Guild Wars 2

Sadly, I started recording after some time, but it still shows what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ULyumpENjo&feature=youtu.be

I ask: wth?!
I don’t mind them being able to burst someone in 2 secs. I don’t mind them having best mobility in game. I DO mind them being able to stop small/medium sized zerg and waste ppls time.
This movie is just one of examples from last few weeks. In this case there are 2 of them, but not long ago 1 thief stopped 10-15 of us in tower for 5 min. We simply didn’t have anough AoE to cover whole floor, and even if we had, I don’t think it’d be enough.
No, I can’t just ignore them, and let them rez some dead mesmer.
No, stealth traps doesn’t work against thief with at least half of brain.
No, “just AoE them noob!” doesn’t work.
Yes, they are very good players. Still, it’s class that allows such things, and no other class gives so big advantage in any other “discipline”. Some are better at some things, but it’s just too much.

I expect nice kitten from thief player, but I don’t care. I made this topic in hope some dev will see it (because sometimes I feel they don’t play the same game). Feel free to discuss, but I don’t plan to respond to don’t make kittenstorm bigger.

L2P issue. Stealth is balanced. You should just hit thief not air.

Yeah Terkov, didn’t your crystal ball come with your copy of GW2?

Terkov.4138:

Sadly, I started recording after some time, but it still shows what I mean:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ULyumpENjo&feature=youtu.be

I ask: wth?!
I don’t mind them being able to burst someone in 2 secs. I don’t mind them having best mobility in game. I DO mind them being able to stop small/medium sized zerg and waste ppls time.
This movie is just one of examples from last few weeks. In this case there are 2 of them, but not long ago 1 thief stopped 10-15 of us in tower for 5 min. We simply didn’t have anough AoE to cover whole floor, and even if we had, I don’t think it’d be enough.
No, I can’t just ignore them, and let them rez some dead mesmer.
No, stealth traps doesn’t work against thief with at least half of brain.
No, “just AoE them noob!” doesn’t work.
Yes, they are very good players. Still, it’s class that allows such things, and no other class gives so big advantage in any other “discipline”. Some are better at some things, but it’s just too much.

I expect nice kitten from thief player, but I don’t care. I made this topic in hope some dev will see it (because sometimes I feel they don’t play the same game). Feel free to discuss, but I don’t plan to respond to don’t make kittenstorm bigger.

I can just feel the FUN you are having there. BTW, the devs already know about this. Their advice is to “just move on, you aren’t going to kill them.”

GW2: Best game ever for trolls and troll builds.

Pssttt… Anet devs. Other games gave players abilities to counter stealth and games which had perma-stealth (which your game does due to certain builds) had stealth removed by damage. Now, I don’t think you should have damage remove stealth since it would destroy non d/p builds. But, what you might want to think about is giving some classes abilities or utilities to counter stealth so bullkitten like shown in the move above can be countered.

why would you disable comments/ratings for the video?

He was on the outer why would you bother with him..?? And if you say that he wanted to res a mesmer then place a stealth trap on the dead mesmer and camp..
Sometimes judge a situation and go on.. hes in outer not in inner, he cant do much than harras some people intil he gets borred and jump off.

Cornholio.1567:

He was on the outer why would you bother with him..?? And if you say that he wanted to res a mesmer then place a stealth trap on the dead mesmer and camp..
Sometimes judge a situation and go on.. hes in outer not in inner, he cant do much than harras some people intil he gets borred and jump off.

Yeah dude, you should just move on like the devs said. It’s not like they can kill any siege you have to protect the outer walls after you have moved on.

if you really hate theives, you can try out a rifle warrior for these thieves. 10k volley channel and 12-14k kill shot will definitely get them dead if they try to shadow your group.

volley will still hit even if they go into stealth, same thing with killshot if you started channeling the skill when they are still targetable.

Junkpile.7439:

L2P issue. Stealth is balanced. You should just hit thief not air.

hope this is sarcasem as stealth is in no way balanced

Oozo.7856:

Cornholio.1567:

He was on the outer why would you bother with him..?? And if you say that he wanted to res a mesmer then place a stealth trap on the dead mesmer and camp..
Sometimes judge a situation and go on.. hes in outer not in inner, he cant do much than harras some people intil he gets borred and jump off.

Yeah dude, you should just move on like the devs said. It’s not like they can kill any siege you have to protect the outer walls after you have moved on.

A thief is not gonna stay there to just kill some siege, yes he might do some damage but its not gonna be any serious damage.. geez all the important siege is at inner anyhow.

Haqiang.6480:

if you really hate theives, you can try out a rifle warrior for these thieves. 10k volley channel and 12-14k kill shot will definitely get them dead if they try to shadow your group.

volley will still hit even if they go into stealth, same thing with killshot if you started channeling the skill when they are still targetable.

Maybe you didn’t notice, but at no time were the thieves targetable.

Oozo.7856:

Cornholio.1567:

He was on the outer why would you bother with him..?? And if you say that he wanted to res a mesmer then place a stealth trap on the dead mesmer and camp..
Sometimes judge a situation and go on.. hes in outer not in inner, he cant do much than harras some people intil he gets borred and jump off.

Yeah dude, you should just move on like the devs said. It’s not like they can kill any siege you have to protect the outer walls after you have moved on.

Well, if they are good at it, they could kill the siege even if you stay. Unless you leave 2-3 people who know how to fight a perma-stealth thief camping each piece of siege.

Also, if there are at least 3 thieves doing this and you leave, they can drop a ram and take the keep (well, maybe not SM, but I bet 5-6 could, given the proper circumstances). I guess you could supply trap all the inner doors, but that’s still a lot of badges and supply for a couple dudes cheesing stealth.

That’s the real issue, the amount of resources/time/players it takes to counter even a few players running perma-stealth builds is disproportionate to the amount of effort required to play these builds, as well as to the effort required to counter any tactic by a similar number of players running any other class/build.

Permanent stealth and long duration CC were things this game was supposed to not have, as they are “un-fun” for people on the receiving end. Neither exactly ended up as discussed during beta, but at least it takes a bit of coordination to run a hammer train or similar chain-CC group, tons more involved to pull it off than one player pressing 2 buttons repeatedly (I have both thief and warrior, before anyone starts on the “it’s hard/easy to play a thief/warrior” jive, I’m quite familiar with both).

In the open field this type of thief isn’t much issue, unless you’re alone, but then any thief build played well will be (and should be). I don’t really see a reason to nerf the stealth stacking.

What I’d like to see is a server-side script that kicks enemy players from intact structures, which aren’t under assault by siege weapons, after a reasonable time to allow tactical maneuvers such as mesmer portals and siege placement (3-5 minutes after all walls/gates are closed and no siege weapon has attacked a wall/gate should be sufficient). It would have to be fairly complex to avoid exploitation, but I think it could be done.

Oozo.7856:

Haqiang.6480:

if you really hate theives, you can try out a rifle warrior for these thieves. 10k volley channel and 12-14k kill shot will definitely get them dead if they try to shadow your group.

volley will still hit even if they go into stealth, same thing with killshot if you started channeling the skill when they are still targetable.

Maybe you didn’t notice, but at no time were the thieves targetable.

Also, a thief running that type of build can have 18-20k HP, around 2.5k armor, regenerate health and lose conditions in stealth, be able to dodge 3-4 times in a row, has ranged and melee blinds up all the time, 2-4 teleport skills/stunbreakers. ANNNNND can be built to have over 100% crit damage without food and have every attack from stealth crit automatically, so that glass cannon rife warrior will die, fast, like really really fast, sorry homey.

Targetable or not.

Traps (The new or old ones) work great on a Thief.
Camping the Body is also a good idea.
Throwing down AoE where they are (Not where they have been) is a good idea aswell.
Ignoring the Thief and using your time wisely.
Getting another Thief to deal with him (Obviously this group had no idea what was going on, it was possible they though a Dragon was attacking)

What I see in this video is a bunch of people who don’t understand Thief, swinging Swords at the afterimage of where the Thief as been.

If a player is good, shouldn’t they be able to do this to a group of unskilled players? I say no coordination going on between that group other then “There” as the Smoke Field. Which if the players understood Thief, they would had known Targeting it would had done nothing because the Thief already had left.

Can a build used to kill a Up-in-your-face-Warrior kill a Thief? Not always. Does every class have a build that can kill a Thief? Yuuuuup.

Thieves have to deal with other Thieves aswell. We know how to deal with them because we are them.

These guys in the video chasing the thief(es) behaved like they are completely new to the game, at least its pvp part. Can`t believe there are still so many weak players spitting nonsense to cover up the inability to improve their play…

A skilled thief or mesmer would`ve taken you guys in the video out easily, not just rotating stealthskills with D/P + 30 SA traited and pray some fools try to chase him, while he is effectively doing… nothing. If it was two thiefes, shame on them for the missed lootbags they couldve gathered by just engaging you guys properly…

And yeah, thiefs hide in keeps to destroy siegeweapons… all the time, because it is so fun and challenging. /Sarcasm off

Best regards

Thrashbarg.9820:

Oozo.7856:

Cornholio.1567:

He was on the outer why would you bother with him..?? And if you say that he wanted to res a mesmer then place a stealth trap on the dead mesmer and camp..
Sometimes judge a situation and go on.. hes in outer not in inner, he cant do much than harras some people intil he gets borred and jump off.

Yeah dude, you should just move on like the devs said. It’s not like they can kill any siege you have to protect the outer walls after you have moved on.

Well, if they are good at it, they could kill the siege even if you stay. Unless you leave 2-3 people who know how to fight a perma-stealth thief camping each piece of siege.

Also, if there are at least 3 thieves doing this and you leave, they can drop a ram and take the keep (well, maybe not SM, but I bet 5-6 could, given the proper circumstances). I guess you could supply trap all the inner doors, but that’s still a lot of badges and supply for a couple dudes cheesing stealth.

That’s the real issue, the amount of resources/time/players it takes to counter even a few players running perma-stealth builds is disproportionate to the amount of effort required to play these builds, as well as to the effort required to counter any tactic by a similar number of players running any other class/build.

Permanent stealth and long duration CC were things this game was supposed to not have, as they are “un-fun” for people on the receiving end. Neither exactly ended up as discussed during beta, but at least it takes a bit of coordination to run a hammer train or similar chain-CC group, tons more involved to pull it off than one player pressing 2 buttons repeatedly (I have both thief and warrior, before anyone starts on the “it’s hard/easy to play a thief/warrior” jive, I’m quite familiar with both).

In the open field this type of thief isn’t much issue, unless you’re alone, but then any thief build played well will be (and should be). I don’t really see a reason to nerf the stealth stacking.

What I’d like to see is a server-side script that kicks enemy players from intact structures, which aren’t under assault by siege weapons, after a reasonable time to allow tactical maneuvers such as mesmer portals and siege placement (3-5 minutes after all walls/gates are closed and no siege weapon has attacked a wall/gate should be sufficient). It would have to be fairly complex to avoid exploitation, but I think it could be done.

Oozo.7856:

Haqiang.6480:

if you really hate theives, you can try out a rifle warrior for these thieves. 10k volley channel and 12-14k kill shot will definitely get them dead if they try to shadow your group.

volley will still hit even if they go into stealth, same thing with killshot if you started channeling the skill when they are still targetable.

Maybe you didn’t notice, but at no time were the thieves targetable.

Also, a thief running that type of build can have 18-20k HP, around 2.5k armor, regenerate health and lose conditions in stealth, be able to dodge 3-4 times in a row, has ranged and melee blinds up all the time, 2-4 teleport skills/stunbreakers. ANNNNND can be built to have over 100% crit damage without food and have every attack from stealth crit automatically, so that glass cannon rife warrior will die, fast, like really really fast, sorry homey.

L2Read?

In no where did I mention that rifle warriors are meant to 1v1 thief , the OP was complaining about not being able to burst thief down with an entire group of 10-15.
Rifle warrior has THE highest ranged class in the game, and can blow up a thief up in the time he is revealed.

Haqiang.6480:

L2Read?

In no where did I mention that rifle warriors are meant to 1v1 thief , the OP was complaining about not being able to burst thief down with an entire group of 10-15.
Rifle warrior has THE highest ranged class in the game, and can blow up a thief up in the time he is revealed.

L2Watch Video.

As Oozo pointed out, the thieves were never visible, so there was no chance to use Volley or Killshot.

Poxheart.2845:

Haqiang.6480:

L2Read?

In no where did I mention that rifle warriors are meant to 1v1 thief , the OP was complaining about not being able to burst thief down with an entire group of 10-15.
Rifle warrior has THE highest ranged class in the game, and can blow up a thief up in the time he is revealed.

L2Watch Video.

As Oozo pointed out, the thieves were never visible, so there was no chance to use Volley or Killshot.

He was never visible in the video, but his position was. Most forms of CC would have made him visible for a long time. The build he is using, he probably has around 15k health and not alot of toughness. Given some CC and a few hits he would go down. His permastealth build is reliant on permastealth for survivability. Take away his ability to use stealth and hes dead. Essentially, the players that were there had no clue what they were doing.

CC seems to stop most thieves. They usually have the same two utilities: shadow refuge and signet of shadows. That means they only have one stun breaker if they’re even using one and their only access to stability is dagger storm.

This is why, at the very least, ranger pet’s should be able to hunt thieves while in stealth. Then leap attack with a knock down when caught. If anyone actually cared about balance, more authentic RP, and fun, they should agree with this.

edit: after watching this again, there should be a threshold where damage breaks stealth.

Haqiang.6480:

L2Read?

In no where did I mention that rifle warriors are meant to 1v1 thief , the OP was complaining about not being able to burst thief down with an entire group of 10-15.
Rifle warrior has THE highest ranged class in the game, and can blow up a thief up in the time he is revealed.

Back at ya there, with the learning to read deal. I wasn’t talking about 1v1, and the thief in that video was NEVER revealed. Apparently you also missed the part where I said I play both warrior and thief, I know what they are capable of. If you have 10-15 people to back you up, the thief can simply NEVER be revealed. If you engage in a small group, prepare to be bursted down, or surprised when your volley doesn’t hit nearly 10k, or he simply evades then entire thing. This build isn’t glass, which you would have seen, had you actually read my post.

Warrior may be classy, but I don’t know what that has to do with anything. If, however, you meant highest ranged damage, I’ve a static-discharge grenade engineer build you may like to try.

Edit: added pics

Protip, he’s not standing in the black powder, he’s hearseekering through it. Stand in the BP and force him to hit you with the heart seeker to bust his stealth..

WereDragon.6083:

Protip, he’s not standing in the black powder, he’s hearseekering through it. Stand in the BP and force him to hit you with the heart seeker to bust his stealth..

Don’t know if you noticed, but the black powders were going off pretty far away from where the OP was standing. Not sure how he was supposed to teleport to the BP spot.

I just want to point out simply.. He really cant do anything in there… He isnt in the inner gate. Most he can do is hopefully find a roamer and burst him down before someone else spots him. Otherwise you are just wasting your time. I have personally had 20+ man zergs come and sweep for me for over 20 minutes before I actually had to go. I had no intent of trying to solo a keep lord let alone SM lord. But to stall an entire zerg for that amount of time is a win alone for me. Ignore him, he will get bored and waddle off to the next tower.

Rifle warrior is a viable counter against the stealth spam thieves, like someone already mentioned. Against 2.5k armor rifle burst hits 15k+ and volley will then finish the job.
However, if played right, d/p can maintain pernament stealth and then even that doesn’t work as you can never target the thief. That set is very cheesy and really needs a tune down.

solutions:
-if damage is taken while in stealth.. the damage numbers should appear the the player delivering the attack.
-If hit by a critical attack while stealth, you should be revealed
-All traps triggered by a stealth player should cause the player to be revealed
-Any attack from stealth if blocked should reveal the player
-If targeting a player that enters stealth, and not acquiring a new target before the stealth player reappears, should automatically re-target
-The first attack from dropping from stealth OR from being stealth should have the same bonuses as the attack from stealth.

Just thought I would mention that I pre-ordered FFXIV:ARR.

Not that it matters to anyone, I’m sure. Cough.

Counting down to infraction.

looks like thief + engineer duo so no, standing in the black powder would’ve done nothing

Marks, and some warrior AoE control skills have both been handy for me when it comes to stealth thieves. CCing them enough prevents refreshing the stealth permanently, and marks are hilarious, since you can pretty much track/detect them around you easily with the size + c/d trait.

^traits, I mean.

Also to go into a bit more detail because there’s always another thread of people having trouble with this: the #2 (‘mark of blood’ or something – I never remember skill names) is really spammable and gives them some bleeds, so it’s good for finding them and also keeping their in-stealth condi removal occupied. The #3 ‘chillblains’ poisons and chills, which is good for movement and their regen, but it’s also a poison field and if you’re quick it’s very easy to detonate #4 in it and add area weakness to that (warriors can also area-weakness with w/h of course, so if you are one or some are handy…), plus if any allies are nearby with conditions, the thief will get those as a gift. #5 is just a short fear on a long c/d, but it’s good as an interrupt and can be used to to thief-proof downed people. You can use it to send him to his death at the hands of allies sometimes, but it depends highly on positioning since he’ll always run away from where you are.

I also like to take the well which converts boons to conditions (his regen), and the one which blinds. Then also the 10pts trait into the precision line (again, I don’t remember lines by name very well) which chills for 1s on blind – and the blinding well. And the plague form with blind. And the focus (chill + remove boons) or dagger (blind & transfer condition) off-hand with the axe or sceptre, both having an AoE cripple… so yeah, all in all it’s nice for generating unhappy times for mobile classes, even if you can’t see them too well.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Haqiang.6480:

L2Read?

In no where did I mention that rifle warriors are meant to 1v1 thief , the OP was complaining about not being able to burst thief down with an entire group of 10-15.
Rifle warrior has THE highest ranged class in the game, and can blow up a thief up in the time he is revealed.

Back at ya there, with the learning to read deal. I wasn’t talking about 1v1, and the thief in that video was NEVER revealed. Apparently you also missed the part where I said I play both warrior and thief, I know what they are capable of. If you have 10-15 people to back you up, the thief can simply NEVER be revealed. If you engage in a small group, prepare to be bursted down, or surprised when your volley doesn’t hit nearly 10k, or he simply evades then entire thing. This build isn’t glass, which you would have seen, had you actually read my post.

Warrior may be classy, but I don’t know what that has to do with anything. If, however, you meant highest ranged damage, I’ve a static-discharge grenade engineer build you may like to try.

Edit: added pics

My understand was you need 20 points in trickery to get permastealth. I cannot recall, but Im fairly certain you need points in trickery. If so, what are the screenshots for>?

You do realize that all the best players roll thieves?

This really isn’t anything to do with thieves – it is to do with professions that have Smoke fields.

Viable smoke fields for doing this:

Engineer: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Bomb_%28engineer_skill%29
Engineer: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Screen_%28engineer_skill%29

Thief: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Powder
Thief: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smoke_Screen

Any profession can use blast finishers to finish the smoke field – I believe it is 3 seconds per blaster finisher – they are able to accumulate up to a maximum ~10 seconds of stealth.

In this case, looking at the field – it does look like there is a thief or two – one is dropping Black Powder (Pistol 5) and another thief spamming cluster bombs (Shortbow 2 – undetonated – blast finisher) into the field to achieve the Area Stealth combo.

Sure thieves and engineers can permastealth doing that – but as soon as they want to do something like kill siege or kill people they become visible.

In this particular case they were no strategic threat to your side – so you should have ignored them and moved on.

All professions now have access to anti-stealth skills – Stealth Traps exist just for this purpose.

Move along – nothing to see here.

I think the obvious answer here is to nerf engineers.

sostronk.8167:

My understand was you need 20 points in trickery to get permastealth. I cannot recall, but Im fairly certain you need points in trickery. If so, what are the screenshots for>?

Nope. With 15 in trickery you get a higher initiative pool, but there’s nothing there to refill initiative faster, which is the real key.

The screenshots are just to show a build capable of “permanent” stealth that has decent survivability and high damage. Check the traits/utilites and how they interact if you’re interested how it works, substitute shortbow for the s/d combo. There have been several comments about how thieves need to be glassy to do damage, or do weak damage when built for survival and stealth. Of course, a rifle burst will hurt, but will be unlikely to insta-down how it would with a berzerker geared build. With that buffer time to react and so many sources of escape/evasion/blind/etc it is extremely hard to score a kill unless you hugely outnumber them or get really lucky or vastly outskill them.

It’s not impossible to kill a decent thief, if they decide to engage you in combat, and I’m not saying it should be made easier even. What I am saying is they should not be able to stay inside enemy fortifications indefinitely.

Thrashbarg.9820:

sostronk.8167:

My understand was you need 20 points in trickery to get permastealth. I cannot recall, but Im fairly certain you need points in trickery. If so, what are the screenshots for>?

Nope. With 15 in trickery you get a higher initiative pool, but there’s nothing there to refill initiative faster, which is the real key.

The screenshots are just to show a build capable of “permanent” stealth that has decent survivability and high damage. Check the traits/utilites and how they interact if you’re interested how it works, substitute shortbow for the s/d combo. There have been several comments about how thieves need to be glassy to do damage, or do weak damage when built for survival and stealth. Of course, a rifle burst will hurt, but will be unlikely to insta-down how it would with a berzerker geared build. With that buffer time to react and so many sources of escape/evasion/blind/etc it is extremely hard to score a kill unless you hugely outnumber them or get really lucky or vastly outskill them.

It’s not impossible to kill a decent thief, if they decide to engage you in combat, and I’m not saying it should be made easier even. What I am saying is they should not be able to stay inside enemy fortifications indefinitely.

So are you saying that that trait build can provide permanant stealth?

Haqiang.6480:

if you really hate theives, you can try out a rifle warrior for these thieves. 10k volley channel and 12-14k kill shot will definitely get them dead if they try to shadow your group.

volley will still hit even if they go into stealth, same thing with killshot if you started channeling the skill when they are still targetable.

it’s viable if they don’t notice the warrior, with the spec and gear required to do 14k you will die in seconds to the thief. Though it is nice seeing a thief come out of stealth downed after a kill shot

sostronk.8167:

My understand was you need 20 points in trickery to get permastealth. I cannot recall, but Im fairly certain you need points in trickery. If so, what are the screenshots for&gt

Generally for permastealth you want an initiative refund + regen build so that means the following traits are most useful:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion_of_Shadow
This trait decreases the cost of Black Powder+Heartseeker from 9 to 7
(10 Shadow Arts)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Recovery
Allows you to regen initiative faster
(20 Acrobatics)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Preparedness
Gives you more base initiative to play with.
(15 Trickery)

Plus the following utility skill if you can spare it:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Signet
Allow’s faster initiative regen (along with a decent active)

You don’t have to choose all of those traits though.

Mainly you want Infusion of Shadow so your heartseekers are cheaper.

I sit back and watch Thieves from my server terrorize small groups to mini zergs. That way I can actually get an idea what the Thief is doing since I can see him even when stealthed. Thief kills someone, stealths, teleports away and watches from total safety as the zerg runs around like a chicken with it’s head cutoff using aoes and swinging their weapons in the air. Laughable.

The biggest problem isn’t stealth …or mobility…it’s stealthed mobility. Daoc had it right. Even though they had perma stealth, your mobility was severly hampered. Your movement speed was maybe 50% slower than not stealthed.

GW2 ? Two different shadowsteps that teleport you 1200+ units away in a blink. Spam heartseekers…use SB and you can put a ton of distance between you and the enemy. Never mind Fleet shadows that is a 50% movement speed while in stealth…..which is kind of weird imo. The fastest movement speed in the game is while stealthed ? Hopefully I have that wrong.

So the Thieves that come on here telling us to use AOE …yea right. Unless you have a 1200 unit aoe spell I don’t know about good luck hitting a thief with it.

Currently there is zero penalty to be stealthed. No movement speed penalty and zero counters. Plus when you are stealthed you can’t even be damaged to take you out of stealth. Yes, you can get hit while in stealth ….but you are also likely under a very strong regen and condition removal….and as mentioned earlier, very unlucky if you do take a ton of damage while stealthed with all the mobility.

Very poor game design.

Stealth in GW2 is pretty much total immunity.

Thrashbarg.9820:

….Warrior may be classy, but I don’t know what that has to do with anything. If, however, you meant highest ranged damage, I’ve a static-discharge grenade engineer build you may like to try…

Edit: added pics

Which is a gimmick build that does damage approaching a glass thief, but still can’t touch a 100 blades on a reasonably geared warrior.

And oh yeah, that glass thief still has the stealth, combat movement, and escape skills that the engineer (me) could only dream of. SD is a gimmick that will die as soon as the ANet devs decide they are done trolling us with a burst build and put in yet another cool down.

Wryscher.1432:

I think the obvious answer here is to nerf engineers.

Always, ALWAYS the answer. >.<

Also, tomorrow (today) is nerf day, known to other professions besides Engies as patch day. GG.

Forzani.2584:

I sit back and watch Thieves from my server terrorize small groups to mini zergs. That way I can actually get an idea what the Thief is doing since I can see him even when stealthed. Thief kills someone, stealths, teleports away and watches from total safety as the zerg runs around like a chicken with it’s head cutoff using aoes and swinging their weapons in the air. Laughable.

The biggest problem isn’t stealth …or mobility…it’s stealthed mobility. Daoc had it right. Even though they had perma stealth, your mobility was severly hampered. Your movement speed was maybe 50% slower than not stealthed.

GW2 ? Two different shadowsteps that teleport you 1200+ units away in a blink. Spam heartseekers…use SB and you can put a ton of distance between you and the enemy. Never mind Fleet shadows that is a 50% movement speed while in stealth…..which is kind of weird imo. The fastest movement speed in the game is while stealthed ? Hopefully I have that wrong.

So the Thieves that come on here telling us to use AOE …yea right. Unless you have a 1200 unit aoe spell I don’t know about good luck hitting a thief with it.

Currently there is zero penalty to be stealthed. No movement speed penalty and zero counters. Plus when you are stealthed you can’t even be damaged to take you out of stealth. Yes, you can get hit while in stealth ….but you are also likely under a very strong regen and condition removal….and as mentioned earlier, very unlucky if you do take a ton of damage while stealthed with all the mobility.

Very poor game design.

Stealth in GW2 is pretty much total immunity.

lmfao this sums it up. No sarcasm. Stealth is OP. It’s funny when thieves who are heavily traited into it deny it.

This is the truth; Truth was your small group never stood a chance in the beginning at all. w/ 5-6 ish of you guys, you have to have in a range of 500-900 range at least from each other to cover as much ground as you can. Everyone has to be very verbal whether in chat or on voice comm to give the location of the thief at all times. As soon as you see the red circles you HAVE to start pouring in your AOEs. Dont stand on top of it because your skills will just miss. You need some awesome knockbacks and CC for very educated guesses of where the thief will be. The idea is that when you see the red cirlce, your small group always wants to surround it but don’t stand in it. Also, when you see exploding animatin in the red circles, they aren’t using a leaping skill to gain stealth anymore, they’re using blast finishers [cluster bomb] on SB. That’s when you stand on the powder in hopes that it hits you, thus giving the thief that 3 seconds revealed buff. 4 awesome classes to help counter perma stealth thieves are guardians w/ GS and shield off hand, or staff, Eles, Mesmers, and Necros.

And we’re assuming you guys all have great teamplay.. lmfao GL on perma stealth!

Because Thieves stealth is not OP! It’s perfectly fine. Just L2P [did you catch the sarcasm?]

Sorry if reposted. Thieves can be stopped by GS guardians, skill 5. Bubbles will block teleports.

Would be interested to know for certain if walls of reflection can stop their teleport, I’ve always assumed it does.

I giggle every time someone complains about a thief. Since thieves have been nerfed so badly I can pretty much kill one starting on half my hp. Granted you do get your skilled thieves, that can really wreck you, I meet a lot of these, although it’s always a close fight, but that’s simply because they’re better than I am. I have a much harder time fighting a mesmer, or a d/d ele than I have fighting a thief.

Nerf them any more and they might as well /sit every time they see an enemy player and wait to die.

I really feel for the OP. Being a ranger, he’s got roughly zero tools to counter that other than blind luck. I mean the thieves will tell him he DOES have counters such as wolf fear, but again it’s pretty much blind luck. Certain classes have better counters to stealth than others. Rangers are definitely on the bottom of that list.

Stealth classes have always been a challenge to fight against in MMO PvP. I must admit GW2’s version is my least favorite out of them all.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

I really feel for the OP. Being a ranger, he’s got roughly zero tools to counter that other than blind luck. I mean the thieves will tell him he DOES have counters such as wolf fear, but again it’s pretty much blind luck. Certain classes have better counters to stealth than others. Rangers are definitely on the bottom of that list.

Stealth classes have always been a challenge to fight against in MMO PvP. I must admit GW2’s version is my least favorite out of them all.

I find rangers quite good against thiefs tbh. Especially when they can res so fast. Underwater I find rangers are actually impossible to kill, whilst on land a ranger is a 50/50 in an evenly skilled fight. A couple of things that are really helpful…

Using Hunters call right before a thief stealths and the birds will flock in on the thief, deal damage and give away their position for a reasonable period of time. This can do around 5k damage and if they were relying on that stealth to survive they are as good as screwed. Also if the ranger does get downed, they have access to thunderclap that denies a finish from stealth and can get their pet to attack until Lick Wounds is available. Greatsword provides alot of good utilities including a block, cripple, evade, daze, swoop (gap closer) and stun. Throw in a GS with entangle and/or Hunters call and the thief is in trouble. If you run SB, try to bait out an early dagger storm and immediately switch to GS so that his ranged damage negation is negated for the rest of the fight :p And a trap is always good.

I find it funny that people still say / think thieves are squishy. Thats so 2012.
You dont need all-out zerker burst gear to do damage since armor means nothing.
Its about game mechanics and stealth/evasion skills are the cool thing 2013.

Ok, I’ll answer after all:

How am I supposed to “hit where thay are, not where they were”? They can go ANY way, it’s not corner, and even if it was, they could have ran past me before I notcied.

They are not dangerous to us? SM was wooden and it got opened by treb. We took them down and repaired wall. Before it they got in. If they rezzed any dead mesmer (and I don’t have map with them all marked, nor the ppl to camp them all), they could cap SM in 2 min.

How is siege on outer walls useless? What about trebs to hit red keep or counter anza trebs? Normally countering them takes more than 2 asura thieves…

And as I said, I stared recording later. When there was only 2 of us, they fought… ofc like thieves – killed guy who was with me in fast combo. I’m rather tanky, so I survived. But they ARE danger to whole EB population, because they can take spawning ppl going through SM to commander 1 by 1. They can do it in field too, but there ppl can expect them – who’d expect to be ganked in own keep?

I know about abilities tracking stealthed thieves (the best one imho is LB 2, coz it has long cast).

Maybe I’m not some pro, but I fought many thieves as ranger (find “Why not Ranger?” on YT). As I said, I understand it’s class with good mobility and imba burst. The only thing imo is totally OP is stealth. The only thing that stopes it from being nerfed, is fact it doesn’t kill ppl. It’s annoying and OP in long-term tactics – things ANet can’t understand for some reason.

And yes, I know thief traits and skills. I play MMOs for 10 years, and I learned to test other classes before saying anything about them.

Nerf them any more and they might as well /sit every time they see an enemy player and wait to die.

Now there’s an idea. I could live with that.

Rhayn.9452:

Nerf them any more and they might as well /sit every time they see an enemy player and wait to die.

Now there’s an idea. I could live with that.

Of course you would. Because anything that’s not shoved into your mouth with a spoon is unbalanced and should eff off..

/rant

ChroNoS.6978:

Rhayn.9452:

Nerf them any more and they might as well /sit every time they see an enemy player and wait to die.

Now there’s an idea. I could live with that.

Of course you would. Because anything that’s not shoved into your mouth with a spoon is unbalanced and should eff off..

/rant

My thoughts too. Someone like Rhayn will be happy to know that I hung up my daggers after last patch, and I was pretty good at it. I got fed up by all the whining criers, and the fact that Anet is actually listening to them. My thief is now my account’s acting mule. Any stealth dependant thief that hits a stealth trap nowadays really may as well /sit and await the inevitable. They’re dead anyway. May as well just exchange the stealth trap for something that merely insta-kills any thief. It’s better than running about flailing like a moron until death. At least it’s quick, and there’s nobody there to laugh and bag me simply because they bought a trap.

While they’re at it make it fair and design a similar trap for every class. Yeah, I’m being sarcastic, but that’s about how this feels. A profession that does little outside pestering the enemy and pwning in 1v1’s gets nerfed.