Guild Wars 2

TatsuKan.5412:

Lara Croft.5807:

A question aside adressed to Viz gamers… Are you organizing main TS in French or English? Also Baruch gamers: Spanish or English?

For Vizunah, we speak in French on our TS.
Why communicate in English when we all speak the same language?

Lara Croft.5807:

I just thought what it would look like to have more than 1 French server… ok now it is way too late as probably the majority of French players are settled there and got their collegues and relations there established…

Thought about what it would look like to get weakest server redefined to a French server or add just 2 new ones to the ladder for French players….

You should take a look at the server’s list.
There is 5 “French Speaking” Servers :
- Arborstone (Pierre Arborea)
- Augury Rock (Roche de l’Augure)
- Fort Ranik
- Jade Sea (Mer de Jade)
- Vizunah Square (Place de Vizunah)

you still prolly need to be distributed better or something cuz on t1 the situation it’s unbearable

We have queues and yet there’s so little guys for our server playing compared to the vizunah blob it’s just absurd lol

Rigel.5789:

A league could’ve possibly worked out if paid server transfers were in from the start. The populations are so unbalanced at the moment that I don’t really see it working out.

Might still work if we divide EU and NA into 3 leagues each, instead of tiers of 3. Everyone plays everyone else in every combo, then top 2 up, bottom 2 down. You are only playing teams across 3 of the old tiers and get a lot more variety.

Just a point to Troma. You say that 99% of VZ is EU based, and that you have no members from canada and australia. That is not true, if you didnt know it thats fine but dont go making statements saying that all your wvw players are EU based and just play at 3AM in the morning. La réunion, for example, you have players from this island which is well outside of EU timezones, and dont come back and tell me that you dont, there is even a gw2 gaming community site which can easily be found using Google where they specifically state the play on your server.

Its probably the same for all the DOM-TOM islands around the world which also are not Mainland EU based (they are defacto members of the EU but no where near based here, maybe you were just trying to play with words). Please dont use the argument that you do not have overseas coverage on your server, its easy to check.

In terms of what Tier 1 is suffering atm, its no different from what every other tier has suffered all along. The only difference is no change in matchup because there’s nowhere to rise to once you get to T1.

Rigel.5789:

It’s a bit of a shame that certain top tier servers are cheap to transfer to and some low tier servers are expensive to transfer to. I mean with guesting you won’t really transfer for PvE so they should think about WvW population a bit with this.

This is one issue I find that Anet has also ignored, the Deso community is in such a state I don’t recognise us anymore we need to rebuild but we still can’t drop after weeks, the lag and the recent wvw changes doesn’t help either I build arrow carts to counter the blob but it just despawns because of the timer.
It’s petty and wrong to blame Viz for Anet’s mistakes.

Hm i explain with more details why i say this:

The stable pool of nightplayer when holidays are off (in a range of 30-150 people when there is the call to arms) is almost always the same and people know each others. When i took my holidays i played a lot at night with them and didn’t notice foreign players (ok there is not always an accent of course)

What you see now is the mix of multiples factors:

1) SFR fall so the “barrage” is broken > maps go full green
2) last biggest call to arms we ever done
3) french holidays
4) the “winning” effect bring more people
5) commanders and players keep their habits (we will try to work on this)

Anyway SFR problems are very sad for me. Of course i don’t talk about some lamers who trolled and trashed us/me, i talk about the nice workers and people who want to build a community, like people of pevepe.net. This sux for them.

And it sux for us. I hate this situation, even if i’m doing a little break at the moment. If i were active i doubt i would play. I want fights, i want feel presure, i want to see commanders worrying and trying to find solutions, i want to be attacked everywhere and make epic charges in your mass. And i know i’m not alone, we talk about it everyday. This situation will make VS loose guilds and players too you will see.

Anet had diamond in their hands with WvW and instead of polishing it they totally broken it into pieces. One day it will be too late for them to fix this.

Can you give me the website of Réunion players you are talking about? very curious never heard about it, it’s possible you are right.

Don’t even bother, La Réunion lives at UTC+4, which is two hours from France. Not even close to explain any superior nightforce.
If you add the fact that there is around 800k inhabitants only on the island, that the access to the internet is probably fairly limited …

It is, however different for La Martinique and La Guadeloupe, those islands are UTC-4 and there is approx. 800k inhabitants (400k on each island). But I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone from there play.
If I was living there, I guess I’d play on the US servers, they are so much closer …

Nightingale.8364:

Just a point to Troma. You say that 99% of VZ is EU based, and that you have no members from canada and australia. That is not true, if you didnt know it thats fine but dont go making statements saying that all your wvw players are EU based and just play at 3AM in the morning. La réunion, for example, you have players from this island which is well outside of EU timezones, and dont come back and tell me that you dont, there is even a gw2 gaming community site which can easily be found using Google where they specifically state the play on your server.

Its probably the same for all the DOM-TOM islands around the world which also are not Mainland EU based (they are defacto members of the EU but no where near based here, maybe you were just trying to play with words). Please dont use the argument that you do not have overseas coverage on your server, its easy to check.

Maybe I’ll do once and for all a big post about France and French speaking people all around the world.

Let’s begin with La Réunion since you talk about it. It’s NOT out of EU timezone because it’s GMT +4 hours. That’s exactly Moscow time. Remember, Earth is round.

Now, what about the playerbase of La Réunion ?

Let’s first sum up the french-speaking people in EU timezone : France, part of Belgium, part of Switzerland, some people in Africa, Africa being in the EU timezone (just have a look on a map, it ranges from GMT+0 to GMT+3, which is less that Russia once again). You get something along 80 to 90 million people.

La Réunion is 0.8 million. That’s less than 1% and I’d even say that If I were living in such a paradise, I would be surfing and getting my leg eaten by a shark than playing some videogames indoor.
Now, I won’t do the calculations, you are free to Wikipedia the stuff, but the same goes for La Martinique, La Guadeloupe and Guyane in terms of population and population geekiness. Of course, these 3 territories are GMT -3 and GMT -4, so yeah, that’s outer of EU timezone. Could have had an impact, but I don’t recall having discussion with anyone from those places when I played at night.

Actually, that’s close to Canadian timezone. Here we go. What about the calculation here ?
Québec is 8 million people, rather really interested in videogames compared to other countries in the world, and GMT -5. Now we are talking ! Except there’s a little problem : when Arborstone hired Armata from Canada to play with them (20 people) against us, we as Vizunah contacted ALL the guilds we were able to find at that time and all answered : nah, we are well inegrated on NA servers, we won’t move, there’s nothing of interest in Europe for us.

On the other side of the world, there still is some French speaking people : Polynésie Française, Nouvelle Calédonie and smaller Wallis & Futuna. Nouvelle-Calédonie is GMT+11, 0.25 million inhabitants. It’s quite small, however I think there was/is a guild from there playing on one French server (but not Vizunah). La Polynésie, GMT -10, is about the same number of people but much more scattered throughout many islands. Honestly, except in Papeete the capital (.025 m), there is just no way they have a decent ping. And there is no way you want to play videogames when you live there.

All other French DOM-TOM are extremely small (or lack inhabitants) except the “recently acquired” Mayotte which is quite poor. So that’s it.

I guess there are some people in Vietnam still speaking French, but I “fear” it’s only the old.

In my opinion, from what I heard, the bigger portion of French-speaking people playing on not-EU times are French/Belgian/Swiss people working abroad, in any country of the world. But I think there is also a lot of German/Russian/whatever people doing the same. So it should be comparable. I don’t think French people are specific for their willingness to travel.

In the end, we end up with the same conclusion Troma and others repetitively gives you all : people playing at night on VS are people with different work schedules or jobless or in love with the game or insomniac. And some nerds.

Phoebe we speaked about this ingame, and you know it:

before the CTA the situation was extreme for us. Arseus from MORT came back to help us with his leading, Edennae gm of LNM asked his commanders to play a lot, and many others commanders made sacrifice to tank a week more. We even think we were going to fall ! but when some commanders came talk to me and said “please, we are still here even if it’s hard as hell, do not give up” i thinked: “i can’t let them fall”

The only thing i could do for all them was the biggest call to arms ever done. Yes, maybe the actual situation is a little bit of my fault, but i took the risk. It was Vizunah or you. I’m full of respect but in this virtual wargame, i will always think about my server in the first place.

This was the right thing to do.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Yesterday I counted the different guild tags on EB from Vizunah square. Result?

41 =D hahahahahaha. Grand Cross organized?

Not relevant.
Not objective.

There are, currently, 27 guilds associated with Grand Cross. Some are made of 2 people, some regroup 500. (http://www.grandcross.fr/liste-des-guildes/)
We do not play under the [GC] tag.
We try to split up evenly between the maps, EB being a very special map : there are very few GC guild of decent size playing there. There are guilds that are not part of GC ([MN] is the first I can think of) and A LOT of PUGs. ‘Cause it’s the easiest farm map.

Imo Viz are just as much to blame as Anet for the demise of EU WvW and once Deso and SFR are completely gone I’m going to enjoy seeing Vizunah’s reaction then with no one to fight. Whenever Vizunah are losing they just hop BL and totally zerg the enemy and usually bring skill lag too. They know it’s going to result in lag for everyone but still do it, when it’s peak times or weekends Deso or SFR are usually ahead of Viz which just shows what guilds are good tbh.

Troma.3250:

Phoebe we speaked about this ingame, and you know it:

before the CTA the situation was extreme for us. Arseus from MORT came back to help us with his leading, Edennae gm of LNM asked his commanders to play a lot, and many others commanders made sacrifice to tank a week more. We even think we were going to fall ! but when some commanders came talk to me and said “please, we are still here even if it’s hard as hell, do not give up” i thinked: “i can’t let them fall”

The only thing i could do for all them was the biggest call to arms ever done. Yes, maybe the actual situation is a little bit of my fault, but i took the risk. It was Vizunah or you. I’m full of respect but in this virtual wargame, i will always think about my server in the first place.

This was the right thing to do.

then again, he is speaking of the call to arms AFTER sfr broke down already, by then you were already in dominance and seriously in no need to beat up 2 dead servers even more.

No Air, the Call to arms was exactly just before all this. In this moment, i have just heard that you had problems with some newcomers but nothing more.

@Phoebe : never spoken of “best guilds”, please read carefully.
We do have resistance during prime, at least some days. And guilds usually play during prime.
The rest is your usual bs.

@Air : there was no Call to Arms when we were winning. I could go in the archives of the GC website and the [mos] scores to prove you wrong, but you know as well as me that you don’t do call to arms when you win.

My bad then, i just interpetated phoebe’s words wrong

Troma.3250:

The only thing i could do for all them was the biggest call to arms ever done.

Just as info (no flame no drama) you’re referring to the one made in mid- March who got crushed by SFR (but that was a close match!) or the one launched as soon as SFR got hit by Free Transfers and started to crumble (extra overkill)?

Just asking, i swear, no flame intended.

Yes it’s not the one from march

one copy of the CTA is still here: http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthread.php?t=1217175 The preparation of this one started 5 days before. In this time i was exhausted by internal dramas resolves (sometimes 10+ dramas per day in my mailbox)

at this moment, i’ve just heard a SFR commander raged on newcomers due to transfers, and saw 1 or 2 whines on SFR “pugs”, nothing more. I swear

Good point Andrew, I wanted to bring it up.
Troma did two Call to Arms:

The fist one called Last Stand , got crushed by SFR, but it was one of the best WvW weeks ever!.

The second one was EXACTLY when free transfer mockery hit SFR and Grand Cross saw that SFR is not able to log their guilds into WvW anymore to counter the VS hordes.

The second one was their coup-de-grace , I’d say.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

It was just fear for it.

More than enough, don’t you think ?
When you built something that awesome, when you stayed at the top for 8 months and then all of a sudden, some big guy comes and breaks you, fear strikes.
You couldn’t see it from the inside, so you have absolutely no idea what was at stake. Absolutely none.

If you want to create a constructive atmosphere here, please refrain from using numbers you found in your hat. I don’t think there was ever 200 people at 3:00AM on VS’s side.

@Grok: to be exact i did many many call to arms before ! the March one was named in english: “The golden age of Vizunians is maybe over” =)

for the coup-de-grace, i didn’t know it will be going so far. Imagine us as downed state and throwing a last sword in your face but instead of cutting your hands it cut your head.. this is how i feel after that.

And i always remind that if we were in downed state, its because you putted us in. Thats why i blame vizunians braggers and i will never forget this hellish situation we had. Hard but so great in the same time. Actual situation smells ****

Yeah, obviously you know muc h more about VS than me.
It’s not a competition, I’ll let you win

There might be a 30-man “blob” (we should really define which number is considered blob, it would help during discussions) hopping from map to map during the nights. Big deal.

Lovely reply, full of hypothetical if and buts (i would be surfing, they probably dont have decent ping etc etc etc). Trying to cover up something you dont actually know about and cant. My point was that troma said something that no one can possibly say is true or not true except possibly anet. “99% of our server is EU based”.

In all likelyhood you have players from all zones in the world. To say you only have french speakers on your server is probably the picture you have from your own ts servers, listening to the people who speak. As No.1 server you have no doubt “pugs” following from outside the EU, just because you are No1 and bandwagonners love being on No1. This is not your fault and I’m not saying it is.

If one thing your post proves that the possiblities for your “100% based french speaking” server are extemely far reaching. As for the current situation in T1 being the fault of VZ server i would totally disagree, its the fault of Anet. The work that GC have done to organise the server is admirable and no one can doubt the server pride you have. My only worry is this statement “I will always think about my server in the first place”. Your server pride may be getting in the way of the overall bigger picture. My advice would be to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, is the current T1 situation really good for your server? If this situation continues what will happen to the community that you have worked so hard to build? What should anet do?

As No1 server VZ has the responsability to also look at the game as a whole and not just your own server. Nombrilisme is dangerous.

Well, now if you’re not in a famous WvW guild, you’re only a useless PU who don’t care of WvW and come only for Karma.
Hope it’s a Troll, Phoebe. Really…….

Troma.3250:

for the coup-de-grace, i didn’t know it will be going so far. Imagine us as downed state and throwing a last sword in your face but instead of cutting your hands it cut your head.. this is how i feel after that.

Well, nobody can blame you for what happened to SFR, neither the SFR players and community, it’s Anet fault only.

Which is why a lot lot lot of ppl got such a huge burnout and disappointment from game and WvW.
You say “we got real fear after 8 months of n°1” (i’m not going to argue about how you’ve stayed there, that’s a fact and as such must be treated) and i understand your feelings.
But try to understand ours: we spent our time and energies to build a community which plays differently and who aim to the top, we held our ground and worked hard for it, kept trying to improve and then what? All gets crushed, and not for our fault or your pressure, but from the above of Anet insane decision. And now it’s all gone.

It’s not a good feeling, i can assure you.

So you would do the same but no, “you are the great evil VS”, so you should have done otherwise.
I get that you dream to see VS fall, but we do not play for you.

Once again, you have no clue about what was happening inside, what was at stake.

If you really want it, I think it’s do-able to find the exact dates of everything, maybe build a graph, and you’ll see that the flow of events is coincidental.

I very well remember that week. People on VS were quite depressed, we saw that Anet opened the free transfers to SFR which was expected to be even worse for us (we were expecting to see an even higher coverage from both Deso and SFR, while we were already failing to win at night & morning). And nearly all the commanders were on their knees. Actually, at that time, the “new” Vizunians (LNM, among others) did a huge contribution but they were starting to burn as well.

Troma saw this and did a last of the last CTA. I think it was supposed to be the last one like “hey we did what we could but it’s the end”. I really was thinking it was desperate. I think part of the purpose was to be able to have a basis on which we would re-build. With the “we never give up” spirit.

We were no aware SFR was actually having problems with pugs instead of being reinforced by them. There were some rumors (basically the posts on the official thread), but I was thinking (and many with me) that it was some kind of strange propaganda.

Intention was to save VS, nothing more, nothing less, and I was thinking it was a lost cause.

I swear, as well, that it was my perspective.

As for the present situation, /sigh…

Zepolak.2095:

If you really want it, I think it’s do-able to find the exact dates of everything, maybe build a graph, and you’ll see that the flow of events is coincidental.

I very well remember that week. People on VS were quite depressed, we saw that Anet opened the free transfers to SFR which was expected to be even worse for us (we were expecting to see an even higher coverage from both Deso and SFR, while we were already failing to win at night & morning). And nearly all the commanders were on their knees. Actually, at that time, the “new” Vizunians (LNM, among others) did a huge contribution but they were starting to burn as well.

Troma saw this and did a last of the last CTA. I think it was supposed to be the last one like “hey we did what we could but it’s the end”. I really was thinking it was desperate. I think part of the purpose was to be able to have a basis on which we would re-build. With the “we never give up” spirit.

We were no aware SFR was actually having problems with pugs instead of being reinforced by them. There were some rumors (basically the posts on the official thread), but I was thinking (and many with me) that it was some kind of strange propaganda.

Intention was to save VS, nothing more, nothing less, and I was thinking it was a lost cause.

I swear, as well, that it was my perspective.

As for the present situation, /sigh…

It’s a shame it ended how it is now. People fled from sfr and deso, vizunah going hard on the servers that were being abandoned and tore by internal fights (which again, thank you arenanet, we hate you with passion), just made people give up all togheter.

Thinking about it’s it’s like…what you didn’t want to happen in vz happened to the two other server in t1 thanks to the combined effort of vz and anet xD (no flame intended eh, as i said i respect the work you guys have did to pull in pugs and whatnot)

AndrewSX.3794:

But try to understand ours: we spent our time and energies to build a community which plays differently and who aim to the top, we held our ground and worked hard for it, kept trying to improve and then what? All gets crushed, and not for our fault or your pressure, but from the above of Anet insane decision. And now it’s all gone.

It’s not a good feeling, i can assure you.

That, I think I can understand. You build it and it’s crushed by something you have no control over.

Just so that the discussion would be constructive, here’s why the debate is so hot I think : VS was built on pugs, with the idea “everyone is a one” and welcoming to newcomers. SFR, from the vision I have which might be wrong of course, was around the “guilds above all – pugs go away”-elitist approach.

People on VS can’t understand this attitude, it looks arrogant. People on SFR don’t understand the VS attitude as well. So some people on VS it’s “normal” that SFR is “punished” for not having been able to cope with something looking normal and even helpful : a mass of newcomers.

It’s like discussing Politics on forums. With the difference Anet can change the situation how they want. I guess they want pug servers.

Vizunah is communist !

They should do something like what WM (wvw guild in NA) did: transfer out from t2 into t8 or something, or disperse amongst the other tiers to provide fun wvw action for all.

Zepolak.2095:

AndrewSX.3794:

But try to understand ours: we spent our time and energies to build a community which plays differently and who aim to the top, we held our ground and worked hard for it, kept trying to improve and then what? All gets crushed, and not for our fault or your pressure, but from the above of Anet insane decision. And now it’s all gone.

It’s not a good feeling, i can assure you.

That, I think I can understand. You build it and it’s crushed by something you have no control over.

Just so that the discussion would be constructive, here’s why the debate is so hot I think : VS was built on pugs, with the idea “everyone is a one” and welcoming to newcomers. SFR, from the vision I have which might be wrong of course, was around the “guilds above all – pugs go away”-elitist approach.

People on VS can’t understand this attitude, it looks arrogant. People on SFR don’t understand the VS attitude as well. So some people on VS it’s “normal” that SFR is “punished” for not having been able to cope with something looking normal and even helpful : a mass of newcomers.

It’s like discussing Politics on forums. With the difference Anet can change the situation how they want. I guess they want pug servers.

Vizunah is communist !

You have a GREAT advantage though with pugs and whatnot. They all speak the same language.

It’s ALOT less awkward to follow someone you can perfectly understand, join ts with people you can actually talk to without the barrier of language in between.

It’s true, some guilds got annoyed at pugs on sfr, but we DID try. Many guilds posted pevepe ts in wvwvw map inviting everybody to join, people trying to lead others with simple orders as possible, but the truth is, when you’re all different, it’s hard to stay togheter. No matter if people joins pevepe ts, some don’t even know english, some understand it barely when spoken, some can speak a choppy english and some none at all, we don’t have the huge advantage of being united under the same language, and that’s a fact.

this morning Ruins of Surmia was almost 30k ahead of the other two servers and ticking +330… yet was -15.085

The score system is broken, does not work and creates a static ladder that everyone from the bottom to the top hates. Whether you are at the bottom seeking promotion or at the top seeking demotion, people want to play against different servers. People do not want to be stuck in the same tier week in and week out (except possibly Viz).

So please change the system to a one up, one down at the end of each week. It will make the entire of WvW a lot more fun.

It will also help fix tier 1 a little bit until you can sort the servers out to cope with the lag and fix ac so that Viz game play does not continue to destroy the game.

Nightingale.8364:

Lovely reply, full of hypothetical if and buts (i would be surfing, they probably dont have decent ping etc etc etc). Trying to cover up something you dont actually know about and cant. My point was that troma said something that no one can possibly say is true or not true except possibly anet. "99% of our server is EU based".

In all likelyhood you have players from all zones in the world. To say you only have french speakers on your server is probably the picture you have from your own ts servers, listening to the people who speak. As No.1 server you have no doubt "pugs" following from outside the EU, just because you are No1 and bandwagonners love being on No1. This is not your fault and I’m not saying it is.

If one thing your post proves that the possiblities for your "100% based french speaking" server are extemely far reaching. As for the current situation in T1 being the fault of VZ server i would totally disagree, its the fault of Anet. The work that GC have done to organise the server is admirable and no one can doubt the server pride you have. My only worry is this statement "I will always think about my server in the first place". Your server pride may be getting in the way of the overall bigger picture. My advice would be to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, is the current T1 situation really good for your server? If this situation continues what will happen to the community that you have worked so hard to build? What should anet do?

As No1 server VZ has the responsability to also look at the game as a whole and not just your own server. Nombrilisme is dangerous.

+1 this.

I have much respect for the rallying ability Troma has on VS and all the work he has done. But sometimes server pride isn’t everything. You have to look at the actual game. In it’s current state literally no one will play soon.

VS play style while effective at making sure you can have ’pride’ in being the most winning server, is runing the game for soooo many people. Lets just look at T1.. guilds are leaving in droves, everyday i see less and less people in WvW, moving server or just quitting. Take the latest casualty for instance IRON, a guild many say they respected, why do you think they left and are moving to other servers or games? First is obviously the current state of GW2, but more importantly, it is just being tired of never ending VS. People can deal with faulty mechanics and gameplay for a while, but the fact that VS don’t have to have huge roaming blobs to win, and yet they still play this very same style just makes the whole T1 pointless.

VS.. Troma.. I seriously ask that you look at your play style. Ask yourself this, Do you really have to fight the way you do?.. If you were in Deso / SFR’s position, would you really like this happening to you?...

I am willing to work with SFR and VS both to rectify the situation in any way I can until Anet can fix it. My view is that if Anet can’t fix it at the momentit is up to us as the affected servers to try and sort it ourselves.

I would also like to add however, that I fully agree with a 1st goes up, 2nd stays, and 3rd drops system. It should have been implemented from the start in my opinion and offers the fairest results. Maybe couple it with a full rating reset. While this would undoubtedly be a bit unfair on the lower tiers if they get a superserver match up, VS v Vabbi for example, it would only lead to 1-2 weeks of it instead of the current state in which 2 T1 servers (which are actually more T4-5 atm) in desperate need of breathing room to rebuild, are now dying day by day.

How many more people have to quit for good before Anet takes notice.

It’s true, some guilds got annoyed at pugs on sfr, but we DID try. Many guilds posted pevepe ts in wvwvw map inviting everybody to join, people trying to lead others with simple orders as possible, but the truth is, when you’re all different, it’s hard to stay togheter

Adding in: one of the problems was that the average pug quality (which was very good, most ppl used to T1-T2 wvw, good knowledge of builds/profs/maps, following on ts public commanders etc) went down the cliff with influx of ppl that maybe until the day before played their best wvw on T7 (no offence to T7 or lower tier, but it’s a different wvw, i think everybody agrees).

With “bad” pugs in, guild raids and “good” pugs locked out, well, things couldn’t turn good.

Excellent comments from Troma. I can imagine the game gets boring for VS as well. Here are Desolation we have little motivation to defend. If manage to defend too well, it would mean more points to our server, but we want to drop down the ladder. Thus the game has become completely silly: nobody wants to upgrade anything or build much defensive siege (except VS ), because everything ends up night capped by VS. Anycase in the morning VS controls 95-100% of the map. Recapturing a tower gives more WXP than defending it, and recapturing is generally very easy (no, Anet should NOT make it more difficult, there are much better solutions to this, in fact the current changes made defense a bit too easy thanks to overly buffed Arrow carts). So basically the game boils down to:
1. Arrive to the map and find that everything under enemy control
2. Start capping small objectives e.g. supply camps and towers first
3. Capture a keep or more towers
4. Let the enemy take your tower and keep unless it looks like it would such a fight where you can farm WXP
5. Rinse and repeat #3-4.

I think almost everybody agrees that the even, balanced matches are the best. Thus the game needs to have mechanism to make the fights more even. The game has potential for huge epic fights, every day, every evening. I want to see that happening!

Here are Desolation we definitely have the language problem. I was shocked to find that even some of my guild mates didn’t speak any English. It was extremely difficult to play with them in WvWvW as there was no common language. Currently I know that Desolation has a lot of Finnish, Turkish and Russian players. Most of them speak English, but not everybody communicates well in English.

I wish the commander would better tools to lead the troops e.g. at least:
1. Change the color of the commander tag (each BL and EB can invent their own meanings to color)
2. Write a name, which is attached to your tag e.g. main commander, supply roaming team commander, PuG commander etc.
3. Ability to draw on the map so that everybody who is in the near vicinity of that commander will see it in the mini map (this would work past language barrier)
4. Ability place points or markers on the map e.g. to signal the next objective (this would also be language independent)

I find it truly annoying that I cannot give commands via the map chat as a commander. The game gives me error messages “Your message has been suppressed due excessive messaging”. Not every PuG uses TeamSpeak and I want my PuG team to be informed.

I used to work as a game designer and I can tell you that these suggested changes would be easy to implement. Anet give us better balance and better tools to lead our troops!

AndrewSX.3794:

It’s true, some guilds got annoyed at pugs on sfr, but we DID try. Many guilds posted pevepe ts in wvwvw map inviting everybody to join, people trying to lead others with simple orders as possible, but the truth is, when you’re all different, it’s hard to stay togheter

Adding in: one of the problems was that the average pug quality (which was very good, most ppl used to T1-T2 wvw, good knowledge of builds/profs/maps, following on ts public commanders etc) went down the cliff with influx of ppl that maybe until the day before played their best wvw on T7 (no offence to T7 or lower tier, but it’s a different wvw, i think everybody agrees).

With “bad” pugs in, guild raids and “good” pugs locked out, well, things couldn’t turn good.

especially when pugs are extremely kitten y, they wanna do what they want to, and if a commander fails you see a huge torrent of hate flowing on the poor commanders.
That’s also what different language means, you tend to care much less for others, respect ends below your feet, while it would never happen speaking the same language. And i know alot of people this way.

Lelith.2916:

VS.. Troma.. I seriously ask that you look at your play style. Ask yourself this, Do you really have to fight the way you do?

VS.. Troma.. I seriously ask that you look at your play style. Ask yourself this, Do you really have to fight the way you do?

Nah, but seriously ? Do you believe there is a VS playstyle ? Where were you, X weeks ago when SFR was roflstomping VS ?
If you seriously think that we do something on VS that is not done on any other server, it’s time for some fresh air.
We play WvW, we seem to win sometimes, get over it.

Nightingale.8364:

…

I won’t argue about things I have no idea of. The numbers I gave are facts.
Obviously, nobody can’t know whether the dudes never talking that are playing in the main group of the map are speaking French.
Of course, we have a fraction of people not coming to the TS so you might be right.
But the following statement look reasonable :
– they were not here when we had hard times against Deso/SFR. (As you said, they want number 1)
– they will go out of VS when VS will (I hope it will) have hard times again
So we shouldn’t really bother. At times like this, nobody needs organization, but it’s needed in challenging matchup. When the challenging matchup are here, I bet the composition of the server is French speaking, close to those 99%
Or maybe not and I am wrong.

For the responsibility over the whole EU game, that’s a tough one. There’s nobody to do this. That’s the duty of Anet.
Even Troma is only a representative of GC. GC is not all VS, far from that. What if I told you many people think GC is useless on VS ? We have learnt to live with it. Troma doesn’t make decisions like some server-boss : he does RP posts & tries to solve dramas between people. That’s it, and that’s why VS is rather a successful experiment.
Even if the whole GC made a decision to do something or something else, hell, it’s still only GC.
The only one time there was a trial of a server wide decision (alliance with AR against RUIN-desolation), it was an awful horrible gigantic drama. Didn’t work.
Vizunah is a pug server. The change must come from Anet. Sorry guys.

I do agree however it would be nice to have something done, but I just think we can hardly do a thing.

To answer Lelith : who could say to VS people : hey, please do not log on 3W, there’s not enough people on borderlands so we agreed to limit entry to 20 people to make it challenging & balanced.
It doesn’t even read good. I mean, I want a balanced game, but before that I want a game.
I still log on to TF2, cause I love the game, even if I feel a god now, facing very few challenging opponents, the quality having drop so low, even if I was at best a medium player.
I don’t see a constructive workaround here…
Now, here is my hope : that I am wrong.

Air.3154:

It’s a shame it ended how it is now.

I do agree. Definitely.

Unfortunately (or thankfully), there’s nobody ever having the whole picture.

Leorcyn.1063:

Lelith.2916:

VS.. Troma.. I seriously ask that you look at your play style. Ask yourself this, Do you really have to fight the way you do?

VS.. Troma.. I seriously ask that you look at your play style. Ask yourself this, Do you really have to fight the way you do?

Nah, but seriously ? Do you believe there is a VS playstyle ? Where were you, X weeks ago when SFR was roflstomping VS ?
If you seriously think that we do something on VS that is not done on any other server, it’s time for some fresh air.
We play WvW, we seem to win sometimes, get over it.

Well lets all just carry on as we are then shall we?? We can carry on this you did it first so we reacted theme all day long, the fact remains it is DESTROYING this game. Someone has to man up and be the first to say.. ok.. enough with blobbing, we’ll work in smaller groups, there is no need to go round in one big ball capping everything in sight and steamrolling other groups you come across. It ruins everyone’s fun and FUN is why we play a GAME.

On Deso, we have to go in small groups, for various reasons, occasionally we have enough people to form what i guess could be called a reasonable zerg, but those are happening less often. We are actively trying to get small guild into wvw in order that they can do guild focused raids instead of just having to form up with other groups. We are happy to take the first step in this, we want an enjoyable game, but if others don’t try and follow this route then literally no one will ever wnat to be in T1 as it will be a death sentence for their server.

The problem with small groups is that you’re fairly slow at conquering stuff and considering how vizunah’s zerg is reactive, you will find yourself crushed in no time most of the time x_X

Exactly.... so VS have to also work with the idea of trying it.. I understand your TS is down at the moment so pugs are following so close to commanders, well how about.. run without a commander tag up.. we have been doing that for months..

Lelith.2916:

Someone has to man up and be the first to say.. ok.. enough with blobbing,

Hey, no argument here.
Except the "someone’ has to be Anet.
Short story of today : we’re speaking about exactly that on French forums. Ange posts here, saying that. All the hate on the world comes down, because someone from VS DARES to propose that.
Obviously, there can’t be any discussion here, those threads are just forum trolls bashing their heads agasint the same walls for 8 months.

Now even if there was to be a constructive discussion between lets say, some representative of Deso, SFR and VS (Troma for example). Troma represents only those who want to be represented by Troma on VS. Many guilds and PUGs do not care a single second about the words of the Gladiator.
We could try all we want, if people want to agglutinate around a commander tag, they will (and it is not only on VS).

When a coordinated team of 15 will be able to crush a mindless blob of 80, zerging will reduce. Kind of what’s happening since the last patch, except I’m not sure the direction Anet is taking with the arrow carts is the good one ! I’m all for this ability to 15v80 being player dependant, not siege dependant.

And no, running with no commander tag isn’t an option for me : it just destroys the community VS built.

Lelith.2916:

Exactly…. so VS have to also work with the idea of trying it.. I understand your TS is down at the moment so pugs are following so close to commanders, well how about.. run without a commander tag up.. we have been doing that for months..

Small correction here : the new TS is up and running again
(Was a long story and the TS FM guild has lent to the community for months didn’t survive the attacks. The one GHO & Len Ny have lent is much more resilient to that kind of bad behavior.)
But “amazingly few” people use it. I guess there is a need of a pressure to feel obligated to go there.
Right now, since the matchup is won since day 1, I fear people log to get as much WXP as they can and that’s pretty much it (and here the design is to blame : the fact the WXP of a kill is given to everybody, well…)
When I log, it’s during primetime and I hope for balanced fights, scissors-movement and stuff like this with my 15-25 warband. But it’s hard to get.

Anyway I agree we should do something to try and get a pleasant game for everybody. Small warbands was the natural format of VS at the very beginning (for various reasons) but it was a bad format to face what the opponents we had. So I guess there should be a way to come back to this.

But everybody has to bear the fact it will take quite some time. Especially since it’s easy to call your mates when your are losing a 20vs25 (and it becomes a 40vs25 then a 40vs60, etc… You see what I mean).

So we can all try to do this, but it’s a long way. Long long way.

if you want to compete against Viz then you need to fill up the oppenent servers with W3 players… if you can not cope with this you could only ask to set the points so that you play in future in lower brackets… BUT: this means just, that Elona, Jade or maybe Kodash will become new opponent of Vizunah…and there it starts again.

Maybe we should start living with the fact that there will be a No 1 for a long time and this remains most likely Vizunah and other oppenents can either try to fight against them or immediately give up…

Funny is that you collect points even if you don’t want to and rather want to drop a tier… :P

So I can’t see really a solution – except you would change the ladder system to a weekly rotation ignoring the accumulated points and just taking into account the weekly achievements…. THIS would fresh up the rotations in all tiers and at least Vizunah has every week different opponents (the winner of T2)…

But there is a chance that then in T2 all servers start to try loosing points that much so that they do not get No1 of T2

Uhhhh how exciting

Viz going to take the blame for the death of EU T1 yet?

Zepolak.2095:

Lelith.2916:

Exactly…. so VS have to also work with the idea of trying it.. I understand your TS is down at the moment so pugs are following so close to commanders, well how about.. run without a commander tag up.. we have been doing that for months..

Small correction here : the new TS is up and running again
(Was a long story and the TS FM guild has lent to the community for months didn’t survive the attacks. The one GHO & Len Ny have lent is much more resilient to that kind of bad behavior.)
But “amazingly few” people use it. I guess there is a need of a pressure to feel obligated to go there.
Right now, since the matchup is won since day 1, I fear people log to get as much WXP as they can and that’s pretty much it (and here the design is to blame : the fact the WXP of a kill is given to everybody, well…)
When I log, it’s during primetime and I hope for balanced fights, scissors-movement and stuff like this with my 15-25 warband. But it’s hard to get.

Anyway I agree we should do something to try and get a pleasant game for everybody. Small warbands was the natural format of VS at the very beginning (for various reasons) but it was a bad format to face what the opponents we had. So I guess there should be a way to come back to this.

But everybody has to bear the fact it will take quite some time. Especially since it’s easy to call your mates when your are losing a 20vs25 (and it becomes a 40vs25 then a 40vs60, etc… You see what I mean).

So we can all try to do this, but it’s a long way. Long long way.

even with small organizzed groupping then the server with the best coverage would still kitten the others, in your case, viz would win again by attrition.
Skirmishes are fun, but not when you fight for nothing. Capturing stuff and then coming back the morning to find all captured by viz, it’s just demolishing people morale. ._."

Repuran.1859:

Viz going to take the blame for the death of EU T1 yet?

…or are the opponents to take the blame of not being strong enough, maybe?

God knows…. best would be to find a solution, not to blame, no?

Lara Croft.5807:

Repuran.1859:

Viz going to take the blame for the death of EU T1 yet?

…or are the opponents to take the blame of not being strong enough, maybe?

God knows…. best would be to find a solution, not to blame, no?

Not at all, in peak times weekends/6-9pm Vizu are usually behind Deso or SFR but then you come back in the morning and Vizu have almost every tower/keep it’s a EU server so why do you have nightcappers which outnumber SFR and Deso night time players combined…

Vizu also create lag in almost every battle they enter these days its just pathetic.

Repuran.1859:

Lara Croft.5807:

Repuran.1859:

Viz going to take the blame for the death of EU T1 yet?

…or are the opponents to take the blame of not being strong enough, maybe?

God knows…. best would be to find a solution, not to blame, no?

Not at all, in peak times weekends/6-9pm Vizu are usually behind Deso or SFR but then you come back in the morning and Vizu have almost every tower/keep it’s a EU server so why do you have nightcappers which outnumber SFR and Deso night time players combined…

Vizu also create lag in almost every battle they enter these days its just pathetic.

Well let me be more precise then… why do opponents not have recruited enough nightshifts to defend/attack Vizunah better?

Air.3154:

even with small organizzed groupping then the server with the best coverage would still kitten the others, in your case, viz would win again by attrition.
Skirmishes are fun, but not when you fight for nothing. Capturing stuff and then coming back the morning to find all captured by viz, it’s just demolishing people morale. ._."

I agree, but I also look at things in this way…
1. I can only do so much with the time I have available, I look at the sitution when I log on, I look at the sitution when I log off, as long as the situation as improved then I consider that a victory for me and my group. In this way, it doesn;t matter so much about what happens when you don;t play, because when you did, you if effect ‘won’.

2. Losing stuff overnight is never a good thing, unfortunately it is just whats happens, but look at it from a different point of view.. It gives me more chance of ‘winning’ the next time I log in.

People should try and play to win during the time they have available, and not worry so much about the times they can’t be on.

Lara Croft.5807:

Repuran.1859:

Lara Croft.5807:

Repuran.1859:

Viz going to take the blame for the death of EU T1 yet?

...or are the opponents to take the blame of not being strong enough, maybe?

God knows.... best would be to find a solution, not to blame, no?

Not at all, in peak times weekends/6-9pm Vizu are usually behind Deso or SFR but then you come back in the morning and Vizu have almost every tower/keep it’s a EU server so why do you have nightcappers which outnumber SFR and Deso night time players combined...

Vizu also create lag in almost every battle they enter these days its just pathetic.

Well let me be more precise then... why do opponents not have recruited enough nightshifts to defend/attack Vizunah better?

We have to be up for work, family etc.. and no.. that is not meaning VS players don’t have these concerns... But more importantly, Deso plays to have fun, no one wants to stay on at night. Personally i have been doing 6pm-3-5am shifts for the last few months, and it just takes it out of people.. This leaves the only option left which is try and bring NA guilds onto the server to have some presence at night, and everytime that has happened we get the usual VS moaning about it. Now with the current state of T1 no guild.. NOT A SINGLE ONE ANYWHERE, will come to T1. VS is a product of it’s own success. By being so unwilling to compromise, so unwilling to even listen to the other 26 servers in this region, you have turned yourselves into server that is undoubtedly the best at winning, but what has it got you.. a tier that no one wants to even play in, and although I would never accuse you of destroying this game singlehandedly, you certainly have not helped it in any way, shape, or form.