Guild Wars 2

They once thought about getting thief DPS atthe same level than others.

But the thiefs cried and cried and cried so much that they didn’t do it.

They got the highest DPS, they got stealth, they got clones, they can transport a mile away, but according to ANEt they are not overpowered.

It’s really sad

Tallis.5607:

They once thought about getting thief DPS atthe same level than others.

But the thiefs cried and cried and cried so much that they didn’t do it.

They got the highest DPS, they got stealth, they got clones, they can transport a mile away, but according to ANEt they are not overpowered.

It’s really sad

Oh and don’t forget they’re the squishiest too…. and clones? Tell me about how you brought dual professions back from gw1?

Funny how thieves tell ppl to “learn to play”, when in fact 99% of them just backstabs and spams heartseeker.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Why do you think so many people enjoy playing a useless profession?

Because people like to be wannabe gankers and get easy kills. It probably is hilarious for a while find that green arrow and one hit him laika pro and then repeat “i have skillz, ihave skillz, i have skillz”.

Junkpile.7439:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Why do you think so many people enjoy playing a useless profession?

Because people like to be wannabe gankers and get easy kills. It probably is hilarious for a while find that green arrow and one hit him laika pro and then repeat “i have skillz, ihave skillz, i have skillz”.

And also because people like dark shadow ninja assassins.

Deniara Devious.3948:

bleach.9074:

Play in T1? Thieves are almost useless.

Play in T8? Thieves are OP.

Thieves will probably get buffed because ANET doesn’t care about T8 and balances with only T1 in mind.

Probably around 50% of roamers are thieves.

Go in WvWvW use Fraps and show me your 50% Thieves. I am in four guild (2x pvp guilds with150+ online players) Thieves are barely 5% of the population of this guilds.

But of course you’re right WvWvW is full of Thiefs sarcasm

Evilek.5690:

Deniara Devious.3948:

bleach.9074:

Play in T1? Thieves are almost useless.

Play in T8? Thieves are OP.

Thieves will probably get buffed because ANET doesn’t care about T8 and balances with only T1 in mind.

Probably around 50% of roamers are thieves.

Go in WvWvW use Fraps and show me your 50% Thieves. I am in four guild (2x pvp guilds with150+ online players) Thieves are barely 5% of the population of this guilds.

But of course you’re right WvWvW is full of Thiefs sarcasm

so rest of the people are wrong because the 4 guilds that you are in make up 5% of the guild roster? Tunnel vision much? LoL.

Junkpile.7439:

Deniara Devious.3948:

Why do you think so many people enjoy playing a useless profession?

Because people like to be wannabe gankers and get easy kills. It probably is hilarious for a while find that green arrow and one hit him laika pro and then repeat “i have skillz, ihave skillz, i have skillz”.

LOL. That is true.

I once changed my main character’s build and went all zerker. I had no defense whatsoever, but it was fun to kill enemies in <3 seconds. I didn’t use stealth and I did that only for a day though. Now I run on balanced gear & build to have more survivability.

rchu.8945:

Evilek.5690:

Deniara Devious.3948:

bleach.9074:

Play in T1? Thieves are almost useless.

Play in T8? Thieves are OP.

Thieves will probably get buffed because ANET doesn’t care about T8 and balances with only T1 in mind.

Probably around 50% of roamers are thieves.

Go in WvWvW use Fraps and show me your 50% Thieves. I am in four guild (2x pvp guilds with150+ online players) Thieves are barely 5% of the population of this guilds.

But of course you’re right WvWvW is full of Thiefs sarcasm

so rest of the people are wrong because the 4 guilds that you are in make up 5% of the guild roster? Tunnel vision much? LoL.

show us 50% thief dood

SS or bust

Lastnight I was fighting against a thief with two other players, so 3 vs 1. After about a minute he stealthed and ran away (like they usually do). Of course I started chasing after him thinking my friends were right behind me. Little did I know I got destroyed after his random stealth spike bomb upon me. He somehow obtained all his health back in a few seconds.

WvWvW are full of Thieves, yes. A large part of my opponents are Thieves. I run a build dedicated in slaughtering them and showing little care in 1v1ing anyone else during the time I roam.

Now, I’d like to say something on the matter. I’ve been fighting a S/D Thief for around 20min, which were resumed in quick engage-disengages. Thief would shadowstep to me and engage, I raise the Gear Shield to absorb the large portion of the attack + deny a CnD and attempt to destroy the Thief up with hard CC and burst, he’d shadowstep back to the location even when CC’d and run away with 10% health, all the time.

I’ve been trying to not attack and let him continue his aggression for his Sword-based shadowstep to reset and dodges to be burnt, and when counter-attacking, he’d use the utility version of the shadowstep and I wouldn’t hear from him for a minute. It kept going on, and on, and on, until until 50+ of my allies passed by during the moment I dropped the supply crate on his face.

From these very actions, people have different points of view, many, including myself, would say that if the Thief didn’t have so much mobility I’d have blasted him in the sky. Others would just say that so much mobility and stealth is grossly overpowered. I understand that an Engineer is amongst the biggest threats to a Thief, but I’d say that their current abilities is a necessary evil. I’d worry more about Mesmers than Thieves.

Why is everyone trying to balance a thife in 1v1? It should be able to slaughter most people 1v1 that what it is designed to do. It has little else to offer in wvw

MrForz.1953:

From these very actions, people have different points of view, many, including myself, would say that if the Thief didn’t have so much mobility I’d have blasted him in the sky. Others would just say that so much mobility and stealth is grossly overpowered. I understand that an Engineer is amongst the biggest threats to a Thief, but I’d say that their current abilities is a necessary evil. I’d worry more about Mesmers than Thieves.

cool story bro.

I still think they are grossly overpowered, but hey that’s my personal opinion.

BulletNG.7069:

Lastnight I was fighting against a thief with two other players, so 3 vs 1. After about a minute he stealthed and ran away (like they usually do). Of course I started chasing after him thinking my friends were right behind me. Little did I know I got destroyed after his random stealth spike bomb upon me. He somehow obtained all his health back in a few seconds.

Its not hard to figure it out how the thief get his health back

> They didn’t have much to begin with in the first place

On the same skill level there’s no class that loses in a fair 1on1 against a thief. Important though, you might not win it, because the thief gets away with stealth. The Thief is not OP, he is just annoying.

There are barely any good thieves in WvW. Most of them use Heartseeker as movement skill, never hit their backstab and think that shadow refuge equals invulnerability. They’re lucky though that the WvW Player is just looking to join the next zerg and plays that way.

I’m still curious what the anti-stealth mechanics will look like. I’m guessing that is the reasoning behind reverting the 4 second reveal nerf which was a lazy nerf anyway.

ChapDev.7650:

To be honest I find Blind is a better ability to use on a downed person pre-finisher as you can still be hit in stealth, knockdown ect but you cannot be if they’re blind and miss their downed abilities though when you think about it Ele’s have the best ability to down you without you being able to fight back by using Mist Form to become Invulnerable.

eles can’t finish in mist form anymore....

rchu.8945:

cool story bro.

I still think they are grossly overpowered, but hey that’s my personal opinion.

And thus, you shouldn’t try to shove that down everyone’s throat especially when imbued with ignorance, thank you.

Here’s the thing with thieves in WvW. They flat out are no fun to fight against in open WvW due to their mobility. Since stealth doesn’t limit your run speed or ability to shadow step to other places, it gives too much of an advantage to the stealth ability. With these two abilities alone, the thief has full control of every fight he plays in while the defender can only wait for the thief to choose if he wishes to continue the fight or wants to reset it. Since there isn’t a hard counter to stealth (Not counting the AC) or any negative effect, most people just feel helpless. This is where people complain about the thief and I personally can understand it.

For those saying that the thief burst damage is too powerful is wrong. It just seems extremely powerful since they can reset the fight at will if they didn’t like how the turnout was on their initial attack. I feel like most people just don’t know how to use the dodge feature properly honestly for this part. These thieves that have huge burst damage are powerful yes but they go down easily when they get hit. An argument could be made for them to have a bit more damage but that’s debatable.

Bottom line is that thieves are just plainly no fun to fight against. Honestly I think the best effect they could do to fix this would be to reduce any stealth movement by 25-50% (testing needed) and shadow step can not be use while in stealth. Thieves should have to choose between either having mobility or stealth and not have both at all times.

I agree with the OP on this. IMHO, the main issue is the ducking back into stealth frequently while in combat. No class should have that ability! Stealthers already have a major advantage in being able to initiate combat, usually with a starter move that’s a doozy, that’s more than enough.

I would love to see a MMO that dos’nt have any friggin’ ninjas, they’re always overpowered.

See this video, 40% = 2/5 of Arenanet roaming team playing as thieves. 40% = 2/5 as warriors as well and of course one elementalist:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/2265971

If you listen to the commentary, it sadly seems Anet thinks the game is good and balanced as it is. They didn’t even try playing heavily outmanned (I really mean with the outmanned buff on).

agreed!

thief should not get revealed when he attacks in stealth, perma visibility is broken

thief should not be able to stomp in stealth, players last hit by thieves should just die with no downed state

thief should not have condition removal, but turn into boons instead

thief should be Rewarded for Everything they do

thief should be given the Best of Everything

thief should be Perfect

thief should get Away With Everything they do

thief should fly! “lifted up” by Stealth mechanic

and the devs should Promotes and Justifies their action

thief profession name should be changed to The Gold Child
as thief does not fit our Balanced Advantage Supremacy

If anet had any self respect they would simply remove/completely alter the thief class and put their hands up; ‘we made a mistake’. For a game that’s broke the ‘holy trinity’ in an attempt to be different, the thief class is horrifically derivative, lazily designed and is a clear cash-grab at a certain demographic, we all know the sort

Just for comparison, In Eve Online; Cloaking could not be done if someone had you selected (locked). It could not be rapidly spammed. It fails if anything gets close to you. You cannot target/attack if cloaked. It crippled most ships that fitted cloaking ability to lock/target other players with delays and slower locking time. It was typically often a compromise and the ships designed to use it never hit very hard compared to the dps monsters.

The PvP-centric (well…) CCP recognised how powerful stealth is and made it available only under very select circumstances, even then, it was a very powerful tool if used well. Anet? Every 3 or 4 seconds (?!) and no restrictions on a super high spike damage class. Players do not have to use any skill, it’s there, like a crutch for over aggressive players who make a lot of mistakes as they spam their ultra-high damage skills and need a risk free, pause button pvp option, otherwise they will cry and not play the game, hence the demographic targeting.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Frenk.5917:

Do you think we’re OP? Roll a thief and let’s see if we are really OP as you say.

L2P and all that nonsense aside, I would also recommend that everyone that hates Thieves roll one.

At worst, you’ll learn new things about the class and the playstyle so you are better prepared to counter it, even if you end up thinking it’s not so OP. At best, you’ll realize it’s horribly broken and revel in the free loot bags and no repair costs.

Hated thieves, rolled one, can say that I was pretty much right about pvp, and very wrong about pve. In my opinion, wvw skills/etc should match spvp, NOT pve. Pve thief doesn’t need any more difficulty, but wvw thief is imba imba imba imba…

Valik Shin.9027:

Why is everyone trying to balance a thife in 1v1? It should be able to slaughter most people 1v1 that what it is designed to do. It has little else to offer in wvw

I think they shouldn’t be able to slaughter most people 1v1. They should have an advantage due to their high damage and mobility/evades. They have shadowstep, blind, stealth. A good thief is not hard to kill, he’s impossible to kill. He will not choose to stay in fight just for the fun of it. If he’s losing, he will desappear. No repair costs, and no badge for the opponent. If you look at it this way, every kill is basically a free kill for a thief, with almost no risk involved. I’m not saying thieves can kill everyone, cause they can’t. I’m not saying its easy playing a zerker thief, cause its risky. But you can end a fight before you get into trouble. And that is not right.

Evilek.5690:

Deniara Devious.3948:

bleach.9074:

Play in T1? Thieves are almost useless.

Play in T8? Thieves are OP.

Thieves will probably get buffed because ANET doesn’t care about T8 and balances with only T1 in mind.

Probably around 50% of roamers are thieves.

Go in WvWvW use Fraps and show me your 50% Thieves. I am in four guild (2x pvp guilds with150+ online players) Thieves are barely 5% of the population of this guilds.

But of course you’re right WvWvW is full of Thiefs sarcasm

L2Read. He said 50% of romars are thieves. Imagine this, your server goes on another border with a 50man zerg, while 5-10 people roam, and flip camps. Now 2-5 people might be thieves on that BL. Thats not 50% of all players. Your math and english teachers should be ashamed, now get back to school. Shoo!

draner.5213:

The best way to counter a thief stops at ‘a’. thieves make short work of glass cannons because they start the fight when they are ready but you are not, you spend the first 3 seconds recovering and preparing your response while they spend it killing you, and when two glass cannons collide 3 seconds is all the fight needs.

I am not a glass cannon, I was geared in full exotics (‘cept my rare back piece), had 1200 toughness, and 23k hp. Didn’t have a stun breaker as utility. Got basilisked by a thief and dropped befor stun wore off (1.5 secs), and was shadowstomped. I understand what you are saying, but that suggests that everyone should be running around with 2000 toughness because thives exist. Should they hit hard, yes. But then I should have the option to get them. I need CCs, stun breakers, and high armor for this. So I have to build a character that is not that much fun to play. Cause my utilities I waste for trying to get a thief. I will have utilities on 40 cooldown because of the way thieves can start a fight right now. They can reset the fight in 12 secs, come out of stealth and hand me my kitten

Thieves dont need much of a nerf. i am a Mesmer… and my confusion build got nerfed like a kitten but yet with my new build i am kittenin up all the kittenty thieves.

I’m not saying they need a nerf, their mechanic would need a change. Stealth shouldn’t be so easy to use. It needs a cooldown that is longer than the stealth. It would still be an escape tool, but you couldn’t reset fights with it all the time, until your opponent burns all his cooldowns trying to survive/catch a thief. I’m glad you can own thieves on your mesmer, not sure about what skills are involved on both sides though.

I was just doing some wvw, and all I saw were thieves and mesmers, everywhere. For everyone who argues they have no role in a zerg – this is simply not true. I constantly hear the dink-dink-dink and see my healthbar start plummeting from unknown sources, then see a thief appear before I have to retreat. Their stealth is so useful, and they chase down and pick off enemies retreating. In open world, they are nearly impossible to fight 1v1 and very hard even 2v1. It all comes down to the fact that, in wvw, thieves can use their epic stealth skills to go glass cannon, and be low-risk, high-reward. The only reason pvp doesn’t complain about thieves as much is b/c getting in, killing, and getting out isn’t as valuable, and thieves can’t cap points in stealth. In wvw, killing matters a lot. I think if deathmatch ever becomes a popular game-type, thieves will finally get the adjustment they deserve. If a glass cannon misses his burst, he should be dead. However, if a gw2 glass cannon misses, just hit your reset button of choice.

I would seriously love to see the numbers, but it seems like wvw is at least 50% thief and mesmer.

nagymbear.5280:

I’m not saying they need a nerf, their mechanic would need a change. Stealth shouldn’t be so easy to use. It needs a cooldown that is longer than the stealth. It would still be an escape tool, but you couldn’t reset fights with it all the time, until your opponent burns all his cooldowns trying to survive/catch a thief. I’m glad you can own thieves on your mesmer, not sure about what skills are involved on both sides though.

You can own thieves on most classes… it’s just a learn to play issue. Avoid/mitigate their burst, cc them, smash them, and you’ll be fine. It’s the same reason why you don’t see thieves in higher skilled tPvP gameplay, but all the time in hotjoin.

Aberrant.6749:

You can own thieves on most classes… it’s just a learn to play issue. Avoid/mitigate their burst, cc them, smash them, and you’ll be fine. It’s the same reason why you don’t see thieves in higher skilled tPvP gameplay, but all the time in hotjoin.

No it’s not. Sure you can own most noob thieves if you know your class but at equivalent skill level thieves are at advantage and by far… As for tpvp the goal is to controls points and you can’t do it while stealthed so thieves (at least shealth oriented ones) are obviously at disadvantage in that kinds of fights…

Also I’d like to point the fact that the actual balance disadvantages a skilled use of the thief.
If you use(or at least try to use) your stealth to confuse the enemy in a dynamic way with little sequences of 1-2 sec of stealth you’ll get 3 sec of revealed between each sequences stopping you from restealthing and you spend less than 50% of your time under stealth.
But on the other side if you use stealth for very long duration (let’s just say 10 sec for example…) with burst during the revealed and then restealth for another long duration (the way mosts thieves use it actualy) you still only get 3 sec of revealed and so you spend around 75% of your time under stealth. And of course since the revealed debuff duration is constant the longer you stay in stealth the less that debuff affects you…

Now obviously there is a problem. Why would the dynamic “skilled” use of a class be disadvantaged to the “unskilled” one? Why in a game that wants to be dynamic would you push players in that kind “static” gameplay?

So now let’s say we want to balance this situation. What can we do? Up the revealed duration? No it would disadvantage the low duration use and push people into long duration uses even more. Lower it? No it would make long uses even more affective while not pushing into the short stealth use. That to say you can put whatever duration you want on revealed stealth will never be balanced as long as that duration is constant. So we need a variable duration. What stealth needs is just a proportion between the time you spend in stealth and the duration of the revealed debuff. It’s that simple…and trust me the day Anet balance team will figure it out we’ll get to balance for stealth in no time…Now we just need to pray for they figure it out…

Aberrant.6749:

nagymbear.5280:

I’m not saying they need a nerf, their mechanic would need a change. Stealth shouldn’t be so easy to use. It needs a cooldown that is longer than the stealth. It would still be an escape tool, but you couldn’t reset fights with it all the time, until your opponent burns all his cooldowns trying to survive/catch a thief. I’m glad you can own thieves on your mesmer, not sure about what skills are involved on both sides though.

You can own thieves on most classes… it’s just a learn to play issue. Avoid/mitigate their burst, cc them, smash them, and you’ll be fine. It’s the same reason why you don’t see thieves in higher skilled tPvP gameplay, but all the time in hotjoin.

Well most CCs don’t last long enough for you to smash them. If you’re a bunker, how do you smash down a thief during the 2-3 secs he spends on the ground? Surely it is a L2Play issue for me as I don’t have the knowledge it seems. So teach me. Cause I ran a warrior with hammer and only CC utilities in PVT armor, so I had some power at least. Even had 300 power from traits. I CCd a thief for a good 15 seconds which wasn’t enough for me and two uplevelled eles to even down him. That meant using bullrush, fear, stomp, and hammer skills. I’m sorry, but it seems we play a different game. The one I play in a good thief who doesn’t want to risk handing a badge to you, will disappear on low health, and either come back when your skills are on cooldown, or just leave.

Henrik.7560:

Heartseeker, the damage on this is so overpowered, as of it can be used up to 5 times when at full initiative. How to kill someone as a Heartseeker spammer: 3k, 3k, 3k, 5k, 8k, -dead- if they are bunker, they will be less than 30% health.

Thieves that spam nothing but heartseeker are some of the lowest skilled players in this game and you should feel bad for dying to them.

I really like these “nerf thieves” threads. They give me a chance to promote my vids which otherwise would probably get no views lol. But thieves are fine the way they are in my opinion. I think the biggest issue with most people while having to fight a thief is the lack of anticipation. Because they’re in stealth, you can’t see them, so you can’t see where they are and what they’re gonna do. I feel like a thief in stealth is very predictable even though I can’t see him. Being able to anticipate what the other person might do in a fight is part of learning to pvp.

shagworth.5017:

Henrik.7560:

Heartseeker, the damage on this is so overpowered, as of it can be used up to 5 times when at full initiative. How to kill someone as a Heartseeker spammer: 3k, 3k, 3k, 5k, 8k, -dead- if they are bunker, they will be less than 30% health.

Thieves that spam nothing but heartseeker are some of the lowest skilled players in this game and you should feel bad for dying to them.

Hard to ‘defend’ against some random ultra high damage spam tbh. I’m a warrior with 3400 armour and was hit for near 8k by a lone heartseeker spammed from who-knows-where. Sure I was on lower health (% wise, I was never killed by the 8k hit), but I have heals and don’t blow them all the second I get damaged, but theifs get a skill that serves many functions and also hits like a nuke on people with lower % health. There’s so many things wrong with such a skill…

thief’s stealth is not the problem. The problem is an error in balancing the game mechanic which doesn’t allow any means to counter stealth.
Back in the days this problem was already analyzed and perfectly balanced nonetheless by d&d, in which we had:

- invisibility (low level): ended upon attacking any target
- greater invisibility: totally invisible for the whole fight

but, and here is what “balance means”, developers added counters:

- see invisibility: you could locate the enemy and deal partial damage to them while keeping track of most of their movements

- true vision: nothing could be concealed from you for the duration of this “bonus”

it’s beyond my understanding why this game lacks such basic features as a stealth counter.

Grevender, the popular theory is that one of the head developers plays thief and doesn’t like anything in it getting nerfed. Personally, I just think they aren’t thinking things through the entire way.

Grevender.9235:

- invisibility (low level): ended upon attacking any target
.

In the game, in which you can attack him without Target ? Are you kidding me ?

Evilek.5690:

Grevender.9235:

- invisibility (low level): ended upon attacking any target
.

In the game, in which you can attack him without Target ? Are you kidding me ?

Because there is no aoe in D&D? Are you kidding me?

Cottage Pie.6215:

shagworth.5017:

Henrik.7560:

Heartseeker, the damage on this is so overpowered, as of it can be used up to 5 times when at full initiative. How to kill someone as a Heartseeker spammer: 3k, 3k, 3k, 5k, 8k, -dead- if they are bunker, they will be less than 30% health.

Thieves that spam nothing but heartseeker are some of the lowest skilled players in this game and you should feel bad for dying to them.

Hard to ‘defend’ against some random ultra high damage spam tbh. I’m a warrior with 3400 armour and was hit for near 8k by a lone heartseeker spammed from who-knows-where. Sure I was on lower health (% wise, I was never killed by the 8k hit), but I have heals and don’t blow them all the second I get damaged, but theifs get a skill that serves many functions and also hits like a nuke on people with lower % health. There’s so many things wrong with such a skill…

No you were not.

Grevender.9235:

it’s beyond my understanding why this game lacks such basic features as a stealth counter.

Of course every powerful game mechanism should either have a hard counter (e.g. see invisibility) or be made extremely scarce (e.g. possible only very rarely).

Arenanet designers seem to have two contradicting visions:
1. Thief should have the highest single target burst, mobility and ability to enter stealth on demand. According to Arenanet thief can decide when to disengage. Thus he sets the rules. As a counter to stealth Arenanet advertises AoE damage, yet some professions don’t have much any AoE (e.g. ranger) and at the same time Arenanet developers are vocally worried that AoE is too powerful and talk about nerfing it.
2. Guild Wars 2 should be esports with large thriving user base. This obviously assumes that the game should be very beginner friendly. Now imagine what the first experience of a solo roamer in WvWvW or someone entering spvp. Insta gibbed by an invisible enemy. Then during downed state stealth stomped. Soon this player will also reroll into a thief or will be afraid to move alone without equal levels of disengagement (mesmer comes close, thus it is also popular choice for solo roamers).
3. Game should have variety. Each profession should have at least 3 valid builds. WvWvW should be as appealing for small scale and roaming as for big zergs.

To make things more funny we have an army of people telling “it is a learn to play issue”, even when many veteran players here admit “fighting against a thief in WvWvW is no fun” and even the lead designer Izzy told in the latest Anet video that a single thief can troll or even kill 5 players and still get away. Izzy told that thieves are not worth chasing. Well, what happens to a game when you take away the fun? It becomes a chore. Well, it is maybe fun for those playing a certain profession.

Many people write that if your character is too squishy it is your own fault that it dies to a thief. You see here claims that your health should be at least 22000 and armor at least 2600 or otherwise you are a glass cannon and deserve to be insta gibbed out of nowhere. Excuse me: if you are playing a low health profession or low armor profession those numbers are pretty high. And yet at the same time we have a lot of people who complain that bunkers are too strong. Why do you think people play the bunkers? To counter the burst. Even worse burst which can come all of sudden without any preparations possible, thus thougness and long-lasting boons like Aegis become sort only protection to give second more reaction time. If there wouldn’t be so much excessive burst, a lot less people would be running bunker builds as the balanced would be the best option. In Guild Wars 1 almost every good team was balanced. In Guild Wars 2, where the game balance is weaker, almost everybody plays either a glass cannon or a bunker.

Being constantly afraid of being killed out of nowhere disencourages people to run solo in WvWvW. Stealth, combined with so powerful sudden attack which can down you, is one the reasons why many WvWvW players like to move in large groups. To be less afraid. Thus the lack of counters to stealth and abundance of stealth affects things much deeper. It is one of the reasons for zerging. If you want to people to do more small scale roaming in WvWvW, you need to deal with stealth and I am afraid some traps are not gonna fix this issue.

Stealth is of course not related to thieves only. I know very well you can trigger stealth from smoke combo fields, mesmers also got stealth and engineers got random 4 sec stealth from toss Elixir S (60 s cooldown) and so on.

Ive no problem with thief damage, I just hate the fact that they can just run away easily if things aren’t going their way, and now it’s even easier since they can just steal your swiftness with a sword3.

Oh and smokefield+heartseeker backstab spamming thieves are so incredibly lame. You really are.

i don’t think thief’s need a nerf, there damage is pritty hard and there constant stealthing is really annoying but what needs to change isn’t the thief its the other classes that need to be changed, i run a hgh bomber engi and i beat almost everything easy 1v1 except mesmers and total bunker guardians then the last patch came along and they added in more things that could counter my boons, before that it was just necro’s that specced for boon and condition removal and mesmer’s that toke my boons.

now thief’s and warriors can take advantage of my biggest bonus to my build and as much as i hate that its kinda needed, why should my build have only 2 classes that could easily counter it if those players just so happen to be running my particular counter at that time its just not good enough imo.

so when i say the other classes need to change what i mean is other classes need a way to counter the stealth that is the thieves biggest advantage in a fight and not just an easy change but something that forces me to change my builds dynamic to make it more effective to counter stealth but less effective at fighting the classes that i used to own.

so here’s my choices do i want to beat warriors, rangers, eles, other engis and necros that arnt built to counter me or do i just simply hate thiefs that much that im willing to sacrifice potential killing power just so i can have my sweet revenge?

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

^that is laughably the worst comparison I’ve seen. As if those two skills have any relevance and good use of putting boons on the Warrior too.

Well I don’t think I’ve seen anyone hating thieves more than I do, but at that point it’s beyond absurd to request more nerfs, really.

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

O.o What noobs are letting you hit them with pistol whip?

People have tried to do all of those things to me and they never work. They need to have me targeted first, and Black Powder fires a blind and a blind field to boot. I like how you also insinuate a Thief will actually HS towards a guy who just walks into the field? I guess you really can counter bad Thieves.

If they do by some miracle manage to smack me out of the field, that’s why I have Blinding Powder and Shadowstep. BP even gives me the initiative to start the combo again. I’ve even gotten immobilized in the smoke field and HS still goes through and makes me invisible. Lol.

Exactly how many 4s immos, or stuns, or chills do most (bad) Thieves believe people get? According to these (bad) Thieves the counter to D/P 5 2 spam is CC, but also you need CC for Blinding powder, but you also need CC and AOE for Shadow Refuge, and I can have all of these on me to use as I see fit.

Deniara Devious.3948:

1. Thief should have the highest single target burst, mobility and ability to enter stealth on demand. According to Arenanet thief can decide when to disengage. Thus he sets the rules. As a counter to stealth Arenanet advertises AoE damage, yet some professions don’t have much any AoE (e.g. ranger) and at the same time Arenanet developers are vocally worried that AoE is too powerful and talk about nerfing it.

well yeah that is ridiculous and also, mesmer have very limited AOE as berserkes only get activated with a target and chaos storm is not really strong compared to other aoe.the only counter was our glam build that got nerfed to kitten…probably because it was a good counter for button spamming thieves….
and as for a builds vs zergs….well mesmers got a big downer in this area as glam was known for being a zergbuster….

Leave thieves alone, and create a counter to stealth.
To maintain balance, every mechanic must have a counter.
If no counter is present, you will be left with an overpowered mechanism.