Guild Wars 2

Lonny.9873:

tagnut.8621:

Thieves are far from fine.

Its facepalmingly bemusing why ANET haven’t dealt with them yet – a 5 year old could tell you that:

- near permanent untargetable invisibility plus
- insane burst damage (5-6k steal, 5-6k cnd, 6-14k backstab) all in < 2s from invisibility plus
- as many get out jail free cards as you like plus. The mobility also makes up for medium armor and lowest healthpool in the game.
- crazy kitten mobility (bouncy bouncy heartseeker spam for 6k crits)

Its too much. Far too much.

1. Near Permastealth = No Damage
2. Only if everything crits and you are too dumb to use a stunbreaker, dodge the steal or you didnt see it coming
3. So… He’s running away = u won
4. The dps on heartseeker is way lower than the dagger #1 chain. It’s only useful for gapclosing since the Animation can be dodged quite easily

1. Infite Stealth build users go unstealth for 2 secs to deal damage, and then go in stealth again. But then you are: But you can damage them in stealth, blablabla…. True. But you can’t select them, or even see them (duh) which makes it IMPOSSIBLE for aiming accurate. Only the most rubbish thieves can’t avoid the AoE attacks.

2. Ok i’ll dodge it. Oh wait he went in stealth again to use other OP skills such a backstab and godknows what other Thief Skills are OP.

3. What makes the thief have the right to escape from battles? Are the persons who run thieves better (not in-game, just as a person) than those who are not and they should be the only one who can run away when they’re losing, let the combat reset for another attempt and then try again, again and again till the person is so tired of thieves that he would just let himself get killed? NO.

4.Ok? Might be lower, but it’s not like it’s so underpowered, it’s still a skill that can deal plenty of damage.

No class, even though the Thief in the video is skilled, should be able to solo a tower. I also often see groups of 2~3 thieves killing our Dolyaks. They can’t die because of the AoE stealth (=100% infinite stealth). Even if they encounter groups of 10 or more, with only very few skill, they remain hidden and won’t die…
If that all is not enough, Thieves have Medium armor = Less damage than Scholar Classes (= Elementalist, Mesmer & Necromancer)

Solori.6025:

Has you ever thought that some people that have a thief made one so they wouldnt be part of the masses of people that cry everytime they get BS combo’d and die?

Some people dont like to waste time and cry about another classes mechanics.
Instead some of us make the class that gives us trouble, learn it, and then get back on our main and counter it.

At least I want to believe people that want to be good at the game do….

Im all for a reasonable nerf to the theif ( key word reasonable) as well as fixes to mechanics like cnd on walls and objects, as is probably everyone.

Im not for neutering as class because people dont want to learn to play.

I made a thief for this reason and learned it is a very easy class to play that is very hard to counter. Personally I think they do need to be toned down, but I agree it needs to be reasonable.

Some reasonable changes I believe include:
- A slight decrease in burst so they can’t so easily kill people in a few seconds, so people have time to react. Personally I think the damage of steal and cloak and dagger need to be decreased and backstab stay the same, the other two are utility attacks giving shadow step and stealth, the damage should only be a nice bonus not a big part of the burst.
- Move Mug higher in the trait line.
- No more stealth on walls, clear exploit
- Stealth breaks on attack, even if your attack misses/is blocked/is dodged/target invulnerable. Currently the thief is the only one who is not punished for these things and it means they can keep spamming attacks if they missed, which makes them harder to counter.
- Possibly but I think this one is debatable: consider making it so you get revealed debuff when stealth ends, so it is a bit harder to chain stealths.

I am a thief and have been one from launch and do not play the stealth game like most do. I enjoy my short bow…but that is not the issue.

Here is the fix ANET…increase the reveal debuff to 6 seconds.

Thank you.

Solori.6025:

Go to Spvp or Tpvp.
You will basically see what thieves are capable of without the culling issue, because in spvp its almost non-existent ( at least for me)

I’m interested in hearing your opinion on this then. How do you feel thieves fair in sPvP without culling being an issue?

Harbinger.9645:

Solori.6025:

Go to Spvp or Tpvp.
You will basically see what thieves are capable of without the culling issue, because in spvp its almost non-existent ( at least for me)

I’m interested in hearing your opinion on this then. How do you feel thieves fair in sPvP without culling being an issue?

They dont give me problems in spvp in small scale fights like 6v6 and under
Honestly they shouldnt be a problem for anyone in Spvp, unless your a newb running zerk builds cause you like to see l33t numbers.

With the culling, thieves for me in wvw have about 1.5 sec of extra stealth time.
In spvp i see them instantaneously.

This is probably due to everyone having generic colors and armor, and the maps are small without the extra mobs that need to be rendered.

In spvp thieves dont have random mobs to keep stealthing with CnD also, so their only form of escaping effectively is to use utilities like shadow step.
I would say shadow refuge but i have knocked too many thieves out of that circle to call it reliable.

Crab Shell.5489:

How about a mechanic like the spy in tf2? They appear briefly but translucent when they take dmg…

Spy in TF2 cloaking is best but spy suit is easy to burning.(blood split,food print,coagh,touch by enemy, etc…)
And whole team will see some happy flaming hollow scream all day.
I like cook spy every match even am a doctor!!

increase the reveal debuff?
No !
just get dmg and break stealth they will L2P like say to another or other class as they alway say.

We have a lot of build to play but on WWW but…dam I must pick anti-thife build again?!
In www have a lot of class but thife with tower thife with yak thife with sentry thife with camp thife with water thife with door thife with floor thife with wall thife with rabbit arg…good not thife with carrot LoL~
And thife hahaha I can use build anything to go out with stealth no1 target us or catch us!!

In PvP mode no place to run no place to hide scale map is smaller than WWW
and must focus on ring of point it force to go out you team and enemy run in map like kissing each other because map is small.

Solori.6025:

They dont give me problems in spvp in small scale fights like 6v6 and under
Honestly they shouldnt be a problem for anyone in Spvp, unless your a newb running zerk builds cause you like to see l33t numbers.

With the culling, thieves for me in wvw have about 1.5 sec of extra stealth time.
In spvp i see them instantaneously.

This is probably due to everyone having generic colors and armor, and the maps are small without the extra mobs that need to be rendered.

In spvp thieves dont have random mobs to keep stealthing with CnD also, so their only form of escaping effectively is to use utilities like shadow step.
I would say shadow refuge but i have knocked too many thieves out of that circle to call it reliable.

Thank you. Exactly what I was expecting. Obviously you know how to play against a thief and for that I say thank you. If more people were to learn the mechanics there would be fewer arguments about thieves being OP. Hopefully they can fix the issues people have with thieves in WvW without following the direction of a lot of the misinformation floating around. I fear they will make this class unplayable in they make a mistake on any inbound fixes.

Threads like these show just how lazy some are. The easiest thing to say is this class or that class is so OP nerf now. Instead got to sPvP and roll that class see it’s mechanics then you will be better suited to fight them. I must agree that if they could get culling solved in WvW you will hopefully see less people complain….but again that’s a hope, because kids will still get all but hurt because they were rolling around in zerk gear and got spiked before they could spike.

I have a level 80 of each class and play them all in wvw, the only one I will take on a group of 5 or more with is my thief. I think the revealed should be increased by a sec.

Kjendar.6459:

I have a level 80 of each class and play them all in wvw, the only one I will take on a group of 5 or more with is my thief. I think the revealed should be increased by a sec.

Probably won’t need to be once they fix culling.

In a game with cloaking Wraiths you need Detectors. Right now GW2 is a game with cloaking Wraiths but no Detectors.

Harbinger.9645:

Solori.6025:

They dont give me problems in spvp in small scale fights like 6v6 and under
Honestly they shouldnt be a problem for anyone in Spvp, unless your a newb running zerk builds cause you like to see l33t numbers.

With the culling, thieves for me in wvw have about 1.5 sec of extra stealth time.
In spvp i see them instantaneously.

This is probably due to everyone having generic colors and armor, and the maps are small without the extra mobs that need to be rendered.

In spvp thieves dont have random mobs to keep stealthing with CnD also, so their only form of escaping effectively is to use utilities like shadow step.
I would say shadow refuge but i have knocked too many thieves out of that circle to call it reliable.

Thank you. Exactly what I was expecting. Obviously you know how to play against a thief and for that I say thank you. If more people were to learn the mechanics there would be fewer arguments about thieves being OP. Hopefully they can fix the issues people have with thieves in WvW without following the direction of a lot of the misinformation floating around. I fear they will make this class unplayable in they make a mistake on any inbound fixes.

Thieves have their abilities do lower damage in spvp and to re-state they don’t have random critters and mobs which gives them a big advantage in wvw. Just thought I would point that out.

Also thieves really do need to be punished for a missed or blocked attack in stealth, that is just ridiculous that they get to try again if the person moved.

purpleskies.3274:

Thieves have their abilities do lower damage in spvp and to re-state they don’t have random critters and mobs which gives them a big advantage in wvw. Just thought I would point that out.

They do lower damage on CnD but not backstab right? I agree with you on critters, I never use that in WvW and I would gladly have them remove critters because people can rally off them too which is so lame. I roll that issue into problems with WvW in general. Thieves also shouldn’t be able to stealth off objects.

purpleskies.3274:

Also thieves really do need to be punished for a missed or blocked attack in stealth, that is just ridiculous that they get to try again if the person moved.

I have mixed feelings about this one. Missing an attack I disagree with from a logical standpoint since you haven’t actually hit anything you shouldn’t be revealed. Blocking on the other hand I totally agree with. If some one blocks your attack then they should know where you are.

Harbinger.9645:

purpleskies.3274:

Thieves have their abilities do lower damage in spvp and to re-state they don’t have random critters and mobs which gives them a big advantage in wvw. Just thought I would point that out.

They do lower damage on CnD but not backstab right? I agree with you on critters, I never use that in WvW and I would gladly have them remove critters because people can rally off them too which is so lame. I roll that issue into problems with WvW in general. Thieves also shouldn’t be able to stealth off objects.

Well, also, the most critical damage you can get in sPvP is around 65%, plus some conditional damage bonuses (10% when attacking from behind, etc). But with full berserker’s or valkyrie’s exotics in WvW you can get over 100% critical damage. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t consider, you can get better stats in PvE and thus WvWvW than in sPvP.

lettucemode.3789:

Well, also, the most critical damage you can get in sPvP is around 65%, plus some conditional damage bonuses (10% when attacking from behind, etc). But with full berserker’s exotics in WvW you can get over 100% critical damage. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t consider, you can get better stats in PvE and thus WvWvW than in sPvP.

I didn’t know that either. Interesting, but at least this is something that affects everyone equally.

Riselight.3695:

godknows what other Thief Skills are OP

You know, admitting that you don’t know how a Thief works doesn’t really help your argument.

Harbinger.9645:

purpleskies.3274:

Also thieves really do need to be punished for a missed or blocked attack in stealth, that is just ridiculous that they get to try again if the person moved.

I have mixed feelings about this one. Missing an attack I disagree with from a logical standpoint since you haven’t actually hit anything you shouldn’t be revealed. Blocking on the other hand I totally agree with. If some one blocks your attack then they should know where you are.

From a logical standpoint if you are trying to hide around me in an open field you aren’t invisible :P But you could also word it as if they are flailing or stabbing you could hear/see them because they are no longer focused on being hidden.

And from a game point of view it is unfair that thieves aren’t punished when every other class gets their abilities on cool down in a similar situation, but a thief can just keep attacking until they make contact. It is an unfair advantage, making thieves even more forgiving and harder to counter.

When you have a class thats overpowered as hell and so easy to play a 5 year old could do it then you have a problem.

Thieves need significant downward adjustment. I know it. You know it. 95% of the playerbase knows it. Talk to thieves ingame (not the half dozen last ditch godmode forum defenders here) and they’ll openly laugh about how overpowered the thief is.

So whats the problem ANET? Most thief players have been expecting to be nerfed down to normal for months and think its hilarious you haven’t done it yet?

tagnut.8621:

So whats the problem ANET? Most thief players have been expecting to be nerfed down to normal for months and think its hilarious you haven’t done it yet?

Most of the thief players expected partially because Anet said months ago they were going to lower the damage on backstab, they just haven’t done that yet.

those who think thieves are overpowered should roll one in sPVP and get back to us on it. (Lv 80 guard and ranger, lv 2 thief)

The problem is culling, not thief mechanics. Altho bunker thieves are very difficult to kill.

You know those quiet times when your group takes a southern tower back on your own borderlands. Well last night on Ybbl we took the sw tower back from I think CD. As I have missed it in the past I laid down AoE at the supply depot to flush out any mesmer hiding. We had the whole map so no one was in any rush anywhere else. I saw a flash of red for less than a quarter of a second. It was a thief. There were 8 or so of us in the tower could we get him never in a month of Sunday’s. Sure you could see him pop very briefly but was invisible all but permently. No amount of AoE could get him. So we decided to stay in the tower as the only way to defend it. He finally left. This is not a culling issue this is just wrong that 8 vs 1 and the 8 lost. The abilty to stay invis without damage from aoe is wrong. He could have taken back the tower on his own without interference or having to take wall door down is also just wrong. Anet needs to balance this better.

1) It’s culling dude. Again, roll a thief in sPVP where there is no culling. I promise you it’s nowhere near as easy for them to kill you (also there’s the issue of 50% less maximum crit damage in sPVP but still)

2) You didn’t lose, you just didn’t win. The only way you would lose is if you died, but you didn’t. Again, roll a thief and learn how the mechanics of the thief work.

I agree, thiefs rule in WvW.. i have never seen a more powerfull class that deals that much damage in just 6 strikes in 3 seconds.

3400 toughness and still down in 6 hits, and the thief only presses 1 skill.

I thought this game was skill based.

Culling due to 8 people? Yeah, I don’t buy that.

Teamkiller, did you even read Erinshaw’s post? There were 8 people there all using AoE and they couldn’t detect him. How does that have anything to do with your 2 points? Its not hard to avoid blindly placed AoE circles – blindly placed because those 8 people had no clue where the stealthed thief was. That has nothing to do with thief mechanics….

We put down arrow carts and sprayed the place for fun did not make any difference. Why do you assume I dont have a thief. I have enough thieves in my guild who report accurately that they just do not get touched. I am not out to destroy the class but there needs to be a way to counter them and currently there isn’t. Alot of things in all classes cant be achieved in SPvP but it is WVW I am playing and until something is done to make playing the class my thief will stay at the login screen.

Retrospek.4583:

as a thief against 5 players would have less of a fighting chance if multiple people DoT them up).

no other class can handle 5 players at once. no player should have a chance vs 5 players at once. only thieves can do it, and they can do it in full berserker gear no less. it’s total trash.

wtf were you thinking when you wrote this?

Teamkiller.4315:

those who think thieves are overpowered should roll one in sPVP and get back to us on it. (Lv 80 guard and ranger, lv 2 thief)

The problem is culling, not thief mechanics. Altho bunker thieves are very difficult to kill.

nobody cares about stupid spvp. this a wvwvw thread (in case the thread title didn’t clue you in)

in sPvP CnD is toned down, only does 66% of damage; in sPvP there is no omnomberry to give glass cannons sustain; in sPvP there is no NPC or Wall to get perma-stealth from chaining CnD. So why compare sPvP to WvW?

Kolly.9872:

Instead of complaining about thieves everytime you got pwned why not try to suggest something usefull on how you would change the class?
of course if you don’t know anything about thieves and just like to complain and see them completely deleted from the game, do not post anything…

here’s my suggestions (coming from a thief):

1- add a very small casting time to steal (I think something from 0.2 to 0.5 sec should be ok). 0.5sec is the actual casting time for C\D while steal is an instant skill, that’s why every thief can use the combo C\D – steal – BS.
Cloack&Dagger was ever meant to be precasted before steal, that is like an exploit.. just try to fight a glass cannon thief that doesn’t use precasted C\D and you will see so many differences, if the thief is good can still win but so can you, and you can actually dodge better his combo.

2 – C\D should simply not work on walls, gate or every not animated thing, also make the revealed buff to appear everytime a thief goes in stealth mode, and not only when he actually does some dmg.
Also add 1 second at the duration of the revealed buff, from 3sec to 4 sec and of course fix the culling.

3 – this is a pve change that will work in WvW too, just improve the AI of mobs, so that when a thief goes stealth, they just don’t reset the combat. I mean at the moment with the culling problem and with the possibility of using C\D on everything, even a fly, many thieves, even myself, are using every mob on the battlefield for exploting the culling.
There are 2 solution: or remove completely every mob from WvW, or change their AI so they don’t lose aggro on the thief when he stealth and goes out of stealth. In this way the thief can still use every mob at his advantage but he will have more things shooting at him once out of stealth.

I think those 3 changes will put the thief in the right direction

Good suggestions. coming from a thief who have tried almost all builds, a 900 distance blink with a pre-casted CnD that leads to either a BackStab or Tactic Strike which could be done in a second is just cheap.

Thieves are fine.

Ive seen eles take on hoards more than whatany thief possibly could.

Ive watched guards get dumped on by a ton of ppl and walk away.

Learn the class before complaining.

You are obviously a thief so of course they are fine but when we have 100 thieves on each map all perma stealthed this game will be great. No deaths but no kills either. They are breading faster than flies in a cow paddock on a sumers day. We all know which class needs attention when this breading cycle begins in an mmo.

purpleskies.3274:

Harbinger.9645:

Solori.6025:

They dont give me problems in spvp in small scale fights like 6v6 and under
Honestly they shouldnt be a problem for anyone in Spvp, unless your a newb running zerk builds cause you like to see l33t numbers.

With the culling, thieves for me in wvw have about 1.5 sec of extra stealth time.
In spvp i see them instantaneously.

This is probably due to everyone having generic colors and armor, and the maps are small without the extra mobs that need to be rendered.

In spvp thieves dont have random mobs to keep stealthing with CnD also, so their only form of escaping effectively is to use utilities like shadow step.
I would say shadow refuge but i have knocked too many thieves out of that circle to call it reliable.

Thank you. Exactly what I was expecting. Obviously you know how to play against a thief and for that I say thank you. If more people were to learn the mechanics there would be fewer arguments about thieves being OP. Hopefully they can fix the issues people have with thieves in WvW without following the direction of a lot of the misinformation floating around. I fear they will make this class unplayable in they make a mistake on any inbound fixes.

Thieves have their abilities do lower damage in spvp and to re-state they don’t have random critters and mobs which gives them a big advantage in wvw. Just thought I would point that out.

Also thieves really do need to be punished for a missed or blocked attack in stealth, that is just ridiculous that they get to try again if the person moved.

Thieves have lowered damage on CnD not backstab,and their heartseeker still hits hard if you get low and dont do anything to mitigate the damage.

I agree thieves shouldnt stay in stealth when they miss an attack from stealth, but that would mean that attacks that miss would need to register 0 damage and bring the thief out of stealth.

Another thing people need to look at is food buffs.
Food buffs in Wv3 can bring any proffession over the top.

Their is a reason they arent allowed in spvp.

Really only dislike thieves en-mass abilities that allow them to reset fights without any penalties.

There needs to be a limit to stealth and a counter to it like a trail or a stealth break if damaged. Otherwise its just a broken mechanic.

I mean i had a thief today try to solo my warrior and it ended with me dancing as he couldnt burst through my def / HP but i couldnt kill him due to perma stealth and reset.

Erinshaw.8035:

You are obviously a thief so of course they are fine but when we have 100 thieves on each map all perma stealthed this game will be great. No deaths but no kills either. They are breading faster than flies in a cow paddock on a sumers day. We all know which class needs attention when this breading cycle begins in an mmo.

You are obviously new to the game.

Try making a thief.
Then come back and state what needs to be toned down when you actually know how the mechanics work.

Just a little insight, just because more people make a certain class doesnt always mean its the most overpowered proffession.

People like yourself said the same thing with mesmers, warriors, guardians, and ele’s
" o look (insert class that kills me) are all over the map, they are so OP so everyone is making them"

Why is everyone implying all thieves are the same? saying 6k mug 7k cnd 14k bs is a gc thief but not every thief is gc. thats like saying i hate rangers, all they do is do that stupid sword evasion attack

RedSpectrum.1975:

Why is everyone implying all thieves are the same? saying 6k mug 7k cnd 14k bs is a gc thief but not every thief is gc. thats like saying i hate rangers, all they do is do that stupid sword evasion attack

Most thieves in WvW (not all use a generic cookie cutter CnD / BStab build). That’s why.

Note its not all they do, some mass stealth to just sit around cap points and back cap but thats been partially fixed. Aside from Anet reworking stealth to be broken on damage like it should be.

TexZero.7910:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Why is everyone implying all thieves are the same? saying 6k mug 7k cnd 14k bs is a gc thief but not every thief is gc. thats like saying i hate rangers, all they do is do that stupid sword evasion attack

Most thieves in WvW (not all use a generic cookie cutter CnD / BStab build). That’s why.

Note its not all they do, some mass stealth to just sit around cap points and back cap but thats been partially fixed. Aside from Anet reworking stealth to be broken on damage like it should be.

eh, i see where youre coming from

Thieves are one of the worst classes in WvWvW, they bring almost nothing into the fight and are horrible at siege and taking and holding points.

They do nothing to help the team and are pretty horrible in 1v1 if you have toughness.

The only thieves that are good in WvWvW are D/P thieves, and they don’t have cripple or chill or swiftness, or anything that can stop you from getting away from them, but most people stand and actually fight them, Just ignore them and take camps, you can’t cap when your stealthed, he will have to come out to stop you.

Thieves only have 2-3 builds, so they are extremely predictable, and all there attacks have an easy to understand rotation. They offer nothing in real-time group support.

Arenanet fell for the same basic mistake as all the other naiive developers. They implemented stealth as invisibility. It’s as simple as that.

Doomdesire.9365:

purpleskies.3274:

Doomdesire.9365:

Columba.9730:

the problem is that anet has allowed perma stealth, the highest dps and the best mobility all on one class. it’s possible because culling allows permastealth without even speccing for it. that’s how he could take out those vet mobs and be perma stealthed. all we can do is to respectfully provide feedback.

Doesn’t have the highest dps. It has the highest burst(steal cnd bs) that has a 30s recharge rate. You can still cnd/bs but that wouldnt be the highest burst.

Who bursts more than a rogue using cnd and BS? I usually see a fully geared rogue hit me for 12-15k with those two alone with steal adding another 2.5-5k depending on crits. A kill shot does only about 12k to me and a shatter usually hits me for around 10-12k .

Rogues can do the BS and C&D every few seconds, and hit with BS more times if they use utilities and their heal, both warriors and mesmers have cool downs.

A full glass warrior can volley for 10K, then killshot for 12, or just switch to GS and whirling GS into them. Or you can run shield axe and evicerate. The axe autoattack is a nasty little bugger too. I’ve seen glass cannon guardians also down glass thieves(usually 10.8K-14K HP) in 3 seconds. Engi burst can also get nasty, although it might not hit more than thieves. Ele’s have 16K burst, but has a long CD. Mesmer’s also have some pretty insane shatter/furry builds that has low CDs.

Most classes can actually achieve the same amount of burst.

True but can they vanish heal on what a spec’d 8 sec cd? What they need to do is break vanish if thief has a debuff.

Doomdesire.9365:

vespers.1759:

Doomdesire.9365:

purpleskies.3274:

Doomdesire.9365:

Columba.9730:

the problem is that anet has allowed perma stealth, the highest dps and the best mobility all on one class. it’s possible because culling allows permastealth without even speccing for it. that’s how he could take out those vet mobs and be perma stealthed. all we can do is to respectfully provide feedback.

Doesn’t have the highest dps. It has the highest burst(steal cnd bs) that has a 30s recharge rate. You can still cnd/bs but that wouldnt be the highest burst.

Who bursts more than a rogue using cnd and BS? I usually see a fully geared rogue hit me for 12-15k with those two alone with steal adding another 2.5-5k depending on crits. A kill shot does only about 12k to me and a shatter usually hits me for around 10-12k .

Rogues can do the BS and C&D every few seconds, and hit with BS more times if they use utilities and their heal, both warriors and mesmers have cool downs.

A full glass warrior can volley for 10K, then killshot for 12, or just switch to GS and whirling GS into them. Or you can run shield axe and evicerate. The axe autoattack is a nasty little bugger too. I’ve seen glass cannon guardians also down glass thieves(usually 10.8K-14K HP) in 3 seconds. Engi burst can also get nasty, although it might not hit more than thieves. Ele’s have 16K burst, but has a long CD. Mesmer’s also have some pretty insane shatter/furry builds that has low CDs.

Most classes can actually achieve the same amount of burst.

they also can’t go invisible every 2 seconds and run away from anything without any fear.

any other glass class is kittened against multiple opponents. thieves can take on a zerg and stop them capping a camp, or keep WPs contested by perma stealth wall hitting.

the only people who think thieves are not broken are people who play thieves and don’t want them nerfed even though they also know they are broken, and people who don’t play GW2.

Your information is outdated. They can’t prevent a cap anymore, not with the recent patch, unless they are visible. And CnD wall stealth is an exploit.

When was the last time you read patch notes/reviewed thief mechanics?

I also would suggest you compare warrior to a thief. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Listing only the advantage of a thief can be viewed as biased.

I’ll start

Thief: Mobility, stealth, burst

Warrior:DPS, high HP pool, versatility(as in, you can go from 1200 range rifle to sword, with a variety of builds suited for anything)

High health pool on a dps warrior? 17-19k is not high.

@Solori
I have one of every class but enjoy my two mains and I have been playing mmos since before there were graphics!!!
So again I can play a perma stealth thief its so easy but boring hence it stays at log in.

The one thing you got right was that people do complain about other classes and good developers look at this and consider remedial actions. The number of threads about thieves since early beta is astronomical.

If you wish to attack me as some sort of noob go ahead but that weakens your defense. To accuse someone of something without knowing their toons or what they play is just Dumb.

Go ahead give me your expert opinion on how to take down a thief or at least meat him on an even playing field. Dont tell us about puffs of grey smoke as I know you are two miles down the road by the time I can react to it

You are such a knowledgeable player that I am sure the whole community is awaiting your very expert solution. We can all then bow to your awesomeness

However everyday I play the game there are more and more thieves I wonder why that is. Please explain your rational for that. Could it be however that people know they are OP in some aspects and need SOME modification not a complete nerf. My Grandchildren play thieves as they say “no one can catch you pop” Now go figure- out of the mouths of babes.

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves are one of the worst classes in WvWvW, they bring almost nothing into the fight and are horrible at siege and taking and holding points.

They do nothing to help the team and are pretty horrible in 1v1 if you have toughness.

The only thieves that are good in WvWvW are D/P thieves, and they don’t have cripple or chill or swiftness, or anything that can stop you from getting away from them, but most people stand and actually fight them, Just ignore them and take camps, you can’t cap when your stealthed, he will have to come out to stop you.

Thieves only have 2-3 builds, so they are extremely predictable, and all there attacks have an easy to understand rotation. They offer nothing in real-time group support.

Thieves in a siege can bring a wall that stops projectiles and combo field for blinds, a very useful aoe stealth which is great for resing, AOE cripple if they use caltrops, by far the best and most frequent access to a blast finisher of any class which is amazing useful and powerful in a group, and they are the only class with a spamable AOE attack which hurts (cluster bomb).

Do they have the best raid utility, no. But if you only see a thief as a single target damage dealer you are not using them to their full effect.

purpleskies.3274:

Daecollo.9578:

Thieves are one of the worst classes in WvWvW, they bring almost nothing into the fight and are horrible at siege and taking and holding points.

They do nothing to help the team and are pretty horrible in 1v1 if you have toughness.

The only thieves that are good in WvWvW are D/P thieves, and they don’t have cripple or chill or swiftness, or anything that can stop you from getting away from them, but most people stand and actually fight them, Just ignore them and take camps, you can’t cap when your stealthed, he will have to come out to stop you.

Thieves only have 2-3 builds, so they are extremely predictable, and all there attacks have an easy to understand rotation. They offer nothing in real-time group support.

Thieves in a siege can bring a wall that stops projectiles and combo field for blinds, a very useful aoe stealth which is great for resing, AOE cripple if they use caltrops, by far and most frequent the best access to a blast finisher of any class which is amazing useful and powerful in a group, and they are the only class with a spamable AOE attack which hurts (cluster bomb) which can also hit in places most other aoe’s cant due to arching and exploding.

Do they have the best raid utility, no. But if you only see a thief as a single target damage dealer you are not using them to their full effect.

Necromancers have probably twice the AOE Damage/Cripple (Along with Poison as well.). Except there arn’t as many of them.

Thieves do have spammable attacks, but the projectiles are VERY slow and avoidable, the poison arrow hits walls before it even hits the target due to its low arc you fire it from.

Thieves do have a wall, yes it does block projectiles, but if a thief uses such, he has to give up OTHER important utilities he needs, so almost no thief would ever have such on his or her hotbar.

@ pulpleskies

just wanted to add that the poison field with the short bow is also kind of nice in group fights.

Nothing new here… Old video of another exploit on the wvw queue to be fixed in the ‘near’ future.

Theves rule in roaming, scouting and small scale fights. In zerg wars they suck.

Erinshaw.8035:

@Solori
I have one of every class but enjoy my two mains and I have been playing mmos since before there were graphics!!!
So again I can play a perma stealth thief its so easy but boring hence it stays at log in.

Just because you " say" you have one of every class and lets pretend that you actually do.
Doesnt mean you learned or are even knowledgeable about the class, your statement proved that much

The one thing you got right was that people do complain about other classes and good developers look at this and consider remedial actions. The number of threads about thieves since early beta is astronomical.

Good thing about A-Net is they dont do sweeping changes to a class just because forum warriors cry for it.
I like others realize thieves are a problem, bit what you and some others fail to identify is the root of some of the problems
I know of a few.
Do you?

If you wish to attack me as some sort of noob go ahead but that weakens your defense. To accuse someone of something without knowing their toons or what they play is just Dumb.

Sorry, but when someone who has " every toon" makes a post with thats basically hyperbolic it leads others to make assumptions.

To make
Go ahead give me your expert opinion on how to take down a thief or at least meat him on an even playing field. Dont tell us about puffs of grey smoke as I know you are two miles down the road by the time I can react to it

Do you want my solution on how to not die?
Kill a thief?
Defend vs a thief?
Catch a theif?

If you chasing a thief, 9/10 they are going to get away.
By design, thats what they are ment to do.
You know what other classes can run away.
Mesmer-
Elementalist-

If you force a thief to leave that area you have won the day, pat yourself on the back your doly is going to make it to the keep that actually needs supply.

Or do people only care about kills and not objectives in Wv3 now?

This isnt a fight club game where everyone sits and has to fight to the death.
If you want a game mode like that their are plenty of single player fighting games.
If you chase of a mosquito then congrats.
But dont expect everyone to follow this self written " to the death code" like NPC’s do.

You are such a knowledgeable player that I am sure the whole community is awaiting your very expert solution. We can all then bow to your awesomeness

Again, solution on what problem
Killing, chasing,surviving?

I have a solution for 2.
and they all revolve around a very simple solution

However everyday I play the game there are more and more thieves I wonder why that is. Please explain your rational for that. Could it be however that people know they are OP in some aspects and need SOME modification not a complete nerf. My Grandchildren play thieves as they say “no one can catch you pop” Now go figure- out of the mouths of babes.

And everyday I play their are more and more rangers.
and guardians
and warriors

and elementalist.

U guyz C how Gud my metrikz for class populations R?

^ Thats basically what I just read from that statement of yours.
You need to go buy some cheese btw..

Try giving an arguement that doesnt sound like hyperbole trash.

Try talking about Quickness clipping
Try talking about stealthing on walls being an issue
Try talking about culling
Try talking about food buffs bringing classes waaaay out of line
Try talking about the norn buffs
Try talking about the spy kits that give everyone perma stealth.
Try talking about CnD on white mobs
Try talking about making the revealed debuff reasonable and what can be compensated.

Please

You have one of every class surely you have reasonable idea’s?

Present them, instead of posting " I see them all the time they are OP"
like you just did.

Dagger/Pistol Thief (Near pema stealth killing zergs)
Again, I guess everyone he kills is a Newb and needs to LTP? But just how to counter? In the video they try AoE, Flailing wildly but they either die or the thief runs around the zerg ivisible.

Joey.2769:

Threads like these show just how lazy some are. The easiest thing to say is this class or that class is so OP nerf now. Instead got to sPvP and roll that class see it’s mechanics then you will be better suited to fight them. I must agree that if they could get culling solved in WvW you will hopefully see less people complain….but again that’s a hope, because kids will still get all but hurt because they were rolling around in zerk gear and got spiked before they could spike.

You saying everything is fine with thieves based on the smallest sampling of the game in terms of player activity as apposed to one of the largest being wv3. Culling and invisibility are broken this is indisputible and until they can fix either and or what do you think the fix should be?

Heres a hint in wv3 there was another issue with orbs what did they do to fix that?

In this topic – thieves telling others to L2P because there’s a lot of players that cannot combat a broken mechanic (stealth) buffed by a broken game engine aspect (culling).

Not in this topic – 90% of thieves admitting to the fact stealth is a broken mechanic, people NOT comparing sPvP to WvWvW (which really needs to stop, sPvP has way less people in it), and people saying guardian/ranger/necro is OP.

Did I miss anything?

Daecollo.9578:

Necromancers have probably twice the AOE Damage/Cripple (Along with Poison as well.). Except there arn’t as many of them.

Thieves do have spammable attacks, but the projectiles are VERY slow and avoidable, the poison arrow hits walls before it even hits the target due to its low arc you fire it from.

Thieves do have a wall, yes it does block projectiles, but if a thief uses such, he has to give up OTHER important utilities he needs, so almost no thief would ever have such on his or her hotbar.

Necros and staff eles have the best AOE I agree. Thieves still have the useful blast finisher and very strong AOE compared to most other class because they can spam the attack (engineers are the only other class that can do this and they have had grenades nerfed several times). And cluster bomb fired down from a wall is not that easy to dodge, and it hurts, which is great when defending doors in a siege. Again I was just pointing out that the thief does bring things to groups and to raids, like good aoe, blast combo, stealth res ect. when someone said the class was useless outside of damage.

As for your comment about sacrificing a utility spot for an anti projectile wall, that is true for every class with a utility ability that helps a group and is also true for people who spec their entire class around support, they give up stuff to help others and their raid. If a mesmer or guardian want their reflect wall they give up a utility, elementalists usually give up their preferred weapon for a time since few run with a focus.

And if you don’t switch your bar based on situations you are not adapting or utilizing the things your profession brings. On my thief I know I have swapped my speed signet several times to use that wall to protect siege equipment or a door. Of course you may have 3 abilities you use most often, but there are situations where other abilities help.

Edit: I also forgot our elite which is a projectile reflect and aoe damage ability, I would say that is also useful to groups. Some of the stolen abilities are also a bit useful although they are less predicable.