Guild Wars 2

I agree, Tier 1 it’s kitten right now. It’s not tier 1 it’s a a slaughterfest for vizunah to enjoy 24/7.

People gave up on it, it’s way too tiring to fight a server such as vizunah, yet we’re stuck in tier 1 for god forbid how much longer. It kills the will to play wvwvw, it doesn’t let people get exploration, it makes the game not fun to play at all. We need something to fix this, ASAP. SFR lost already too much…

Just to make it clear, I do not blame Vizunah. I don’t want it to turn into another thread of blaming Vizunah. I want it to be a constructive topic on how this can be solved so both our servers to go back to happily playing WvW in a tier where we belong at our current strength.

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

EU servers in general are imballanced check out tiers 1,7,8 and sometimes 3 and 5

Seafarer and Desolation doesn´t have the wvw players that was playing when they entered tier1, vizunah still has alot of players. Vizunah has kept it´s playerbase and that´s awesome on their part, to have loyal people that doesn´t leave for various reasons, that can sustain a good coverage and manpower throughout the crisis they might or might not have had.

Desolation and Seafarers is NOT tier1 material anymore, it hasn´t been for a couple of weeks now (if not more) and I doubt that Vizunah are enjoying themselves without a proper fight.

There are still some players and guilds left in these two servers who wants to stay but who can say how much longer? There can still be fights on the borderlands on primetime, desolation and seafarers can still be top ppt but just look at the last 2 weeks end results, vizunah has atleast double the total amount of points. It´s stupid!

Come to tier 1 NA, if SOR gets a few EU guilds, we can have the first truly competitive 3 way match that is decided in the last few hours at the highest levels of play since wvw was released.

Lots of respect for hanging in there so long Narai, hope in the end you get rewarded for it somehow!

As of now though neither Desolation nor Seafarer’s Rest are of tier 1 quality. What’s the point in a tier 1 if it doesn’t have the best three servers? Half of our people have given up because we cannot compete. Some people still play to get points and have some fun, but ultimately we will not be able to compete again untill we drop a tier or two or some miracle happens. The points game is almost pointless to play because in the end it doesn’t make all that much of a difference, because we simply lack the manpower to challenge first. We really need time to rebuild, get our morale up and have something to fight for again.

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

Come over to tier one NA. SoR could use some Euro’s to make this an awesome match up.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Come over to tier one NA. SoR could use some Euro’s to make this an awesome match up.

If that’s the only way out of this, that should send a message to ArenaNet. If leaving was an option I would’ve done so already, but I want to make it work out on Desolation. I respect everyone that decided they wanted to move on and go to another tier and have good fights and some fun again. I even considered it myself at one point, I still have a tiny bit of faith left though. It really shouldn’t be necessary that an entire server does a mass exodus to other servers just because of this impossible situation. But unfortunately that process has already begun. That’s also why it is so crucial that something is done about this as soon as possible.

There is a problem, a game breaking 1. Good wvwers are quitting the game, and what do we get? An arrowcart buff and ranks.

Its can be so easy. Ask 10-15 hardcore wvw guild leaders about their thoughts about wvw before you change stuff.

You destroyed my first love, team arenas in gw1 and now you are going for my second 1. WvW

Witzard.6829:

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

We already tried that, it’s impossible to not score any points. And no matter how bad we do, whoever is in tier 2 will just score what they need to not move up. We paid for the game, we want to play the game. Not boycott it for two months so we can have fun again. This is the only way out of this that I can see as of now, untill another server does what is necessary in tier 2. But as I said, it is beyond our control. It shouldn’t be that way.

Rigel.5789:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Come over to tier one NA. SoR could use some Euro’s to make this an awesome match up.

If that’s the only way out of this, that should send a message to ArenaNet. If leaving was an option I would’ve done so already, but I want to make it work out on Desolation. I respect everyone that decided they wanted to move on and go to another tier and have good fights and some fun again. I even considered it myself at one point, I still have a tiny bit of faith left though. It really shouldn’t be necessary that an entire server does a mass exodus to other servers just because of this impossible situation. But unfortunately that process has already begun. That’s also why it is so crucial that something is done about this as soon as possible.

You need to consider if this headache is worth staying on your server…. at some point actually having fun in a video game will have to outweigh any kind of server loyalty.

Anet will not be able to fix this situation without a massive overhaul of wvw. In either case, unless you transfer… expect to not enjoy wvw for a very loooooong time.

If there exists a way to track how many people (from each server) are on each map then i propose this:
The points are calculated by the relationship between the server numbers.
Example:
red team have 10 players
blue team have 20 players
green team have 100 players (T1EU)
The lowest team is the base (in this case red)
The relationship between the two are: Blue 2X and Green 10X
working this into % we have a point reduction of 50% for blue and 90% (it can never be more than this) (this is calculated per tick)
The reasoning behind this as that no matter how much you are outnumbered the outnumbering server must hold more to get the same points.

This would also allow the servers with NOT MUCH COVERAGE to move up. (as long as they played well).
This then turns the meta into skill and tactics – NOT about numbers and time coverage.

I believe it would work well against the servers that blob and map hop when they notice attacks. In the above example red team would get 10 points for capturing a tower whilst green team would only get one point (and blue 5)

They did manually change Sorrow’s Furnace rating a while back though. They have shown the will to act in similar situations before. A new temporary system wouldn’t be that much of a hassle to implement. I just hope they listen to us. My fear is that I will not be able to enjoy WvW for a very long time, that’s also why I went on here to get our concerns across in a polite manner.

Samstein.5269:

Seafarer and Desolation doesn´t have the wvw players that was playing when they entered tier1, vizunah still has alot of players. Vizunah has kept it´s playerbase and that´s awesome on their part, to have loyal people that doesn´t leave for various reasons, that can sustain a good coverage and manpower throughout the crisis they might or might not have had.

Desolation and Seafarers is NOT tier1 material anymore, it hasn´t been for a couple of weeks now (if not more) and I doubt that Vizunah are enjoying themselves without a proper fight.

There are still some players and guilds left in these two servers who wants to stay but who can say how much longer? There can still be fights on the borderlands on primetime, desolation and seafarers can still be top ppt but just look at the last 2 weeks end results, vizunah has atleast double the total amount of points. It´s stupid!

Its only stupid because of 24/7 coverage from vz while the other two can’t. IF you actually track the evolution income you will realise that at PRIMETIME it is a very 3way affair and not one sided- BUT it is the coverage outside of these times that is dictating some ludicrous scores

There are many people that need help with this ratings system. The NA T5 matchup is kind of stuck too. EBay dropped down to T5 9 weeks ago. On the week we went down many guilds took a week off of WvW to do some other things. The upstart Borliss Pass server played well above expectations and handed us a loss in the tier and crippled our ratings. Since then we have won every matchup – this week by 100k over both servers – but the damage done by that single loss is almost insurmountable.

Because of the ratings gap in T4 with SoS coming from a higher tier, SBI and CD both extend their lead on us each week while losing their matchups, making our gains to move back to the tier negligible.

This isn’t fun for anyone at this point as BP and AR in our tier really have no say in what happens – we can basically decide for them which one we want to place 2nd or 3rd – while beating them by large margins does very little for us either. At the current pace, winning by 100k+ each week we will still be facing the exact same matchup for a minimum of another 5 weeks. No one in our tier wants that, we all are dying for a change of pace, tactics and scenery.

Can we please just accept that for WvW to be fun, the ratings need more volatility and room to move? The occasional blowout in either direction is fine, no one is going to quit because they moved up and couldn’t handle what came at them… but no one should be forced to roflstomp the same servers week in and out, or be booted in the head week in and week out just to maybe one day 3-4 months from now finally be able to move in one direction or the other. That’s just lame.

Under Web.2497:

Samstein.5269:

Seafarer and Desolation doesn´t have the wvw players that was playing when they entered tier1, vizunah still has alot of players. Vizunah has kept it´s playerbase and that´s awesome on their part, to have loyal people that doesn´t leave for various reasons, that can sustain a good coverage and manpower throughout the crisis they might or might not have had.

Desolation and Seafarers is NOT tier1 material anymore, it hasn´t been for a couple of weeks now (if not more) and I doubt that Vizunah are enjoying themselves without a proper fight.

There are still some players and guilds left in these two servers who wants to stay but who can say how much longer? There can still be fights on the borderlands on primetime, desolation and seafarers can still be top ppt but just look at the last 2 weeks end results, vizunah has atleast double the total amount of points. It´s stupid!

Its only stupid because of 24/7 coverage from vz while the other two can’t. IF you actually track the evolution income you will realise that at PRIMETIME it is a very 3way affair and not one sided- BUT it is the coverage outside of these times that is dictating some ludicrous scores

Most of the servers in the top few tiers can have queues in primetime and do well. It is alot about coverage, that’s how the game is. No matter what you try to do to work around that it will never be balanced. But this is not the time or place to discuss that. As of now there are other servers out there that probably have better coverage and a better chance in tier 1 than us, thus they should be in tier 1, not us.

Khayoss.2019:

There are many people that need help with this ratings system. The NA T5 matchup is kind of stuck too. EBay dropped down to T5 9 weeks ago. On the week we went down many guilds took a week off of WvW to do some other things. The upstart Borliss Pass server played well above expectations and handed us a loss in the tier and crippled our ratings. Since then we have won every matchup – this week by 100k over both servers – but the damage done by that single loss is almost insurmountable.

Because of the ratings gap in T4 with SoS coming from a higher tier, SBI and CD both extend their lead on us each week while losing their matchups, making our gains to move back to the tier negligible.

This isn’t fun for anyone at this point as BP and AR in our tier really have no say in what happens – we can basically decide for them which one we want to place 2nd or 3rd – while beating them by large margins does very little for us either. At the current pace, winning by 100k+ each week we will still be facing the exact same matchup for a minimum of another 5 weeks. No one in our tier wants that, we all are dying for a change of pace, tactics and scenery.

Can we please just accept that for WvW to be fun, the ratings need more volatility and room to move? The occasional blowout in either direction is fine, no one is going to quit because they moved up and couldn’t handle what came at them… but no one should be forced to roflstomp the same servers week in and out, or be booted in the head week in and week out just to maybe one day 3-4 months from now finally be able to move in one direction or the other. That’s just lame.

That’s also why we need people like you to speak up, the more the better. The more examples of this exact problem, the better for our cause. We need to show ArenaNet that this change is something we all want and that it is urgent. The way the current rating system is the rating difference between the tiers will grow everytime one server moves up a tier and another down. Over time nobody will be able to move anywhere, it simply needs to be changed for the sake of everyone.

Why do you want to unbalance all other tiers to fix your mess?

Wanze.8410:

Why do you want to unbalance all other tiers to fix your mess?

Over time a new rating system would make every tier balanced, not just a few of them. Neither Desolation or SFR has the population to shut out tier 2 anymore, we won’t be unbalancing anything. With you being on Ring of Fire and all I have a feeling you will see a bit of an unbalanced matchup yourself this week. Another server that should be moving up the tiers is seemingly stuck in tier 7 for now.

The whole purpose of tiers is gone if they can’t match up the best three servers with each other.

Rigel.5789:

Witzard.6829:

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

We already tried that, it’s impossible to not score any points. And no matter how bad we do, whoever is in tier 2 will just score what they need to not move up. We paid for the game, we want to play the game. Not boycott it for two months so we can have fun again. This is the only way out of this that I can see as of now, untill another server does what is necessary in tier 2. But as I said, it is beyond our control. It shouldn’t be that way.

I feel sorry for you, really :/

Samstein.5269:

Samstein.5269:

Seafarer and Desolation doesn´t have the wvw players that was playing when they entered tier1, vizunah still has alot of players. Vizunah has kept it´s playerbase and that´s awesome on their part, to have loyal people that doesn´t leave for various reasons, that can sustain a good coverage and manpower throughout the crisis they might or might not have had.

Desolation and Seafarers is NOT tier1 material anymore, it hasn´t been for a couple of weeks now (if not more) and I doubt that Vizunah are enjoying themselves without a proper fight.

There are still some players and guilds left in these two servers who wants to stay but who can say how much longer? There can still be fights on the borderlands on primetime, desolation and seafarers can still be top ppt but just look at the last 2 weeks end results, vizunah has atleast double the total amount of points. It´s stupid!

Its only stupid because of 24/7 coverage from vz while the other two can’t. IF you actually track the evolution income you will realise that at PRIMETIME it is a very 3way affair and not one sided- BUT it is the coverage outside of these times that is dictating some ludicrous scores

Once again, this i don’t understand. How can one server be so ahead of the other in term of coverage. I don’t deny it’s happening, but I simply don’t get it, Deso&SFR have (had?, thanks to Iron & co) way more timezones, but still, there is a majority of VS during the offtime.

Wanze.8410:

Why do you want to unbalance all other tiers to fix your mess?

Because they’re getting crushed. VS finished the week with over 350k points i think, 1.5x the two other servers combined. They should drop, it’s not fun losing (and “winning”) with so much point difference. Yet they can’t, because T2 servers are doing whatever they can not to get up…

Witzard.6829:

Wanze.8410:

Why do you want to unbalance all other tiers to fix your mess?

Because they’re getting crushed. VS finished the week with over 350k points i think, 1.5x the two other servers combined. They should drop, it’s not fun losing (and “winning”) with so much point difference. Yet they can’t, because T2 servers are doing whatever they can not to get up…

I wouldn’t say that we do anything not to move up (I wish we did), but it’s clear that no server in T2 has serious intentions to move up to T1 and fight Viz, because well…. you know the attitude of the vast majority towards them.. I think most of us are still happy that we got a somewhat balanced matchup, so why would we want to shoot ourself in the foot by moving up a tier and eventually being locked there just like you guys are?

The Frenchies on Vizunah simply need to spread towards the other French servers. I guess its clear to all of us that Viz is the most crowded and active WvW server in whole EU, so by making Viz lose players the T1 would balance itself et voila, you got your fancy T1 matchup. Make them transfer to other servers, I don’t even get how they can regularly bear queues of 3 hours, whereas every other server in T1/T2 almost never have queues and if they have it’s like 1 hour max. This would certainly influence the whole EU ladder, so that we might get new matchups.

So Anet: free transfers to the less populated French servers.

Say they did change the rating system. Would you mind moving up for a week if you knew that there was no chance you would get stuck?

I believe the unevitable is just being delayed though. Eventually either SFR or Desolation will have to drop from tier 1.

Funny enough, I just posted about having a Blackout to shake up WvW. I’m trying to wrap my brain around why, all of a sudden, Guilds are sever hopping all over the place. Tired of reading of worlds imploding. As a few already mentioned, you’re always welcome in T1 NA.

How about the old motto, “If you can’t beat them, join them” In this instance not Vizunah but, Desolation and Seafarer’s Rest merge? The PvE community shouldn’t mind much, you can guest back to PvE still. At the very least you can 2v1 the heck of them this coming week!!!

Good luck though…..

It’s not the way we want to play. We want to use our community and players to their full extent to win on our own. Make something people can be proud of again. We still have the potential as a server, and the playerbase. It will take some weeks to unleash that potential though as we still have a steady influx of new players. I don’t think Desolation is dead, but it’s mostly in the hands of ArenaNet whether the bad trend will continue or not. It is definitely out of our control. This is why I don’t want to leave, cause the potential is still there. We can still do things as a server, we can still have fun times. However, all we can really go for in tier 1 at the moments is the moments and the fights.

We could probably have some good, even fights in tier 2 or tier 3. Wherever we end up for that matter, and I think even the servers in the other tiers wouldn’t mind a change of opponents for a change. If they implement the winner goes up, loser goes down thing you won’t have to face the same opponent for two weeks straight at least.

This is the tenth week of the same tier 1 matchup. Fourth straight week where we aren’t trying, or have a chance for that matter. At some point in time someone at ArenaNet must’ve seen our posts and realised that their current rating system has it’s flaws. That is the main point I want to get across with this.

It needs to be changed, and it needs to be changed as soon as possible. The longer it goes the more broken the matchups will become and more scenarios like this one will pop up. Let’s prevent that damage from happening. It is such a simple fix.

Rigel.5789:

Witzard.6829:

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

We already tried that, it’s impossible to not score any points. And no matter how bad we do, whoever is in tier 2 will just score what they need to not move up. We paid for the game, we want to play the game. Not boycott it for two months so we can have fun again. This is the only way out of this that I can see as of now, untill another server does what is necessary in tier 2. But as I said, it is beyond our control. It shouldn’t be that way.

Have we? I guess the bigger guilds can just tell their own members about that but I don’t recall seeing anything about that in being mentioned in the WvW map chats. It shouldn’t be necessary to acquire absolutely no points, just not enough points.

I agree with the playing the game you paid for thing but I guess I can’t really empathize since I play more on the PvE side of things.

There is also the third option of Desolation and SFR combining to fight VS. The problem there is that there is nothing in game to make that work. Even if it does work I am not seeing a whole lot of benefit for either server.

Under Web.2497:

If there exists a way to track how many people (from each server) are on each map then i propose this:
The points are calculated by the relationship between the server numbers.
Example:
red team have 10 players
blue team have 20 players
green team have 100 players (T1EU)
The lowest team is the base (in this case red)
The relationship between the two are: Blue 2X and Green 10X
working this into % we have a point reduction of 50% for blue and 90% (it can never be more than this) (this is calculated per tick)
The reasoning behind this as that no matter how much you are outnumbered the outnumbering server must hold more to get the same points.

This would also allow the servers with NOT MUCH COVERAGE to move up. (as long as they played well).
This then turns the meta into skill and tactics – NOT about numbers and time coverage.

I believe it would work well against the servers that blob and map hop when they notice attacks. In the above example red team would get 10 points for capturing a tower whilst green team would only get one point (and blue 5)

There is certainly a way to track how many people from each server are on each map, that is how the game knows when you have to queue to get in. The scoring would be good if the only thing that mattered was the score but it isn’t. VS already has enough people to steamroll everything. Your proposed change just means Desolation and SFR would have an even harder time of getting rid of them.

It is sad to see a matchup like that. However it is not exclusive to t1 eu. Unfortunately there are examples all over the place. Said all along merge EU and NA then there is 24 hour coverage for everyone and restrict server transfer drastically. There is no difference playing wvw on na or eu . Ask any Australian about ping etc but it does not affect or stop us playing and without any noticeable penalty. Also give no warning just do it

And the fact that even more tiers and players are affected by this just shows that something has to be done. As stated before, at least be a bit more open about your plans to combat these things in the future. As far as I’m aware we have had no response from ArenaNet on any of our concerns. It looks like it could stay this way for all eternity. All of the servers that are currently affected by the current glicko system should come together and show how many people want to see this go through. I am perfectly aware that there are more. T7 EU, T5 NA to name a few. But I can only speak for myself and the general consensus on my server when I make a topic like this.

laquito.5269:

The Frenchies on Vizunah simply need to spread towards the other French servers. I guess its clear to all of us that Viz is the most crowded and active WvW server in whole EU, so by making Viz lose players the T1 would balance itself et voila, you got your fancy T1 matchup. Make them transfer to other servers, I don’t even get how they can regularly bear queues of 3 hours, whereas every other server in T1/T2 almost never have queues and if they have it’s like 1 hour max. This would certainly influence the whole EU ladder, so that we might get new matchups.

So Anet: free transfers to the less populated French servers.

Where are you getting those queue times from? If that is true that just makes the blackout even better. They can sit in a 3 hour queue to get in and then … do absolutely nothing. Well maybe not nothing, EB might be good for farming some lodestones.

To be fair I really enjoy the night long epic defenses, last night in particular when just 6-10 of us Deso night-shift puggers fended off hordes of Vizunah; 2 waves of seige attacks then an alpha/omega golem rush and kept it t3 for the morning crews to arrive and fend off viz’s massive attack with two waves of trebs, catas and zergs smashing into Overlook keep.

But yes, it’s horribly imbalanced, barely hanging on to a single t3 tower and keep when the entire rest of the map is green and SFR have vanished is ridiculous, and weeks and weeks of this is getting too much, t1 EU is completely broken.

bring back culling problem solve

Both servers are on a direct path down the tiers. It will happen soon. Anet doesn’t need to do anything.

Khisanth.2948:

Rigel.5789:

Witzard.6829:

Khisanth.2948:

Air.3154:

I know. The point is, vizuna is literally cleaning it’s kitten with deso and sfr x) That isn’t exactly fun, it’s a fight we can’t win (especially now that people got tired of fighting viz, while in viz there is SO many people they hardly get tired at all), we need a decent situation. Something that we can you know, actually fight.

Well I guess there is still one option left. Bore the enemy to death(just completely abandon WvW for the next month or something). Organizing existing people to not fight seems a lot easier than organizing non-existent people to fight. People in the lower tier attempting to do the same would only help the cause. Either they do something or they can deal with the PR of WvW being dead on a pile of servers.

I think this is better than asking ANet for help because this can be done NOW. ANet only seems willing to do things on a monthly cycle.

Action through inaction has a sort of weird appeal to me.

Without any action of Anet, this, as i see of it, is the only option you’d have to change the situation right now. Simply boycot WvW for 1-2 weeks, that should be enough to drop one tier …

We already tried that, it’s impossible to not score any points. And no matter how bad we do, whoever is in tier 2 will just score what they need to not move up. We paid for the game, we want to play the game. Not boycott it for two months so we can have fun again. This is the only way out of this that I can see as of now, untill another server does what is necessary in tier 2. But as I said, it is beyond our control. It shouldn’t be that way.

Have we? I guess the bigger guilds can just tell their own members about that but I don’t recall seeing anything about that in being mentioned in the WvW map chats. It shouldn’t be necessary to acquire absolutely no points, just not enough points.

I agree with the playing the game you paid for thing but I guess I can’t really empathize since I play more on the PvE side of things.

There is also the third option of Desolation and SFR combining to fight VS. The problem there is that there is nothing in game to make that work. Even if it does work I am not seeing a whole lot of benefit for either server.

Under Web.2497:

If there exists a way to track how many people (from each server) are on each map then i propose this:
The points are calculated by the relationship between the server numbers.
Example:
red team have 10 players
blue team have 20 players
green team have 100 players (T1EU)
The lowest team is the base (in this case red)
The relationship between the two are: Blue 2X and Green 10X
working this into % we have a point reduction of 50% for blue and 90% (it can never be more than this) (this is calculated per tick)
The reasoning behind this as that no matter how much you are outnumbered the outnumbering server must hold more to get the same points.

This would also allow the servers with NOT MUCH COVERAGE to move up. (as long as they played well).
This then turns the meta into skill and tactics – NOT about numbers and time coverage.

I believe it would work well against the servers that blob and map hop when they notice attacks. In the above example red team would get 10 points for capturing a tower whilst green team would only get one point (and blue 5)

There is certainly a way to track how many people from each server are on each map, that is how the game knows when you have to queue to get in. The scoring would be good if the only thing that mattered was the score but it isn’t. VS already has enough people to steamroll everything. Your proposed change just means Desolation and SFR would have an even harder time of getting rid of them.

No this would NEVER stop the zergs – BUT it might make the scoring system better- SO THAT for all there blobbing VZ would not automatically be top of T1 – OR EVEN IN T1 AT ALL.
It would also help with the blob shifting to other maps- if that meant a 90% reduction to everything on the map would the blob be so eager to wp for one keep?
TRUTH- SOME people get disheartened with the massive score difference and seeing all bl green

Sharpoon.8197:

Both servers are on a direct path down the tiers. It will happen soon. Anet doesn’t need to do anything.

It will take a year there is currently 78 glicko pts between 3rd and 4th that is a lot

Desolation is going to lose 1.4 glicko points this week, after getting Vizunah curbstomped by more than 220,000 points.

They aren’t lying when they say this is comparible to Tier 8 NA. Desolation is trapped in a blackhole. At this rate, they can get curbstomped on this order of magnitude for the next 28 weeks and they will STILL be in tier 1. And thats assuming they lose by roughly 220,000 points every week (since this is par performance). If they have a “good” week and lose by only 150,000 points they will actually gain rating. Their only saving grace is that SFR is capable of losing alot of glicko rating and is more likely to swap places with a tier 2 server, which should accelerate Deso’s descent.

But to put things into perspective, Eredon Terrace and Fergs Crossing endured months and months of this kind of curbstomping at the hands of Sorrow’s Furnace. Anet had to intervene directly to stop this becoming permanent.

Ultimately, the scoreboard, server ranks and the matchmaking system need to be drastically changed. It really encourages the worst possible mindset for a game of this type.

Its ok to have ladder ranks and realtime score updates in a game that has even sized teams play a match with a fixed duration and strictly limited conditions for victory.

WvW is a persistent game where team size varies drastically throughout the day. This is not competition and should not be treated as such.

The best thing anet can do is publish data on the number of concurrent users logged into wvw by timezone so everyone can see precisely what server has how many people on and at what time. They should matchmake by nearest population size and timezone coverage with a limited shuffle so you sometimes play servers a little bigger or smaller than yours but not one where you would get totally roflstomped.

If you lose 400 players in a mass exodus its no problem, you just get matched up with lower population servers the next week. If you gain 400 players in a bandwagon jamboree, you do not get a month of curbstomping servers that don’t have a chance. You get matched up with servers that are closest to your size and coverage.

Finally, get rid of the scoreboard. No matter what, people want to win. Nobody wants to lose. When its your own ability determining whether you win or lose then its fine because your wins and losses define you as a player, and reflect your performance over time.

In WvW whether you win or lose is entirely out of your hands if you are in a match up like T1 EU. There is nothing Deso can do about the outcome and the game is effectively over the moment the match starts.

The best thing anet can do for WvW right now is remove this psychology from the game and all traces of the idea that WvW is a competition or that winning has any meaning beyond who has the most bodies in the most timezones.

Scoreless sparring matches against a rotating pool of servers with similar numbers is the only way to go. Do what you feel like doing in WvW because its a game and its about having fun. It is not an obligation to win or lose. It is not a second job. It is not months of getting curbstomped so you can get even a shot at a fair fight. It is not about being number 1 server in NA or EU. What does that even mean?

If there must be competitive scoring matches, then limit them to 2 days on weekends where people can actually afford to stay up late and partially compensate for lack of timezone coverage. The week days are free for alls for sparring/practice until the next competitive weekend.

And for the love of god, re-examine downed state/rally mechanics and eliminate the difference between non superior and superior siege so they can be balanced effectively (and not make arrowcarts shoot further than ballistas without a target or line of sight). At least outmanned teams can in some way offset lack of numbers with ability and coordination.

Besetment.9187:

Desolation is going to lose 1.4 glicko points this week, after getting Vizunah curbstomped by more than 220,000 points.

They aren’t lying when they say this is comparible to Tier 8 NA. Desolation is trapped in a blackhole. At this rate, they can get curbstomped on this order of magnitude for the next 28 weeks and they will STILL be in tier 1. And thats assuming they lose by roughly 220,000 points every week (since this is par performance). If they have a “good” week and lose by only 150,000 points they will actually gain rating. Their only saving grace is that SFR is capable of losing alot of glicko rating and is more likely to swap places with a tier 2 server, which should accelerate Deso’s descent.

But to put things into perspective, Eredon Terrace and Fergs Crossing endured months and months of this kind of curbstomping at the hands of Sorrow’s Furnace. Anet had to intervene directly to stop this becoming permanent.

Ultimately, the scoreboard, server ranks and the matchmaking system need to be drastically changed. It really encourages the worst possible mindset for a game of this type.

Its ok to have ladder ranks and realtime score updates in a game that has even sized teams play a match with a fixed duration and strictly limited conditions for victory.

WvW is a persistent game where team size varies drastically throughout the day. This is not competition and should not be treated as such.

The best thing anet can do is publish data on the number of concurrent users logged into wvw by timezone so everyone can see precisely what server has how many people on and at what time. They should matchmake by nearest population size and timezone coverage with a limited shuffle so you sometimes play servers a little bigger or smaller than yours but not one where you would get totally roflstomped.

If you lose 400 players in a mass exodus its no problem, you just get matched up with lower population servers the next week. If you gain 400 players in a bandwagon jamboree, you do not get a month of curbstomping servers that don’t have a chance. You get matched up with servers that are closest to your size and coverage.

Finally, get rid of the scoreboard. No matter what, people want to win. Nobody wants to lose. When its your own ability determining whether you win or lose then its fine because your wins and losses define you as a player, and reflect your performance over time.

In WvW whether you win or lose is entirely out of your hands if you are in a match up like T1 EU. There is nothing Deso can do about the outcome and the game is effectively over the moment the match starts.

The best thing anet can do for WvW right now is remove this psychology from the game and all traces of the idea that WvW is a competition or that winning has any meaning beyond who has the most bodies in the most timezones.

Scoreless sparring matches against a rotating pool of servers with similar numbers is the only way to go. Do what you feel like doing in WvW because its a game and its about having fun. It is not an obligation to win or lose. It is not a second job. It is not months of getting curbstomped so you can get even a shot at a fair fight. It is not about being number 1 server in NA or EU. What does that even mean?

If there must be competitive scoring matches, then limit them to 2 days on weekends where people can actually afford to stay up late and partially compensate for lack of timezone coverage. The week days are free for alls for sparring/practice until the next competitive weekend.

And for the love of god, re-examine downed state/rally mechanics and eliminate the difference between non superior and superior siege so they can be balanced effectively (and not make arrowcarts shoot further than ballistas without a target or line of sight). At least outmanned teams can in some way offset lack of numbers with ability and coordination.

Besetment.9187:

If they have a “good” week and lose by only 150,000 points they will actually gain rating. Their only saving grace is that SFR is capable of losing alot of glicko rating and is more likely to swap places with a tier 2 server, which should accelerate Deso’s descent.

That is the thing that has had me confused for a while(actually still confused by it). How can we be gaining rating while losing?!

Right now http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU shows that VS is way ahead of either Desolation and SFR. It has more than both combined yet VS is the one losing rating? Am I looking at that chart incorrectly?

Oeps Rolls Necro.2594:

Its can be so easy. Ask 10-15 hardcore wvw guild leaders about their thoughts about wvw before you change stuff.

SWTOR tried that and it was a disaster. I actually think it is a good idea, as long as what the guild leaders request is tempered against the entire WvWvW player base too. The game has to be enjoyable for all of the participants, not just the hardcore guilds.

The ranking system really has to change, and soon though. This isn’t the first time we have seen this happen. I hope it is the last.

Even t3/t4 in EU is as stale as month old bread although largley fairly balanced.

The problem is, which T2 server should go up.
They won’t stand a chance against VZ either.

I am on Kodash, T2 EU and we have the same matchup for 8 weeks now.
I don’t know how VZ is, but I can assume that no T2 server would stand a chance.

Why would anyone want to fight in T1, when you know you cannot win.
Megaservers are a huge problem. Huge enough for drastic actions like forced server splitting.
If a server is becoming so huge and dominant, that the lower tiers, like we in T2 actually try to lose a week, if winning would mean that they will go up a tier, then you cannot fix this by tweaking the ranking system.

Nobody deserves to be stuck in tier 1. If there is some sort of rating tweak, nobody will ever have to worry about being stuck in tier 1 ever again. I’m pretty sure a few servers could get much closer to Vizunah score wise than we ever could, even with another 28 weeks in tier 1. We have lost a good chunk of our guilds. People have quit the game, and people have stopped playing for points entirely. If we did tryhard for a week we would maybe only lose by 200k instead of 233k.

The problem is we need two servers to put pressure on Vizunah off peak, we don’t have that. They simply focus us down one by one, taking everything we have because we aren’t at the same level we once were. If two servers didn’t go through this stuff at exactly the same time, one would’ve dropped much faster. It did happen however, and now the only solution for any of the three tier 1 servers to ever have even matchups again is a change of opponents.

Maybe the worlds shouldn’t fight each other at all? I understand the mechanical reasons for the separations but, do they have to divide us? That’s the question…

Maybe WvW should evolve into a higher order of level. Where worlds are chosen to fight alongside each other and against other groupings within a story arc. Maybe it’ll give that missing meaning to WvW.

Just thinking out loud.

DeWolfe.2174:

Maybe WvW should evolve into a higher order of level.

Everyone eat Quaggan tonic and run around yelling “Foo!”?

Varonth.5830:

The problem is, which T2 server should go up.
They won’t stand a chance against VZ either.

I am on Kodash, T2 EU and we have the same matchup for 8 weeks now.
I don’t know how VZ is, but I can assume that no T2 server would stand a chance.

Why would anyone want to fight in T1, when you know you cannot win.
Megaservers are a huge problem. Huge enough for drastic actions like forced server splitting.
If a server is becoming so huge and dominant, that the lower tiers, like we in T2 actually try to lose a week, if winning would mean that they will go up a tier, then you cannot fix this by tweaking the ranking system.

There is only one fix: No more T1, use random matches instead.
Everyone has a chance, but it only lasts a week.
As a side effect, this would allow Glicko-2 to really work. Neither in tennis nor chess nor … the ranking is used to make the matches.

It’s a serious issue, which needs addressing. It’s not going to be fixed by restructuring ratings though, unfortunately. IT’s the fact that Viz are a national server, they will always have the upper hand, for one reason or another. I stomached too many weeks of viz, my guild is only small, and would generally partake in small skirmishes, that is not possible when they have ZERO small groups, and just roam with 100+ to a supply camp. They are an unstoppable force that will not be affected by a rating tweak. Wether they are T1 or T7 they will roam in huge numbers and make WvW an unlikeable experience.

Witzard.6829:

Once again, this i don’t understand. How can one server be so ahead of the other in term of coverage. I don’t deny it’s happening, but I simply don’t get it, Deso&SFR have (had?, thanks to Iron & co) way more timezones, but still, there is a majority of VS during the offtime.

Last night, reset night, there were around a dozen Iron actually playing in WvW. A lot of other guilds have already left, one of them that was very active at night.

WvW from Deso is now mostly random zergs and smaller (semi)-organized guilds. Havent seen a all-guild zerg in quite some time.

Khisanth.2948:

That is the thing that has had me confused for a while(actually still confused by it). How can we be gaining rating while losing?!

Right now http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#EU shows that VS is way ahead of either Desolation and SFR. It has more than both combined yet VS is the one losing rating? Am I looking at that chart incorrectly?

The system is broken. They designed some math burdened system to create a utopia of server balance and got their numbers wrong.
This is why is virtually impossible to drop to tier2 for either Deso or SFR, simply because the winner in tier2 seems to lose more points then the loser in tier1.

The system they are using is to complicated and should be made much simpler. Winner goes up, loser goes down. Which creates a much more dynamic flow through tiers, which isnt a bad thing. As it also means the tiers reflect changes within servers (ppl leave, new wvw guilds join, etc) much more accurately.