Guild Wars 2

Downed state can support zergs over skilled smaller teams which sucks, skilled gameplay should be rewarded not the other way around.

Do you guys think it would be a good step to make it so you cannot be ressed once you have died in downed state? (stomped/corpse dmg) this way zergs cant just res up everyone who has been killed and keep on overwelming you with sheer numbers. So you can res them only while they are still ’’alive’’ downed.

This is just Anet karma.

WvWvW is doomed.

To be honest I don’t think they will ever remove the down state in wvw (I don’t like it as much as the rest of you) but it is something they took time to develop and put effort into, if anything they will try and make it work by separating down the down states in wvw from pve, I think personally what should be done is, the HP pool of everyone in down state for wvw should be normalized everyone has the same small HP pool in down state in wvw, it just seems right, they also need to decrees the time it takes to stomp in wvw, to at least 2x faster then what it is right now, this or increase the time it takes for an in combat res to happen, someone should not be able to res a team mate faster then I can down them.

Downstate is a mechanic that is built in to make insta burst kills all the is viable. If you burst someone but can’t finish them then your gonna have to do it again.

I have more issues with rally, but if you lump it in with downed state it’s just a mechanic to make it easier for bads. It doesn’t hurt me much, but it’s the name of the game… casual friendly to the max… kitten the hardcore player unless they want to pve grind a legendary.

Aegis.9724:

Its a necessary evil in pve, due to the whole game being based on one-shots.

Useless and annoying in pvp/wvw.

This

Caliban.3176:

silkysoft.6749:

Why don’t they make a trap that doesn’t allow downed state?

Please don’t give them completely idiotic ideas, it is far too likely that ANet might implement it.

I think they should add a counter trap that stops other traps from being place. Then also another trap that stops the counter trap from being placed.

why you people insist so much on this? stop thinking in your small world, we have noobies who go into wvw with lvl1 alts which can kill em in matter of seconds, I can’t imagine how many had a second chance because of downed state, it helps A LOT to those who are learning the basics or what… you wanna remove non 80’s from wvw too? but what a really muses me is that the so called ‘pros’ wanna remove this from wvw well then… I thought you guys said you were pro :P deal with it, shouldn’t be a problem if you are amazingly pro,

sostronk.8167:

Caliban.3176:

silkysoft.6749:

Why don’t they make a trap that doesn’t allow downed state?

Please don’t give them completely idiotic ideas, it is far too likely that ANet might implement it.

I think they should add a counter trap that stops other traps from being place. Then also another trap that stops the counter trap from being placed.

NOOOOOOOOO What have you done? You’re playing with fire.

I like the downed state. It’s certainly a better mechanic than cleric heals in other MMOs, which ALSO render large groups immune to smaller ones. Downed requires more effort from everyone, since you’re not just sitting back and relying on a few people watching health bars to keep everyone else up.

And it makes small fights much more tactical as you can’t just burst someone down and fight over with a few simple macros – you also have to consider the endgame. You have to consider which class you just downed and what options they have, and on what cooldowns. Yes, there’s some more balancing required in downed abilities, but the fundamentals are sound.

However, one thing I do agree with is you should NOT be able to rally off the wildlife in WvW. It takes away from the PvP aspect of the fight, and adds a gamey element – one I as an engineer often ruthlessly exploit, but that doesn’t make it any less gamey.

That aside, I suspect many of those people who can’t handle downed are just refusing to adjust their playstyle. It’s a problem with your tactics, not the game. If you’re regularly downing your foe, and then losing when they sock you from downed, you’re botching the fight, as surely as if they beat you from the outset.

I like the downed state because it makes people froth at the mouth. Like in Cujo.

like the downed state and idk why this hasn’t been mentioned but the elite warrior banner actually will res you too so its been worked into class mechanics of game…part of finishing a zerg is doubling back and finishing anyone left alive..in real life you can be injured but not dead just like here you can be injured(downed) but not dead(defeated)…. it seems to me to many pvp ppl are trying to turn the huge army v army(yes army’s have siege as part of there weapons of choice) fights that is the very description of wvw into 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1..personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp

Zero.6082:

Firegoth no it is not cause now i am really bored and the journey to get there was really boring i mean face it the story sucked! And the heart quests are chores not epic quests like most mmos out there. So i would rather them have taken there time to develop quests stories and epicness so the game wasn’t rushed into boring level 80. There’s nothing to do but farm. This game is over glorified PVP so at least get rid of the down state and do something right in this game.

Your opinion of the story is your own. While I would have liked a bit more variance of the storyline from profession to profession(aka ToR like) it was enjoyable enough.

As to hearts vs Epic quests in most other MMO’s… What MMO’s have you been playing? In every one I’ve played (most of the big name ones) for every absolutly epic quest/chain there was a dozen kill 10 bears, fetch and carry, painful escort, or simple delivery quests. On top of that hearts were never ment to be a replacement for quests. At most they are the equivalent of the delivery breadcrumb quests designed to lead you to a level appropriate area. DE’s are the quest alternitives and while I admit there are plenty of the hum drum types every MMO has it also has a number that are quite epic in their own right, just like every other MMO out there.

There is alot in this game Anet did right, some they could do beter, and a few things they did wrong IMO but really thats my opinion of every other MMO out there. I chalk that up to differences in game design and enjoy the game for what it is. The fact that you point at downed state and indicate its removal would be the only thing that would be right about this game if it happend implies you’ve got a very bad case of “Grass is Greener” syndrome. If you prefer the styles of the other games so much… Well theres the door, you can walk through it at any time.

Merendel.7128:

Zero.6082:

Firegoth no it is not cause now i am really bored and the journey to get there was really boring i mean face it the story sucked! And the heart quests are chores not epic quests like most mmos out there. So i would rather them have taken there time to develop quests stories and epicness so the game wasn’t rushed into boring level 80. There’s nothing to do but farm. This game is over glorified PVP so at least get rid of the down state and do something right in this game.

Your opinion of the story is your own.

Finally someone who loves Trahearn and the Epic battle with Zhaitan.

Rednik.3809:

Downed state is anti-burst mechanic, and absolutely necessary in game without specialized healers. If brainless glasscannon know only how to unload burst and cannot finish the job – its 101% l2p thing. Don’t want l2p? Go QQ more, no one cares.

DS is a pro-burst mechanic as it takes a fixed % of your HP to be reserved for DS.

Is it really more fun to throw rocks than use your normal skills?

When I go downed, get missed by the onrushing Zerg, and then set off a bomb under half a dozen of them? Hell yes, it’s fun.

Just had a fight in SoR BL for Greenbriar where I died on the stairs then blasted all the oncoming BG off the steps, and rallied when one of them splattered on hitting the ground.

So awesome.

For some reason this (downed state) has never bothered me. I am not sure why.

I loved it in borderlands and I like the tension of maybe, just maybe getting a rally. It is a rush.

Mooodster.3470:

it seems to me to many pvp ppl are trying to turn the huge army v army(yes army’s have siege as part of there weapons of choice) fights that is the very description of wvw into 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1..

Wake up this a game, and should be fun. Gw2 has way too many effects, pets, clones, teleports etc, anything but small scale fights is TERRIBLE, just pure aoe spam. Lol just go on youtube and watch some zerg vs zerg fights (even from “organized” guilds)…most of the times they don’t even call a target or even target someone…they just spam aoe. Add the huge lag and what you get is just a terrible gaming experience. I cannot believe there are players who like this…most of them are just bad so they need to hide behind the zerg cos they are too afraid to die. They (the devs…) should encourage small scale fights cos they are much more fun and virtually without lag.
Also this game is basically already a 1v1v1v1v1….. expecially zerg fights, what all the players do is spam aoe dmg, spam boons, spam aoe heals, spam aoe pulls, spam everything. Lol there are often so many red names around you can’t even see the enemy players.

Mooodster.3470:

personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp

Pve is that way —-—→
Wvw IS pvp, or at least should be pvp. This game mode has a lot of potential and the devs should realize that.
Oh btw zerg fights are not even pve. I mean in dungeons you have to use teamplay and often dodge at the right time etc, it’s not a button smashing at all. So my logical deduction is you don’t even like pve…

Downed state is fine, but they should change it so you don’t ress faster with more people. Both downed state ressing and defeated ressing should go at the same slow speed no matter how many are doing it.

Down state is garbage, plain and simple, you’re doing your kitten in WvW, random elementalist jumps down, spams all his cool downs you “Down him” he turn into mist runs back into the keep/building lalala self res himself via #4 comes out and do the same again. Now a warrior comes out, he spams his cool downs you “down him” he throws his hammer and get’s killed right after cause there is nothing else he can do.

Thief and warrior fight, thief “downs” warrior and thief got 2%? of his hp left, thief stealths goes behind the warrior and finish him no problem. Same Scenario with warrior downing thief, warrior starts his lame animation, thief downs him due to high down damage warrior goes down, thief continies pressure, warrior res himself, if his frenzy goes off cool down, thief #4 while warrior is having his glorified summon of a lame stick > when he is about to hit thief tele’s behind him, warrior runs to him, he stealths, by the time warrior starts a 3rd attempt his vengance is over he dies anyways and the thief rally :P.

Big keep I down 5 people, they down 1 they focus fire that 1 and all 5 rally bam balance right there. Warrior drops his elite banner rally all 5… downed an elementalist he runs back to his friends for res so on. Mesmers got the worse down state imo. All they can do is clone to die… so yeah. Downed state only makes WvW lame as kitten, is good for pve maybe but pvp and WvW no way in hell.

Lyonell.1753:

Down state is garbage, plain and simple, you’re doing your kitten in WvW, random elementalist jumps down, spams all his cool downs you “Down him” he turn into mist runs back into the keep/building lalala self res himself via #4 comes out and do the same again. Now a warrior comes out, he spams his cool downs you “down him” he throws his hammer and get’s killed right after cause there is nothing else he can do.

Thief and warrior fight, thief “downs” warrior and thief got 2%? of his hp left, thief stealths goes behind the warrior and finish him no problem. Same Scenario with warrior downing thief, warrior starts his lame animation, thief downs him due to high down damage warrior goes down, thief continies pressure, warrior res himself, if his frenzy goes off cool down, thief #4 while warrior is having his glorified summon of a lame stick > when he is about to hit thief tele’s behind him, warrior runs to him, he stealths, by the time warrior starts a 3rd attempt his vengance is over he dies anyways and the thief rally :P.

Big keep I down 5 people, they down 1 they focus fire that 1 and all 5 rally bam balance right there. Warrior drops his elite banner rally all 5… downed an elementalist he runs back to his friends for res so on. Mesmers got the worse down state imo. All they can do is clone to die… so yeah. Downed state only makes WvW lame as kitten, is good for pve maybe but pvp and WvW no way in hell.

Too me, the down state is just outright annoying and should be removed. I’ve come across so many cases where it literally takes double the time to kill them in the downed state, than it does when they are up and moving.

I like that players can be revived on the battlefield, that’s fine, but once a player’s hp reaches 0, leave it at that and they are immobile until revived. No fighting back, no teleporting around, no vanishing, no blowing people back, stunning them etc.. it’s a complete waste of time. Occasionally the downed player revives and gets away, but in reality, all it’s done is just wasted everyone’s time (including the one who was downed).

If any changes are made to WvW, I hope it’s this first, removing the downed state.

I don’t understand.

People want to simply raise the health and remove downed state.

What is the difference? He’s down and can’t do much anymore (save for warrior).

And the whole system also works for you. It’s not like it only works on your enemies.

Fjandi.2516:

Mooodster.3470:

it seems to me to many pvp ppl are trying to turn the huge army v army(yes army’s have siege as part of there weapons of choice) fights that is the very description of wvw into 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1..

Wake up this a game, and should be fun. Gw2 has way too many effects, pets, clones, teleports etc, anything but small scale fights is TERRIBLE, just pure aoe spam. Lol just go on youtube and watch some zerg vs zerg fights (even from “organized” guilds)…most of the times they don’t even call a target or even target someone…they just spam aoe. Add the huge lag and what you get is just a terrible gaming experience. I cannot believe there are players who like this…most of them are just bad so they need to hide behind the zerg cos they are too afraid to die. They (the devs…) should encourage small scale fights cos they are much more fun and virtually without lag.
Also this game is basically already a 1v1v1v1v1….. expecially zerg fights, what all the players do is spam aoe dmg, spam boons, spam aoe heals, spam aoe pulls, spam everything. Lol there are often so many red names around you can’t even see the enemy players.

Mooodster.3470:

personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp

Pve is that way —-—->
Wvw IS pvp, or at least should be pvp. This game mode has a lot of potential and the devs should realize that.
Oh btw zerg fights are not even pve. I mean in dungeons you have to use teamplay and often dodge at the right time etc, it’s not a button smashing at all. So my logical deduction is you don’t even like pve…

I don’t know man, I hear there is a button shaped like a castle with “WvW” tool tip on it.

THEN, there is this KILLJOY button shaped like crossing swords, AND IT HAS PVP AS ITS TOOLTIP!

DOES THIS MEAN WVW IS NOT PVP? OH NOES!!!!!

As a side note, the objective of WvW is to gather points, not to engage in an honorable duel as the zerg stopped the fight and watch you in awe.

If you want to be praised for skill, go to PvP instead? It even has the “pvp” tag right there

Cause this game is aimed as casuals and they need second chance after dying cause they are bad.

Many of those that support downed state(not all of you) fail to realize that most who don’t like it aren’t complaining about it being too hard. They aren’t happy with how it annoys and irritates them. I myself would personally find the game more fun without it. I’ll put up with it, but I rather not have it in the game or at least not in wvw.

I don’t think the devs intended it as a crutch for bad players either. They certainly didn’t balance the game with downed state in mind either. Downed state was something that they needed because there weren’t dedicated healers or aggro control and real tanks. A side effect is that you have to deal with it in wvw and spvp. They should learn from GW1 and have it function differently in wvw, spvp, and pve. Whether it be removed or changed.

To those who say it’s to help with burst. What’d you think was going to happen when a glass cannon chose to melt your class cannon. You should be dead, simple as that. Every build has a weakness that can be exploited. Being glassy is your weakness that you chose when you built that way. Just like lack of damage is what you have when you build tanky. You give up things no matter what build you are running. Every class also has its inherent advantages and disadvantages. This is after all what defines classes.

On the subject of 1v3 or 1v2 or whatever. Should the solo person be able to win? Assuming equal skill no. It does however, give a biased advantage to the larger force. A lot of soloers are like me and would be happy to kill one maybe two of them, and all three if they are terrible. Downed state prevents this from being possible most of the time. If players are epically bad yeah that soloer could do well, but downed state doesn’t allow them to kill any competent players in said situation.

Now a well played class that is properly set up or equipped with what they need to down someone in the situation can do it. However, that’s assuming a generalizing. When in fact most classes/builds are set up like that. This lack of being able to do something significant in that situation because of a mechanic actually makes the game less fun and discourages those kinds of fights. This is the same for any outnumbered fight. What this then causes is more staring contests and more people going hmm just me and three of them. Nope. I get nothing out of that. Let’s continue running across the map not having fun.

Wouldn’t you rather have more outnumbered fights and better more fun fights?

Firegoth.6427:

Or just play the class that you find so OP instead.
Maxing and alt in this game takes much much less time than any other MMO, which was the best idea in the history of mmorpg’s.

Sadly this is the mentality of people who play OP classes. Devs leaving OP classes as such enforces this mentality and results in people leaving because they forced to play an OP class they don’t like or having the game turn into Mesmer or Thief wars. Eventually the game will get boring for those people as well.

They could either:

A) Make the downed state a trait or utility/passive skill as someone mentioned
B) Downed activated at say 20% hp left, once hp is 0 though, game over
C) Rezzers take 100% extra damage while in the process of rezzing

Any of these would make it more interesting than it is now.

Raestloz.7134:

Fjandi.2516:

Mooodster.3470:

it seems to me to many pvp ppl are trying to turn the huge army v army(yes army’s have siege as part of there weapons of choice) fights that is the very description of wvw into 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1..

Wake up this a game, and should be fun. Gw2 has way too many effects, pets, clones, teleports etc, anything but small scale fights is TERRIBLE, just pure aoe spam. Lol just go on youtube and watch some zerg vs zerg fights (even from “organized” guilds)…most of the times they don’t even call a target or even target someone…they just spam aoe. Add the huge lag and what you get is just a terrible gaming experience. I cannot believe there are players who like this…most of them are just bad so they need to hide behind the zerg cos they are too afraid to die. They (the devs…) should encourage small scale fights cos they are much more fun and virtually without lag.
Also this game is basically already a 1v1v1v1v1….. expecially zerg fights, what all the players do is spam aoe dmg, spam boons, spam aoe heals, spam aoe pulls, spam everything. Lol there are often so many red names around you can’t even see the enemy players.

Mooodster.3470:

personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp

Pve is that way —-—->
Wvw IS pvp, or at least should be pvp. This game mode has a lot of potential and the devs should realize that.
Oh btw zerg fights are not even pve. I mean in dungeons you have to use teamplay and often dodge at the right time etc, it’s not a button smashing at all. So my logical deduction is you don’t even like pve…

I don’t know man, I hear there is a button shaped like a castle with “WvW” tool tip on it.

THEN, there is this KILLJOY button shaped like crossing swords, AND IT HAS PVP AS ITS TOOLTIP!

DOES THIS MEAN WVW IS NOT PVP? OH NOES!!!!!

As a side note, the objective of WvW is to gather points, not to engage in an honorable duel as the zerg stopped the fight and watch you in awe.

If you want to be praised for skill, go to PvP instead? It even has the “pvp” tag right there

As much as you or anyone else doesn’t want to accept that wvw is pvp, it is. pvp stands for player vs player. That is what wvw is. Players HAVE to fight each other to control most of the map. Though it is primarily about large group pvp it is still pvp. It’s labeled world vs world because it is server vs server. Oh guess what servers have on them to fight each other? Oh that’s right other players and that’s what you primarily fight. Both sPVP and WvW are pvp. Everyone can argue all they want about what they think about wvw or spvp, but at the end of the day they are both pvp.

IXJac.4197:

I like the downed state. It’s certainly a better mechanic than cleric heals in other MMOs, which ALSO render large groups immune to smaller ones. Downed requires more effort from everyone, since you’re not just sitting back and relying on a few people watching health bars to keep everyone else up.

And it makes small fights much more tactical as you can’t just burst someone down and fight over with a few simple macros – you also have to consider the endgame. You have to consider which class you just downed and what options they have, and on what cooldowns. Yes, there’s some more balancing required in downed abilities, but the fundamentals are sound.

However, one thing I do agree with is you should NOT be able to rally off the wildlife in WvW. It takes away from the PvP aspect of the fight, and adds a gamey element – one I as an engineer often ruthlessly exploit, but that doesn’t make it any less gamey.

That aside, I suspect many of those people who can’t handle downed are just refusing to adjust their playstyle. It’s a problem with your tactics, not the game. If you’re regularly downing your foe, and then losing when they sock you from downed, you’re botching the fight, as surely as if they beat you from the outset.

You are one of the few players who like the downed state then. The majority of people who spvp or WvW regularly hate it and that is why they are leaving. You have your own heal. If your heal can’t keep you up then I dunno what to say..just that downed state is a handicap.

I like the scenario you gave at the end but its not what people run into. What people run into is someone going against 2 or 3 people and is able to down someone right from the start. Then one or both of the other players proceed to revive the downed player thus punishing the solo player for being able to take down one of 3 people.

I dunno but I find that as a way for people NOT to learn to play properly and rely on numbers over skill to get them out of a jam. I don’t see how that is enjoyable and so is the declining wvw and spvp base.

savints.6281:

To be honest I don’t think they will ever remove the down state in wvw (I don’t like it as much as the rest of you) but it is something they took time to develop and put effort into, if anything they will try and make it work by separating down the down states in wvw from pve, I think personally what should be done is, the HP pool of everyone in down state for wvw should be normalized everyone has the same small HP pool in down state in wvw, it just seems right, they also need to decrees the time it takes to stomp in wvw, to at least 2x faster then what it is right now, this or increase the time it takes for an in combat res to happen, someone should not be able to res a team mate faster then I can down them.

Just how they took time to develop underwater fighting and everyone hates it? Just because you like something doesn’t mean you have to shove it down everyone’s throat when they don’t like it ESPECIALLY if they are your paying customers.

I bet you 20g that if a poll was taken on what arena would be removed in spvp it would be raid on capricorn.

XII.9401:

savints.6281:

To be honest I don’t think they will ever remove the down state in wvw (I don’t like it as much as the rest of you) but it is something they took time to develop and put effort into, if anything they will try and make it work by separating down the down states in wvw from pve, I think personally what should be done is, the HP pool of everyone in down state for wvw should be normalized everyone has the same small HP pool in down state in wvw, it just seems right, they also need to decrees the time it takes to stomp in wvw, to at least 2x faster then what it is right now, this or increase the time it takes for an in combat res to happen, someone should not be able to res a team mate faster then I can down them.

Just how they took time to develop underwater fighting and everyone hates it? Just because you like something doesn’t mean you have to shove it down everyone’s throat when they don’t like it ESPECIALLY if they are your paying customers.

I bet you 20g that if a poll was taken on what arena would be removed in spvp it would be raid on capricorn.

Exactly that is the difference between successful developers and ones that aren’t. That holds true across many professions. Writing, movies, tv shows, music, and anything else in the entertainment industry. If people push their own agenda too much they will eventually get a negative effect. Whether it be right away or take some time. People need to voice their opinions and how they feel about aspects of something they want to see do well. Too many people view criticism or complaining(whatever you want to call it) as a bad thing. When in fact it is one of the primary driving forces behind bettering things and driving good change.

down state directly encourages zerging.

I find that it works in tPvP and PvE, but in WvW it is a rather silly concept.

Elochai.1280:

Many of those that support downed state(not all of you) fail to realize that most who don’t like it aren’t complaining about it being too hard. They aren’t happy with how it annoys and irritates them.

Because they are bad, and don’t know anything about long fight with long CD management, except “lol i gonna press my burst cycle and run away”.

Elochai.1280:

What’d you think was going to happen when a glass cannon chose to melt your class cannon. You should be dead, simple as that. Every build has a weakness that can be exploited. Being glassy is your weakness that you chose when you built that way. Just like lack of damage is what you have when you build tanky. You give up things no matter what build you are running. Every class also has its inherent advantages and disadvantages. This is after all what defines classes.

I don’t care about glasscannon fights, because glasscannons are worthless in any meaningful battle. Down state allows heavy raid manage attrition fights though organization and wrack crowds of mindless unorganized AoE spammers, just because we can finish them much faster before they manage to finish our downed. Unorganized force MUST lose against organized, and downed state allows this to happen. So until anet will add targeted heals to help keep up the raid – downed state must stay here, otherwise wvw will fall into mindless ranged aoe spam fights.

Rednik.3809:

Elochai.1280:

Many of those that support downed state(not all of you) fail to realize that most who don’t like it aren’t complaining about it being too hard. They aren’t happy with how it annoys and irritates them.

Because they are bad, and don’t know anything about long fight with long CD management, except “lol i gonna press my burst cycle and run away”.

Elochai.1280:

What’d you think was going to happen when a glass cannon chose to melt your class cannon. You should be dead, simple as that. Every build has a weakness that can be exploited. Being glassy is your weakness that you chose when you built that way. Just like lack of damage is what you have when you build tanky. You give up things no matter what build you are running. Every class also has its inherent advantages and disadvantages. This is after all what defines classes.

I don’t care about glasscannon fights, because glasscannons are worthless in any meaningful battle. Down state allows heavy raid manage attrition fights though organization and wrack crowds of mindless unorganized AoE spammers, just because we can finish them much faster before they manage to finish our downed. Unorganized force MUST lose against organized, and downed state allows this to happen. So until anet will add targeted heals to help keep up the raid – downed state must stay here, otherwise wvw will fall into mindless ranged aoe spam fights.

Just because people don’t like downed state, doesn’t make them bad. It means they don’t like it. It’s that plain and simple. I’m sorry you can’t see that. By that logic you ALWAYS have to be good at something to like it.

There’s tons of skills that lend much more to long fights and allow for a more organized group to win. They do much more in that aspect then downed state can ever hope to. Rezzing and killing people in downed state is just as mindless as this so called mindless aoe spam you speak of.

By saying glass cannons don’t matter in any fight you are saying dps doesn’t matter. Well played smart glass cannons can bring a world of hurt to the enemy. They aren’t optimal in many situations, but they certainly have their place. They are generally the prefered role that less experienced players choose, but they are far from worthless.

The game doesn’t need downed state in wvw. There is tons ways to support your group, heal, and protect them. Much of these skills can do much more than dedicated healers could by preventing damage in the first place. Lets not forget about how many more skills every single player has to keep themselves up. Is downed state there and does it add something to the game? Yes, a little bit. Just another mindless mechanic though. Being that it takes just as much thought or brain power to do as what else has been referred to as mindless.

Many of us do and don’t like downed state for various reasons. However, not liking downed state doesn’t make someone bad and downed state is not necessary.

Already hard enough as it is to 1v3. But when you finally down someone they get revived before you could finish….

Elochai.1280:

By saying glass cannons don’t matter in any fight you are saying dps doesn’t matter. Well played smart glass cannons can bring a world of hurt to the enemy. They aren’t optimal in many situations, but they certainly have their place.

Glass cannon cannot survive run trough the sizable enemy zerg without wasting long survival CD. Therefore, they have no place in an organized group, no one needs a fighter who is fit only then to stand behind the group and not capable of movement inside the enemy zerg.

Elochai.1280:

There is tons ways to support your group, heal, and protect them. Much of these skills can do much more than dedicated healers could by preventing damage in the first place. Lets not forget about how many more skills every single player has to keep themselves up. Is downed state there and does it add something to the game? Yes, a little bit. Just another mindless mechanic though. Being that it takes just as much thought or brain power to do as what else has been referred to as mindless.

I play organized WvW since first BWE. There is NO way to keep all your guildmates alive inside large enough enemy zergs for long time. Stuns, immobilizes, pulls, knockdowns, stability dispelling, constant heavy AoE – ppl will begin to fall. Rally allows us to pick them back up, regroup, heal up, and make a new charge. Remove downstate and zerg warfire will become AoE-fest with only one rule “you have more numbers and more AoE – you win already”.

Rednik.3809:

I play organized WvW since first BWE. There is NO way to keep all your guildmates alive inside large enough enemy zergs for long time. Stuns, immobilizes, pulls, knockdowns, stability dispelling, constant heavy AoE – ppl will begin to fall. Rally allows us to pick them back up, regroup, heal up, and make a new charge. Remove downstate and zerg warfire will become AoE-fest with only one rule “you have more numbers and more AoE – you win already”.

But this is exactly how WvW is right now. Down state directly encourages zerging because having one more body on the field than the opponent means you (generally) automatically win the engagement.

If anything, Anet needs to first make it so that DEAD (not downed) players are automatically ported back to spawn to prevent ressing, and secondly consider removing downed state completely from WvW.

Caliban.3176:

sostronk.8167:

Caliban.3176:

silkysoft.6749:

Why don’t they make a trap that doesn’t allow downed state?

Please don’t give them completely idiotic ideas, it is far too likely that ANet might implement it.

I think they should add a counter trap that stops other traps from being place. Then also another trap that stops the counter trap from being placed.

NOOOOOOOOO What have you done? You’re playing with fire.

I think ele need another skill set with invul on every skill to disarm traps?
or
Add another skill to cata or treb to counter the counter traps?

Reikou.7068:

But this is exactly how WvW is right now. Down state directly encourages zerging because having one more body on the field than the opponent means you (generally) automatically win the engagement.

Wrong. The purpose of any organized guilds – to win battles with fewer fighters, to let more people from our server get numerical superiority elsewhere.

Reikou.7068:

If anything, Anet needs to first make it so that DEAD (not downed) players are automatically ported back to spawn to prevent ressing, and secondly consider removing downed state completely from WvW.

To make game “lol, our respawn is closer, you cannot res nearby, we can, we win aready”? No thanks.

Gathslan.1870:

Downed state can support zergs over skilled smaller teams which sucks, skilled gameplay should be rewarded not the other way around.

Do you guys think it would be a good step to make it so you cannot be ressed once you have died in downed state? (stomped/corpse dmg) this way zergs cant just res up everyone who has been killed and keep on overwelming you with sheer numbers. So you can res them only while they are still ’’alive’’ downed.

My thought’s exactly..downed state is part of game mechanic’s and what makes Gw2 combat truly unique..it should not be removed because all theese whiners who just want easy kills..this is Gw2 not some “other” kitten MMO.What should be removed from WvW is the ability to revive people from defeated state.When a smaller group manages to wipe half of a 50 man zerg..they should stay dead and not be instantly revived by the other half.

Other thing is to limit number of rallies to one or so.

Rednik.3809:

Glass cannon cannot survive run trough the sizable enemy zerg without wasting long survival CD. Therefore, they have no place in an organized group, no one needs a fighter who is fit only then to stand behind the group and not capable of movement inside the enemy zerg.

I play organized WvW since first BWE. There is NO way to keep all your guildmates alive inside large enough enemy zergs for long time. Stuns, immobilizes, pulls, knockdowns, stability dispelling, constant heavy AoE – ppl will begin to fall. Rally allows us to pick them back up, regroup, heal up, and make a new charge. Remove downstate and zerg warfire will become AoE-fest with only one rule “you have more numbers and more AoE – you win already”.

Your assuming that organized groups run into and through zergs all the time. This is certainly one way. It is but one tactic. Running right into an enemy zerg is not the only thing organized players do nor should it ever be. Many tactics don’t call for a squishy to be in the middle of a zerg and they don’t have to be to do their job. There is nothing wrong with a squishier player being behind the other more tanky ones. It’s smart of them to do and they can put out more damage than someone built tougher. While an all glass group could go horribly wrong, to say that they have no place is wrong. You have to play to your group composition. You can prefer certain builds but every build has it’s place and every build can be effective in an organized group.

Well of course you can’t keep people up in the middle of a huge enemy force. That’s kind of the point. So you can take on many enemies at once and kill them quickly. Even if there was dedicated healers people still wouldn’t stay up when your getting hit by that many people. If they could then no one would ever die on either side.

Downed state simply prolongs the fight for both sides. It doesn’t give you some magical tactical edge. It’s being smart and knowing where and when to use your skills. It’s reacting to the current situation and adapting. Being ready to act differently in different situations. Getting out of the said aoe when it’s coming down. Those that lose fights to aoe either got out played by the other sides application of aoe, they didn’t properly handle or avoid it, or there was just that many players that you weren’t going to win no matter what.

You can like downed state as much as you want. Glass cannons can still be very effective. Running into the middle of an enemy zerg is not the only tactic and is actually the worst move you can make sometimes. Downed state only allows both sides to prolong the fight. You still have each side has so many dead after the fight. It doesn’t change the fact that large scale fights are mostly aoe driven. It doesn’t help you deal with aoe. If someone died via aoe they are still dead via aoe.

Downed is both good and bad depending on the situation. If i run around solo and get jumped by 3 people it sucks that they can rezz eachother faster then i can finnish. But in big scaled fights its pretty awesome.

They should add faster finnishing to the WvW progression tree. spent 5 points and reduce the time by 1/2 a sec. 10 points another 1/2 a sec and so on. Capped out it would take 1,5 sec to finnish someone.

Zero.6082:

…. you lost all your life in every other game but this one that means dead XD

In many of those games there’s several classes that have a ranged in-combat rez skill though that is usable in whatever their implementation of world pvp is. So yes you’re dead but yes you’re rez’d within seconds to continue on those games. And they often have dedicated healers that keep you alive longer than is possible in this game.

Elochai.1280:

Your assuming that organized groups run into and through zergs all the time. This is certainly one way. It is but one tactic. Running right into an enemy zerg is not the only thing organized players do nor should it ever be. Many tactics don’t call for a squishy to be in the middle of a zerg and they don’t have to be to do their job. There is nothing wrong with a squishier player being behind the other more tanky ones. It’s smart of them to do and they can put out more damage than someone built tougher. While an all glass group could go horribly wrong, to say that they have no place is wrong. You have to play to your group composition. You can prefer certain builds but every build has it’s place and every build can be effective in an organized group.

If you want to eliminate enemy zerg and you don’t have numerical superiority to simply crush it, you have to run into it. If you don’t, enemy players will always run away at low hp, heal up and go back, creating typical pug zerg warfire with “more numbers and more aoe = win”. If you are outnumbered, you only chance to win is dive in, run through, CC and nail down squishy AoE users before they can escape, quickly regroup on other side, buff, dive again, nail down more ppl, repeat, repeat, repeat. You must do this, strike fast, move constantly, keep buffs and heals rolling, stick together, or you will drown in AoE, just because of enemy numbers. If you want more damage in you group, you must spec your guildmates in half-damage specs, but still no glass-cannons, simply because glass cannon cannot be used against greatest numbers, they cannot dive, and they cannot stay outside because they will be eaten without heavies to cover them.

Elochai.1280:

Downed state simply prolongs the fight for both sides. It doesn’t give you some magical tactical edge. It’s being smart and knowing where and when to use your skills. It’s reacting to the current situation and adapting. Being ready to act differently in different situations. Getting out of the said aoe when it’s coming down. Those that lose fights to aoe either got out played by the other sides application of aoe, they didn’t properly handle or avoid it, or there was just that many players that you weren’t going to win no matter what.

You cannot avoid AoE from 60+ppl. You cannot react to them. You can only make it less effective by constant moving, rolling buffs, heals and condi cleansing, and you can stop it by fast eliminating aoe users, without giving them chance to escape. Crush into the core of ranged group, and they will be busy by running, ressing, healing – anything, but not dealing concentrated AoE anymore. Crush them again while they are trying to regroup, and they are done. And since they will be dying much faster because they are squishy, downed state and rally is tools for us, and death sentence for them.

Mooodster.3470:

personally hate pvp and would stop playing wvw if they changed it to be just like pvp

Pve is that way —-—->

Wvw IS pvp, or at least should be pvp. This game mode has a lot of potential and the devs should realize that.
Oh btw zerg fights are not even pve. I mean in dungeons you have to use teamplay and often dodge at the right time etc, it’s not a button smashing at all. So my logical deduction is you don’t even like pve…

I think he means that he doesn’t want WvW to turn into that corny nerdsports crap.

Rednik.3809:

I play organized WvW since first BWE. There is NO way to keep all your guildmates alive inside large enough enemy zergs for long time. Stuns, immobilizes, pulls, knockdowns, stability dispelling, constant heavy AoE – ppl will begin to fall. Rally allows us to pick them back up, regroup, heal up, and make a new charge. Remove downstate and zerg warfire will become AoE-fest with only one rule “you have more numbers and more AoE – you win already”.

Nope sorry what you are describing is a typical zerg vs zerg fight. You don’t play “organized” wvw…you do play in a zerg spamming buttons and following your commander. That’s not “organized” wvw. I’m not saying your bad i don’t even know who you are. That’s simply the only way to play in a fight like that…so much aoe, so many effects, pulls, knockdowns, lag…it’s terrible. Fights like that shouldn’t even exist in this game.
But hey your right removing downed state in wvw is not the only thing to do. They should NERF AOE (oh wait they know aoe must be nefed they have already said that…ofc they did nothing, as usual). If they nerfed aoe this game would be awesome…lol imagine all those baddies running in a zerg without even calling a target, there’s no way they could kill a small organized group. On the contrary the small group will kill all the zergers one by one, picking the right targets. And if a player of your party dies, there are many skills in this game to ress dead players.

Master of Timespace.2548:

I think he means that he doesn’t want WvW to turn into that corny nerdsports crap.

Ye well i used to play spvp a lot. Not anymore, i got bored. I don’t like that capture the flag kitten at all. I really expected the devs to put a new game mode in this game…meh ofc they did nothing. But arenas in this game would be a terrible idea, good luck fighting against 5 identical asura mesmers and stuff like that.

I’m not opposed to downed state, but I think it need at the very least be fairer between all the classes. That said, in my opinion, Anet should remove the ranger skill to call their pet to heal, it’s an almost instant heal, or they need do something similar to all classes. Currently, it’s not fair that rangers can get out of downed state so easily while the only class that have one shot try to rally is the warrior.

Since we don’t have a rally party, I say to take the skill out and give something else to rangers in spvp and wvw.

I like the part about players being able to revive each other. It’s very teamwork oriented, fun and creates tactical decisions (should I go in and save my buddy, while risking my own life, or am I better off fighting/running). I don’t like the other aspects to downed state for WvW.

I support the removal of downed state in WvW.