Guild Wars 2

When I bought GW2 I thought I’d spend my time playing WvW but the more I play the more I realize it is probably the worst form of PvP I’v ever seen. The way it is now it’s just a game of who’s bigger.. literally. The bigger your server, the bigger your zergs, the easier your win.

I play on a mid sized server.. sometimes we face servers that we just roll over because they can’t compete, other servers do just the same to us because they outnumber us by who knows how much.

where is the challenge/fun with this? It’s mindless and boring… unless you happen to like sitting in a keep aoe bombing the same group for hours on end, or mindlessly zerging places.

Why not grant a buff to overwhelmed servers, (nothing stupidly over the top like WoW did with wintergrasp lmao) but something to balance out the massive indifference. Maybe someway to counter zergs effectively, like smarter npcs that spawn in keeps, the larger the group the more effective they become. They already use that system for world events, they scale with the number of players participating.

So far this game has not really been what I thought it would be :/ most fun I have is dungeons and they are getting boring very fast. I hope they make new content or fix some of this older broken stuff soon.

I guess there is a large number of people that enjoy the zerg gameplay. I dont really understand it but small group people are definitely the minority.

Im always cornfused by this. WvW is always a case of who is bigger. It is just the way WvW works, in any game I have ever played.

I mean even in the upper tiers where people have to wait to get on their map of choice so everything is even, people still complain, I was in a group of 10 and your group of 20 ruined it! You mean zerg.

Yes there is a place for smaller groups in WvW, but in the end it is usually going to be about who is bigger.

Although If i have to fight Kain again, Imma sure as hell gonna complain about it. I got tired of the dancing 10 minutes into that one.

I’m trying to remember which game it was that had 3-way fights like this where the underpopulated side would get npc reinforcements. I think it was Aion…? Or maybe RF online. I wonder if that would work in GW2, probably not though.

I think the only truly balanced approach would be to scale NPC health based on how large the player differential is on each Borderland.

For example if the enemy massively outnumbers my server on Eternal Battlegrounds, our NPCs should be dramatically hard to kill but their NPCs should be much easier to kill. But if we are roughly evenly matched then NPCs would obviously receive no buff to health or damage.

I think it would make more sense as far as balance goes simply because if my home borderlands has a queue and there are no enemies on our map but they own a garrison, it should require more manpower to take the garrison.

I enjoy it for what it is. Playing a thief or elementalist is fun in WvW. I try not to compare it vs DAOC. Its better that way Smaller groups have their place. You just have no chance vs a zerg.

Maps need to be larger and more spread out objectives. Most modern MMOs (post WoW) try to allow you to get back to the action to fast. Would people sit for 15 minutes like we did in old frontiers DAoC to port back to a BL after a wipe nowadays?

Yep, WvW needs huge improvements if ANet want to keep it’s player base. I myself haven’t played in a couple weeks and I used to sink a lot of time into the game.

It’s the same thing over and over and what for? So you can do it all again next week?

It hasn’t lived up the the hype IMO. Such potential, but they just couldn’t deliver. Shame really.

Well i don’t know about the rest of you, but i am tired of ANet matching my server against some overpopulated server within hours our whole wvw map is overran . I gonna wait and see a few weeks then ill put this game right where it belongs —-next to my fail swg dusty box ….

LOCO.1785:

Yep, WvW needs huge improvements if ANet want to keep it’s player base. I myself haven’t played in a couple weeks and I used to sink a lot of time into the game.

It’s the same thing over and over and what for? So you can do it all again next week?

It hasn’t lived up the the hype IMO. Such potential, but they just couldn’t deliver. Shame really.

WvW is still fun but I do agree that it can be quite redundant. If ANet could make it so that borderlands become randomized each week it would keep things fresh and exciting. You’d have to come up with new strategies as the map would change each week.

March is pretty much make/break for a lot of people, given Anet shut down a lot of actually reasonably objective criticism (mixed in with some unfair abuse of course) from their customers about the Feb wvw patch being delayed until then…
I can’t see a lot of full-time wvw players being very ‘reasonably sympathetic’ if its grind-fest junk like their pve content seems to be.

Like many failed MMO’s over the years they implode rapidly when chunks of the communities go and all it really takes is a couple of bad patches, people see most their friends list gone and 2 people still repping their guild, ‘pop’ an its all over.
Unfortunately, most MMO companies in the last 7 years don’t actually seem to care once the boxes are shipped and their game dies in 6 months.

I have also been on both sides of either dominating or getting dominated.
The problem i see with wvw is too much emphasis on score and who wins rather than good fights.

Zerg vs zerg or small teams…all are fun as long as u get to fight.which is getting rare these days.. Its moee about coverage and sitting in ur tower ro accumulate points which is the boring part.

There should be a swvwvw like a spvp with constant number balance, if server has more numbers queue those who are trying to enter untill the numbers are balanced.
Minimum like 15 per map so they just dont leave after caping all map.

They should do this to the original wvwvw or make a new swvwvw or a version of swvwvw for guilds to compete with ranking

zidia.3675:

Maps need to be larger and more spread out objectives. Most modern MMOs (post WoW) try to allow you to get back to the action to fast. Would people sit for 15 minutes like we did in old frontiers DAoC to port back to a BL after a wipe nowadays?

daoc
d a o c
D A O C
D A O C

problem with GW2 is Anet didn’t rip/copy enough from the daoc model to make their w3 functional. and the parts where they chose to differ from DAoC have proven rather unsuccesfull imho.

oh, did i mention ‘camelot unleashed’ ?

I agree, haven’t played in months :/

I made a topic a while ago stating how terrible GW2 Pvp is and it hasn’t improved in those 4 months at all, it’s actually gone backwards.

Tried playing on my own last week (as everyone i know quit in the first month) and oh my lord is culling terrible, I have genuinly NEVER expected such a game breaking issue in PVP. Having a zerg of 50 so players spawn on top of my and kill everyone around me before they have even loaded on my screen is terrible.

To tell you the truth i’ve given up on this game, it has no staying power at all, the PVE is either broken as hell filled with bugs and glitches or mindnumbingly boring. The Pvp is the most repetitive stale thing I have ever experienced. And I only post on these forums ever few weeks because I actually like the game and want it to be better but with each week it becomes worse and worse and If the March patch makes things worse then i’ll be gone for good, “b2p” or not.

Camelot unchained:p

People always copy the wrong parts of daoc. Even old daoc developers….war hammer online….

I can’t believe a game so focused on zerging has something as game breaking as culling. Its Benny hill levels of rediculousness.

Been playing on t1 and have also seen lower and mid tier matchups as well. In all honesty, it’s really hard to make a difference as a small group. The WvW mechanics pretty much encourages a zerg to win attitude. Most, if not, ALL objectives and situations can be solved by overwhelming force. This in effect causes matchups to be won over with population coverage. Meaning, the match up has already been decided before it even began.

So how about dividing WvW objectives between ones with large scale battles and ones that can only be done with small gang warfare. Put game mechanics that would discourage having more people in a certain objective to gain points for their servers and give the lesser populated server a winning chance. Something like i,e., placing FotM-like obstacles (without npcs) that would inhibit a side from having too many people in an objective/room on some parts of the map.

I think this may help with not just the server with the lesser population but also reduce culling issues as there will be less people on screen. That’s just my take on it.

I think if we stick with the conquest game type the only solution will be to increase map size and number of objectives. As it stands one big zergball can cover a map. More objectives further apart will force zergs to split up to cap multiple objectives.

The meta game for WvW is just so stale to me at this point. If Server X has this tower, you take it by doing ____, to counter that you do this _, if they use that counter, you counter their counter with _. By this point we all know the meta siege placements and their counters, and usually the only way to overcome these strategies is to brute force things with numbers..other wise you get into boring multi-hour keep defenses, with elementalists blocking treb shots and blah blah blah.

The community aspect of my guild is the only reason I even log into this game anymore, but honestly, I don’t see myself playing much more GW2 without things being shaken up quite a bit….Not sure if I can make it to the “March” update to see what happens.

Acelerion.6820:

Camelot unchained:p

People always copy the wrong parts of daoc. Even old daoc developers….war hammer online….

looking forward to camelot unchained as well unless Anet drastically overhauls their WvW system to DAOC’s relic system (getting rid of the points system, and rastically increasing map size), I don’t see WvW surviving much longer.

zidia.3675:

Maps need to be larger and more spread out objectives. Most modern MMOs (post WoW) try to allow you to get back to the action to fast. Would people sit for 15 minutes like we did in old frontiers DAoC to port back to a BL after a wipe nowadays?

amagad !!!!!

i forgot to put on my necky !!!

/cry

:p

“To tell you the truth i’ve given up on this game, it has no staying power at all […] I only post on these forums ever few weeks because I actually like the game and want it to be better but with each week it becomes worse and worse and If the March patch makes things worse then i’ll be gone for good, “b2p” or not.”

This. I’ve already taken my leave, dont believe in Anet anymore. But it is essentially this: They are doing their best to destroy the game, with every patch a bit more. I really wonder what happened that made them lose the awesome direction of vanilla GW2 so fast and completely. Vertical progression everywhere by now and more coming, stupid daily grinding for Laurels, culling is ridiculous (how can you kitten up something thats been working for 10 years already in various games?). As a wvw player i have given up hopeing for fixes anyways.. nightcapping, orbs, everything boiling down to coverage, stealth, portal bombing.. its just sad and has nothing much to do with pvp imho.

and then theres stuff like the WvW reset that luckily got cancelled the last minute due to community shouting WTF… my judgement is just this: Sorry, you guys dont have the skills / brains (anymore? i cant believe it was just luck..) to make this awesome – im better off searching elsewhere for a good game.

Agree and disagree. WvW is super fun and for me, it is the end game content.

Where I do agree is with the outmanned buffs. I’ve posted this several times, but servers that are outmanned should receive power/prec/vit/toughness buffs. The amount of the buff would depend on how outnumbered they were.

Acelerion.6820:

I guess there is a large number of people that enjoy the zerg gameplay. I dont really understand it but small group people are definitely the minority.

Isn’t that what sPvP and tPvP is for? Small group vs small group?

I’ve already posted a number of posts about how WvW is lacking depth in so many ways. Most notably it fails to respect YOUR impact on the battlefield. Everything just keeps resetting again and again. The next time you join WvW, you respawn in a secure area and have to do everything again. Your achievements are not worth anything.

Sure, for sPvP it is great to have everyone on equal footing and not to be able to take a bonus into the next fight, but WvW is supposed to have a peristent effect. The only persistent thing in WvW is the point tally, beyond that there is nothing but swapping objectives. No battlefield progression, no campaign progression, no server progression.

If ANet want to add depth to WvW by adding scaling skills, stat boosts etc then they are doing it wrong. A better/improved/more sophisticated reward system only cures the symptoms, not the sickness.

Open world PvP comes with zergs. This isn’t true open world but it’s close. Part of the fun is dealing with the zergs as a smaller group. Killing the sickly zebra at the back of the pack and getting away, making yourself visible around a corner and “pulling” a few random zerglings to your group, stuff like that.

Hopefully the WvW update will add incentives in the form of titles/rewards for smaller group play though.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Acelerion.6820:

I guess there is a large number of people that enjoy the zerg gameplay. I dont really understand it but small group people are definitely the minority.

Isn’t that what sPvP and tPvP is for? Small group vs small group?

People keep saying this but it just isn’t a replacement for open world PvP. The conquest game type is terrible and discourages actual PvP. If you ever have an even numbered fight on a node one side screwed up. You can have an entire match where no one dies you just push people in and out of nodes.

If they release a tdm style format many of us will go there but it won’t make up for the spontaneity and unpredictability of open world fighting. Its fun to take on larger numbers. Its fun to have three way fights. Its not fun to fight nothing but 30 man zerg balls that Rex faster than you can down people or Wilson off to the nearest keep so they can hump you with arrow carts.

Of course part of the fun is the tactics going zerg vs zerg or just going up against a zerg but when it comes to the fight we are like fighting blindfolded hitting a pinata mashing AOE buttons, it’s not that enjoyable when you can’t even see them. Everyone abuses mass Invisibility now aswell no matter what culling changes are made.
Add to the fact we have AOE limits and we are due a AOE nerf even though I agree that some AOE is overpowered.
Also the lag on Eternal BG and the times it crashes what is going on?
I still plan to play wvw but less than usual as the flaws stand out, repetition kicks in and the lack of incentives grow with the lack of updates and fixes.

DAOC was okay at best, it as actually the first game that carbearized PVP by putting it in a specific zone, granted mythic later added mordred but by that time it was too late IMO. if You want to follow an awesome seige based PVP game and mimic what they did look to shadowbane. Smaller numbers in that game beat zergs easily if you called out targets had the proper siege spec builds and coordination; not just a buncha CC + PBAOE junk like daoc did.

Saying doc was nothing but cc+pbaoe discards everything after the first expansion. It wasent perfect but everything since then has been a step backward.

Folk.2093:

DAOC was okay at best, it as actually the first game that carbearized PVP by putting it in a specific zone, granted mythic later added mordred but by that time it was too late IMO. if You want to follow an awesome seige based PVP game and mimic what they did look to shadowbane. Smaller numbers in that game beat zergs easily if you called out targets had the proper siege spec builds and coordination; not just a buncha CC + PBAOE junk like daoc did.

who needs CC if you have triple MoC + purge + pbaoe/caoe junks and some spreadheal monkeys… oh wait, i’m shooting myself in the foot now :p

And it’s all players fault for going all to the same server… meh something has to be done now, or ESO will take all wvwvw players from gw2

This is actually kind of a refreshing perspective on wvw from a newer player. Always appreciate reading different points of view from someone who picks up the game.

Also, stories like this can give insight into what newer players want when they head into different zones.

The worst thing about this type of PVP is that the it reduces the importance of role diversity among the classes. Basically you need lots of AOE damage. Lots.

That’s mostly how zergs work. In other games (like Shadowbane, for example), classes like scouts which didn’t do much damage and no AOE were invaluable for large scale PvP because they could, well, scout. And good ones could solo most classes. In GW2 WvW there isn’t much need for scouts (aka roamers) because the map tells us where the action is.

Instituting changes that encouraged people spread out over the map more, making the supply runs/pack animals worth more, and even provide some bonus to encourage engagement of multiple targets at once would discourage the zerg. Anything to encourage more free-form pvp with small groups, scouting parties, rewarding stealth play, etc might help.

Acelerion.6820:

Camelot unchained:p

People always copy the wrong parts of daoc. Even old daoc developers….war hammer online….

oops, yes, unchained, not unleashed. i’m looking forward to zerg the kitten out of people (again) in the name of lincoln, erm, i mean arthur erm constantine, erm oh, well, you know what i mean !

;)

It has gotten boring. Numbers win games— you have 24/7 coverage and run with full ques? you win. Its as simple as that.

As a result, Im watching my former tier 1 server implode—- guilds are mass transfering to other servers. Some wont be able to afford it right away or will be unwilling to pay for a transfer— so they will probably just give up and quit. Im seeing the same thing across multiple servers right now…. the end of free transfers might mean more money for anet for awhile—- but its coming at the cost of players……. players who wont be buying gems or store purchases ever again… and when players start to leave an mmo—- its very very difficult for that game to ever recover.

I hope anet figures things out soon.

Thresher.3049:

March is pretty much make/break for a lot of people

If it’s not already to late. Core players that used to make up WvW have left, if the March updates are siginifcant and relevant perhaps we can get 50% back? Many of these players are already looking to other MMO’s.

Overall WvW is getting old: hacks, exploits, invisible enemies, scoring, zerging (please add to this list). Where the most significant updates were Orbs (removed) and Breakout Events, I mean were 6 months in, come on.

@Fatum

Sounds like you wan’t SPvP. This is PvP where the numbers are always even and predictable.

WvW by its nature is unpredictable. Sometimes your the zerger sometimes the zergee. Sometimes you run solo and get good solo fights and some times not. Some times you can get a small elite band together that moves fast avoiding the enemy zerg while taking objectives and taking out smaller groups they encounter.

Most people that complain about the zerg have only themselves to blame. Choose to run with the zerg and zerging is all you will experience. Of course choosing to play outside of a zerg takes more effort and involves more risk. To each their own…