing ways to counter stealthed thieves, not to mention finding the best ways to make use of the anti-stealth trap itself.

I genuinely like that we have to switch up our play and adapt.

The old meta of veil charging everything was so tedious to counter that anything that moves us away from that is virtually an improvement by definition :p

Nice video I just wonder, did ArenaNet devs predict such trolling thing??? I really doubt

Hyung.6140:

Brangien.7462:

All I see is thieves picking on a clueless zerg.

Indeed! This video was fun though

Pretty soon people will have to learn the various pre-existing ways to counter stealthed thieves, not to mention finding the best ways to make use of the anti-stealth trap itself.

I genuinely like that we have to switch up our play and adapt.

The old meta of veil charging everything was so tedious to counter that anything that moves us away from that is virtually an improvement by definition :p

Veil wasn’t that big of a problem. It just resets targeting, for 3 seconds and gives commanders 3 seconds to change direction (6 or exceptionally 9, if they have really good mesmer coordination) that’s not a lot. It’s too good not to do, but it’s not too strong that it needed nerfs or counters.

And please don’t call Bull a mindless zerg. They are mindless nor zergy. You blame people for getting trolled by a mechanic that was released hours earlier?

Alekty.8706:

Strange you must be the best player in the world, never got hit by any of that, and I got some 50+ hours spend in stealth.

Lul Wat? See above comment about thieves picking on a clueless zerg.
The obvious counters remain.

Warriors – Killshot, Volley + On my mark
Mesmer – Phantasm Berserker spam + Auto Attack Target Assist. Clone’s Auto attacking.
Rangers – F1 Pet Attack, Will keep chasing you after you reveal yourself.

To name a few of the top of my head.

Now I’m sure 1v1 you’ll give me my moneys worth in a duel. In a group situation you can’t hide like on the video shown and every hardcore pvp’er knows this. I’m sure you can get a few traps in and will have fun with it.

Also tnx for the compliment

Hyung.6140:

The old meta of veil charging everything was so tedious to counter that anything that moves us away from that is virtually an improvement by definition :p

Well the Veil hasn’t really changed much, unless you are really really pro at predicting where the veilers are going to be. In a skirmishing situation you’ll never have the time to put it down, even if you do, it is a 4 second channel, so not only are the veil going to run out by itself before the trap is down, but you will also be vulnerable and easily spottable while planting, making it next to nothing to avoid it.

Brangien.7462:

Lul Wat? See above comment about thieves picking on a clueless zerg.
The obvious counters remain.

Warriors – Killshot, Volley + On my mark
Mesmer – Phantasm Berserker spam + Auto Attack Target Assist. Clone’s Auto attacking.
Rangers – F1 Pet Attack, Will keep chasing you after you reveal yourself.
…

The only reason why they saw me, was because I had never used shadow refuge before (aka didn’t realize it broke stealth and left me with a debuff when leaving). I’m only using the thief to scout on, and the shadow refuge has always been too big and easily spottable for me to even consider using it. So… How are you going to counter that which you cannot see? Are you going to be on the lookout for almost unnoticeable stealth fields? :P

In all honesty BuLL is one of the better guilds, granted it was outside of primetime, so they weren’t really playing in full promode, but you can easily see how fast the static fields goes down after I exit stealth in the first engagement – not bad!

But in all honesty, I for one would prefer not to spend my time watching for smokebombs… but then again.. it would actually be available way of countering arrowcarts…. I don’t know what to think about this!

Caliban.3176:

Veil wasn’t that big of a problem. It just resets targeting, for 3 seconds and gives commanders 3 seconds to change direction (6 or exceptionally 9, if they have really good mesmer coordination) that’s not a lot. It’s too good not to do, but it’s not too strong that it needed nerfs or counters.

I wasn’t saying veil was OP – as you say there are tonnes of ways to counter it, but all of them are as tedious as the tactic itself.

Caliban.3176:

And please don’t call Bull a mindless zerg. They are mindless nor zergy. You blame people for getting trolled by a mechanic that was released hours earlier?

No idea who the group are, but any group of that size that can’t deal with a couple of thieves harassing them over such a long period of time seem to lack some awareness and communication.

To my mind they weren’t getting trolled by any new mechanic, but by a long-term existing mechanic of stealthy thieves flitting about and being annoying (as good thieves should!), which they should have learned to deal with by now. If they’d have done that then they’d never have struggled with the traps in the first place!

(as for the ‘zerg’ word, I’m guessing whoever I originally quoted was using the word in the sense of “group that massively outnumbers me” – to a pair of thieves ten people might as well be a zerg, to a small group 20 is a zerg, to 20 forty is a zerg… etc etc. I appreciate there’s a more ‘correct’ definition to do with styles of play but it’s pretty common to hear people use it just to convey that one side outnumbers the other by a relatively wide margin).

Now make removing supply worth some Wxp and we are good.

Hyung.6140:

To my mind they weren’t getting trolled by any new mechanic, but by a long-term existing mechanic of stealthy thieves flitting about and being annoying (as good thieves should!), which they should have learned to deal with by now. If they’d have done that then they’d never have struggled with the traps in the first place!

No not really, if we would see a single thief or even two thieves, stealth through us, we wouldn’t care, it’s not like they can do anything. There is not point in trying to stop them. The only thing they can do is put you in combat and maybe force you to use a defensive skill. Not worth wasting cooldowns on thieves because they might do that. If they were exceptionally good they might be able to kill 1 person and likely die themselves. Again, not worth wasting anything trying to stop them. They got trolled by the traps, those were the things that needed to be stopped and that was something completely new.

Stealth thieves are scouts or camp flippers. Nothing any group of a decent size needs to concern themselves with when they encounter one or two.

Learn to adapt. There was no reason for this guild to all cram up on supply point, they should have spread and from now on will be more aware of possibility of thief trapping. Also this is a mechanic which allows solo/small groups to harm big groups, something the game needs more of.

“Thieves are the new WvW class”.

They’ve always been.. why so late OP?

The Golden Child Class get’s everything, and will continue to get away from everything.

What’s New?

Nothing,
Absolutely just Nothing.

Burnfall.9573:

“Thieves are the new WvW class”.

They’ve always been.. why so late OP?

The Golden Child Class get’s everything, and will continue to get away from everything.

What’s New?

Nothing,
Absolutely just Nothing.

In all honestly, previously it was only possible to troll a couple of people or annoy them by hitting their siege, now we can troll an entire raid!

Soon they will see the light…

Caliban.3176:

Again, not worth wasting anything trying to stop them. They got trolled by the traps, those were the things that needed to be stopped and that was something completely new.

Stealth thieves are scouts or camp flippers. Nothing any group of a decent size needs to concern themselves with when they encounter one or two.

Perhaps you’re right and I wasn’t giving them enough credit! It seems we both agree that they could have done something about them – you saw it as the group deliberately ignoring them (as you point out, with possible good reasons), I saw it more as a failure of awareness.

I guess now we’ll all have to rethink our priorities with regards to solo roamers!

(I see this as a good thing as I like shaking up the meta… you may disagree)

Brace yourself Vizunah, I’m coming

Hyung.6140:

Caliban.3176:

Again, not worth wasting anything trying to stop them. They got trolled by the traps, those were the things that needed to be stopped and that was something completely new.

Stealth thieves are scouts or camp flippers. Nothing any group of a decent size needs to concern themselves with when they encounter one or two.

Perhaps you’re right and I wasn’t giving them enough credit! It seems we both agree that they could have done something about them – you saw it as the group deliberately ignoring them (as you point out, with possible good reasons), I saw it more as a failure of awareness.

I guess now we’ll all have to rethink our priorities with regards to solo roamers!

(I see this as a good thing as I like shaking up the meta… you may disagree)

I actually liked the “gentleman’s agreement” that a lot of guilds have concerning solo players. Unless the player is obviously scouting something you don’t want him to see, you just leave him alone. I think many people who have had to run across the map for vista’s and skillpoints liked that as well. I tend to /wave when I’m doing stuff like that (not that it happens very often).

Shaking up the meta is a good thing indeed, it just depends on the direction it is getting pushed in and that doesn’t look very promising. All I see is more zerging. Now you will need even more people to make sure your treb gets build, the treb you are using because there are too many arrowcarts in a tower.

Funny video.

But you won’t be able to pull this off forever; or at least not to this extent. You’ll run out of badges and/or karma at some point.

Dat video is crazy great! Love it, really!

Dear ANET, I repeat it again, for the God’s will, hire a new game designers!
Tyvm.

Caliban.3176:

Shaking up the meta is a good thing indeed, it just depends on the direction it is getting pushed in and that doesn’t look very promising.

Heh, I’m afraid I don’t share your disillusionment, though I understand why you feel so. Personally I really like both the arrow cart changes and am excited by the possibilities of traps. Be interesting to see where everything ends up in six months or so!

Good luck out there.

Saturn.6591:

Funny video.

But you won’t be able to pull this off forever; or at least not to this extent. You’ll run out of badges and/or karma at some point.

Average karma in guild per character: 2-3million.
Average amount of badges: 5000

Nothing to spend them on.

I think we could do this a while

Hyung.6140:

Caliban.3176:

Shaking up the meta is a good thing indeed, it just depends on the direction it is getting pushed in and that doesn’t look very promising.

Heh, I’m afraid I don’t share your disillusionment, though I understand why you feel so. Personally I really like both the arrow cart changes and am excited by the possibilities of traps. Be interesting to see where everything ends up in six months or so!

Good luck out there.

I think I wrote a couple of posts (150+) on how I feel about the arrowcarts. So no need to get back into that one.

I believe that there may be more players like you who enjoy these little gimmicks and the things you can do with them but I don’t. In contrast with that huge mistake they made a couple of weeks ago I do have to say that I’m not really opposed to these traps. Sure I think they don’t really belong here and that it is just a useless gimmick but it won’t harm a lot of things if you ask me. It’ll decrease the amount of roaming groups a little bit but not very much.

What does vex me however is that they spend resources on bringing this little thing in. Nobody really wanted it(not the same as welcoming it, like you have). Nobody was begging for it to happen.
What were people asking for?
Incentive to not run in zergs (AC patch did the opposite)
Ascended gear (ASAP they say, sure brah)
Bug fixes (zoomhacks, fly hacks, stuck in siegebuilding, …)
fixing skilllag (should be a priority)
and more actual fights (not everyone agrees on that last one but I have seen many do)
gear for badges

What do we get:
Bad Arrowcarts (BAD, very very BAD)
Ranks (LOL) (I know some people wanted progression, but nobody expected this or can really be satisfied by it)
second hand skins
and now gimmicky traps
Gear (good thing if it required only badges and not badges+gold)

I’ll take the traps if they give me something from that else list as well.

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

Falassion.8031:

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

Yes, because the thief have no chance of spotting a guy standing with a box channeling for 4 seconds, and with the 50 range, it shouldn’t be hard to deduct where the trap is

So as thief, just move around or plant supply trap at exit

Falassion.8031:

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

eithinan.9841:

Falassion.8031:

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

they could have dropped one of these traps any time after they realized what was happening.

In that video? How could they drop a trap without supply? :P

Because it’s the first day for trap.
How many times do you see a thief stealth and come in the middle of the zerg and come out alive !

If players in the video had suspected what the thief tryed to do they would unleash immobilezed/AOE in the middle of the zerg and thief die.

They are watching birds in the sky guys XD come on.

And traps at exit of supply camp can be planted by all class. So let only one player move on the top of zerg or you can wait one hour lol

Falassion.8031:

How many times do you see a thief stealth and come in the middle of the zerg and come out alive !

Not many times, but I guess that is why they normally stealth where people can’t see them.

You aren’t really doing anything special here. Any player with a little knowledge of pathing in WvW, can do the same thing. You see a zerg running for a supply camp, there’s a very big chance that they will double back. You see a zerg taking a tower, there a very big chance that they will go to the nearest supply camp, to get more supply. Zergs follow roads 9 out of 10 times. The fact that you decided to go into the middle of a zerg to place a trap, is actually a bad move, as you’re putting yourself in unnecessary risk.

Kasama.8941:

You aren’t really doing anything special here. Any player with a little knowledge of pathing in WvW, can do the same thing. You see a zerg running for a supply camp, there’s a very big chance that they will double back. You see a zerg taking a tower, there a very big chance that they will go to the nearest supply camp, to get more supply. Zergs follow roads 9 out of 10 times. The fact that you decided to go into the middle of a zerg to place a trap, is actually a bad move, as you’re putting yourself in unnecessary risk.

I guess I should take payment for teaching people to play now, but here goes…

The problem is, that if you do this, people can easily send one guy to run ahead, completely nullifying your tactic. So pathing… It works I have no doubts, but the funny thing about this is, you can’t do ANYTHING against it. If you have read up on your mechanics 101, you would know that you can use all instant casts while casting something else. Aka I can use my shadowstep 2000 range away, run in, in stealth, start planting, and the moment I start planting I teleport 2000 range away and the plant will still be right ontop of them (As showed by my lovely partner in the video on partner-cam 2 if I might add).

So they don’t see me coming, and unless they can kill me in 0.1 second it takes to use shadowstep, they are going to lose all their supplies.

The only way to counter shadowstepping thieves would indeed be to put up so many anti stealth traps that it would make the supply traps meaningless. And ofcourse that is if the thief runs into the traps, and doesn’t just infitartor arrows or shadowstep over them.

Thief OP yo.

So basicly you’re saying thieves can troll people even better now. Not sure thats new, and I dont think many people will be spending their tokens on these traps in a few days once the novalty has worn off.

Ahahah, so funny! Poor fools can’t do anything when thief steals their supply. ;D
I mean, before you could only troll if the idiots would allow it, but now thief decides when to play. ;D

Thanks for the video again, so lame the old thread was deleted.

As I said then, you demonstrate what it means to use all your tools to the best of their abilities. This is obviously intended behavior by Anet – why would you have a class that can be invisible forever if not to do things like these?

I hope other people learn from this video and put these new traps to good use. Very smart and well played by those guys.

Traps were a very well thought about addition to the game…

eithinan.9841:

Falassion.8031:

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

they could have dropped one of these traps any time after they realized what was happening.

Firstly, they need 10 supply on a single character to make a trap.

Secondly its very obvious if a non-stealther placed a trap, easy to avoid aswell.

Thirdly, a Thief just Shadowsteps in and starts building the trap and then hits Shadowstep again which teleports him back to the starting point while he still finishes building the trap IN THE SPOT HE PLACED IT. So you can spam aoe and your own traps all you want, but he is placing it remotely now.

Thieves got a massive buff this patch, and nothing short of.

Imagine the kind of trolling you could do with 5 thieves instead of 2. I bet you could even troll T1 zergs.

But of course, the forum is filled with skilled players that laugh at the idea of themselves getting trolled by such cheap(?) tactics. Like they’d never be a victim.

Terrahero.9358:

eithinan.9841:

Falassion.8031:

If you see a Thief near you (like in this case) use a Anti-Stealth trap. Problem solved :P

they could have dropped one of these traps any time after they realized what was happening.

Firstly, they need 10 supply on a single character to make a trap.

Secondly its very obvious if a non-stealther placed a trap, easy to avoid aswell.

Thirdly, a Thief just Shadowsteps in and starts building the trap and then hits Shadowstep again which teleports him back to the starting point while he still finishes building the trap IN THE SPOT HE PLACED IT. So you can spam aoe and your own traps all you want, but he is placing it remotely now.

Thieves got a massive buff this patch, and nothing short of.

This guy gets it. Actually not in that video (though I do have the footage if proof be needed), I ported into about 80 BB players taking an upgraded SM and planted my trap near the lords room in the middle of them then got out alive, sure I took 10k damage in 1 second, but 1 second was all I needed.

Furthermore, there are even more broken mechanics I know about, but I rather not start a trend for stupid ways to use these traps, those who figure it out can use it, but shadowstep is not the most broken thing to use here

Enjoy the patch (lol)

Aneu.1748:

Traps were a very well thought about addition to the game…

Gone make a meme thread about traps too on your forum? Seriously asking, because last one was sooo good :p.

I set a deadline for myself to when I wanted to see an AC fix, I went for 13th of this month. They announced the patch to be the 14th so yea, sure I can wait 1 extra day. They added traps and I could still defend bay while watching a movie and clicking ‘1’ on the arrowcard. Hills is even worse and I don’t think I have flipt garrison since the AC buff. Game is ruined for my playstyle, another game budged for the ‘unskilled’ ones. The casual WvW players got what they want. I will keep the game in the hope they add GvG arenas or something with openfield combat. Till then I will barely play. Have fun all, Anet ain’t thinking the same as me about what WvW should be and I am going to spare myself the dissapointment that will follow in the upcoming patches.

Looks nicely anti-zerg to me. Not really a problem besides a way to troll zergs. Otherwise, the enemy group can simply go get more supply or be smarter and more aware of their surroundings. People need to complain less and calm down. This is a solo class, mostly useless in zerg fights besides letting their silly shortbow kill allies against enemy zerg reflections.
I’m in the process of leveling all classes, and so far I still don’t see thieves as OP.

How is awareness going to stop this strategy? Genuine question. Terrahero’s and the OP’s points seem pretty very convincing to me.

Watch for the shadow refuge area field, the pistol #5 smoke field, etc. If your zerg has anywhere near decent scouts then you will see them, and hopefully have someone to push/pull the thief out of stealth and kill them. In this video the guy didn’t even wait for the field to give him the extra stealth and building the trap in plain sight gave them more than enough time to attack/interrupt.
If the thief isn’t taken out of it’s stealth, then keep your zerg mobile. Do supply checks in less risky places for this tactic.
Some supply camps do have many places for the thief to hide behind for a safe shadow refuge, so that’s a case where awareness is more tricky.

But he can do those things away from zergs or from prowling eyes, and keep up his stealth while he makes his way over there. Once in place, he can use Shadowstep to place the trap away from the group.

Hygeria.9538:

Watch for the shadow refuge area field, the pistol #5 smoke field, etc. If your zerg has anywhere near decent scouts then you will see them, and hopefully have someone to push/pull the thief out of stealth and kill them. In this video the guy didn’t even wait for the field to give him the extra stealth and building the trap in plain sight gave them more than enough time to attack/interrupt.
If the thief isn’t taken out of it’s stealth, then keep your zerg mobile. Do supply checks in less risky places for this tactic.
Some supply camps do have many places for the thief to hide behind for a safe shadow refuge, so that’s a case where awareness is more tricky.

This doesnt work, as stated before. The stealth lets you know “hey, a Thief is around” but that alone isnt enough. What are you actually doing to do to stop him?

All he has to do, and this works great, is Shadowstep into the zerg and start building the Trap. So, placing it. The moment he starts he hits Shadowstep again, which then Teleports the thief back to the spot he Shadowstepped from in the first place.

Effectively the Thief is now somewhere in a 2400 range, finishing the Trap while still in Stealth. How do you knock him out of Stealth? How do you bait him into a Trap? How does aoe spam work? You have no idea where he is, or if he is even already making the trap.

Just a Thief going into Stealth near your zerg is suddenly a big threat. Is he running away? Or is he maybe setting up to sap 100 of your zerg supply? When is he making his move?
This stuff makes Thieves menacing just for being around, because they can actually really hurt a zerg now. All he had to do was show himself and Stealth away, and the zerg goes in ultra-paranoid mode. Because that lone Thief might make your army lose a full supplycamp worth of supply. And there is no actual reliable way to really stop him.