Guild Wars 2

Hello! I am on the BlackGate (Beastgate) Server, currently tier 1 in North America, and I have become a huge fan of small-team roaming. A few weeks back in our Borderlands, a commander, the only one at that time, was leading a fairly large zerg. He was attempting to take the SoR controlled garrison, while JQ controlled both towers on either side. He would lead the zerg along the cliff, running right past the JQ towers, then would get surrounded by both armies, and all the people in his zerg slaughtered. I would repeatedly try to tell him that I could see from my vantage point that JQ was stacking and preparing to follow and trap him, but he would never listen. It was at this point that I truly knew that, no matter if I it was the only way to “do” tier 1 WvW, I was not going to follow a commander I did not know and trust.

Since then, I have been roaming and trying to contribute in any small-goals as possible. The other day, a team of mine was able to take a non-reinforced keep while the enemy was distracted. We were all so happy, and we immediately started to do whatever we could to make it better. We took surrounding camps, escorted dolyaks, reinforced the walls, built defenses, until after about an hour of work we had safely secured the keep enough to begin trebbing an enemy fort. I put down the treb, and we put all our supply into it, then ran got some more.

We were on our way back to the keep, when an enemy zerg spotted us. We got inside and started to fire our arrow carts on the enemy, but it wasn’t enough. I subbed in for my friends on the arrow carts as they each went to finish the treb, in an attempt to at least hold back the zerg. The enemy now had surrounded us, and we had to retreat off the arrow carts on the walls just to survive. The gates were falling fast. I begged for support from one of our zergs but they were too far.

The gates fell, and the enemies swarmed in. We all ran or died, and the treb fell: 98 percent completed

I was so sad, and frustrated. How was it fair that an enemy zerg could just destroy everything I had worked on for the past hour and a half? I wouldn’t have minded if our enemy had made a ballista and shot down the treb from a distance, because they would have planned and at least done something for it. I have run in so many zergs to know that all anybody in their zerg cared about was that they tagged me, and got in the circle on time.

So at what tier does my group begin to matter? When does WvW not become like a huge open plain, where towers are like sand castles and all that really matters is how many people you have?

Thank you for reading, and I would love to see your answers and responces.

tl;dr: In tier 1, the long term efforts of a small team are quickly rendered pointless by a very short-term, unplanned effort of a zerg. Q: At what tier does the work of a small group begin to benefit a team for a prolonged period of time?

In any tier, the long term efforts of any size team can still be rendered pointless by any size team.

WvW in general isn’t about the individual, it is about the group.

Most likely, you didn’t have to deal with that zerg early because they were dealing with the BG zerg.

Sometimes, if a server is dead set on defending just their corner, they will break off from what they are doing to crush any hope of taking anything in the corner of the map, regardless of how small or big the group attacking is.

At some point, the servers in the lower tiers are going to be stacked because they’ll end up with so many people wanting to do small team stuff, they’ll end up with so many transfers that they’ll end up having to zerg to deal with the other servers zerg since they also got transfers looking for small team combat but when map chat says garrison 15+ so they’ll send a force large enought to deal with that, then the other server decides to attack with a larger force and we will repeat. Eventually, those that got transfers looking for a different kind of fight will end up loosing people trying to find fights that they end up transferring again.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

In any tier, the long term efforts of any size team can still be rendered pointless by a small team.

Most likely, you didn’t have to deal with that zerg early because they were dealing with the BG zerg.

Sometimes, if a server is dead set on defending just their corner, they will break off from what they are doing to crush any hope of taking anything in the corner of the map, regardless of how small or big the group attacking is.

At some point, the servers in the lower tiers are going to be stacked because they’ll end up with so many people wanting to do small team stuff, they’ll end up with so many transfers that they’ll end up having to zerg to deal with the other servers zerg since they also got transfers looking for small team combat but when map chat says garrison 15+ so they’ll send a force large enought to deal with that, then the other server decides to attack with a larger force and we will repeat.

I suppose, but there is a difference between a zerg that 5 people can defend from and one where that many people would just get destroyed. So the question remains: At what tier could five people have held off an enemy’s zerg? This could depend even on the power of arrow carts, but where do five people on arrow carts begin to cause zergs to take caution?

Welswift.9813:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

In any tier, the long term efforts of any size team can still be rendered pointless by a small team.

Most likely, you didn’t have to deal with that zerg early because they were dealing with the BG zerg.

Sometimes, if a server is dead set on defending just their corner, they will break off from what they are doing to crush any hope of taking anything in the corner of the map, regardless of how small or big the group attacking is.

At some point, the servers in the lower tiers are going to be stacked because they’ll end up with so many people wanting to do small team stuff, they’ll end up with so many transfers that they’ll end up having to zerg to deal with the other servers zerg since they also got transfers looking for small team combat but when map chat says garrison 15+ so they’ll send a force large enought to deal with that, then the other server decides to attack with a larger force and we will repeat.

I suppose, but there is a difference between a zerg that 5 people can defend from and one where that many people would just get destroyed. So the question remains: At what tier could five people have held off an enemy’s zerg? This could depend even on the power of arrow carts, but where do five people on arrow carts begin to cause zergs to take caution?

I wouldn’t get too on arrow carts at the monent, they are going to be adjusted, has been state and is in testing. Not sure what will be adjusted.

It also depends upon the opponent.

I don’t blink at arrow carts that much. My character is a tank and still doesn’t take much damage from them. If you are defending against a tanky zerg, they won’t blink as much. Once they see they can’t get your arrow carts and fail at a ram, they can then range with cats or trebs. Then you have to deal with that and it all depends upon how your small team is able to handle a large team or zerg.

The balance you’re looking for is probably found around tier 5 or 6. If you transfer, enjoy the action there, then find your server starting to climb the ladder, be prepared to transfer down again. In other words, you loyalty becomes to the tier rather than to the server.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Welswift.9813:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

In any tier, the long term efforts of any size team can still be rendered pointless by a small team.

Most likely, you didn’t have to deal with that zerg early because they were dealing with the BG zerg.

Sometimes, if a server is dead set on defending just their corner, they will break off from what they are doing to crush any hope of taking anything in the corner of the map, regardless of how small or big the group attacking is.

At some point, the servers in the lower tiers are going to be stacked because they’ll end up with so many people wanting to do small team stuff, they’ll end up with so many transfers that they’ll end up having to zerg to deal with the other servers zerg since they also got transfers looking for small team combat but when map chat says garrison 15+ so they’ll send a force large enought to deal with that, then the other server decides to attack with a larger force and we will repeat.

I suppose, but there is a difference between a zerg that 5 people can defend from and one where that many people would just get destroyed. So the question remains: At what tier could five people have held off an enemy’s zerg? This could depend even on the power of arrow carts, but where do five people on arrow carts begin to cause zergs to take caution?

I wouldn’t get too on arrow carts at the monent, they are going to be adjusted, has been state and is in testing. Not sure what will be adjusted.

It also depends upon the opponent.

I don’t blink at arrow carts that much. My character is a tank and still doesn’t take much damage from them. If you are defending against a tanky zerg, they won’t blink as much. Once they see they can’t get your arrow carts and fail at a ram, they can then range with cats or trebs. Then you have to deal with that and it all depends upon how your small team is able to handle a large team or zerg.

I am totally ok with the other team building cats or trebs to range down the gate or walls. That would be awesome, and totally fair. I just hated that they could run up and bang on our gate for about sixty seconds, drop a flame ram, then charge in like it was nothing. I want either gates to be stronger, or for there to be away to force the enemy to try a non mindless approach.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

The balance you’re looking for is probably found around tier 5 or 6. If you transfer, enjoy the action there, then find your server starting to climb the ladder, be prepared to transfer down again. In other words, you loyalty becomes to the tier rather than to the server.

Thank you! Any suggestions for an awesome server with a great attitude on tier 5 currently? I don’t want to join the “Snob” server with all the /laughers…

Welswift.9813:

I am totally ok with the other team building cats or trebs to range down the gate or walls. That would be awesome, and totally fair. I just hated that they could run up and bang on our gate for about sixty seconds, drop a flame ram, then charge in like it was nothing. I want either gates to be stronger, or for there to be away to force the enemy to try a non mindless approach.

Totally understand.

I don’t think arrow carts are the end all of siege that many on the forums claim and they will be adjusted, and probably trebs and cats will end up with some kind of wxp enhancements.

I don’t think that walls or doors have enough HP putting down enough siege to burn it down.

I’ve seen as many as 5 rams built on a gate. Then there are golem rushes.

Other tiers may get some of what you want, I think at some point they’ll end up with a zerg and people will end up leaving because the server will turn into something that they don’t want with the transfers they get unless the players knew how balanced the various servers are in population.

Also, to better hold off a zerg at the gate, build your arrow carts somewhere other than on top of the wall. The arrow cart isn’t there to wipe the zerg; that would only happen if you were lucky enough to face mindless sheep who will just stand there while pierced to death by arrow carts.

Instead, treat arrow carts as a counter-ram weapon. Build them in locations that can hit the gate(s) while remaining out of reach of the zerg. Then, build counter-catapults and counter-trebuchets. Once the zerg realizes they won’t be able to bash in the gate with a ram, they’ll do one of two things:

1) Leave to go find an easier target.

2) Build catapults or trebuchets.

You need to have a counter up and running before they arrive. From your original post, it appears you were attempting to do this; so you’re already familiar with the step-wise escalation of siege weaponry.

It appears you either were running low on supply – waiting for it to regenerate at the supply camp – or you were too few in number to run supply fast enough to get the treb built in time.

If the former, then consider map jumping to resupply at another location (for example, porting into a garrison, bay, or hills owned by your server and which has a waypoint and ample supply inside its internal depot).

If the latter, then consider capturing objectives that your smaller group has a reasonable chance of defending. I don’t recall seeing the actual size of your group mentioned in your original post. Assuming you were a party of 5, that’s probably not enough to reasonably defend a keep unless you’re able to get your defenses built up prior to the arrival of the enemy zerg.

As great as it may feel to capture a keep with a small party, you need to realistically assess your group’s strengths and weaknesses. That isn’t to say don’t capture a keep; just be willing to accept you’re not likely going to hold it for very long. If you can hang onto it through a single point tally, then consider it a job well done; your party just earned 25 points for your server. A tower, on the other hand, can be held by a party of 5 against a zerg for hours with proper defenses.

Zergs exist on any tier though the definition of zergs may differ. I will honestly say there is a zerg if there is 15+ people in a group (NA T8). I understand on other tiers, that would be considered a small group.

I agree with the sentiment others have expressed that WvW isn’t really won by dedication or skill. Coverage is more important. Your small team during non-primetime hours can make a big difference to the score on lower tiers that do not have coverage at those hours. Your small team on the same tier during primetime on reset night is probably best used for flipping camps to deny supply. That is useful for any server as it denies the enemy supply.

In my opinion, you actually accomplished a lot on behalf of your server. You took a tower and surrounding camps and held the tower for 5-6 point tallies. It does suck that you were overwhelmed by an enemy zerg. Don’t let the end result destroy what you did accomplish. If you had fun during your time, that’s all that is matter. Getting frustrated over something inevitable isn’t worth it. Every tower/keep/garrison/camp will get flipped some time by somebody else.

I don’t really have an answer for you but please take a look at this thread about consolidating small teams.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Small-man-Havoc-Crew-Tier-Consolidation/first

Hey, Glad to see someone agrees with me, I currently reside in Underworld (eu) t6. What you’ve been told about small groups may be accurate on the NA servers but in EU t6 is ridiculous.. Both other servers have such sizable blobs 24/7 that we’ve been able to do nothing, our skill and hard work defending is completly bypassed by sheer weight of numbers!! in a T6 server!!!! Anyway I’ll save my QQ for another time, just wanted to know if any other eu realms offer a better wvw environment (i don’t mind teiring up or down) but a server that is build on skill and resourcefullness in wvw as opposed to blobbing would be ideal.

I think the issue may be with the way you are looking at it. You and four friends occupied an entire enemy zerg? For how long? Good work.

If it were hills you likely would have been able to beat the enemy zerg with your 5 arrowcarts. I know I have seen several zergs getting demolished by just a handful of arrowcarts there.

If you really want to have a large individual impact, be a commander. I know that our servers best commanders make a large difference in the outcome not just of a single battle, but of the entire map they play on.

If that is a bit much, then focus on camps. You can flip camps close to the end of each tick and have a large impact on your servers PPT with just a small organized and fast group. Supply starving an enemy by starting Dolygeddon 2013 also has a large impact, though it usually isn’t seen right away.

Depending on what classes you and your friends are playing, you may also be able to tank up like beasts to hold enemy zergs at capture points as long as possible. Every minute that group sits there fighting you and your friends is a minute that your servers main force is unimpeded.

Good luck, let us know if you find the results you are looking for.

There are plenty of cases where an individual matters alot. To give an example and there are many of them, when a player stays inside the circle to delay a cap for long enough to delay the cap until reinforcements arrive. I personally do this all the time. In fact I will not leave the circle under any circumstance other than death. And it pays off on a daily basis. It seems the majority of players run in this situation, particularly if they are faced with a full on zerg. I say bring it. I survive as long as I can and waste their time. Even if faced with a 50 player zerg, if I live for 1 minute and they still flip it Ive wasted 1 minute of my time, but 50 minutes of my opponents time.

Most people measure success in WvW by the number of kills they get or the number of points they help score.

For small groups, you need to emphasis a third metric. Time.

If you can go onto an enemy borderland with five of your guys, flip supply camps, and force the enemy server to commit larger numbers to chase you down and flip camps back, that is a win.

If you can take a tower with five, and force the enemy to commit thirty people and an hour of time to take it back, that is a win as well.

But you are never going to hold what you take(nor should you) when the enemy commits 4x-10x your number in players.

Just smile, and think of all the time you’re making them waste.

How are you living for 5 seconds, never mind a minute vs a 50 player zerg.

Welswift.9813:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

The balance you’re looking for is probably found around tier 5 or 6. If you transfer, enjoy the action there, then find your server starting to climb the ladder, be prepared to transfer down again. In other words, you loyalty becomes to the tier rather than to the server.

Thank you! Any suggestions for an awesome server with a great attitude on tier 5 currently? I don’t want to join the “Snob” server with all the /laughers…

I play in the EU tiers and you mentioned you play on a NA server. I don’t have any experience with the NA servers, so I can’t give you an informed opinion. However, I live in NA. Playing on the EU servers means I’m generally playing during their off-peak hours. No queues, no skill lag, zergs – when they do appear – are smaller. Your actions as a small team or individual give the impression of counting for more.

I’m currently in tier 4 on the Aurora Glade server. Despite some recent “issues”, the server as a whole remains a friendly, polite group of players with a very balanced population splitting their time fairly evenly between PvE, dungeons, and WvWvW. However, we are climbing the ladder and facing ever-larger blobs. I definitely see some players becoming disillusioned with WvWvW as a result; so much so that one of our main WvWvW-focused guilds chose to transfer to Gunnar’s Hold (tier 8 ) yesterday.

If you do decide to try the EU servers, a few recommendations would be:

1) Avoid the country-specific servers as you may find the player base less willing to communicate in English. You can check the MOS Millenium site to find which servers have been claimed by which country.

2) Interestingly enough, the country-specific servers tend to be the ones that rely more heavily on blob tactics. So if you adhere to recommendation #1, you’ll also be avoiding the more zergy servers, as well.

3) Avoid Gunnar’s Hold as they are beginning a rapid climb up the ladder. Though at tier 8 at the moment, they will likely begin a meteoric rise through the tiers over the next few weeks as bandwagoners attempt to ride their coattails to victory. They will probably stabilize around tier 5 once the dust settles.

4) Underworld is at tier 6 and Ruins of Surmia is at tier 7; both are multi-national EU servers. Both used to be much further down the ladder. They’ve climbed a bit, learned a bit, and appear to be reaching a balance point.

4) Underworld is at tier 6 and Ruins of Surmia is at tier 7; both are multi-national EU servers. Both used to be much further down the ladder. They’ve climbed a bit, learned a bit, and appear to be reaching a balance point.

As i previously stated i would not reccomend Underworld right now. Our alliance of guilds has recently collapsed, we lost alot of our hardcore wvw-ers and we’re perpetually out manned in this tier by Drakkar and Ranik. I’m considering a hop to Ruins of surmia currently its become so bad.

Cottage Pie.6215:

How are you living for 5 seconds, never mind a minute vs a 50 player zerg.

CC, dodge, CD removal, evading, healing, gap openers, resetting, praying. If your a class like Warrior/Guardian/Ele you can last a really long time. Also some of the circles have obstacles you can use to break them up (like Rogues Quarry and Redvale).

VaaCrow.3076:

4) Underworld is at tier 6 and Ruins of Surmia is at tier 7; both are multi-national EU servers. Both used to be much further down the ladder. They’ve climbed a bit, learned a bit, and appear to be reaching a balance point.

As i previously stated i would not reccomend Underworld right now. Our alliance of guilds has recently collapsed, we lost alot of our hardcore wvw-ers and we’re perpetually out manned in this tier by Drakkar and Ranik. I’m considering a hop to Ruins of surmia currently its become so bad.

Or conversely, for someone looking for a server where their individual efforts may count for more and be appreciated, Underworld may still make for a good choice if it drops down one tier into a more balanced match.

Currently, they’re facing Fort Ranik which is well-known for blobbing and Drakkar Lake (perhaps not as egregious with their blobbing as Fort Ranik; I can’t be sure as it’s been a long time since Aurora Glade faced them).

A server which is experiencing a power vacuum as a result of recent population losses may be a good place to make a name for yourself and feel like your efforts count for something.

Ruins of Surmia and Underworld will likely be facing off against each other in the near future in what I predict will be a fairly balanced match up; so either would make a good choice for a new home server.

Currently, they’re facing Fort Ranik which is well-known for blobbing and Drakkar Lake (perhaps not as egregious with their blobbing as Fort Ranik; I can’t be sure as it’s been a long time since Aurora Glade faced them).

How is life + wvw on aurora glade? I’m considering jumping ship from uw for a while and this server has been suggested to me.

It’s awesome your five man took a tower. However, it’s unrealistic to expect to defend it against a zerg. Small groups are better at taking enemy supply camps, killing yaks and just generally distracting the enemy teams. To be honest, that’s more of a contribution than taking one tower. Supply is king.

Wow, thanks all of you. I have learned a lot, and I think I need to keep my definition of success more flexible. My dream was to be able to seige down a wall and allow our zerg to sweep in and cap a quick victory, through our long-term work. However, now I see that I accomplished a good bit in what I did along the way. I have received some awesome advice, and realized I have a lot to learn.

One more thing though. I still kinda have this dream of trebbing or catapulting down a Keep or Garison wall for our team (If very unlikely, just multiple Towers). Any advice? How would you guys go about taking down a wall with a team of 5? (Yes we have 5) Would that mean taking a tower, or are there good spots that five people could defend against a reasonable number (Not talking about defending a zerg, but being able to protect our siege against 10 or so), outside of a keep?

Thanks again for all you guys have taught me!

Every tier feels the pain of having a zerg destroying the work of individuals and small groups that takes hours and gold to create, yet seconds to destroy.

You either accept that any hard work or effort in WvW is like building a sand-castle in the way of the rising tide, or forever be frustrated. You can only shore up your defenses so much before the eventual dissolution of your work.

On T8 a good 5 man can defend a tower for sometime normal zerg size is 20-30 maybe you stop them maybe not but you will not get rolled in a minute with arrow carts up.

VaaCrow.3076:

Currently, they’re facing Fort Ranik which is well-known for blobbing and Drakkar Lake (perhaps not as egregious with their blobbing as Fort Ranik; I can’t be sure as it’s been a long time since Aurora Glade faced them).

How is life + wvw on aurora glade? I’m considering jumping ship from uw for a while and this server has been suggested to me.

I’ve been with AG since installing the game in mid-September. This was about the time we hit rock bottom at position 19/tier 7. Through a lot of hard work we steadily climbed out of that hole and the community was fantastic during that time.

Unfortunately, success comes at a price. Though we’ve worked our way up to position 10/tier 4, it went to the heads of some within the community and elitism has crept into the ranks. Our success also attracted bandwagoner guilds and players. The community has fractured a bit as a result. There remains a strong core of WvWvW-ers who’ve been there from the beginning; but the feeling of a small, close-knit community working towards a common goal has been lost.

It’s not bad by any means and those who transfer over from other servers have remarked on how friendly and welcoming the AG community is (and it genuinely is). For those of us who’ve been there from the beginning, though, it’s not quite as shiny as it once was.

That said, the AG WvWvW community is quite skilled and we’re used to fighting against overwhelming odds. I think, though, we’ve reached our plateau. We simply don’t have the numbers and coverage to compete against more zergy servers. Short of a large influx of new players to the server, I don’t see us ever making it past tier 3. Not necessarily a bad thing, as I prefer less blobby play, anyway. Just know that if your goal is to be on a server that will continue to climb and climb and climb, AG is probably not the best choice for that.

Welswift.9813:

tl;dr: In tier 1, the long term efforts of a small team are quickly rendered pointless by a very short-term, unplanned effort of a zerg. Q: At what tier does the work of a small group begin to benefit a team for a prolonged period of time?

Tier 4 and lower.

Come try out the waters in Tier 8. You may like it. Small groups matter a lot to us. I’m not gonna exaggerate and say that a single individual can make or break things, but if you are good you will find recognition.

Even in tier one you have an effect its just not all that big. I guess the best example is yaks. Even if your solo killing yaks has a point. While you score more points for the world the more people on the yak the fact is each yak you stop helps keep supplies out of the enemies hand. The good thing about this is that you do contribute.

Imho if you are going to roam as a small group just flip small targets. Even if you feel your efforts are in vein the fact is every little part helps. Every camp you force them to re flip every yak you slay and even when you take out the power nodes you are contributing. Small groups have the distinct ability of keep the enemy off balanced. Please do not ignore this. Flipping camps in the north while the zerg is in the south has an effect.

Welswift.9813:

One more thing though. I still kinda have this dream of trebbing or catapulting down a Keep or Garison wall for our team (If very unlikely, just multiple Towers). Any advice? How would you guys go about taking down a wall with a team of 5? (Yes we have 5) Would that mean taking a tower, or are there good spots that five people could defend against a reasonable number (Not talking about defending a zerg, but being able to protect our siege against 10 or so), outside of a keep?

Given the limitations you have stated (5 person team), I’d say your best bet would be to capture Longview/Sunnyhill/Woodhaven tower. Place an arrow cart on the roof of the supply depot, one at the top of the stairs on the North wall (so it sits back from the outer edge of the wall, safer from AoE), another on the South wall behind a parapet near the junction where that wall starts to angle towards the Northeast (and, again, on the inner edge of the wall), and a fourth AC on the roof near the vista facing towards the inner courtyard. These four ACs will provide you with pretty much full coverage of the perimeter of the tower.

Next place a trebuchet at the pinnacle of the supply depot roof (be sure to place the AC that is up there a bit off to the side or away from that pinnacle so the treb can be built there). This places the treb more inside the tower out of easy reach of AoE while giving it a height boost. An engi or ele may still be able to target it, but it will be more difficult to reach and you should be able to fend them off with your arrow carts.

Fire the treb at 100% power in the direction of the garrison outer wall. The boulder will fall short of the wall, but the blast radius will still cause damage. Your spotter will be telling you you’re falling short/missing; rest assured, though, you are damaging it. Always fire at walls rather than gates when given the choice; catapults and trebuchets do more damage to walls. Technically, if you can hit both at the same, do so. Another possible exception is if the wall is reinforced but the gate is not, then it might make more sense to hit the gate with a cata or treb.

With 4 arrow carts and 1 treb, that’s enough for every member of your party to be manning a piece of siege equipment. Ideally, you’d build a couple more trebs on the supply depot roof and simply switch to the arrow carts when the inevitable zerg shows up at the tower.

If you do manage to repel the zerg at the gate, be aware they may try a few things:

1) They will build catapults on the cliff East of the tower (the one they reach first from their spawn area). This isn’t the invulnerable / siege restricted zone; it’s one tier down from that. This is easily countered with your trebuchet; possibly even the arrow cart on the South wall if you have the extended range from Arrow Cart Mastery.

2) They will retreat to the bluff to the North of the tower. Since there’s a slight upslope there, they have the height advantage. Rarely do I see players taking advantage of it, though; instead, they build their catapults too close. You can easily take out their catapults with your treb if you turn it quick enough.

3) They will build a treb further back on that same Northern slope. Of course, this is what they should have done first. Most, though, will build catas first, watch them get destroyed by a counter-treb, then pull back to build a treb. If they don’t take advantage of the upslope, they may still wind up building their treb within range of your’s; smash em for it.

If they’re smart, they’ll build their treb out of reach of your treb but within reach of your wall. If this happens it’s only a matter of time before they break into the tower (assuming it remains just your 5 player party facing a larger zerg). Your last ditch defense at that point is to build a treb on the roof of the tower. The extra height advantage may allow you to hit their treb before it smashes your wall. You can also reach the garrison wall from this position using a treb. Why I didn’t suggest it in the first place is because – despite being on the roof – it’s quite vulnerable to arrow carts or AoE cast up from below.

4) They will build a treb at the garrison. Usually this is built to the far right edge just behind the wall where it ends at the cliff (as seen from the tower). This treb is like your treb; the boulder won’t reach the tower’s wall, but the blast radius will. Neither of you can destroy the other’s treb with your treb alone as they are out of reach of one another. So it becomes a race to see who can treb down the other’s wall, first.

5) They’ll build an arrow cart and/or catapult behind and at the base of the lord’s room, where the bridge crosses over to the flat platform that overlooks the supply camp below. This is easily countered with your AC on top of the tower roof near the vista.

(continued)

6) If they’re really clever, they will build a ballista at the base of the cliff below the tower. Looking West from the supply depot roof inside the tower, there’s a gap where there’s no wall; it’s simply open to the drop down the cliff.

A ballista can be positioned at the base of that cliff that can target trebuchets on the supply depot roof above. The arrow cart on top of the tower roof can reach that area IF you have purchased the extended range option in Arrow Cart Mastery (at least for now; the range will likely be nerfed in the near future).

The problem is, at that height everything below that cliff is culled because of the greater distance. You’ll have to have someone spot and direct your arrow cart volleys for you to destroy the enemy ballista built below. Alternately, you could build an arrow cart or counter-ballista right at the cliff’s edge as a pre-emptive counter.

Before anyone counters that there are better ways of accomplishing the goal of breaking through the outer wall of garrison, note that I’m making these suggestions within the context of the OP’s stated goal and limitations (treb through a wall of a keep or garrison using a 5 player party). This is what I considered to give the best chance of success within the given parameters. I readily admit, though, that it’s a slim chance to begin with should a large enough zerg show up at the gate.

Good luck and let us know how your party fares

BG now has the largest zergs in all the servers combined.

Individuals don’t matter in wvw and never have. It is all about the coverage game and who can pvdoor the hardest during their “prime”.

Trust me, there are plenty of people who know your pain OP. Very early this morning, we at Crystal Desert had put great expense and effort into fortifying all our holdings knowing that the night time was our most anemic time, when we had neither the manpower or resources to reach into other territories. Instead we entrenched.

Around four AM, an enormous SoS zerg swept across the EB and devoured everything in its path. SBI was the first to fall, and knowing they were coming was terrifying. All we could do was siege up and wait to make a stand.

Being surrounded on all sides at QL without a way to fight back was disheartening. All our siege was obliterated in mere minutes because such numbers had nothing to fear with the amount of AoE they brought to bear. The gates couldn’t be repaired despite the large amount of supply we had in storage because the knockdowns came through the gate and getting close enough to repair was more or less instant death. More of the same played out at our keep when despite our best efforts to stall the invaders, the gates came down and it all swept in like a flood. I was actually in a downed state for a good while probably because no one saw me in time to finish me off immediately. If anything, that emphasized how insignificant my presence was.

What rakes me is that we just don’t have the numbers. I am freaking sick of this matchup for the past two months. And with server transfers being so expensive, we can’t hope for any new blood except from within our community.

Individuals matter in the sense of scouting,escorting dolyaks,trebbing etc,its one of the most important things to do imo,i highly appreciate everyone scouting when i command,and its really needed to make sure you are everywhere sooner before your enemy even arrives.

Also when you have a small strike team,you can help out your zerg by staying close..grab camps close to the comm,tag some towers,tagg the keep,lure some people away from where the comm is heading etc…small things, but needed.