Guild Wars 2

Honestly, pre-release I had imagined that the intent was to pair servers with other servers with a similar amount of WvW activity. Seemed like a great idea to ensure that WvW was fun for all 3 sides in any given pairing…

Since the “scores” have been posted, people have been turning it into another competition to reach the top without any understanding whatsoever what that ranking actually means. I saw someone in /team the day before the last rematch (Yak’s Bend, we were in 3rd) saying how we needed to beat on number 2 exclusively so we could move up in rank, since we obviously couldn’t deal with #1.

They clearly don’t realize that we were matched with #1 NOW… moving up in rank is going to make that worse, as we’ll possibly be paired with a server that would be even more difficult. I said as much and was asked “well, why do you PvP then if not to compete?”

My understanding was that WvW was meant as a competition between 3 servers, not between my server and every server on that list at all times. I also thought that pairing servers was intended to provide those 3 servers with a relatively level playing field so that everyone can have fun, and not have to deal with tremendously pitched battles permanently.

The fact is, you have a subset (and from my experience it’s not an insignificant number) of the population that is only concerned about stats, be it their stats, their server’s stats, whatever. If you show them a number, they feel they need to do 1 better, always. In every other aspect of this game that’s fine, but not in WvW ranking if that’s meant as a balancing method.

This leads to people server-hopping, not showing up for WvW, forming unnecessary alliances simply to knock a server down the rankings, or focusing efforts on the easier opponent rather than the larger one, as the easier one is an easier move up the ladder.

Either remove that display, or just acknowledge it’s another form of competition and be done with it.

People had a scores/ranking list long before A net posted one. People just posted which server fought what each day/week and worked it out from there.

But I agree. Points are pointless. If you control the majority of the map when you play. Who cares about points?

So server pride is a horrible thing that must be abolished because you don’t care, regardless of the countless people that do?

I don’t even know how to speak to this thread. I didn’t know that there was such a thing as a pvper opposed to competition. You learn something new every day.

I also do not understand the mentality that we should be shielded from the truth. It is a competition. Putting on rose colored glasses when you play doesn’t seem like the correct answer.

It’s confusing I know. But he doesn’t keep score when kids play “competitive” sports either. Because it’s all about teaching the kids to have fun, not how to work as a team or trying to be the best you can be in everything you do. You know, like when you grow up and life is just a bowl of cherries; and nobody is out to one-up you or take over your job/business.

Azure Prower.8701:

..Points are pointless..

You know I just couldn’t have this pass by Not that I’m arguing with you but just an interesting pair of words

NAH.. leave it.
Gives some people something to aim for.

Obviously everyone seems to have missed the point. Server pride is great, but the mechanism was evidently put in place to keep each side balanced and playing with other servers that have similar WvW participation. See games like Warhammer if you want to see what happens to servers when they’re permanently paired with another server that completely trashes them regularly. It’s not fun at all for anyone concerned.

My thoughts are that the competition should be limited to the 3 server pairing that you’re currently involved with. Then you don’t have situations where #3 focuses on #2 alone in order to move up the rankings, instead #3 and #2 might join forces and go after #1.

The fact is for some reason, “Modern” MMO gamers don’t seem to be content with knowing they’re good, and building a reputation, they need to have that kittened number which tells them so, only in this case that number also determines what other servers we get paired with.

If it was an arbitrary number unrelated to the server pairings, then fine, no problems at all here, but it’s not. As for the “Obviously he must not want competition” aspect… I LOVE competition and WvW in general, I have since DAoC, but what good do those numbers serve other than to discourage people transferring to low ranked servers, and encouraging them to pile onto high ones? People look at that number and say “Hey, that must be a terrible server, they’re really low ranked” when in reality they could be a great server with really good organization, but lower population. Maybe the other servers they were paired with zerged the hell out of them, hurting their score. In this case they’re better off where they are, so they can have fair fights with similar servers instead of the constant demoralization of losing to hordes of mindless drones swarming the entire map every night.

But then again I play for fun, not to see an arbitrary number go up, so I guess that’s just me.

Its a competition, so we need scores. Game over.

Suddle D.9412:

Its a competition, so we need scores. Game over.

We get scores, you can see them if you hit “B”. Why do you think they pair us with people close to us in rankings? Just curious.

This isn’t sPvP where both teams are always going to be equal, you will always have servers with massively more population than others. Effectively what you’re saying is that those servers that score highly on the charts due to population do so because they’re better than everyone else?

Treize.7026:

But then again I play for fun, not to see an arbitrary number go up, so I guess that’s just me.

Doesn’t that imply that the others aren’t having fun? I’m sure that those who are concerned about their server ranking are also having fun.

Treize.7026:

Suddle D.9412:

Its a competition, so we need scores. Game over.

We get scores, you can see them if you hit “B”. Why do you think they pair us with people close to us in rankings? Just curious.

This isn’t sPvP where both teams are always going to be equal, you will always have servers with massively more population than others. Effectively what you’re saying is that those servers that score highly on the charts due to population do so because they’re better than everyone else?

Yes, if you have more points you are a better server, that’s what points mean and why they are numerical. Even if Anet didn’t come out with offical rankings, everyone would still know who won and lost and who was the top 10 servers. So it would change nothing. You don’t have to focus on rankings, BTW and just go and play the game regardless of rankings. But they have to match the servers somehow, right?

Points R Pointless! Dur I went to college and the teacher said my D was for Degree!

The number is simply for matchmaking. HoD has tons of players, and is 1st in rank because of it. Does that mean they’re ‘better’? I have the same kill/death ratio against them as with anyone else I’ve faced. The only difference is they’re much more bold in attacking – actually tends to help because it’s easy to lure them into a trap. They zerg just the same as anyone else. They send 40 people across the entire map to recap a single camp. It is server vs. server, so even if you’re amazing during your 2 hour play window, it doesn’t mean your server is amazing. So you can either switch servers and feel good because the server is amazing and you’re amazing, or you can just play and be amazing when you can be, and hope others do the same during different hours.

I have a strong feeling that given time, and expansions bringing in new players, and friends grabbing other friends to play, that the time zone issues will balance out.

Its Quality and not just Quantity, please don’t disrespect the hard work and coordination that the top guilds have put in, as well as the militia.

Suddle D.9412:

Its Quality and not just Quantity, please don’t disrespect the hard work and coordination that the top guilds have put in, as well as the militia.

As this is obviously your first time playing a game with large scale PvP, I’ll go ahead and clue you in that quantity trumps quality every time in these games. A well organized group of players is going to do very well against a zerg, but they’re still going to get squashed, it will just take longer especially in this game. If you have 100 people attacking a keep defended by 10 of the best players of all time, that’s still, at max 10 siege weapons firing out, something needs repaired? that’s one less siege weapon. Meanwhile the enemy horde is churning out siege weapons.

Once the door’s down they can quite literally ignore the defenders, squash the lord and then finish off any players that happen to be sticking around. I’ve seen it.

So while I’m not saying the top servers are massive groups of unskilled zerglings, I am saying that servers WITH massive groups of unskilled zerglings are far more likely to move up the ladder than small servers with highly organized/skilled guilds will.

I’m 100% for ranking GUILDS on points earned, because that actually makes sense, and wouldn’t be inherently tied to a critical game mechanic meant to offset the impact of imbalanced servers… but thinking that the server rankings are a scoreboard, and believing that positioning on that board implies anything other than WvW participation is just silly.

Not my first time, won’t be my last. Also saying something happens ‘every time’ is pretty ignorant… Sure 10 vs 100; 100 will win, but we have consistently wiped larger raids than us. Why, because we have quality players working together, and they have mindless numbers attacking every random person they see closest to them….

Treize.7026:

As this is obviously your first time playing a game with large scale PvP, I’ll go ahead and clue you in that quantity trumps quality every time in these games. A well organized group of players is going to do very well against a zerg, but they’re still going to get squashed, it will just take longer especially in this game. If you have 100 people attacking a keep defended by 10 of the best players of all time, that’s still, at max 10 siege weapons firing out, something needs repaired? that’s one less siege weapon. Meanwhile the enemy horde is churning out siege weapons.

Once the door’s down they can quite literally ignore the defenders, squash the lord and then finish off any players that happen to be sticking around. I’ve seen it.

So while I’m not saying the top servers are massive groups of unskilled zerglings, I am saying that servers WITH massive groups of unskilled zerglings are far more likely to move up the ladder than small servers with highly organized/skilled guilds will.

I’m 100% for ranking GUILDS on points earned, because that actually makes sense, and wouldn’t be inherently tied to a critical game mechanic meant to offset the impact of imbalanced servers… but thinking that the server rankings are a scoreboard, and believing that positioning on that board implies anything other than WvW participation is just silly.

This is exactly why WvWvW has a ranking system! Let’s say that those 10 people are SO good, and those 100 people are SO bad, that the small group won! Do you think those 10 people should play against 10 players that are average or 100 players that are average?

So, you have to put up with losing for a week until you get a better match (except in the cases of tiers, where it will take a few losses / wins), eventually everything will be pretty balanced. Remember, we still aren’t even to the 2-week campaigns yet! This system is still in its infancy of collecting data.

HoD is a resovoir of immense talent and skill. The disparity between server populations at specific times is in no way a factor in their success. And if it is, it’s because they are very good at recruiting and took out full page ads in the New York Times. What, none of you other talentless noobs ever thought of that?

Suddle D.9412:

Not my first time, won’t be my last. Also saying something happens ‘every time’ is pretty ignorant… Sure 10 vs 100; 100 will win, but we have consistently wiped larger raids than us. Why, because we have quality players working together, and they have mindless numbers attacking every random person they see closest to them….

The point being, you wipe larger raids than you, that’s great, you guys are probably really good. Over time and over the course of that matchup though, are you able to be everywhere defending every attack on every objective?

When we fought Anvil Rock and whomever the other server was we completely wiped the floor with both servers (I’m on Yak’s Bend). You know why we won? Not because we were better, but because we were everywhere. The players from Anvil that I encountered were no better/worse than us, they were just less numerous. Eventually it gets to the point where it’s just not possible to put the fires out fast enough. The boost in rating our server got would imply that we were better right? Even when the last few days of that matchup we were just racking up points doing effectively PvE as there was no one else out there?

MrPicklez.6473:

HoD is a resovoir of immense talent and skill. The disparity between server populations at specific times is in no way a factor in their success. And if it is, it’s because they are very good at recruiting and took out full page ads in the New York Times. What, none of you other talentless noobs ever thought of that?

Can you give me a link of a server taking full page ads in the New York Times?

There is no “world ranking”.

There is NA ranking and EU ranking.

Until HoD face Viznah they will not be viewed as “world number 1” by folks in the EU.

Points mean sod all when you are putting them ahead of teams they haven’t even faced.

We should all get participation medals kitten it

Gomly.6128:

There is no “world ranking”.

There is NA ranking and EU ranking.

Until HoD face Viznah they will not be viewed as “world number 1” by folks in the EU.

Points mean sod all when you are putting them ahead of teams they haven’t even faced.

He’s using “world” in the game sense. If you haven’t noticed, servers are officially called “worlds” in GW2.

That’s why it’s called “world vs world” and not “server vs server”.

Treize.7026:

Suddle D.9412:

Not my first time, won’t be my last. Also saying something happens ‘every time’ is pretty ignorant… Sure 10 vs 100; 100 will win, but we have consistently wiped larger raids than us. Why, because we have quality players working together, and they have mindless numbers attacking every random person they see closest to them….

The point being, you wipe larger raids than you, that’s great, you guys are probably really good. Over time and over the course of that matchup though, are you able to be everywhere defending every attack on every objective?

When we fought Anvil Rock and whomever the other server was we completely wiped the floor with both servers (I’m on Yak’s Bend). You know why we won? Not because we were better, but because we were everywhere. The players from Anvil that I encountered were no better/worse than us, they were just less numerous. Eventually it gets to the point where it’s just not possible to put the fires out fast enough. The boost in rating our server got would imply that we were better right? Even when the last few days of that matchup we were just racking up points doing effectively PvE as there was no one else out there?

Anvil Rock Represent, I concure : You wiped us of the map.

Treize.7026:

I saw someone in /team the day before the last rematch (Yak’s Bend, we were in 3rd) saying how we needed to beat on number 2 exclusively so we could move up in rank, since we obviously couldn’t deal with #1.

If you are speaking of the BG, GOM, YAK matchup, It wasn’t about server matching or anything like that.

BG had a 100k point lead on us where GOM was 500 points ahead of us. It was about achieving what small victory we could and nothing more. In a week long match when one server gets 100k over the others, which is usually the case in my experience.. there is simply no point in trying to beat them on the scoreboard.. it is futile and all but impossible.

as usual.. the culprit here in all of this is the scoreboard. the scoreboard is the reason people login, hit B, and go “well thats never gonna happen” and logout. this is the reason for server hopping, people not showing up for WvW, and the focusing on the little guy in my opinion.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just feel.. personally in my own opinion, that the scoreboard in-game has a much larger impact than the overall world rankings and is the actual source of these problems.

fivekiller.1432:

as usual.. the culprit here in all of this is the scoreboard. the scoreboard is the reason people login, hit B, and go “well thats never gonna happen” and logout. this is the reason for server hopping, people not showing up for WvW, and the focusing on the little guy in my opinion.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just feel.. personally in my own opinion, that the scoreboard in-game has a much larger impact than the overall world rankings and is the actual source of these problems.

Couldn’t agree more.

@ Treize you are such a troll, in any game you have played and will play there are casual’s/hardcore players, good/bad, and winners and losers.

in easy terms don’t hate the game kid. Simply just don’t mind the people that actually care about competition and continue playing your casual play-style you won’t bother anyone just don’t come on here and troll

They don’t do any real harm, the rankings largely show the distribution of servers with the greatest level of daily 24 hour activity. They do show who is the best server playing 24/7. they probably don’t show who the best guilds and alliances are but they do show the servers that have managed to get numbers on and use those numbers effectively.

all of the personal, guild and alliance kitten stroking should stay inside those guilds and alliances guild chats and websites if that happened we could acknowledge the rankings as simply how the servers stack up in their population distributions.

If there were no ranking of worlds, then people on worlds that were losing badly would just complain on these forums ’ why were we matched with x’.

At least with a visible server ranking you can see how and why you have the opponents you face, without such things the general ‘its unfair’ brigade would be even more vocal than they are now.

In 90% of all cases, rankings are solely about amount of players representing server..

Hitgirl.2810:

@ Treize you are such a troll, in any game you have played and will play there are casual’s/hardcore players, good/bad, and winners and losers.

in easy terms don’t hate the game kid. Simply just don’t mind the people that actually care about competition and continue playing your casual play-style you won’t bother anyone just don’t come on here and troll

I get that you are incapable of having an adult discussion, so suffice it to say, disagreeing with “Hitgirl” is not akin to being a troll.

I’d say ad hominem attacks would more closely fit that definition, but that’s just me.

After a few rounds of server matching, the servers will be paired up with other servers with similar activity. Thus, this is why we have the ranking system.

Chewy.9263:

After a few rounds of server matching, the servers will be paired up with other servers with similar activity. Thus, this is why we have the ranking system.

This will not happen with the way free transfers are impacting the game. It’s no fault of the players, either. Look at FA/BG/DB, it was a pretty close match, and now it looks as though after all of the Euro transfers to BG all of DB has given up. In fact, our largest guild is considering xferring to BG simply because they can’t compete with the off-peak hours. Can’t blame the players for using this to their advantage, but you can blame ArenaNet for trying to rank such fluctuating and changing servers.

I agree OP, it’s gotten silly in some match-ups. The entire thing is becoming a number crunching stat thing and little else in some match-ups. Alas, AN as done an outstanding job with this game in just about every aspect but WvWvW were they appear to want to do nothing but hide their head in the sand and say “LA LA LA LA” over and over again. It’s seriously disappointing how un-receptive they’ve been to fixing the issues WvW currently has. I don’t think they have any plans to do any major fixes to WvWvW in regards to cheating or the huge imbalances, kludgy goals or anything else currently working poorly.