WvW Server ranking system isn't fair
Don’t think of the server rating scheme as a rank system. It mostly is determined by population and activity in wvw. In a perfect world, servers wouldn’t have to move ranks at all. However, people quit or stop playing so the servers rank has to be adjusted.
Hymnosi – Lv80 Engineer
Commander of Phantom Core [CORE] on Borlis Pass
Commander of Phantom Core [CORE] on Borlis Pass
This Ranking is seen Rated sports/competitions like Chess, Magic: The Gathering, ET AL…
As you play matches you take your opponent’s rating when you win and give up your rating when you lose. In order to keep your rating or gain rating you have to compete against opponents with the same or higher rating.
If you are at the top of the rating (Grandmaster) and you play against master ranks, You MUST win by a large margin, you can lose rating especially if it is a close match.
So in order to stay on top you cannot relax for a minute or you will landslide in rating.
(edited by Undermine.1678)
Apparently it’s a similar rating system to what is used in chess rankings. It measures performance with an added calculations of accuracy. Points on their own do not = performance. It’s possible to win with a worse rated performance than previously or loose with a better rated performance than previously.
Something like that anyway. the math is insane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system
Piken Square forever
So in order to stay on top you cannot relax for a minute or you will landslide in rating.
None of the top servers are ‘relaxing’, many win their bracket and still lose a LOT of points against the servers they beat, but end up behind them after the next match making, pretty sure this system doesn’t exist in any popular sports/e-sports.
So in order to stay on top you cannot relax for a minute or you will landslide in rating.
None of the top servers are ‘relaxing’, many win their bracket and still lose a LOT of points against the servers they beat, but end up behind them after the next match making, pretty sure this system doesn’t exist in any popular sports/e-sports.
This isn’t a sport, nor an esport for that matter. The rating system is completely fine the way it is.
Ascosia – Thief
Isles of Janthir
[Hel]Helioz
Isles of Janthir
[Hel]Helioz
This isn’t a sport, nor an esport for that matter. The rating system is completely fine the way it is.
Careful, You don’t want ArenaNet hearing you say it’s not an esport.
Looks like another week of absolute decimation and just plain out nothing fun on FC again. With the rate things are going, when FC does the best on weekend nights, we will likely have +30ish points for the remainder of the week. How fun. Hope the real 2 servers enjoy their World vs World vs Insects.
Holy
Sharks With Lazers [PEW]
Sharks With Lazers [PEW]
I’m not a big fan of the ranking system either. What should happen is the 3rd place team in each tier should be sent down the lower bracket.
So you’d have the 3rd place team in tier 1 move down to tier 2 and the 1st place team in tier 2 move to tier 1.
Right now you could potentially have servers collude with one an other to stay in a certain tier just by allowing themselves to win opposite weeks.
As an example look at the tier 1 of Europe. Last week Vizunah Square ended up 1st Desolation 2nd and Arborstone 2rd now because of the current system if Arborstone ends up 1st, Desolation 2nd and Vizunah Square 3rd then the three will remain in tier 1 and the no one in tier 2 will get the opportunity to advance. This could go on for weeks and hurt WvW.
Dark Knightfire – Thief | Kal Knightfire – Warrior | Spoiler Knightfire – Ranger
Simply, not true…
Yes there will be a ceiling cap in rating because there are no more brackets beyond and the leaders tend to be 200 Rating over the 4 5 and 6
However, Elona Reach is a 1906. Unfortunately their opposition is 1764 and 1732. In this event if Elona Reach wins by like 150K-200K they could gain 15-25 Rating from both worlds putting them at upto 1956. At 1956 you will advance to Rank 2 or 3.
Should Elona Reach lose, they will lose hard because there is 142-174 disparity in rank of the opponents, so if you lose hard you will drop to Rank 6 or 7 merely because of the point difference.
A close win may result in deduction of rank because you Elona Reach is like a Team that is 10-1 fighting teams that are 6-5/7-4 You are expected to win and win big based on your rating.
Which makes the system fair and just… You have to play at the level of expectation if you don’t, you don’t deserve the rank and the loss in rating reflects that.
If this was any true and ‘fair’ as you call it, this system would be used commonly, which isn’t the case. In all popular pvp games you gain points when you win, here you lose regardless how many points you score (unless you control the entire map, and that’s absurd).
There is no motivation in putting effort in holding your server on top, simply because you can’t, and that’s where the problem is.
Last match up SBI vs BG vs JQ; this week…same servers. WTF! I’m blown away… only 3 realms competing for #1?
They removed the Orbs…. they need to reset scores to zero… and start over as if this is Launch. Any major change to Wv3 should get the same.
Not saying SBI wouldn’t still be grouped this way… but it would provide more justification going forward.
Simply, not true…
Yes there will be a ceiling cap in rating because there are no more brackets beyond and the leaders tend to be 200 Rating over the 4 5 and 6
However, Elona Reach is a 1906. Unfortunately their opposition is 1764 and 1732. In this event if Elona Reach wins by like 150K-200K they could gain 15-25 Rating from both worlds putting them at upto 1956. At 1956 you will advance to Rank 2 or 3.
Should Elona Reach lose, they will lose hard because there is 142-174 disparity in rank of the opponents, so if you lose hard you will drop to Rank 6 or 7 merely because of the point difference.
A close win may result in deduction of rank because you Elona Reach is like a Team that is 10-1 fighting teams that are 6-5/7-4 You are expected to win and win big based on your rating.
Which makes the system fair and just… You have to play at the level of expectation if you don’t, you don’t deserve the rank and the loss in rating reflects that.
Actually it is true.
Even if Elona Reach does get 15 -25 points Desolation and Arborstone would have to get no points this week for Elona to move up and that’s not going to happen. If each of the other two tier 1 servers get the same 15-25 points then they will still be that much ahead of Elona Reach.
This can continue for weeks which is why the current system needs to be changed.
Dark Knightfire – Thief | Kal Knightfire – Warrior | Spoiler Knightfire – Ranger
If this was any true and ‘fair’ as you call it, this system would be used commonly, which isn’t the case. In all popular pvp games you gain points when you win, here you lose regardless how many points you score (unless you control the entire map, and that’s absurd).
There is no motivation in putting effort in holding your server on top, simply because you can’t, and that’s where the problem is.
This type of system is used all the time it even gets used in wow with their rankings in an arena or a rated bg you can win but still lose rankings
the rankings you say that servers lose is just like the ratings you can lose if you win by a small margin if you play a weaker team. The points you win in this game which are the equivelent to the points you are talking about are the bonuses you get each week from earning points in WvW So in actual fact the system is used a lot or a variation of it and just like in other games the ranking points is completely different to the points you earn in game
Dorps i played WoW for about 7 years, arena and rbgs, i don’t know what you are talking about. Even if you played against a team 200 points lower than your own, you didn’t lose points after winning the game. Sometimes you gained only 1-4 points, but you never lost any if you won. Only if loss or tie.
Dorps i played WoW for about 7 years, arena and rbgs, i don’t know what you are talking about. Even if you played against a team 200 points lower than your own, you didn’t lose points after winning the game. Sometimes you gained only 1-4 points, but you never lost any if you won. Only if loss or tie.
And that is why the system for ranking in guild wars is better because it takes into account if you performed to your expected lvl if you don’t perform to what the rankings are expecting you to do you lose points. If you preform to what you are expected you stay lvl and if you out perform you go up rankings points. Where as as you said with the ELO system that you are advicating if you under perform but still win you should go up rankings how is that fair on servers that do better then they were expected to do but still lose and end up going down rankings cause they came up against a much higher ranked team and did a better job then they were expected to and yet still lose points.
They don’t it has to do with other servers getting direct points from taking sentries or killing dolyaks.
Gankfest™ ~ <PRX> ~ JQ
80 ~ Thief/Guardian
80 ~ Thief/Guardian
When you say ‘If you perform to what you are expected you stay lvl’ is wrong, ‘cause you actually lose ground here even when you outplay the 2 other servers in your bracket.
’If you out perform you go up’ … you can’t ‘out perform’ in order to go up, you would have to have a point income of at least 500 to ‘go up’ at the end of the week, and that’s impossible, it has nothing to do with YOUR servers performance, the 2 other servers would have to be asleep day and night.
And as for the argument ‘you go up when you under perform’, 1-4 points was nothing in wow, have you actually ever played, ‘cause i’m doubting. You gained a rediculous low amount of points when you got matched up against a team much lower ranked than your own, it had no impact on the ranking at the end of the day. You were actually just hoping for the fight to be over asap and get matched up against a team with ranking equal to yours, in order to gain points. And btw, a team that had much lower ranking did not even lose ANY points.
Last match up SBI vs BG vs JQ; this week…same servers. WTF! I’m blown away… only 3 realms competing for #1?
They removed the Orbs…. they need to reset scores to zero… and start over as if this is Launch. Any major change to Wv3 should get the same.
Not saying SBI wouldn’t still be grouped this way… but it would provide more justification going forward.
Every single one of your posts is about undermining SBI. I’m sorry you have such a hard crush on us.
When you say ‘If you perform to what you are expected you stay lvl’ is wrong, ‘cause you actually lose ground here even when you outplay the 2 other servers in your bracket.
’If you out perform you go up’ … you can’t ‘out perform’ in order to go up, you would have to have a point income of at least 500 to ‘go up’ at the end of the week, and that’s impossible, it has nothing to do with YOUR servers performance, the 2 other servers would have to be asleep day and night.And as for the argument ‘you go up when you under perform’, 1-4 points was nothing in wow, have you actually ever played, ‘cause i’m doubting. You gained a rediculous low amount of points when you got matched up against a team much lower ranked than your own, it had no impact on the ranking at the end of the day. You were actually just hoping for the fight to be over asap and get matched up against a team with ranking equal to yours, in order to gain points. And btw, a team that had much lower ranking did not even lose ANY points.
Quick question what server are you on
lets take an random number of 200 the goal is to get to that figure every one starts at 0 if you fight some one with a equal points if you win you get 2 points if you lose you lose 2 point. if you fight a person with more points and you win you get 4 points and if you lose you lose a point if you fight a person with less points then you if you win you get a point but if you lose you lose 4 points
who deserves the 200 points more out of these two ppl.
Person A that after his first game only fought people with the lowest total points and won every game yes it took him 199 games to get to 200 points but he was never tested along the way.
Person B only fought people that were on more points them him self and he lost 5 matches along the way to 200 points.
Who would be more likely to win out of a person that has been battle tested and played against people that according to the ranking system were better then him or the person that got to 200 by beating up on players that were worst then him
That is the system you want that no matter how poor the ppl you are playing against if you win you should move up ranking points.
No the system that is in place atm is it looks at your expected score given your ranking compares it to the expected score of the people you are playing would be given there rating and that is what tells you if you move up down or stay the same ranking if compared to the expected results if you do better you go up if you do worse you move down if you do as expected you stay the same the issue is at this stage there is a large gap between the servers in each group apart from tier 1 and the bottom tier so normally the server that is on top has to totally destroy the other two servers because the rankings difference is so great once the rankings even out you will start seeing that if you win you will move up rankings points and if they are close matches every one will stay around the same rankings points
and just to prove what you said in your first post is false here is a link that proves that if you are first you don’t have to even win for your ranking to go up
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/3#NA
look at the north american match ups and go to the 10 11 12 match up sea of sorrows lost that match up but still went up in ranking points why because we scored more then we were expected to score because it was an even match up at the start of the week
(edited by Dorps.8610)
Dorps buddy, the answer to your quick question is a quick answer. I play on a european server and im going bed now.
The line you wrote about me wanting a system where ‘if you win you should move up ranking points’ tells me that you missunderstand all of my previous posts. I have never asked to gain points when you are ranked 1st, i only said you shouldn’t lose points when you are 1st and beat both other server that you are playing against in your bracket. I think that’s that perfectly understandable, if you disagree so be it, i’m not going to argue with you anymore, like i said it’s bedtime for me, cya around.
Anet hasn’t wanted WvW as an e-sport since they consider it more “casual”. That is what they are trying to adjust sPvP for. IMO the Keg brawl would be a better e-sport for GW2.
Peralta | 80 Human Necromancer | Pain Train Choo [Choo] | Sanctum of Rall
The system is designed to deliver ranks in a closed environment. As of now with free transfers, this environment is nowhere to be closed. Servers move up and down faster than the ranking system can adjust, because simple transfers of 2 or 3 mid sized guilds cause trouble in entire brackets.
My advice: Don’t bother. Just do not care. As long as transfers are a cheap possibility to escape “unfair” matchups or “find better servers”, there will be inbalances the ranking system simply can’t fix. The way I see it, WvWvW is in an advanced testing phase, just like we experienced with 24h machtups.
ArenaNet should reset the ranks as soon as free transfer are gone. And then we can see how everybody ends up.