We feel quite strongly about GW2 after so many games have failed over the past few years in terms of giving players like ourselves something to actually sink our teeth into. Now that the real action seems to be getting dumbed down and actual fighting is taking place between objects as opposed to players we are going to make sure our voice is heard and that our objections understood.
I actually really liked your idea of open KotH points… though I disagreed somewhat with your ideas for decreasing door health etc (felt that it would go the other way and encourage constant zerg karma trains for keeps as well as for camps!).
Would totally support your KotH proposals however
As for traps… I see where you’re coming from, but think we need to experience them – and give it time to settle so we can come up with counters – before we decide they have no place in WvW. I really like the increased tactical potential that the idea has, and I doubt that they’ll in any way replace fights or remove the need for fights.
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
Well, that’s one solution for the solo thief contesting keeps by himself. I kind of like it and think seeing how they could play out would be entertaining.
As for traps… I see where you’re coming from, but think we need to experience them – and give it time to settle so we can come up with counters – before we decide they have no place in WvW. I really like the increased tactical potential that the idea has, and I doubt that they’ll in any way replace fights or remove the need for fights.
Replace what fights? Most of the fights are gone already. I don’t see how anything they add that allows players to battle eachother besides the things implemented already, could help. It’s hard enough already getting players to fight you. We need people to start relying on their weapon skills and utilities not some extra gimmicks or some overpowered siege engines.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
But the zerg will most likely have more traps than your small group so its not like this will adversely effect a zerg, especially since a small group will have less supply so have more to lose if they hit a trap as opposed to a zerg running into a trap and losing 1/10th of their supply…
Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea as it is, very fun and interesting but “traps” are defensive, and in World vs World being the defender you already have an advantage. It can be incredibly hard to take Stone mist when the defending team is set up in the lords room, adding traps would only make it more unbalanced. (I assume?)
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
But the zerg will most likely have more traps than your small group so its not like this will adversely effect a zerg, especially since a small group will have less supply so have more to lose if they hit a trap as opposed to a zerg running into a trap and losing 1/10th of their supply…
Zergs are much slower in acquiring supplies. Especially since RI works correctly. Smaller groups instead of one zerg can collect much more supplies in the same time. So they have much more traps they can build. Zergs will therefore much more suffer.
Replace what fights? Most of the fights are gone already. I don’t see how anything they add that allows players to battle eachother besides the things implemented already, could help. It’s hard enough already getting players to fight you. We need people to start relying on their weapon skills and utilities not some extra gimmicks or some overpowered siege engines.
I get where you’re coming from.
For me, I have no problem finding good, exciting fights – plenty of weapon skills/utilities, and the occasional mixing in of some appropriate siege. I anticipate traps adding to that mix and providing more entertainment.
But I run in a group of anywhere between 5 and 20 people. I suspect that for larger groups good fights simply don’t exist – in the higher tiers it’s killed by skill lag/blob gravity, in the lower tiers there’s just no opposition.
This is in no way a criticism of any kind, just given that your complaints (which I’m sure are valid, I don’t mean ‘complaints’ in a mocking way there) don’t line up with my experience I can only assume it’s to do with the different things we ourselves do in WvW. If it is indeed true then I’m very sympathetic to your situation and I hope anet are doing things (reduce skill lag, add GvG, whatever else) that will improve it.
On that note I believe they’ve said that their culling guys are working on skill lag as the next priority so there is still hope!
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
But the zerg will most likely have more traps than your small group so its not like this will adversely effect a zerg, especially since a small group will have less supply so have more to lose if they hit a trap as opposed to a zerg running into a trap and losing 1/10th of their supply…
Zergs are much slower in acquiring supplies. Especially since RI works correctly. Smaller groups can collect much more supplies in the same time. So they have much more traps they can build. Zergs will therefore much more suffer.
What makes you think traps will require supply? As for your zerg being slow to take supplies, thats not actually true when you consider the time it takes to get the npc’s down a zerg does it faster and with the 4min RI buff its almost impossible for a zerg to not be within range of a supply camp that is about to get unbuffed and flip it faster than a 5 man, both the small group and zerg will collect the same amount of supplies if they have 10 people in the small group and 100 in the large group. I fail to see your point.
Replace what fights? Most of the fights are gone already. I don’t see how anything they add that allows players to battle eachother besides the things implemented already, could help. It’s hard enough already getting players to fight you. We need people to start relying on their weapon skills and utilities not some extra gimmicks or some overpowered siege engines.
I get where you’re coming from.
For me, I have no problem finding good, exciting fights – plenty of weapon skills/utilities, and the occasional mixing in of some appropriate siege. I anticipate traps adding to that mix and providing more entertainment.
But I run in a group of anywhere between 5 and 20 people. I suspect that for larger groups good fights simply don’t exist – in the higher tiers it’s killed by skill lag/blob gravity, in the lower tiers there’s just no opposition.
This is in no way a criticism of any kind, just given that your complaints (which I’m sure are valid, I don’t mean ‘complaints’ in a mocking way there) don’t line up with my experience I can only assume it’s to do with the different things we ourselves do in WvW. If it is indeed true then I’m very sympathetic to your situation and I hope anet are doing things (reduce skill lag, add GvG, whatever else) that will improve it.
On that note I believe they’ve said that their culling guys are working on skill lag as the next priority so there is still hope!
Smart people, with actual posts that make sense, they still exist.
Thank you.
[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper
Every new feature we see…. “It will help us kill zergs”. Changes are that you are zerging yourself, second of all, zergs are a part of the game, you either man up and become able to beat them, or you will die from them. Nice and simple. Learn to take on twice your numbers or organize people yourselves. the zerg problem is not going to be gone anytime soon, with a lot of the server now only having one commander across 4 maps, there will be zergs + all the additions they are making are benefitting the zergs as well. I’m dumbfounded.
At least zergs gets the job done, unlike those five man groups that apparently want the ability to kill the world, but instead stand inside a keep and become happy because they got 10 lootbags, well gz.
As for traps… I see where you’re coming from, but think we need to experience them – and give it time to settle so we can come up with counters – before we decide they have no place in WvW. I really like the increased tactical potential that the idea has, and I doubt that they’ll in any way replace fights or remove the need for fights.
Replace what fights? Most of the fights are gone already. I don’t see how anything they add that allows players to battle eachother besides the things implemented already, could help. It’s hard enough already getting players to fight you. We need people to start relying on their weapon skills and utilities not some extra gimmicks or some overpowered siege engines.
Thank you, could not of said it better myself. The past week has been a lot of door tickling and a little fighting.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
Smart people, with actual posts that make sense, they still exist.
Thank you.
… can you rephrase that in the form of a meme? Preferably one that insults me, my guild, my server, my family, and everything I’ve ever known and loved?
I CAN’T HANDLE ALL THIS CIVILITY!
Seriously though, pleasure talking to you and I hope we can resume the discussion once traps are in game and we’ve had a chance to play with them. Also hopefully there’ll be a roadmap for fixes to your situation by then.
@VotF are you guys sure the new update is the reason you are finding less fights now or the fact that your server has become horrible out of place in its tier with the numbers you can field. I don’t remember actually coming out on top of a fight with you guys so I went and fought guilds like VcY and XxX who I knew we would get a much more balanced fight from.
I for one am enjoying the new patch greatly and these traps look like a good innovative initiative. Anything that makes stealth manageable without completely nerfing it (that’s what makes thief fun not the mindless numbers you can get) is a good idea for me. Good work Anet is what I say – it’s nice to change the meta every once and a while.
This won’t stop zergs, it will encourage them even more. Say a full supplied small raid of 20 hits a trap, lets say a trap effects10 people, thats 50% of that small raids offensive power lost and only 100 supply left. For the zerg of 50, lets say only 40 have supply, zerg hits a trap, 25% of the offensive power is lost but the zerg still has 300 supply and can still build enough siege to take a tower or keep.
So for people to actually be sure to have enough supply in with them to actually attack anything they are going to need to have the numbers. Smaller raids will find themselves starved of supply, constantly having to flip camps and dodge invisible traps even before they can think about attacking something. The bigger the zerg the more supply they will have and the effects of these traps will be alot less significant.
If these traps are supposed to reduce the zergs then it simply wont work.
Look, if you want open field fights, it sounds like the new JP map will be the place to do so. I wonder if “controlling” the JP map will award any points per tick.
It’s a shame to see these ‘No Stealth’ mechanics being relegated to traps and arrowcarts.
To me we need more of a class mechanic to provide a ‘hard counter’; like giving Engineers and Rangers an ability that lets them see stealthed opponents. Engineers could have a technological devive (X-Ray goggles?) where Rangers would have their keen senses and pets to track opponents.
Valiant Aislinn – Aveneo Lightbringer – Shalene Amuriel – Dread Cathulu
Fojja – Vyxxi – Nymmra – Mymmra – Champion of Dwayna .. and more
Highly Over Powered Explorers [HOPE] – Desolation EU
These new changes sound neat. Now if only ArenaNet could do something about those orbs of power and their guards. They should serve some purpose on the map.
I think the traps are there more to counter veiling of zergs than to counter invidual thieves…
Nope. You’re telling me someone is going to run out in front of their zerg to drop a trap on a group that just veiled? Wow great, you just revealed them .00005 seconds earlier.
Unless this is something that is “built” around the keep(as an upgrade), then it’s going to be only used for combating thieves. There is ZERO point to use it in an anti-veil mechanic. You already saw them. You saw them veil. It doesn’t take much IQ to figure out what’s going to happen soon.
As for the traps that remove supply: that’s less of an issue, but still a stupid decision. It will only further encourage zerg behavior, especially depending on the “cap” for the supply removal. If it’s ~10 per trap, you’d have to be an idiot to run in a havoc squad or try to ninja keeps, as you would basically lose all your supply if you ran over it. Whereas if you were in a zerg, 10 people losing supply isn’t as big of an impact.
I actually like the Idea behind traps.
a) give traps the same range a AC can shoot at
b) make traps activate if enough people stand/walk over them (about 50+ seems right)
c) instantly kill everything in the aoe of the trap
Costs 10 supply to build, not usable within keeps/towers/supply camps.
But knowing Anet it will be poorly designed (poorly designed = everything that doesnt instantly kill a blob :P) and just added to the game. Instead of rebalance most of WvW for a change like that, Anet will add just another gimmicky thing to WvW. Something it really doesnt need right now.
I dont get all people complaining about wvw changes and new features telling “bwah it makes it slower, it takes a way skill etc.”
WvW is a strategy game primarily, not just roaming with zerg and knocking first game on the way – new options add new nuances and new tactics, thus adding more depth to gameplay.
Traps, new siege weapons, better defensive/more interesting offencive ways, underwater combat objectives, barricades, ships, buildable tunnels, siege towers, catapults launching players – more options and better tactical possibilities is always better as long as implemented correctly (i.e. in case of traps there should be some possibility of countermeasure like say detonating them with AoE on the spot).
I think traps are an interesting addition to WvW means more for smaller camp raid groups and title them to saboteurs rather than just camp flippers. Take camp, lay out a few traps in enemies zerg path, lul at hill top as they just reflipped camp and just lost supply. Stealth scouts will have more a use than just following enemy zerg around and give them an option to do more than die and refind zerg.
Heck if you are losing in WvW at least have fun by messing around with the winning server. For defending towers and keeps lay traps by walls and gates.
Things like these adds more intelligent decisions to single players and 5 man groups rather than running around with a giant ego to prove another servers grouped ego is the weaker ego on the map. And by Ego I mean Zerg.
Tarnished Coast – Got mah Toast on. :V
Tizzle Mindwrack – Crazy Asura Lore Keeper of [AARM]
It seems we inadvertently outed (some of) our plans for WvW with the above linked page. While we are looking to extend World XP changes for WvW in a later content patch, it still needs some tweaking and therefore isn’t ready to be introduced in this one.
We can however officially let you know we are moving the jumping puzzle for EB into it’s own map, as this has been a much requested feature for our beloved siege fairing community.
Apologies for the hicup
Why not fix the main problems first? instead of introducing all kind of new things which probaly has negative and positive sides?
Why Arena Net not listens to guilds and other good proposals from players who play like everyday and love to see other main problems fixed in WvW?
Why Arena Net Developers not try to play a few days in the borders with this guilds? to help improve the game on allot of points? Skillwise, Siegewise, Guildwise etc?
They also should play in Europe for example with RG, SiN, Scnd, HoB, VII, GH, VotF and more guilds like that (sorry if i forgot anyone no offence).
The ones I see play in SEAS and NA prime, hard for them to play on EU brackets when they are asleep during that time. :p But instead they can play with our (JQ, SoR, and BG) neat guilds.
EU Prime happens during the middle of the US workday. Seems like a fairly ideal time of day for them to get constructive playtime.
Well yes thats what i thought!
Its their worktime so probaly ideally too see where the problems are
I think the trap to remove supply could add some interesting game play. Traps that affect all players equally can be workable, but traps that target specific class abilities are kind of a slippery slope.
Here are some more examples of traps that would just make people feel bad about playing their chosen class.
— Cone of Silence: This trap prevents enemies from using Shouts in the target area.
— Reality Bubble: This trap dispels all enemy Illusions and transformations in the target area.
— Green Cleaner: This trap prevents all hostile ground effects in the target area.
— Broken Stopwatch: This trap prevents all enemy teleports in the target area.
— Bear Trap: This trap prevents all enemy pets and summons from entering the target area.
— Static Field: This trap prevents all enemy weapon/bundle/attunement swapping
— Pain Reflector: This trap reflects all self inflicted damage back to the enemy.
— Tranquilizer Bomb: This trap prevents all secondary power gain such as Adrenaline and Life Force.
— Discombobulater: This trap explodes all hostile summoned objects damaging the enemy.
I like that, they definitely should add traps, that say “Suckeeer!” and both enemy servers lose 1000 points if you someone steps in them. 100 gems in the gemstore only.
/sarcasm
Now seriously, I hope they are balanced, but I have sooo little faith left in the Anet balancing team, that… I like the JP change though.
- Balancing bomb : Anet developers see reason and finally start fixing the allready broken stuff rather than inventing new stuff to break it even more.
Oh no, we are getting treb, we only have 20 man and they have 50 and just waiting for the wall to be down before charging in. Come thiefs, lets stealth behind them and get those trebs. Refuge and jumps down but before you come to within range of the treb you get unstealth by the traps and trampled, because they had 50 people and each person only had to get 1 trap and they can cover a huge area, no matter how small the trap effect is.
This new addition will help those with big numbers, period. You have less people, you can just sit and wait to die
It seems we inadvertently outed (some of) our plans for WvW with the above linked page. While we are looking to extend World XP changes for WvW in a later content patch, it still needs some tweaking and therefore isn’t ready to be introduced in this one.
We can however officially let you know we are moving the jumping puzzle for EB into it’s own map, as this has been a much requested feature for our beloved siege fairing community.
Apologies for the hicup
Just the fact that you guys at Anet are even considering this sort of thing, shows how out of touch you really are with the WvW community. Instead of adding crap that no one asked for, or will improve the experience, hire someone that can listen to the community, and come up with stuff/fixes that will make WvW better.
I really can’t wait for TESO and Camelot Unleashed. Sadly, CU is a long, long way away. Hopefully, those at TESO will come up with something that’s fun, and has long term enjoyment.
Im curious what resource these traps will cost. Supply? As if we needed more reason to burn through that stuff, and it just snowballs winning servers who have more stuff to use supply on against the losing servers.
Badges? Obviously.
Coin? I sure hope not. As if there arent to many moneysinks in WvW as it is, especially relative to how little gold you actually earn.
As for the Thieves going banana’s over this. This is obviously to deal with Zergs/Groups going invisible. If anything this trap is designed to counter Veil, a mesmer mechanic. Because guess what, you arent the only one with Stealth.
Besides i doubt these traps will be instantly placed and armed. If you are fighting someone and he takes the time just to place a trap to knock you out of stealth once, im sure he will take more damage in the time he spend placing a trap then he prevented.
Does ANET not have an economist at all? Where the hell is John Smith on this? Basic economics is clearly being ignored. ANET seems like they want the zerg and then they don’t want the zerg. There’s a saying “plan ahead or plan to fail” and ANET is continuing to fail in WvW.
Let me help you out ANET:
AoE Nerf (+ zerg)
Arrow Carts (- – zerg) annihilates all groups
WXP (+ + zerg)
Traps (+ zerg) – small groups are going to get robbed of their supply before they can ever take anything.
Reward (+ zerg)
Make up your darn mind. Do you want zergs or not (guess they do)? You don’t need to keep adding junk.
We want rewards for escorting yaks prioritized. We want another map possibly, we want a reason to sit at a tower and defend it instead of being there for hours bored out of our mind (construction mini game?). We want Ascended items for WvW. We do not want to do this crappy thing called PvE in this game. Other games do it much better.
Quit trying to dictate how players play and start listening to them, otherwise more of your players will leave.
Oh yes, that sounds absolutely fun. Gather a group of players to attack a tower. Supply up. Step on a trap. Everyone has to run back to the supply camp. Repeat ad infinitum while a Dev posts that traps are just a first step and over the next few months there will be a patch to include metal detectors that can spot a trap while you slowly walk around.
I don’t see why anyone would waste placing an anti stealth trap in an open field. Seems kinda silly.
It seems like its designed to be placed defensively so you can use it to discover a Mesmer about to get through the chokepoint your defending and open a portal.
Its not going to be “i’m fighting a thief let me pause fighting him so I can build this anti-stealth trap- te he he he”.
Oh yes, that sounds absolutely fun. Gather a group of players to attack a tower. Supply up. Step on a trap. Everyone has to run back to the supply camp. Repeat ad infinitum while a Dev posts that traps are just a first step and over the next few months there will be a patch to include metal detectors that can spot a trap while you slowly walk around.
They have already tested this mechanic in guild rush where you can reveal traps. So it is quite possible =p
Oh yes, that sounds absolutely fun. Gather a group of players to attack a tower. Supply up. Step on a trap. Everyone has to run back to the supply camp. Repeat ad infinitum while a Dev posts that traps are just a first step and over the next few months there will be a patch to include metal detectors that can spot a trap while you slowly walk around.
Also Engis will get nerfed.
Theres simple solution – dont step on a trap. I am sure its not as simple as planting 100 invisible traps that remain there for half a day and activate when you pass 50m from them. There probably is some counter mechanic.
Complaining about traps before they are even implemented, is like complaining about supply camp Guards since “they`ll stop solo players and groups from capping them! You encourage zergs, arena!”
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
But the zerg will most likely have more traps than your small group so its not like this will adversely effect a zerg, especially since a small group will have less supply so have more to lose if they hit a trap as opposed to a zerg running into a trap and losing 1/10th of their supply…
Zergs are much slower in acquiring supplies. Especially since RI works correctly. Smaller groups instead of one zerg can collect much more supplies in the same time. So they have much more traps they can build. Zergs will therefore much more suffer.
I like traps. It gives small groups a new tool to starve out supply hungry zergs. Before you could only start upgrade before the zerg reached the camp. Now you can put traps on bottlenecks and rip off the the residual supplies. Zergs have now to find and circumvent the traps. It will slow down the Blitzkrieg meta even more.
But the zerg will most likely have more traps than your small group so its not like this will adversely effect a zerg, especially since a small group will have less supply so have more to lose if they hit a trap as opposed to a zerg running into a trap and losing 1/10th of their supply…
Zergs are much slower in acquiring supplies. Especially since RI works correctly. Smaller groups instead of one zerg can collect much more supplies in the same time. So they have much more traps they can build. Zergs will therefore much more suffer.
Working as intended.
Maybe? What if the trap only affects five people? What if you’re running havok with five people? What if you hit a trap and all 50 of your supply is just gone?
What if a zerg with 400 supply hits this and loses 50?
It seems we inadvertently outed (some of) our plans for WvW with the above linked page. While we are looking to extend World XP changes for WvW in a later content patch, it still needs some tweaking and therefore isn’t ready to be introduced in this one.
We can however officially let you know we are moving the jumping puzzle for EB into it’s own map, as this has been a much requested feature for our beloved siege fairing community.
Apologies for the hicup
Just the fact that you guys at Anet are even considering this sort of thing, shows how out of touch you really are with the WvW community. Instead of adding crap that no one asked for, or will improve the experience, hire someone that can listen to the community, and come up with stuff/fixes that will make WvW better.
I really can’t wait for TESO and Camelot Unleashed. Sadly, CU is a long, long way away. Hopefully, those at TESO will come up with something that’s fun, and has long term enjoyment.
Gimme a break. There is no one community. Look around these forums.
For every person who suggests something, someone else hates it.
For every complaint, there’s someone who comments that they disagree and like that aspect.
They do play the game. They do listen to the community except the community has multiple personalities.
