Guild Wars 2

Its to a point with whos e-unit is bigger “mines bigger than elvis.” & what server has the most people.
The mechanics of it have grown stale. Where is the inventive? Every week it seems like more and more people are leaving the game.

The last patch added ranks & abilities. Well the ranks dont really mean anything and most of the abilities are not worth leveling up.
The new armor was recycled skins and It takes you longer to grind the gold in WvW then it does the badges of honor.

So whats the point? it just seems like the mechanics of it are broken. Why dont you at least add a dragon event to it for people to fight over or bring back orbs even though orbs was rather stale to begin with. & why cant there be a super badge of honor prize? Like 750 badges per item sorta thing.

It would really be nice for the 1 Dev controlling WvW to come out and give us his thoughts on the direction of WvW and where its headed.

[You were born in the long winter, you’ve never known anything else. But now… Summer is coming!]

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

Maybe your right. I guess im still searching for a updated “Asherons Call: Darktide”

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

But at this point, at least for tier 1… with the current mega zerg meta, it’s much less about tactics and skill, and more about who has the greater numbers and engages first. That coupled with the fact that there is no incentive for 2nd and 3rd servers to attack 1st (with the exception of stonemist, but it’s filled with skill lag 24/7 and no one enjoys it) The borderlands end up being a joke and incredibly boring. It’s come to the point where I almost never zerg anymore, and only roam and scout.

There need to be changes, or a lot of die-hard wvw players who play constantly and see all the faults all the time….. will leave. That’s a very large amount of people.

Skill lag for one… is a killer. I myself will leave or log-off when it starts happening, because it’s no longer a skill based tactical game at that point… I am now playing the RNG-skill-mini-game “Will this skill activate? Nope. How about this one? Nope. Can I heal maybe? Maybe I can use this weapon skill? How about this one?”

Tattare.7980:

Its to a point with whos e-unit is bigger “mines bigger than elvis.” & what server has the most people.
The mechanics of it have grown stale. Where is the inventive? Every week it seems like more and more people are leaving the game.

The last patch added ranks & abilities. Well the ranks dont really mean anything and most of the abilities are not worth leveling up.
The new armor was recycled skins and It takes you longer to grind the gold in WvW then it does the badges of honor.

So whats the point? it just seems like the mechanics of it are broken. Why dont you at least add a dragon event to it for people to fight over or bring back orbs even though orbs was rather stale to begin with. & why cant there be a super badge of honor prize? Like 750 badges per item sorta thing.

It would really be nice for the 1 Dev controlling WvW to come out and give us his thoughts on the direction of WvW and where its headed.

[You were born in the long winter, you’ve never known anything else. But now… Summer is coming!]

WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE. This mentality is what’s ruining WvW, It’s a PvP zone for people who wanna fight the other servers on a large scale, I would even go as far as to have them remove the majority of the Keeps and Towers so we can have less PvEers like yourself. Go back to your boring PvE. You don’t like WvW? Fine, stay away, like I do with PvE. You PvEers are the ones who are bringing about this zerg mentality because the vast majority of you are so afraid to fight someone that you do what all scaredy-cats do and group up until you completely outnumber the opponent to the point they have no chance and then turn and run from anyone not afraid to steamroll you. Once again, WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE.

It’s like asking why people play anything. Why do people play chess? I don’t get badges for taking pieces, I don’t get gold for winning, and when I say I’m 2300 only other people who are interested in chess could give a hoot.

The point of an MMO is to bring people together to have fun. And even when you’re fighting zergs day after day, the world design can keep these encounters varied to a degree. Every encounter is a little different and I find I’m learning new tactics and tricks all the time. You want to see bad faction/server based PvP, go check out Illum in SW:TOR; spawn camping and only spawn camping.

And like I said, it’s about having fun with friends. My favorite WvW moment has been during a huge fight, one of the guildies on TS confused his spit cup with his drink cup and started chugging with the predictable results broadcasted over the comms. The guild was laughing so hard that some of us had to WP to spawn because it was impossible for us to play right anymore.

Parktou.4263:

WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE. This mentality is what’s ruining WvW, It’s a PvP zone for people who wanna fight the other servers on a large scale, I would even go as far as to have them remove the majority of the Keeps and Towers so we can have less PvEers like yourself. Go back to your boring PvE. You don’t like WvW? Fine, stay away, like I do with PvE. You PvEers are the ones who are bringing about this zerg mentality because the vast majority of you are so afraid to fight someone that you do what all scaredy-cats do and group up until you completely outnumber the opponent to the point they have no chance and then turn and run from anyone not afraid to steamroll you. Once again, WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE.

WvW is NOT PvP, it is NOT PvE either. It is BOTH!!!!!!! Stop trying to convince people that your kitten is bigger because you can gank people or have more kills. The intent of WvW is territorial control NOT open field gank fests. You want to see how big your ekitten is, go to sPvP. There is a reason kills net you no points but holding towers and such do. Wake up to reality.

Parktou.4263:

Tattare.7980:

Its to a point with whos e-unit is bigger “mines bigger than elvis.” & what server has the most people.
The mechanics of it have grown stale. Where is the inventive? Every week it seems like more and more people are leaving the game.

The last patch added ranks & abilities. Well the ranks dont really mean anything and most of the abilities are not worth leveling up.
The new armor was recycled skins and It takes you longer to grind the gold in WvW then it does the badges of honor.

So whats the point? it just seems like the mechanics of it are broken. Why dont you at least add a dragon event to it for people to fight over or bring back orbs even though orbs was rather stale to begin with. & why cant there be a super badge of honor prize? Like 750 badges per item sorta thing.

It would really be nice for the 1 Dev controlling WvW to come out and give us his thoughts on the direction of WvW and where its headed.

[You were born in the long winter, you’ve never known anything else. But now… Summer is coming!]

WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE. This mentality is what’s ruining WvW, It’s a PvP zone for people who wanna fight the other servers on a large scale, I would even go as far as to have them remove the majority of the Keeps and Towers so we can have less PvEers like yourself. Go back to your boring PvE. You don’t like WvW? Fine, stay away, like I do with PvE. You PvEers are the ones who are bringing about this zerg mentality because the vast majority of you are so afraid to fight someone that you do what all scaredy-cats do and group up until you completely outnumber the opponent to the point they have no chance and then turn and run from anyone not afraid to steamroll you. Once again, WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE.

:D

Ah, speaking of zergs.

I see your zerg and raise you a blob only Vizu (and recently Deso) can deliver.

Catisa.6507:

Parktou.4263:

WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE. This mentality is what’s ruining WvW, It’s a PvP zone for people who wanna fight the other servers on a large scale, I would even go as far as to have them remove the majority of the Keeps and Towers so we can have less PvEers like yourself. Go back to your boring PvE. You don’t like WvW? Fine, stay away, like I do with PvE. You PvEers are the ones who are bringing about this zerg mentality because the vast majority of you are so afraid to fight someone that you do what all scaredy-cats do and group up until you completely outnumber the opponent to the point they have no chance and then turn and run from anyone not afraid to steamroll you. Once again, WVW IS NOT PVE, GO AWAY PLEASE.

WvW is NOT PvP, it is NOT PvE either. It is BOTH!!!!!!! Stop trying to convince people that your kitten is bigger because you can gank people or have more kills. The intent of WvW is territorial control NOT open field gank fests. You want to see how big your ekitten is, go to sPvP. There is a reason kills net you no points but holding towers and such do. Wake up to reality.

quoted for being bang on! Nice one Catista.

Parktou – really? you went with a carebear slur as your primary argument? Did you even read the OP?

The point isn’t that the OP wants more PvE in WvW… the point is that if all you have on a map is a bunch of objectives that a zerg runs around and takes without any kind of check in place that makes this a bad idea, then the meta game of WvW is BROKEN.

WvW, like Catista points out… is a GAME. It’s a week long competition to have the highest score. In between, it’s a bunch of smaller games to have the highest PPT while your group is active, and within that it is a series of skirmish games, generally over an objective (like a keep). Yes, it’s against other players, rather than NPCs (mostly). But, again as Catista points out, standing in a field slugging it out with your opponents is of ZERO VALUE to winning the game.

ANet, you need to add a component to the meta game that makes 70 person zergs the WORST thing you could possibly do because that 10-15 man group from an opposition server is doing something away from your zerg that will make you regret forming that big, useless murderball. Orbs may be it, or maybe it’s something else. But without incentive to WvW has devolved into a mindless WXP train.

Speaking of WXP, please, please, please rethink how this is allocated. For those that took part in the first year of Warhammer Online, you know what I am talking about. 24/7 RP Trains traveling from lake to lake taking objectives uncontested (worse than uncontested, deals were brokered with the other faction to NOT be on the same lake as the RP Train) simply for the sake of ranking up in RR. You can’t even say that this was because the rewards were too tempting. In the very early days, they weren’t… people did it simply because they wanted to rank up faster than the other guy and show their big eKitten.

WXP, in its current form is looking to be exactly the same. I have already heard people on TS say “let them have it, we’ll just flip it back for WXP” and these have been at winnable fights.

Warhammer eventually addressed the RP Train issue… a year too late and by that time it didn’t matter as they had shed any amount of success they had achieved.

I cannot believe ANet would want GW2 to face the same fate as Warhammer Online.

@warspite
First and foremost the reason I called OP out on being a PvEer in a PvP zone eis for the reason that they were asking for a “dragon event” and rewards for participating. WvW is about 3 servers going at each other, yes objectives are apart of it and to Catisa whining about me trying to have a gankfest in an open field or something to that extent, go ahead and quote me if you can find the part where I said that lol. Furthermore if you follow the point I was making, imo the problem with WvW is mostly due to people trying to treat it as PvE where you repetitively bang your collective heads against the same repetitive and easily predictable npc, when in fact it shouldn’t be about that. Also, if I’m roaming and end up fighting a group of 5+ enemies for upwards of 5 minutes, am I not preventing those people from gaining points? Does that somehow make my server lose points? No it doesn’t, it in fact helps my server quite a bit as that group could have taken camps in the time I spent fighting them.
The OP’s point whether subliminal or conscious was to make WvW MORE like PvE(incentives), which I am absolutely against as WvW is the only part of the game I enjoy and it just keeps getting ruined by PvEers who don’t wanna fight so much as they wanna run exp/karma trains. Which is why the zerg strategy even exists in the first place, and used by you guessed it, PvEers.

@Catisa
Take your own advice and wake up to reality, killing enemy “armies” is a great tactic for keeping them from capturing/defending an objective. WvW isn’t all about beating down worthless NPCs, like you do clearly do in PvE. Don’t get my post wrong, there is nothing wrong with enjoying your PvE(even though I absolutely hate it) as long as you do it somewhere else. Yes, technically WvW is both PvE and PvP, but the real WvW is about your servers army against another. Like my original post says, If you don’t like WvW then fine, avoid it like I do with PvE. Try not to be so sensitive maybe?

Also, Why does there need to be an incentive to fight for your server? Why can’t you just have a little pride in defending whats yours and taking what isn’t? The incentive concept comes from PvE, PvP needs no incentive other than Players to defeat other Players, which is exactly what WvW SHOULD be, even though it is certainly a confounded mess the way it is now.

In all fairness, I was a tad aggressive with my first post, but people still shouldn’t be so sensitive either.

there is non incentive, this game died for me when i realised theres no purpose of RVR and the maps are far too small, they still havent put in a WARHAMMER like warband feature either?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

basically DAOC 2. Hope to see lots of daoc/war ppl on there in a year or 2.

Dragons and loot? umm no, I don’t want to wait an hour or two in que because some kittens want to get yet another guaranteed rare. Remember, the cake is a lie!

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

Yes. That is why all successful MMORPGs have drops, weapons, armor, ranks etc. “Fun” is simply not enough since at the end of it you have nothing to show for your time.

If we go with the “Fun is enough” line, we should just remove all drops and play incentives completely.

All I want is for the ability to get decent exotics in a reasonable amount of time while playing WvW only. I really hate the idea of having to grind boring dungeons to be competitive; this is why neither of my 2 level 80 characters have anything more than exotic weapons (bought off the TP). The recent patch made a step in the right direction, but it still takes far more time to gear up in WvW than it does in PvE. I don’t see any logical reason why this should be the case.

jimdove.5704:

there is non incentive, this game died for me when i realised theres no purpose of RVR and the maps are far too small, they still havent put in a WARHAMMER like warband feature either?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

basically DAOC 2. Hope to see lots of daoc/war ppl on there in a year or 2.

Looking at that demo they have a long way to go.

500 AI casually walking on the screen, occasionally swinging…using the same two character models over and over. Doesn’t really look like much of a battle to me.

As a tech demo it looks very very dated. I understand the project is in infant mode, but were looking at at least 3 more years of development.

Big part of the problem here is that 95% of the players ONLY zerg. Well the simple fact of mmo player vs player is that you zerg early in your career. You gotta learn the ropes and what means what and how to actually physically play.

But then you take steps towards more challenging scenarios on a daily basis. Basically relying more on yourself and less on the masses. You start solo roaming, you start group running. Before you know it youre grouped with all guildies and working on builds to help each other in group survive more in fights.

Point is, venture past what some blue dorito says. Make your own decisions. Start ADDING friends to your list and grouping with them before just “Where’s the zerg?”. Guys, try fighting different styles and you will be surprised how much more fun you will have because the challenges are simply greater.

I enjoy it and that’s all the incentive I need.

The reason why there are so many zergs these days has nothing to do with pve. The reason people zerg is because its bloody effective. The current mechanics of wvw rewaard greater numbers and population more than anything else. Its been well establised in many other posts.

And there’s the problem. How do you set up the game in such a way that doesn’t favor zergs but is still balanced?

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

That’s why I rarely play WvW: Because it is not fun.

When I first heard about Guild Wars 2 I thought WvW would be the most fun part of it since I played Warhammer and liked the RvR there. But somehow Guild Wars 2 is boring… Server vs Server but all are the same… not that interesting thant race vs. race everyone with their different backgrounds would be. The whole mist stuff and fighting there… boring.

You run with the zerg cap some stuff get some points and log out. Does not feel like fun.

sPvP is a bit better there. At least you get in less than 15 minutes results and a win and it feels more intense. You helped to win and it feels good. You don’t get that feeling in WvW with the matches being long and the points ticking slowly while you only play a few hours and not 24/7 the whole week.

It don’t feels like you have accomplished something if you are one of the 50+ people in your zerg capping 1 keep that gets capped back later when you are offline and is not that important.

What I prefered would be something between sPvP and WvW. Something like bigger sPvP maps with other game modi and like 16 vs 16 players and own objectives that could include WvW stuff(there is already that crappy boring sPvP map with the Trebuchet siege). That could also be interesting for bigger guilds to fight there against each other.

bhagwad.4281:

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

Yes. That is why all successful MMORPGs have drops, weapons, armor, ranks etc. “Fun” is simply not enough since at the end of it you have nothing to show for your time.

If we go with the “Fun is enough” line, we should just remove all drops and play incentives completely.

Personally if the whole idea of rewards was scrapped from WvW I’d probably still play it. But then each to their own I suppose.

Luthan.5236:

KinkyWarrior.1879:

My incentive, is simply fun. Must we have a material incentive o.0?

That’s why I rarely play WvW: Because it is not fun.

When I first heard about Guild Wars 2 I thought WvW would be the most fun part of it since I played Warhammer and liked the RvR there. But somehow Guild Wars 2 is boring… Server vs Server but all are the same… not that interesting thant race vs. race everyone with their different backgrounds would be. The whole mist stuff and fighting there… boring.

You run with the zerg cap some stuff get some points and log out. Does not feel like fun.

sPvP is a bit better there. At least you get in less than 15 minutes results and a win and it feels more intense. You helped to win and it feels good. You don’t get that feeling in WvW with the matches being long and the points ticking slowly while you only play a few hours and not 24/7 the whole week.

It don’t feels like you have accomplished something if you are one of the 50+ people in your zerg capping 1 keep that gets capped back later when you are offline and is not that important.

What I prefered would be something between sPvP and WvW. Something like bigger sPvP maps with other game modi and like 16 vs 16 players and own objectives that could include WvW stuff(there is already that crappy boring sPvP map with the Trebuchet siege). That could also be interesting for bigger guilds to fight there against each other.

Leave the zerg then? I play with organised guild combat 9/10, not a 30+ man guild either. A 15ish man guild which just goes around and looks for the best fights (while trying to help the server at the same time), tests itself and we do try to stay away from our blob as much as possible and operate as a single entity. My point being, you don’t have to zerg or even cap stuff if your don’t want to. there may be other methods for you to find fun.

Other than fun (if you enjoy skill lag in huge zergs or occasional crashes), there really isn’t much incentive. The WxP really doesn’t add much, hardly any gold to be made (compared to PvE) and very unforgiving unless you jump into the whole turtle/doom zerg meta (which is extremely boring).

I’d recommend WvW to those looking to do small ops stuff (small skirmishes, camp flipping, etc). Much more fun with a few friends instead of a doom zerg.

I agree that at times it’s fun, but wouldn’t it be nice to, you know, have ‘nice things’? I wouldn’t mind a fiery sword or some cultural T3 armour, or yknow, something that looked nice – unfortunately anything with a nice skin is generally over my 3g price limit, which is okay sometimes as I make about that much in a month, but yknow…

What I’m saying is I’d like some nice gear kittenit! Those PvErs toting their legends dies suck kittens at combat but they still look more kitten than me :/ except when I’m standing alone in the middle of an invader-corpse littered floor (when I say littered I mean 5)

etrigan.4213:

jimdove.5704:

there is non incentive, this game died for me when i realised theres no purpose of RVR and the maps are far too small, they still havent put in a WARHAMMER like warband feature either?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-camelot-unchained-demo-shows-500-characters-fighting-at-90-fps-on-a-2011-macbook-pro

basically DAOC 2. Hope to see lots of daoc/war ppl on there in a year or 2.

Looking at that demo they have a long way to go.

500 AI casually walking on the screen, occasionally swinging…using the same two character models over and over. Doesn’t really look like much of a battle to me.

As a tech demo it looks very very dated. I understand the project is in infant mode, but were looking at at least 3 more years of development.

You clearly didn’t watch the video or perhaps you didn’t listen. He said they are 500 individually instanced models all with variations. In an early tech demo with high tries on the models is very very impressive. You would also be impressed by this if you had any clue about engine and model creation and implementation.

Please remember this order before posting: eyes and ears, brain then mouth.

Open the wvw panel, look at the bottom, you get buffs in certain areas of the game. thats it, aswell as karma for gear and badges for gear.

Brannoncyll.1978:

All I want is for the ability to get decent exotics in a reasonable amount of time while playing WvW only. I really hate the idea of having to grind boring dungeons to be competitive; this is why neither of my 2 level 80 characters have anything more than exotic weapons (bought off the TP). The recent patch made a step in the right direction, but it still takes far more time to gear up in WvW than it does in PvE. I don’t see any logical reason why this should be the case.

Exotics are easy to get via WvW
I obtained all but my leggings for my Mes shortly after hitting lvl 80 which I saved up badges to get as they were the only piece I couldn’t get with the stats I was after through Karma.

warspite.2735:

WvW, like Catista points out… is a GAME. It’s a week long competition to have the highest score. In between, it’s a bunch of smaller games to have the highest PPT while your group is active, and within that it is a series of skirmish games, generally over an objective (like a keep). Yes, it’s against other players, rather than NPCs (mostly). But, again as Catista points out, standing in a field slugging it out with your opponents is of ZERO VALUE to winning the game.

Actually, if you meet the enemy in the field and beat them down there, they are not doing damage to your gate or walls, therefore your Tower, Keep, Castle is in less risk of being taken.

Open field warfare has been a long used tactic, Battles from the walls of wherever you are trying to defend should always be a last defense.

For those who don’t like being part of the “zerg”, have you even tried to get a small group to go hunting with you?
If the zerg is attacking one spot, it is more than likely that the majority of defenders are there trying to shut them down. A 5, 10, 15 man force can run around the map causing havoc with other points.
Camps are a great way to harass as without them the towers, keep, garrisons can’t get supplies to defend and repair.
Try this, PVE’rs usually have to spam or go to the GW2 dungeon group site to find people to run with. Nothing says you cannot do this to find like minded people on your server to find WvW groups to run with.
Know how much fun it is to set up mass siege in a Camp and have your enemy try to take it back? A few people with siege can hold a camp for a good time if you are coordinated.

Bottom line though, if you don’t like zerg balls, don’t join them. Put some effort into it and gather up a group of your own.

If you require material incentive to enter WvW, it’s probably not the place for you anyway.

Mapping requirements are something else entirely. If I see you solo-running about in some garbage armor, and you start scrambling for that nearest POI or Vista when you see me near. I will likely assume you’re some poor lost and frightened Puggle and keep an eye on you, but you’ll likely live so long as you’re respectful. Despite common belief, we’re not all mouth-frothing zerglings.

Daemonne.5018:

For those who don’t like being part of the “zerg”, have you even tried to get a small group to go hunting with you?

Then you go in a small group and cap something and still later it gets capped back. Then I can just play sPvP and have wins and have fun if I want the small groups.

KStudios.2850:

Mapping requirements are something else entirely. If I see you solo-running about in some garbage armor, and you start scrambling for that nearest POI or Vista when you see me near.

I remember months ago when I made my first char… now that was a bit fun about the WvW maps to go in Borderlands to the north mid vista near some supply camp(enemy is north and not your home borderlands) because I needed that vista. Then killed some enemies because only 1 came maybe they also needed the vista.

But only killing is boring. And capping is not that interesting since it is easy to capture it back. Maybe if stuff was way stronger it would be more interesting(currently usually in my server at the end of a match only the keep near the own spawn is upgraded fully with 1700/1700 supplies and nothing happening there and all the other stuff is being capped and then capped back by enemy back and forth… that is not interesting to me).

Edit: Also there is no incentive to defend stuff for a long time. You can just leave it for the enemy to cap and try to be faster – if you cap 2 other things of the same type you get more points.

Maybe they should make it that every position increases it’s points if you defend it for a long time.

For example stone mist if you capture it at day 1 and manage to defend it completely until the end of the match it should give 10 times the points as usual at the last day. If someone captures it after few days it should reset and only give the usual points(35 I think it is).