Guild Wars 2

Kazim.2043:

Devinchi.2756:

The real problem is that most of you complaining just give up when put in a tight spot, but you’ll never get out of that spot unless you do something about it. Oceanics do rack up more points during their time because of population differences. But it’s not because other timezones CAN’T play; it’s because they WON’T play. Not until primetime are enough people willing to even try to change the tide of battle. By then, it’s already too late.

Unfortunately we have lives just as Oceanics have. You’re asking something that most of us can not do every day

Most of us don’t have to, just enough of us do. In the large scope of things, the amount of people allowed in WvW is a small fraction of a server’s total population. The amount of people allowed on a single map is even smaller. It’s very possible to have a large enough force to counteract a night raid, even if the map isn’t full for your team. It’s not unreasonable to believe that there are 50 people out there willing to do WvW at non-primetime, which is enough to cut your nighttime losses sufficiently. The fact that in my previously stated experience that there was even a queue for another map (this was around roughly 11 AM Central time here in the US) shows plenty of people were online who could have made a difference, but didn’t want to fight the tougher fight.

If your opponent’s night population can beat your’s, and their primetime population is good enough to keep you from catching up, then they deserve to win.

CharliePrince.2071:

To ArenaNET’s RamonDomke: thank you but really people just love to cry. There is NOTHING WRONG with night capping. People just need to DEAL WITH IT.

I come from Isle of Janthir. Do you realize (besides Sea of Sorrows) that we are in the opposite situation? do people realize that we have an 11 hour dead zone (noon to 11pm EST, right in the middle of NA primetime) that we are absolutely weakest at?!

how do you propose we fix this?! do you see us crying for all you evil NA players which we simply cannot fight?!

and I’m NA myself! imagine how hard it is for me to play during primetime severely outmanned

look, i’m giving you all a difference in perspective

you cry about night capping

but you never imagine what it’s like for us servers whose weakest link are NA primetime hours

This, I’m from Sea of Sorrows and it’s even worse for us then it is for them and it’s bad for them too. If you want to reduce rewards for hard work in off peak NA time, we want reduced rewards for NA peak time. Oh wait, we’re at the same situation, nevermind …

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

Still doesn’t account for a double team scenario during primetime hours which can severely cripple a server during prime point gain doesn kitten

You cant just change soemthing with out taking everything else into consideration.

Double teaming is not the subject of this topic.

If you’re unhappy of double-teaming start a new thread.
If you’re trying to disrupt the discussion here please don’t do that as it’s not helping at all.

It seems you see a strong correlation between double-teaming and subject of this topic. However I don’t share your opinion on that.

I see it as the same.

Primary complaint is…. at night we have hardly anyone on compared to xxx server that has 2x more people.

DT is 2x people vs the server being double teamed is it not?

Same concept in my eyes.

Your talking about changing a major part of WvWvW without accounting for the big picture.

How do you compensate players that only play at night? What their efforts shouldn’t count as much as daytime players? Not selfish at all m8.

You also assume that theres very little on at night, which is also not true. I have no way to back that statement up, nor do you have anyway to back up the statement that a 2 of the 3 servers are empty at night thus allowing one server to just cap everything uncontested which isn’t true.

Oh and on HoD the primetime crew is the same crew that takes everything back between 9pm-1-2am. By that time we are up 500+ PPT if we were down to begin with… then oceanics take over and maintain the lead if not make it larger.

It is not a servers fault that the other two servers log off at 9pm… it is not a servers fault that if after a patch or reset the other server DOESN"T LOG BACK IN.

Cal.1985:

Not directly – but they suggest to have lower points gain and other things like that? So why on earth you feel that for the period from 0 to10 GMT and the period from 10 to 18 GMT people should earn different points???? (hours are completly random and irrelivent)

Time is irrelevant just as you said. It’s the participation of population.

I think it sounds pretty valid for 200 man to be able to gain more points than 40 man independent of time. Am I wrong?

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time. Nobody should be asking for them to be penalized by lowering the scores at those times, that’s just not right. Also, this garbage about them having no lives or jobs is ridiculous and insulting. Despite some of the things I’ve read in these forums, I’ve personally seen Australians wearing shoes. When it is daytime in NA it is night time down there and vice versa. No matter where you live on our planet, when you are sleeping, someone, someplace, is going about their day doing what they do.

WvWvW was designed to have three competing servers for a reason; this was to remove the possibility of one dominating server from being so dominating that they could never be beaten. The idea was that the two lesser-populated servers could both focus the assets of the dominating server to such a degree that their dominance could be mitigated. The problem is that this “balance check” is evidently not in fact enough to counter a server with great North American and Oceanic presence. The evidence of this is that two of the best NA servers (both with lesser Oceanic presence) have been unable to counter the point gains of the number 1 server that accumulate Monday through Thursday while most in North America sleep.

The obvious solution for the losing servers would be to recruit more Oceanic folks and convince them to transfer, transfer over to their server, or pick a lower population server and have everyone involved transfer there. The unfortunate thing about this solution is that there are painful barriers such as the transferring guilds losing all the upgrades they put in place. There is also a queue time issue; the higher the population gets on a server the greater the queue times get. This is to be expected of course, but the times get so great (4 to 6 hours in some cases) that it is just not worth it to transfer just to find that you cannot play WvWvW all. The solution to the queue time issue is of course…to transfer to another server. The answer to every problem with Guild Wars 2 is fast becoming, “Transfer to another server.”

Maybe a solution to the queue time issue is to raise the caps in WvWvW but given the rendering and lag issues during large scale battles we are seeing, I think it would make matters worse. Anet could do more optimization, or upgrade servers, but that comes at a cost and they are likely to be resistant to this idea. Anet keeps inferring that the solution is in our hands and we can work it out by transferring. No matter how you slice it, it appears the solution does not lie in the hands of the player base; it lies in the hands of Anet.

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

Darkeh.4539:

Night capping is lame, and it should not reward the same amount of points.
People that say other wise, are the people that have to resort to these “lame” messure’s to win or get any points at all.

Yes WvW is and should be 24/7 but the amount of points should not be the same.

Why? I am reading all post and I dont see the point.

X server has 2 times the players of Y server duing 2 to 6 AM (whatever time zone). X servers caps more things and gets more points. WHAT is wrong with that? Oh I forgot Y server got kicked by X server between 22:00 PM and 01:00 AM (same whatever time zone) and now X server feels that it is unfair to Y server to take things when they are asleep. Hm yes it is not fair. Shoud Anet do something about it – NO. It is your server population problem not broken game mechanic!!!

Give them a few years and they MIGHT get it right, but lets get real here, if WvW was so important to Anet it wouldn`t have been so simplistic and such an OBVIOUS sandbox thrown out there for players to break stuff…

Wildman has it right, there is no incentive for Anet to do anything major to the WvW, Ive played MMO with maps that are 24/7 (WWIIonline) and guess what balancing player base IS THE MOST IMPORTANT part of it all but ONLY IF the game mechanics are well taught of and adjusted to the players who PAY to play a game.

The fact there is no monthly fee for GW2 tells me outright nothing will be done, people who are complaining will just leave the community and all perception of complaining will leave with them.

After all, there are 100s, no 1000s of games out there, Anet should have stuck to crafting and puzzle jumping, they obviously had no clue how to BETA a WvW game like the one they pretended to create. Hey its all about the marketing, they had me believing… LOL GJ Anet…

Cloud.7613:

CharliePrince.2071:

To ArenaNET’s RamonDomke: thank you but really people just love to cry. There is NOTHING WRONG with night capping. People just need to DEAL WITH IT.

I come from Isle of Janthir. Do you realize (besides Sea of Sorrows) that we are in the opposite situation? do people realize that we have an 11 hour dead zone (noon to 11pm EST, right in the middle of NA primetime) that we are absolutely weakest at?!

how do you propose we fix this?! do you see us crying for all you evil NA players which we simply cannot fight?!

and I’m NA myself! imagine how hard it is for me to play during primetime severely outmanned

look, i’m giving you all a difference in perspective

you cry about night capping

but you never imagine what it’s like for us servers whose weakest link are NA primetime hours

This, I’m from Sea of Sorrows and it’s even worse for us then it is for them and it’s bad for them too. If you want to reduce rewards for hard work in off peak NA time, we want reduced rewards for NA peak time. Oh wait, we’re at the same situation, nevermind …

this ^

people are so narrow-minded that they only think of NA primetime

there are servers out there (like Janthir) WHO HAVE NEVER WON A RESET

do you all realize that?! until this past week

Isle of Janthir ALWAYS played with a +85 deficit after reset.. do we complain?!

no, we win

…..nothing wrong with night capping because I can easily flip that around and say “there’s a problem with NA players playing during primetime! stop it!!”

Namu.5712:

I see it as the same.

Primary complaint is…. at night we have hardly anyone on compared to xxx server that has 2x more people.

DT is 2x people vs the server being double teamed is it not?

Same concept in my eyes.

Your talking about changing a major part of WvWvW without accounting for the big picture.

I got your point however there are serious differences. Double-Teaming is something which all WvW participants can do. But “persistent night capping” is not, due to Real Life priorities.

Seriously I’m not talking fair play. I just want to state that, current scoring system alienating a serious amount of player base, causing motivation loss. They feel like whatever they can do (keeping real life into consideration) does not have effect on overall score. When a player comes to such a realization, you can’t expect him continue competition.

This might eventually end up with severe loss on WvW population. I might be wrong, but I don’t think so. WvW will loose a major part of it’s competitive player base, which can not wake up early in the morning 4-5 days per week.

Eventually I fear WvW population will reduce to “complete hard-core players” accumulated in 2-3 servers which can provide 7/24 with addition of casuals doing it just for fun.

Pendragon.8735:

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

May I ask you what server you’re on and what servers you’ve faced? Because I’m from Sea of Sorrows and I have 3 Isle of Janthir friends that will back me up on this, The pure American servers are in no way inactive. You act as if NO one is there during Australian prime time, I got news for you, every server has just as many people as ours. I’m not playing the blame game like you, but WvWvW more before you comment on this situation.

Kazim.2043:

Cal.1985:

Not directly – but they suggest to have lower points gain and other things like that? So why on earth you feel that for the period from 0 to10 GMT and the period from 10 to 18 GMT people should earn different points???? (hours are completly random and irrelivent)

Time is irrelevant just as you said. It’s the participation of population.

I think it sounds pretty valid for 200 man to be able to gain more points than 40 man independent of time. Isn kitten

No, no one should limit 40 random people as they paid the same money and playing the same game. With the difference they are not playing during prime time.

The solution you are seeking for is to gain points per kills or something like that. WHICH will never happen as several issues arise:

1. Randoms will be called with so much kitten names.
2. Elitists guild will break any kind of server community due to the above.
3. If you die – all will point a finger at you and saying you gave em points. And name calling will start.

Pendragon.8735:

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

Completely agreed. Sorry if any one of my posts offended Oceanic players, it was not my intention. I believe they have the same right to play. And they should fight in even grounds.

A system scaling score with current population is fair for all sides. If oceanics can bring full man on a map they will get full score. There is nothing unfair on that. And they will sleep better knowing NA population can not erase whatever they achieved on their primetime easily.

Namu.5712:

I see it as the same.

Primary complaint is…. at night we have hardly anyone on compared to xxx server that has 2x more people.

DT is 2x people vs the server being double teamed is it not?

Same concept in my eyes.

The difference in the double teaming scenario is that it’s an intrinsically unstable situation. Double teaming against the third server only makes sense up until the point where you’re hurting your own chance to win by not attacking the “allied” server. It’s a completely fair assessment to expect double teaming to not last a whole matchup, at least if people on the two allied servers have any brain.

The population and scoring unbalance, on the other hand, is hardly going to undergo any significant change during a matchup.

Also, there are proposed solutions out there who do not depend upon time of the day but upon numbers of enemies present. If you want a very simple example:

- scoring is 1/3 of normal scoring if the enemy population on the map is between 0-50 and you have at least 1.5x their numbers.
- for every enemy over 50 scoring increases until reaching 100% if you have full (166 players) enemy presence.
- as soon as your numbers are below 1.5X the enemy numbers, your scoring goes back to 100%.

These are just random numbers I’ve tossed out but it’s an example of how you can reduce the strength of the “alarm-clock” strategy while still allowing for it to have an impact on the final outcome.

Also, regarding the “it’s not fair to oceanic/asian/martian players”: how is the current system fair to the peak time players, considering their impact on the game is essentially non-existent? And does it really make sense to make the game unfair to the majority to protect the minority?

Not that talking over this will change anything since the design decision has already been taken obviously. It just amazes me how all the recent attempts at mass pvp which I’ve witnessed (AoC Shrines of Bori, SWTOR Ilum, and now GW2 WvW) have all failed miserably for the exact same reason: none of the designers stopped to consider implementing a reward system taking into account actual pvp activity into it, resulting in the system rapidly devolving into something which had nothing to do with pvp (PvNodes for AoC, PvNoone with cap switching for Ilum, and now PvDoor for GW2).

Cal.1985:

No, no one should limit 40 random people as they paid the same money and playing the same game. With the difference they are not playing during prime time.

It’s not limiting 40 random people. They gain the same gold/karma and other benefits, even more as they have less resistance.

Score contribution per man will be the same. So they still contribute to score as much as their counterparts playing the game on a more crowded time. Perhaps even more as they will have easier time capturing the whole map.

Cal.1985:

The solution you are seeking for is to gain points per kills or something like that. WHICH will never happen as several issues arise:

1. Randoms will be called with so much kitten names.
2. Elitists guild will break any kind of server community due to the above.
3. If you die – all will point a finger at you and saying you gave em points. And name calling will start.

I like WvW as it has objectives. This brings more strategic variety. If it turns to Kill Based, it will be more about killing zerg/clashes. I don’t like that idea. I’m not looking for it.

What I want is to score to represent the amount of players contributed on it.

You have the extremists of both sides:
It’s WAR! Suck it up! More tears for me! I’m on an organized server, you ain’t, go get it done.
vs
It’s not fair. We can’t win. Kick non peak folks off.

Then you actually have some moderate people that aren’t trying to make it fair, but do believe that working to make tweaks to keep folks “engaged” in the match so that participation stays high is a positive thing.

We all want WvW. We all want opponents.
Both extreme sides lose by not coming to the middle table for discussion.
There can be a WIN WIN here, even if there’s always a 1rst 2nd and 3rd in a WvWvW match.

MagnusLL.8473:

It just amazes me how all the recent attempts at mass pvp which I’ve witnessed (AoC Shrines of Bori, SWTOR Ilum, and now GW2 WvW) have all failed miserably for the exact same reason: none of the designers stopped to consider implementing a reward system taking into account actual pvp activity into it, resulting in the system rapidly devolving into something which had nothing to do with pvp (PvNodes for AoC, PvNoone with cap switching for Ilum, and now PvDoor for GW2).

I’ve been through AoC and SWTOR.

dude if this fails also I’m done with gaming seriously, or perhaps I’ll go back to EVE once more

Kazim.2043:

Pendragon.8735:

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

Completely agreed. Sorry if any one of my posts offended Oceanic players, it was not my intention. I believe they have the same right to play. And they should fight in even grounds.

A system scaling score with current population is fair for all sides. If oceanics can bring full man on a map they will get full score. There is nothing unfair on that. And they will sleep better knowing NA population can not erase whatever they achieved on their primetime easily.

Actually, by this you’re actually killing Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir, which makes your opinion null and void as a way of helping the situation.

Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir have a STRONG oceanic presence, and a medium NA presence. If by your rules, they’ve already lost. They would no longer remain on this server to WvWvW, they will have to spread out to other servers, we’ll no longer have a strong group to play with at that time and GW2 AND WvWvW is pointless for us. You will just make mid tier servers die and strong servers stronger.

dtfauss.5729:

It’s not fair. We can’t win. Kick non peak folks off.

I’m 100% sure we have no one on that extreme. It’s an image other extremists willingly or unwillingly created.

There are no posts claiming we should kick non-peak folks off. We’re just trying to say scoring system gives more weight to off-time, and it needs a bit of balance.

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

I see it as the same.

Primary complaint is…. at night we have hardly anyone on compared to xxx server that has 2x more people.

DT is 2x people vs the server being double teamed is it not?

Same concept in my eyes.

Your talking about changing a major part of WvWvW without accounting for the big picture.

I got your point however there are serious differences. Double-Teaming is something which all WvW participants can do. But “persistent night capping” is not, due to Real Life priorities.

Seriously I’m not talking fair play. I just want to state that, current scoring system alienating a serious amount of player base, causing motivation loss. They feel like whatever they can do (keeping real life into consideration) does not have effect on overall score. When a player comes to such a realization, you can’t expect him continue competition.

This might eventually end up with severe loss on WvW population. I might be wrong, but I don’t think so. WvW will loose a major part of it’s competitive player base, which can not wake up early in the morning 4-5 days per week.

Eventually I fear WvW population will reduce to “complete hard-core players” accumulated in 2-3 servers which can provide 7/24 with addition of casuals doing it just for fun.

I already view WvWvW as a hardcore thing, the pvp’ers that put in the most time and have less RL obligations will be on top vs the guy that plays from 7pm to 9pm then goes to bed.

WvWvW in my opinion is not for a casual player, if they are going to take it seriously and want to win all the time. Just not gonna happen. Primetime is fun. I dont see all the fuss over a score.

I see the point about waking up and not even being able to leave your spawn or even have your keep, that would be annoying but wouldn’t be like omg I quit, would be a okay guys we got work to do lets get this stuff taken back. There is fun to be had playing the underdog clawing your way out of a corner, that gives you a feeling of accomplishment when you know your outnumbered out gunned, when you and 12 of your buddy’s pushed back a larger force and reclaimed what was lost. Or held off a force 3x bigger then yours for hours. Those are memory makers.

I just dont view nightcapping the same I guess. I also see it as unfair to night players if you change it, so that its not the same as other times of the day.

Cloud.7613:

Actually, by this you’re actually killing Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir, which makes your opinion null and void as a way of helping the situation.

Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir have a STRONG oceanic presence, and a medium NA presence. If by your rules, they’ve already lost. They would no longer remain on this server to WvWvW, they will have to spread out to other servers, we’ll no longer have a strong group to play with at that time and GW2 AND WvWvW is pointless for us. You will just make mid tier servers die and strong servers stronger.

I don’t understand this. If that is the case, whenever you face a strong NA server, that server will start to get less points on their peak time. Actually you still have more advantage here. As you have a above average population on your off-time where most NA servers don’t.

Cloud.7613:

Pendragon.8735:

Temakura.1539:

The Oceanic folks are doing nothing wrong, they are in fact not “night-capping”, they are playing during their prime time.

This part is right. They are doing nothing wrong, and should not be insulted in various ways.

At the same, taking over an entire map with hardly any resistance should not be worth the same points, as it doing it vs full server caps, and when that means it takes many hours longer and is many times harder to achieve.

And this goes for anytime, regardless who or where the players are from. With a points scaling system, the Oceanic population servers would also benefit, as they claim a ‘dead zone’ during NA daytime. Then in this deadtime, while ‘they’ are severely outmanned, their opponents wold earn less points in return. Even steven.

May I ask you what server you’re on and what servers you’ve faced? Because I’m from Sea of Sorrows and I have 3 Isle of Janthir friends that will back me up on this, The pure American servers are in no way inactive. You act as if NO one is there during Australian prime time, I got news for you, every server has just as many people as ours. I’m not playing the blame game like you, but WvWvW more before you comment on this situation.

I’m from Yak’s Bend, and yes we played Janthir a while back and I find their trying to defend these easy wins disgraceful. I play at night (NA) often, and I was there watching their entire zerg run roughshod over a map we had mostly held, with at best, us having 5-7 defenders at our towers and keeps, while they steamrolled them with 20 or 30 people. We had an outmanned buff for all the hours I was on.

Sorry, that is just not well earned captures, and should not be worth the same ticks to hold such a map against such little opposition as that as when you are doing it 30 vs 30 or full vs full. This is supposed to be player vs player, not win the matchup largely with player vs environment.

Also, sometimes these servers think they are facing real resistance because they see a fair number at one location defending them. What they don’t realize is that is because almost every player on for their opponent has rushed to that location. So if they are fighting a battle say with 30 against an opponent 20 men, then the rest of the map is largely void of defense for the low nighttime side, yet the Oceanics still have dozens more in the rest of the map taking camps, towers, etc, that are not defended. It’s just a garbage scoring system right now.

And if people from these servers were being honest and claiming its fair because their own side is weak in the NA day, then they would be all for a scaling system, since the gains they made when they were on would not be so easily lost when their server was weak itself.

That they won’t speak up for a fair system, just tells me they simply are defending individual greed gain (Karma, Exp, Gold, & of course WvW points) over the good of the game and a real quality competitive game mode. When the rubber meets the road too many players just want what is best for them as a lone player, over what would make a better game.

If I’m playing on a side that has a full capped server and we are playing against an undermanned opponent (say a Oceanic that has weak NA presence) I would have no problem having our points scaled down 25% or whatever, because of this. You would still be making great progress for your server, it just would not decide the whole thing practically.

The fact that there is an outmanned buff also tells you that Anet knew there would be times when servers didn’t have equal forces…. just food for thought that this wasn’t an oversight but planned.

While I agree improvements can be made to WvW as with any human-generated design, if you’re looking for ultimate “balance”, you shouldn’t be in WvW… Structured PvP exists for a reason.

The moment you have “open” anything, the idea of “balance” goes out the window. ArenaNet actually does a pretty decent job of helping make this not such a huge factor by instituting a 500 person limit for one server to be in WvW. This means that if Server A has 5x Server B’s population, it will still be quite easy for both sides to cap out at 500 people in WvW (and happens all the time even with low-pop servers).

Not every engagement is going to be even. If that’s what you’re looking for, GW2 does offer that in Structured PvP. Everyone has the same size party, same gear, same level. It will even match up versus your earned rank, so you don’t pit ridiculously skilled players against newbies 24/7. To coincide this, all classes can perform all roles. Can’t get any more even than that.

WvW is for those who prefer a more militant take to PvP. People who don’t care about “balance”, because we understand any conflict with the word “open” in it doesn’t care about balance – only victory. Outnumbering your enemy is a viable tactic. Capping behind them is a viable tactic. Camping popular areas to destroy your enemy is a viable tactic. Capturing when your enemy is asleep and/or not prepared is a viable tactic.

If it results in the defeat of your enemy, however that is achieved, it is a viable WvW tactic.

Sorrow’s Furnace has fared pretty well in WvW to date, but we still saw room for improvement. 6 guilds so far have joined together (including my own) to form a hierarchy alliance, where we can coordinate on a massive scale with voice chat, and more flock to us regularly now. By doing this, we are able to counter many of the aforementioned tactics. We are no longer a mindless zerg. We are able to enjoy richly the true purpose of WvW.

If you cannot, then I recommend growing a pair, show some initiative, and form something similar on your own server. You’ll find improvement.

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

Actually, by this you’re actually killing Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir, which makes your opinion null and void as a way of helping the situation.

Sea of Sorrows and Isle of Janthir have a STRONG oceanic presence, and a medium NA presence. If by your rules, they’ve already lost. They would no longer remain on this server to WvWvW, they will have to spread out to other servers, we’ll no longer have a strong group to play with at that time and GW2 AND WvWvW is pointless for us. You will just make mid tier servers die and strong servers stronger.

I don’t understand this. If that is the case, whenever you face a strong NA server, that server will start to get less points on their peak time. Actually you still have more advantage here. As you have a above average population on your off-time where most NA servers don’t.

No we wont? Because our NA players will get demolished. People don’t understand how many Americans are up at Australian to early morning time and are actually playing. We don’t roll the competition, Sea of Sorrow’s actually loses a lot of the time to Americans, what do you know? we lose on all fronts. You want to make it worse?

Namu.5712:

I just dont view nightcapping the same I guess. I also see it as unfair to night players if you change it, so that its not the same as other times of the day.

To be honest my concerns are not about fairness or ranking of my server. My server might never be top tier and I’m OK with that.

What scares me that soon a fair percentage of my guild’s WvW player base will realize their efforts don’t have significant effect on score and this will demotivate them. I’ll have harder time to organize them, to rally them for better tactics or group organizations/ compositions, overall they won’t have the motivation to get better. Eventually some will leave the game some will turn to tPvP.

I really don’t want that happen. The problem is in current scoring system the strongest (and perhaps only) valid tactic to win is alarm-clocking. And it leaves not much room for other improvements a guild can achieve to have an effect on score.

Cloud.7613:

No we wont? Because our NA players will get demolished. People don’t understand how many Americans are up at Australian to early morning time and are actually playing. We don’t roll the competition, Sea of Sorrow’s actually loses a lot of the time to Americans, what do you know? we lose on all fronts. You want to make it worse?

Sea Of Sorrows at the ranking 8. It doesn’t look like a server that loose on all fronts.

A couple servers can defend against off peak capping, because a few huge alliances rolled on a couple servers and these are die-hard PVP’ers who either have the time, or inclination, to schedule their lives around a video game, and play at times when most normal people are sleeping.

But there aren’t enough players like that to populate every server. Nor are these die-hard folks going to spread out in order to make off peak time more fair for all servers.

That doesn’t mean every server below the top 3 should just automatically lose their matchup against off peak servers, due to that no matter what they do when their majority plays, no matter how good they are, they can never make up for the points an opponent gains while holding 4 maps with weak resistance for half the day, every day.

Points just piling up at locations that are rarely or never being attacked for hours. Diminishing returns should kick on these locations.

Kazim.2043:

Cloud.7613:

No we wont? Because our NA players will get demolished. People don’t understand how many Americans are up at Australian to early morning time and are actually playing. We don’t roll the competition, Sea of Sorrow’s actually loses a lot of the time to Americans, what do you know? we lose on all fronts. You want to make it worse?

Sea Of Sorrows at the ranking 8. It doesn’t look like a server that loose on all fronts.

Because we, like the top ranking server, has a team that is formidable at off-peak time? There’s no way of solving this problem which is fair for all.

Kazim.2043:

Namu.5712:

I just dont view nightcapping the same I guess. I also see it as unfair to night players if you change it, so that its not the same as other times of the day.

To be honest my concerns are not about fairness or ranking of my server. My server might never be top tier and I’m OK with that.

What scares me that soon a fair percentage of my guild’s WvW player base will realize their efforts don’t have significant effect on score and this will demotivate them. I’ll have harder time to organize them, to rally them for better tactics or group organizations/ compositions, overall they won’t have the motivation to get better. Eventually some will leave the game some will turn to tPvP.

I really don’t want that happen. The problem is in current scoring system the strongest (and perhaps only) valid tactic to win is alarm-clocking. And it leaves not much room for other improvements a guild can achieve to have an effect on score.

Which is valid because ALOT of people just want to win, and anything they view as lessening that or taking away their hard work, of course has a negative effect of wanting to continue to do something for nothing. Risk vs reward. I will say this, the night HoD took a 3rd place to first over night, ET/SBI were not on later that night at all compared to other nights. They just didn’t que up at all, neither did most of HoD what was the point. The next night though they were out in force and there was pvp all night until early morning and into the next day. So the people are there.

Will it kill wvwvw who knows….. It might it might not, things might balance out, things might not…. the 24/7 servers may all end up in the same bracket thus the problem would be solved pretty much. while the servers without a 24/7 presence could face off during the day and die down at night…. but all it takes is a couple people to cap, which still poses a threat…

Don’t know.

I play for the pvp, if people want to cap empty keeps and camps well… power to them I guess.

Enerjak.2475:

…

Good suggestions mate and great initiative. However as you get better organized and move to higher ranks, you’ll realize the strongest tactic is alarm-clocking or using time zones in this current scoring system. And all the points you gained by your superior organization, shared teamspeak will get erased by 30 man pugs using /team chat when you sleep.

If they don’t want to balance this in any other way, then they should make regional servers. Which should have been done from the beginning.

Stick the servers that have similar prime times together, and have them play each other. That would make the most sense.

Until other servers organize, fund and coordinate together, those who are already doing this will continue to win. Anet made the game and set the conditions, either adapt to them or quit playing. It is not the developers place to bring you a blanky and dumb down the competition so you can feel good today. Get stronger and win if it’s that important to you.

Meram.4092:

Until other servers organize, fund and coordinate together, those who are already doing this will continue to win. Anet made the game and set the conditions, either adapt to them or quit playing. It is not the developers place to bring you a blanky and dumb down the competition so you can feel good today. Get stronger and win if it’s that important to you.

From what we’ve seen adaptation period doesn’t work as intended. And if devs won’t help us on that, most probably it’s gonna be the “leave” option for a decent amount of player base.

Most of the people opposed to 24/7 WvW just need to discover sPvP. sPvP is set up for balanced matches, WvW is a sandbox environment specifically designed for “anything goes”. Quit asking ANet to turn WvW into sPvP, it already exists.

Meram.4092:

Until other servers organize, fund and coordinate together, those who are already doing this will continue to win.

By ‘already doing this’ you mean just having people that live in another part of the world play in a time that is more lucrative simply due to location. LOL, yeah more servers should ‘start doing that’.

Only problem is most of these players rolled on 1 of about 3 servers, and they don’t want to move. They want to play with their friends and countrymen. There are no more people to recruit to ‘start doing this’. If anything, the game is losing population, as players go back to Pandaland, and many are quitting as they are finding the game not fixing its problems, including the one under discussion.

We can bury our heads in the sand all we want, but how fun will it be if this becomes Warhammer 2. A failed game and RvR experience.

what most aren’t realizing is effecting the scoring eventually will become a double edged sword. at some point YOUR server will be the “nightcappers” and will have limited returns on your scoring.

etsmith.9025:

what most aren’t realizing is effecting the scoring eventually will become a double edged sword. at some point YOUR server will be the “nightcappers” and will have limited returns on your scoring.

Bring it on.

What you aren’t realizing is that fair minded people are OK with having scaling if they are winning too easy. Not everyone is arguing from a selfish point of view. But rather a competitive one.

etsmith.9025:

what most aren’t realizing is effecting the scoring eventually will become a double edged sword. at some point YOUR server will be the “nightcappers” and will have limited returns on your scoring.

That’s fine, it’s all about mechanics that encourage the greatest number of players to play… thereby a win for us all. Right now, folks are giving up with WvW after a night capping run or due to pop imbalance. Either they disengage from the game or they add to queues on Winning servers. An imbalance is being fed.

Felix.3028:

Most of the people opposed to 24/7 WvW just need to discover sPvP. sPvP is set up for balanced matches, WvW is a sandbox environment specifically designed for “anything goes”. Quit asking ANet to turn WvW into sPvP, it already exists.

There are not 40vs40 matches on sPvP. If such a time comes, we “enjoying mass pvp” can leave WvW free and focus on sPvP.

Anet says the players have the solution in front of them .

You literally have euros and NA screaming about lack of coverage outside their ‘prime’ in the same thread.

You literally have FS, IoJ, and SoS as well as SBI and ET in the SAME thread, agreeing with each other and set on nothing else but winning number 1, but not taking the next simplest step. Several servers with already functional organization/alliances.

The next step is so intuitive, so simple.

Seriously, does Anet have to grab and distribute the vent info themselves and coordinate a meeting time with a nice 30min reminder before conference time? Do they have to REPOST the coverage data and then show snapshots of server populations at relative ‘off peak’ times to reassure PvE is also possible (SBI is often higher than HoD)?

How many people upset have said ONE WORD towards recruiting the poster under them?

etsmith.9025:

what most aren’t realizing is effecting the scoring eventually will become a double edged sword. at some point YOUR server will be the “nightcappers” and will have limited returns on your scoring.

We’re OK with that. I believe no one promoting scaling idea have issue with this. As current scoring problem demotivates winners as much as losers. I’m not getting online on WvW much until Tuesday, even we’re winning with a certain amount due to our better night population.

Fed.8594:

That’s fine, it’s all about mechanics that encourage the greatest number of players to play… thereby a win for us all. Right now, folks are giving up with WvW after a night capping run or due to pop imbalance. Either they disengage from the game or they add to queues on Winning servers. An imbalance is being fed.

Good, let them. There are relatively low caps on how many players can get into the battlegrounds, so reducing the amount of people who WvW based on whether they are winning or losing leads to a higher chance for people who enjoy PvP regardless of the circumstances to participate. And that will lead to better matches.

Also, 30 million threads about night-capping but hardly any threads about players who only queue for EB?

Virchow,

It is not possible, people have tried and it’s not happening. There seem to be a bunch of reasons.

Lag, no population to play with (unless there’s a mass transfer), friends/guildies not interested in transferring, … If it was that easy it would’ve happened already.

What I fail to see is why the population can’t be balanced out? If server A has only 20 people in then server B & C can’t have more then 20 people in. Issue fixed. Populations will spread out unless they just want to sit in queue.

What i basicly dont understand is, why the hell there are points and public rankings when anet wants to keep night-farm working?

why there should be a ladder at all?

somebody argued, that otherwise low populated servers got outfarmed even at primetime.

but i ask you why not take a hidden ranking then? and why just dont show any points at all?
then people would play for fun or for the bonus maybe.

Do a ladder and bring even compatitive conditions wether its night or day (easy to do when set the points gained in relation with the allieds and opponents online) or dont bring a ladder and just bring a random battlefield, so people can join and are free from compatitive thoughts.

If that is going to be the position until further notice for WvW then I better not see people getting banned for doing things cross realm. It better be an and acceptable practice to go to other servers, spy and direct troops to the wrong locations with commander tags, waste siege on towers, burn supply and cross realm to all hell. Things that Anet have said are bannable offense should no longer be labled so.

Please someone fix this forum so we can quote properly

@ Virchow

I already made a long post about this issue. Let me post it here again

I’m a member of a EU guild with 100+ members. We’re pretty well organized and bring regular 10-50 man groups to WvW and generally change the tides of the map when we do. I was thinking to move to an NA server like SBI to even the odds against HoD. And in theory it sound great.

However in practice our management and member-base don’t want it, and it’s not about influence or upgrades. We can re-gain all the upgrades in a fairly short time. Problems are:

1. They don’t want to play on cross-Atlantic latency in such a game where latency matters. Especially on sPvP and WvW

2. They don’t want to be online on a under-populated time for PvE and sPvP

3. As that server is marked as NA, they have worries about or long term community size. As it will be really harder to find new EU players on NA servers to fill places of players getting bored of game.

4. No one is certain of future of WvW with this trend. It might be we’re gonna be the only ones on WvW in 3 months at late night times, and we’ll be forced to transfer back to an EU server.

To be honest, making a region based infrastructure with servers and WvW rankings divided to regions, and expecting to be a 7/24 game is a lost cause.

Also we don’t want to fix the solution for ANet as we’re paying customers not developers.

I hope this answers your question

For those who are still looking to transfer, Ehmry Bay has plenty of room, low queue times, and a strong US West Coast presence. We welcome you with open arms and yes, we night-cap at times.

At the end of the day the purpose of the game is to be entertaining. If I can get on WvW and have a good time it is really irrelevant who’s leading because, and let’s just be honest here, the rewards for leading in WvW are meaningless.

waeren.9743:

Virchow,

It is not possible, people have tried and it’s not happening. There seem to be a bunch of reasons.

Lag, no population to play with (unless there’s a mass transfer), friends/guildies not interested in transferring, … If it was that easy it would’ve happened already.

What I fail to see is why the population can’t be balanced out? If server A has only 20 people in then server B & C can’t have more then 20 people in. Issue fixed. Populations will spread out unless they just want to sit in queue.

Thisw would not work. Here again you are given am opportunity yo exploit. huge pvp servers can get their GM’s totgether, create a godmode pvp team and control how many are able to enter against them.

Kazim.2043:

Enerjak.2475:

…

Good suggestions mate and great initiative. However as you get better organized and move to higher ranks, you’ll realize the strongest tactic is alarm-clocking or using time zones in this current scoring system. And all the points you gained by your superior organization, shared teamspeak will get erased by 30 man pugs using /team chat when you sleep.

That is acceptable. That would mean we were defeated. We’d accept that, and appropriate counters for it.

Besides… who says we cannot do the same to them? Each server without exception has late-nighters, people with odd schedules, etc. There is no 1 server doing this. That said, ours can retaliate in much the same fashion, perhaps even meet them and wipe them in the attempt.

I will not blame mechanics for my own failure, the failure of my guild, the failure of my alliance, or the failure of my server to win. Victory is always possible, no matter the circumstance. The fog of war may obscure it sometimes, but it is there.

If our enemy has found a way to get a 1-up on us, then we’ll just have to try that much harder to get back at them.