Guild Wars 2

i cant speak for the rest of you but when i got out into WvW each night its to have fun and kill people , the loot isn’t even on my mind, if i need money i can throw on a mf set and farm pve for a bit… but at the end of the day i wvw because i enjoy it.

Gasoline.2570:

Well that’s just stupid. Theyre punishing higher level players for killing lower level ones? If you cant handle wvw then don’t be here, why arenanet thinks this is a good idea? it just prevents from people actually getting money in wvw thus making pve more so profitable thus making people not want to play wvw because, well, it gives nothing in return.

That’s right, everyone. Receiving less of a reward than you anticipated is “punishment”. No, it’s not “less of a reward” like any sensible person would realize. It’s “punishment”.

Yep, and the only reason to do anything in GW2 is for the loot and money. There are no other motives whatsoever.

Forsaken.2167:

If your suggesting that the loot system is in no way affected by their business strategy you are sorely mistaken.

Why would I suggest that? Don’t turn this into a strawman argument, please.

My actual point was, as you said….

Forsaken.2167:

Yes you do make more money in PVE

That’s all there is to it. PvE is a much faster way to make money / gear than WvW… MUCH faster. MY question is why is WvW treated as a gold sink, instead of being at least equally rewarding as PvE?

If the answer is that PvE is a time sink you’re just wrong. I can spend hours a day in WvW, running supplies, upgrading, defending, etc. and never make anywhere near the amount of gold / loot I’d get running events in Orr. Heck I could make more farming in low level areas for that matter.

Obviously they’re going to try and limit the amount of money people get becuase of micro transactions, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine for some forms of content to make a good deal less than others.

Uberlicious.3956:

i cant speak for the rest of you but when i got out into WvW each night its to have fun and kill people , the loot isn’t even on my mind, if i need money i can throw on a mf set and farm pve for a bit… but at the end of the day i wvw because i enjoy it.

That’s great and all, but you shouldn’t have to stop doing the part of the game you enjoy, and go do something else because the enjoyable content is ripping you off. That’s just bad game design.

Forsaken.2167:

If your suggesting that the loot system is in no way affected by their business strategy you are sorely mistaken. Why do you think they toned down the gold you received doing AC runs, people were making too much money.

/chinscratch
More gold entering into the economy = inflation. Inflation = better gems->gold conversion. Better gems->gold conversion = more demand for gems*. More demand for gems = more microtransactions. More microtransactions = more profit for ANet.

I’m not against the idea that ANet has and will take steps to increase the profitability of their microtransactions model via game balance, but the examples offered up to demonstrate this often make no sense. ANet has good enough business sense to recognize that it is more profitable to make a good game players will enjoy long-term than to cannibalize it short-term by making it terrible for a quick buck. Nerfing AC runs was a demonstration of this, allowing it to continue would’ve bettered ANet’s short term profit, but removing it gave the game better longevity and was a better longterm investment. They’re absolutely a business out to make money, but good business sense usually aligns with making the game better not worse. The idea that ANet tries to “keep players down” to profit off of microtransactions doesn’t make any sense.

*This would cancel out in the case of everyone making more money, but if only some people are utilizing a superior money faucet then the relative buying power of the average person goes down, increasing relative gold demand.

Raincrow.1840:

PvE is a much faster way to make money / gear than WvW… MUCH faster.

I would put forth that since WvW action affects far more people than PvE action, there is much greater profit potential in WvW in a service sense, even if PvE is clearly superior in a goods sense. There’s a lot of potential to capitalize on services in WvW, but few have yet bothered.

i enjoy farming… and it allows me to blow 100’s of gold a month on stupid crap…

Tulisin.6945:

I would put forth that since WvW action affects far more people than PvE action, there is much greater profit potential in WvW in a service sense, even if PvE is clearly superior in a goods sense.

Are you trying to argue that more players take part in WvW than PvE? If so I wonder where you’re getting that idea.

Tulisin.6945:

There’s a lot of potential to capitalize on services in WvW, but few have yet bothered.

Explain?

Uberlicious.3956:

i enjoy farming… and it allows me to blow 100’s of gold a month on stupid crap…

See what I mean?

I don’t have a problem with somone who enjoys farming. But the fact that he can do this, while people who spend the same amount of time in WvW can’t = a broken game.

People should be encouragerd to take part in the actual game, not farm for easy gold.

Raincrow.1840:

Tulisin.6945:

I would put forth that since WvW action affects far more people than PvE action, there is much greater profit potential in WvW in a service sense, even if PvE is clearly superior in a goods sense.

Are you trying to argue that more players take part in WvW than PvE? If so I wonder where you’re getting that idea.

Tulisin.6945:

There’s a lot of potential to capitalize on services in WvW, but few have yet bothered.

Explain?

Mercenary work, mostly. That is how other games have capitalized on a pure PvP method of making large sums of money. Make guild -> get incredibly good -> have people pay you to fight. There are other services markets that could be exploited, but mercenary work is the most obvious, and very easy to implement with GW2’s current server transfer paradigm. There are a few mercenaries that exist as-is, but there’s certainly potential there for some larger players.

The “players taking part” comment is mostly due to the fact that selling dungeon-running services can necessarily only service, at most, 4~ customers at a time, whereas WvW services markets can benefit (and therefore exact fees from) hundreds or thousands of players.

Esrever.8613:

Anet doesn’t want people to be farming WvW maybe.

Or maybe organized efforts where 2 servers kill each other for drops.

And the difference between this and an organised guild vs PvE content is?

Raincrow.1840:

Why would I suggest that? Don’t turn this into a strawman argument, please.

If the answer is that PvE is a time sink you’re just wrong.

Your first reply saying my post was untrue was rather vague so yes it certainly did seem like that is what you were suggesting, maybe elaborate more next time.

When I do pve/dungeon runs it takes up my night, I don’t have time to do hours of W3 after already spending hours in dungeons, maybe you have a lot more time than I do but pve is a time sink to me. The part where which time sink makes you more money we are in agreement on.

You also missed the most important part of my original post which was this “If you were a developer trying to make money on microtransactions you have to be sure people aren’t getting filthy rich in one of the most fun/popular parts of the game like W3.”.

I think that is the real reason there is not much gold to be made in W3, it is by far the most popular aspect of the game, in my opinion anyway.

Tulisin.6945:

Forsaken.2167:

If your suggesting that the loot system is in no way affected by their business strategy you are sorely mistaken. Why do you think they toned down the gold you received doing AC runs, people were making too much money.

The idea that ANet tries to “keep players down” to profit off of microtransactions doesn’t make any sense.

I never said anything about ANET trying to keep the players down. I also never said anything about it being bad business or practice. Once again what I’m saying is their loot system is a business plan, whether you like it or not.

Forsaken.2167:

Your first reply saying my post was untrue was rather vague so yes it certainly did seem like that is what you were suggesting, maybe elaborate more next time.

Ok, that’s reasonable.

Forsaken.2167:

When I do pve/dungeon runs it takes up my night, I don’t have time to do hours of W3 after already spending hours in dungeons, maybe you have a lot more time than I do but pve is a time sink to me. The part where which time sink makes you more money we are in agreement on.

This is the part that doesn’t make any sense to me. If you consider something a “time sink” you should simply skip it. Every player should be taking part in the content they enjoy. Rewarding people who do PvE over those who do PvP isn’t how you produce an enjoyable game for PvPers, it’s how you drive them away. I don’t do dungeons, period. I spend my time doing what I enjoy instead. Assuming we play the same amount of time, why should you make tons of gold, and not me? Because you spend most of your in a dungeon??

Forsaken.2167:

You also missed the most important part of my original post which was this “If you were a developer trying to make money on microtransactions you have to be sure people aren’t getting filthy rich in one of the most fun/popular parts of the game like W3.”.

I think that is the real reason there is not much gold to be made in W3, it is by far the most popular aspect of the game, in my opinion anyway.

I didn’t miss it. It’s just not good logic.

Of course no one should get so rich that they never need to bother with the gem store at all, but the idea that the game rewards certain activities over another is not good game design. Why take something you consider to be the most fun / popular part of the game, and attempt to get players to do something else? That’s a broken game.

Enjoyment should be the thing most encouraged in the game, because If people aren’t enjoying the game, they aren’t here to buy things in the first place.

Forsaken.2167:

I never said anything about ANET trying to keep the players down. I also never said anything about it being bad business or practice. Once again what I’m saying is their loot system is a business plan, whether you like it or not.

I’m pretty sure everyone understands it’s a business plan. The topic is whether or not it’s a good one. You don’t have to personally say that ANET is trying to keep players down, but that’s the result of system you’re advocating, in which PvE players have plenty of cash to buy whatever they want and PvPers are kept out of the loop.

If there’s a set amount of gold ANET wants each player to make per hour in order to make sure they aren’t getting too rich, that’s great. The game should be designed to keep people within that limit…. But it should match accross the board. Not reward certain playstyles vastly over another.

Just last week, I got an exotic drop worth 8g, along with 3 more rares in about 2 hours of wvw play. I get pretty lucky sometimes, and sometimes I don’t.

Overall, think pve may be more profitable, but I mainly only do wvw so I don’t have much pve time to compare it to.

Raincrow.1840:

I’m pretty sure everyone understands it’s a business plan. The topic is whether or not it’s a good one. You don’t have to personally say that ANET is trying to keep players down, but that’s the result of system you’re advocating, in which PvE players have plenty of cash to buy whatever they want and PvPers are kept out of the loop.

You make good points Rain.

I think there was a slight misunderstanding, It was not my intention to advocate the current system, I was just trying to explain what I thought it was and why. I apologize for being cryptic in that regard. W3 is all I do so of course I want to make gold, and that is just not happening.

Uberlicious.3956:

i cant speak for the rest of you but when i got out into WvW each night its to have fun and kill people , the loot isn’t even on my mind, if i need money i can throw on a mf set and farm pve for a bit… but at the end of the day i wvw because i enjoy it.

+1. I mostly WvW because it’s fun, although it would be nice to have a chance to make enough cash for a commander icon before I die of old age. At currently rate it will take me at least another 6 months before I have enough (and I don’t have much hope of ever being able to afford a legendary).

I got an exotic from wvw once.

It dropped from an npc at a supply camp.

Almost 15k kills. I’ve had a total of two level 80 exotics drop and maybe a dozen rares. I rarely PVE and I use a lot of siege so by the time I’ve repaired, upgraded some keeps and dropped siege I’m lucky if I can clear a few silver profit an hour in WvWvW.

I always play in a group so my loot is maximised and I run with a big guild with maybe up to 30 of us in WvW at most at any one time. Average play time is around 2 – 3 hours per day for me, and I just asked in guild chat none of us have ever seen a pre-cursor drop, most of us have had less than a handful of exotics and a good dozen of those asked are at over 20k kills.

I’m actually pretty tired of people leaving WvW groups to do CoF runs or fractals because they are “broke”. When you add in the time needed to farm badges for the WvW armor compared to the time taken for dungeon armor WvW really gets the shaft on rewards and it needs to be looked at, hopefully in the Feb update if not before.

Honestly these days i’m getting more grateful for naff loot. Keeps PvE players out of WvW who would compromise tactics and such just seeking loot. Imagine the queues if WvW was a loot fest.