Guild Wars 2

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

ProTip: If you are going to compare something make it on equal standards no kitten the warrior did more damage he was buffed to oblivion and the thief wasnt.

i ll go do this next Buffed Thief test and post screens of damage myself

also you missed my point No Cooldown on thief #2 is a shadowstep/teleport away skill
# 3 does massive damage and has no cooldown

5 Perma blind so that warrior wont even tickle a thief.

No CD ??? First time learn Thief mechanism.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Hundred Blades 8 sec CD Pistol Wip 6.65 sec CD WoW

Thief using the maximum 1x shadow step and 2x Pistol Wip(15438 DMG) =One Hundred Blades(15743 DMG) and what now ? Zero initiative and Thief can not use any other spells.

thiefs have traits and signets buffing initiative regen dont ignore that little fact.

Loyo.8526:

Someone show me a WvW video of Necro 1vXing. please.

As a condition necromancer, I 1vX all the time in world vs. world. It’s almost why I world vs. world.

Sin.4130:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

All I’m hearing is “Nerf Thieves because I only know how to hack and slash.”

This.

I faced many thieves in 1 vs 1 duels, and believe me you cant kill skilled thief, he will hide and hunt you down when all your best skills are wasted and reloading. Of curse there is many poor thief players, but it is steel hard to kill them compared with any other poor players. They do that absolutely with little risk. You can win with skilled thief only by luck and this is absolutely insane and need to be fixed.

What spec do you run ? Say a semi decent d/d bunker Ele should destroy even the best thief out there.

Try any class/spec, you are doomed. In 1 vs 1 thief has god mode.

I used to beat most thieves (not the condition ones) with my confusion shatter mesmer. I still also win against a fair percentage of them with my shatter damage build, though it’s indeed not possible against the better ones.
However, I have seen some thieves that I know to be excellent to fail badly against d/d ele.

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

ProTip: If you are going to compare something make it on equal standards no kitten the warrior did more damage he was buffed to oblivion and the thief wasnt.

i ll go do this next Buffed Thief test and post screens of damage myself

also you missed my point No Cooldown on thief #2 is a shadowstep/teleport away skill
# 3 does massive damage and has no cooldown

5 Perma blind so that warrior wont even tickle a thief.

No CD ??? First time learn Thief mechanism.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Hundred Blades 8 sec CD Pistol Wip 6.65 sec CD WoW

Thief using the maximum 1x shadow step and 2x Pistol Wip(15438 DMG) =One Hundred Blades(15743 DMG) and what now ? Zero initiative and Thief can not use any other spells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJGwY7CKLdo

thiefs have traits and signets buffing initiative regen dont ignore that little fact.

What ??? First time this is horrible video.
Secondly you’ve done exactly what I wrote =)

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

ProTip: If you are going to compare something make it on equal standards no kitten the warrior did more damage he was buffed to oblivion and the thief wasnt.

i ll go do this next Buffed Thief test and post screens of damage myself

also you missed my point No Cooldown on thief #2 is a shadowstep/teleport away skill
# 3 does massive damage and has no cooldown

5 Perma blind so that warrior wont even tickle a thief.

No CD ??? First time learn Thief mechanism.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Hundred Blades 8 sec CD Pistol Wip 6.65 sec CD WoW

Thief using the maximum 1x shadow step and 2x Pistol Wip(15438 DMG) =One Hundred Blades(15743 DMG) and what now ? Zero initiative and Thief can not use any other spells.

now note this was in PVP in wvw y ou can pretty much double that ridiculous damage as you can climb crit damage up to 110%+ and 100% crit rate

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

ProTip: If you are going to compare something make it on equal standards no kitten the warrior did more damage he was buffed to oblivion and the thief wasnt.

i ll go do this next Buffed Thief test and post screens of damage myself

also you missed my point No Cooldown on thief #2 is a shadowstep/teleport away skill
# 3 does massive damage and has no cooldown

5 Perma blind so that warrior wont even tickle a thief.

No CD ??? First time learn Thief mechanism.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Hundred Blades 8 sec CD Pistol Wip 6.65 sec CD WoW

Thief using the maximum 1x shadow step and 2x Pistol Wip(15438 DMG) =One Hundred Blades(15743 DMG) and what now ? Zero initiative and Thief can not use any other spells.

now note this was in PVP in wvw y ou can pretty much double that ridiculous damage as you can climb crit damage up to 110%+ and 100% crit rate

No one is running 100/100.

And didn’t the thief community do tests with pistol whip and determined it’s actually a DPS decrease over auto attack?

Master of Timespace.2548:

Sin.4130:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

All I’m hearing is “Nerf Thieves because I only know how to hack and slash.”

This.

I faced many thieves in 1 vs 1 duels, and believe me you cant kill skilled thief, he will hide and hunt you down when all your best skills are wasted and reloading. Of curse there is many poor thief players, but it is steel hard to kill them compared with any other poor players. They do that absolutely with little risk. You can win with skilled thief only by luck and this is absolutely insane and need to be fixed.

What spec do you run ? Say a semi decent d/d bunker Ele should destroy even the best thief out there.

Try any class/spec, you are doomed. In 1 vs 1 thief has god mode.

I used to beat most thieves (not the condition ones) with my confusion shatter mesmer. I still also win against a fair percentage of them with my shatter damage build, though it’s indeed not possible against the better ones.
However, I have seen some thieves that I know to be excellent to fail badly against d/d ele.

Warrior is the only one class for me which can kill for good most of the best thieves in 1 vs 1. It still depends only on luck but at last it is really possible. But warrior build which can do that I heard is going to be nerfed…:)

Atherakhia.4086:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

so thiefs say they got nerfed bad hmm lets see what it takes to kill people :

sword/pistol- #2 shadowstep-#3 9xhits(i hit for 9ks with only 62% crit)-#5-#3-#2-#2-#5-#3-#5-#3.

yup thief definetly is a hard to play class lol.

Thief vs Warrior dmg.
7719 vs 15743

ProTip: If you are going to compare something make it on equal standards no kitten the warrior did more damage he was buffed to oblivion and the thief wasnt.

i ll go do this next Buffed Thief test and post screens of damage myself

also you missed my point No Cooldown on thief #2 is a shadowstep/teleport away skill
# 3 does massive damage and has no cooldown

5 Perma blind so that warrior wont even tickle a thief.

No CD ??? First time learn Thief mechanism.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative

Hundred Blades 8 sec CD Pistol Wip 6.65 sec CD WoW

Thief using the maximum 1x shadow step and 2x Pistol Wip(15438 DMG) =One Hundred Blades(15743 DMG) and what now ? Zero initiative and Thief can not use any other spells.

now note this was in PVP in wvw y ou can pretty much double that ridiculous damage as you can climb crit damage up to 110%+ and 100% crit rate

No one is running 100/100.

And didn’t the thief community do tests with pistol whip and determined it’s actually a DPS decrease over auto attack?

wonder how they did the tests as this attack simply does the equivalent of about 5 auto atacks at once unless you compare it to dagger then yea auto does more dps as daggers have attack rate of 1/4.

I’ve been thinking about that video linked with the Newerwinter thief having stealth as long as they kill with their attack. What do you guys think about that being introduced to cnd. Stealing has a cooldown, the heal and shadow refuge has cooldowns. I’m not sure about the combo field stealth though, as I didn’t see that in action. I would settle for more health and toughness for thieves. They can even have their regen in stealth as far as I’m concerned.

Let designers of all characters make tournament 1 vs 1 . I bet all my money that thief would take first place in huge advantage. Do ANet have balls to arrange that and share results with all community???

What do you think?

Sin.4130:

Let designers of all characters make tournament 1 vs 1 . I bet all my money that thief would take first place in huge advantage. Do ANet have balls to arrange that and share results with all community???

What do you think?

ROFL. Ill take that bet. I hope your rich

Sin.4130:

Let designers of all characters make tournament 1 vs 1 . I bet all my money that thief would take first place in huge advantage. Do ANet have balls to arrange that and share results with all community???

What do you think?

I don’t even think Thief would go amongst the top 3. The whole fuss about the class in WvW is due to the badly designed stealth and superior mobility, that’s all, just all.

MrForz.1953:

Sin.4130:

Let designers of all characters make tournament 1 vs 1 . I bet all my money that thief would take first place in huge advantage. Do ANet have balls to arrange that and share results with all community???

What do you think?

I don’t even think Thief would go amongst the top 3. The whole fuss about the class in WvW is due to the badly designed stealth and superior mobility, that’s all, just all.

pvp would be won by whoever played mesmer actually :L

LordByron.8369:

There is an interesting discussion in thief forum…

Stealth VS invulnerability.

Most players would feel invul would even be less impacting than stealth..

Read it and you get some interesting PoV

I have read that threat and was shaking my head. This just further proves how out of touch most thief players are. They have no idea what the word balance means.

If all thief abilities which grant stealth would grant invulnerability it would be totally overpowered. Just to mention few:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Killer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Assassin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Protector
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusion_of_Shadow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cloaked_in_Shadow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fleet_Shadow
100% crit chance under invulnerability
gain might while under invulnerability
gain regeneration if you grant invulnerability for your allies
gain 2 initiative when using a skill that makes you invulnerable
regenerate health while invulnerable
entering stealth will blind nearby foes
move 50% faster while invulnerable

Not to mention doing huge damage while invulnerable

For comparison engineers can get 3 seconds invulnerability using elixir S, which has 60 second cooldown and currently disables all skills, including toolbar skills. In other words the engineer cannot attack nor heal during that 3 seconds, nor even change a kit. And thieves think it would be okay to get invulnerability on demand and get all of the above, plus share it with your team mates and it from smoke field combos. LOL!

I recommend people to watch World of Roguecraft series of videos. The rogues on the video appear just like most of the thief players on these forums:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u55vHURPQSw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KMOc_y7xo

PS. The anti-stealth traps are pretty much useless. Arenanet get your head out of the bushes! Invisibility + teleportation + high mobility + high burst damage + huge map = bad game design

Stealth should make enemy characters semi-transparent, not fully invisible, just like they appear to their allies.

WvW is not 1 vs. 1. Just ask a few more people from your server to play thief too so in the and every server has the same amount of thieves. Then it is balanced.

No nerf required.

Balances issues are more important in sPvP where you only have teams of 5 vs. 5 in tournaments… if you play random and don’t know which other people(and classes) the matchmaker puts in your team. There is still 1-2 minute to relog… but then again not everybody is good at every class and that 1-2 minutes are meant to discuss strategy(but usually there is not much talking and not strategy).

Sin.4130:

Warrior is the only one class for me which can kill for good most of the best thieves in 1 vs 1. It still depends only on luck but at last it is really possible. But warrior build which can do that I heard is going to be nerfed…:)

the 2 Golden rules of GW2 are:

warriors needs buff in PvE
Anything Killing a thief in www deserve a nerf

They follow them religiously since release….so unless that build is good for PvE it will be nerfed and possibly split from PvE beacuse its not acceptable for a warrior to get PvE nerfs.

Thieves are easy work. Fought lots of duels and can’t ever recall losing one against a thief.

This insane amount of invisibility, high mobility and decent dmg is out of question and no one with half working brain can defend that is meant to work without any counter from other classes.

I die in WvW a lot and I must waste much gold on repairs, thief just can’t die here, this is farm haven for them. Don’t say this is not the truth, just fight them, I kill maybe 25% of them and only if they are very bad players.

On 1 vs 1 with best of them try one or two of your best attacks and if it doesn’t work just run away, you will save money and time, this is really sick, and designers should be shame. They even pretend to not see this problem.

selan.8354:

Jinks.2057:

WTF are you doing in those 3 seconds to allow that “16k” damage to happen?

3 secs is an extremely long period of time

2 seconds stunned, 1 second trying to heal and phase retreat back…phase worked, heal failed… backstab heartseeker,heartseeker,heartseeker shadowstab heart seeker

And where exactly did this d/p thief’s 2 second stun come from? Note that BV is only 1.5, and maybe that seems nitpicky, but in a 3 second fight .5 sec makes quite the difference

Sin.4130:

On 1 vs 1

The million dollar question in here is, why 1vs1 at all, ever? This isn’t Duel vs Mortal Kombat, this is World vs World. If your class is paper, bring a rock with you to gank scissors all day every day.

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdTnXeZslKs , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF8DFS1ieKg , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Vw2MigBNQ

For two minutes searching on Youtube
BTW THIEF IS SO OP !!!! /sarcasm

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6QPe1aKtHk

, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdTnXeZslKs , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF8DFS1ieKg , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-Vw2MigBNQ

For two minutes searching on Youtube
BTW THIEF IS SO OP !!!! /sarcasm

Do I see solo zerg fight or party fight with thief in squad…? lol

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

look em up yourself. i don’t have to proove anything.

i eat thieves for breakfast with my necro. if i lose to one, he was better than me, that’s it. and yes, i 1vX vs groups. 90% of the wvwvw pvp’ers are just bad.

ofc you can try to improve or run to the forums and whine about anything. we can see your decision.

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Show some videos about dueling thieves in WvW, then we can talk serious again.

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

look em up yourself. i don’t have to proove anything.

i eat thieves for breakfast with my necro. if i lose to one, he was better than me, that’s it. and yes, i 1vX vs groups. 90% of the wvwvw pvp’ers are just bad.

ofc you can try to improve or run to the forums and whine about anything. we can see your decision.

Show some videos about this dueling thieves in WvW, then we can talk seriously again.

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

buttski.6135:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

1 vs 1 can show proper balance in game, that’s what I meant, and Of course it is very important for some players. There are many unofficial fight clubs in gw2 already.
Look at this video, good thief can mess a lot not only in 1 vs1 or 1 vs x …, it is like god mode. We can’t pretend that we don’t see it:
http://youtu.be/Q0QtQ1sotHo

Show some videos about dueling thieves in WvW, then we can talk serious again.

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Mostly commanders are good players, when they die by thief like that it can decrease morale of all group. That’s why probably commander left this mini zerg.

Most of squad members don’t know game enough to know this thief god mode, this is another reason to nerf it.

this commander and his whole zerg were terrible and absolutely not good players. maybe you fail to see this because you’re just a bad pvp’er aswell.

pvp shouldnt be balanced around the bottom 20% (pvp skills). and those are the ones crying for nerfs and complaining the whole time.

If you are so pro pvp player do that with any other class even against that amount of bots instead of real players, i m waiting for video, lol

look em up yourself. i don’t have to proove anything.

i eat thieves for breakfast with my necro. if i lose to one, he was better than me, that’s it. and yes, i 1vX vs groups. 90% of the wvwvw pvp’ers are just bad.

ofc you can try to improve or run to the forums and whine about anything. we can see your decision.

Show some videos about this dueling thieves, then we can talk seriously again.

Show me video loool.

Come to the game and show me your skill . I pew you with all me characters. MR “Show me video”

BTW Fraps is ready.Or do you fear?

With pleasure u can wisp me in game anytime when i m online, and stick to point of discussion from now.

Evilek.5690:

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Jacklo.4230:

Love the videos that are posted… as if only Thief can do 1 vs X
…
Just some random videos of other people playing different classes to good effect.

You know, maybe it really is JUST YOU.

Literally Roguecraft all over again.

Compare and contrast the amount of WvW trolling videos made by Thieves that demonstrate consistent 1vX trolls versus the amount made by other classes. D/D Bunker Eles come closest to the amount of Thief 1vX trolls (lulz, and that’s what’s posted as counter evidence), and guess what the community thought about that. NERF NERF NERF

In fact, find a single video of even the most bunker Warrior, Necro or Guardian going deep into an enemy zerg, for minutes at a time, harassing and downing the commander from within 15+ of even the worst of players. I’m going to go ahead and guess that when other classes try this, they die.

The reason they don’t perform like the Thief, is because the Thief’s mechanics for survival are vastly superior – which allows them to take what would otherwise be guaranteed suicides without any risk at all. The fact that this capacity is available almost exclusively to the Thief is the very definition of being OP, intended by devs or not. I’m sorry, but that’s what it is.

I love my Thief. He’s my highest rank in WvW and the first class I played in my first BWE. But I call it like I see it. Constant invisibility will be endlessly broken or balanced by being almost completely useless in almost any multiplayer game. It’s a dance done by countless video games before this one, and will probably continue because game designers just don’t learn from other’s mistakes. SWTOR’s version of the rogue class was butchered shortly after launch because, like most Rogue/Assassin/Predator archetypes, it was intentionally designed as a troll class. Give me all of the choices – remove them from my opponent. It is the antithesis of a direct confrontation determined by skill and decision making capacity of the participants involved. The same thing happens with non-mmos. Natural Selection 2 nerfed the invisibility upgrade for the Alien team completely for the same reasons. Same old story. Crysis’ stealth is changed up game to game in multiplayer, as did Halo’s, teetering between broken and useless every other game.

Worst still, it’s just as annoying to new players as getting CC’ed for hours on end, because one of the worst game developer mistakes is to make a player consistently feel helpless or powerless – which is what facing an invisible opponent, who controls the flow of the battle, the location of the battle, and the odds of the battle, does.

As much fun as it is for me and my Guild’s Thieves to run around in perma-stealth builds trolling people who don’t see us coming and can’t even escape or kill us in turn – it’s kinda broken.

I sure liked being a Thief when Thieves could contest supply camp cap zones while invisible around 40+ organized guild players – but it had to change because it was really stupid. And that was with one guy just running around in a single area that everyone can see while stealthed.

Ultimately, I really enjoy the class so if nothing’s ever done I don’t lose – but one day I’d like to think my Thief’s performance in PvP is because I’m good or am slowly getting better, not because my invisibility is EZ MODE ACTIVATED. I don’t even consider myself a good Thief, and shudder to think of the type of performances skilled ones can do in WvW.

Low risk – high reward is not good because it removes any decision making process. Anything that has no risk but has the potential of yielding the same rewards as something else that does have risk is obviously the better and more intelligent choice. Why would I ever roam on my <insert class choice here> if I’m slow, can be outzerged and can’t escape from losing battles when I can do so on my <insert class here> and never have to pay repair costs? For the challenge? Because I hate my gold? For the lulz?

TainoFuerte.8136:

…

I don’t know. Are the idiots chasing 10v1 any better than the thief trolling them? Why should the game be balanced so that the chasers win? Inbalance that allows you to avoid these noob blobs is more than justified.

Low risk – high reward is not good because it removes any decision making process.

The thing is, roaming as a thief is not low risk – high reward. It is low risk – low reward. Zerging and blobbing however is truly low risk – high reward.

It doesn’t have to be. Could be that every class is designed to have similar potential for disengagements so that everyone can roam effectively. The chasers don’t have to win, but right now they’ll always win against some classes and never win against others. That’s pretty much what imbalanced means.

The thing is, roaming as a thief is not low risk – high reward. It is low risk – low reward. Zerging and blobbing however is truly low risk – high reward.

You are using zerging as a red herring here. The issue at hand is that when it comes to roaming one class can reap the same potential rewards for the activity without any of the risks several of the other classes have to take. That’s the very essence of low risk – high reward.

TainoFuerte.8136:

It doesn’t have to be. Could be that every class is designed to have similar potential for disengagements so that everyone can roam effectively. The chasers don’t have to win, but right now they’ll always win against some classes and never win against others. That’s pretty much what imbalanced means.

True and well said, I agree 100%.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Evilek.5690:

Of course we see zombie zerg with no brain

Jacklo.4230:

Love the videos that are posted… as if only Thief can do 1 vs X
…
Just some random videos of other people playing different classes to good effect.

You know, maybe it really is JUST YOU.

Literally Roguecraft all over again…

I agree with some of your points, particularly that many thieves enjoy trolling.

With regards the ratio of 1vX videos around…
I have seen more 1vX Thief videos, true, but you’re missing some obvious points.

Some people simply like to play alone, Thief is the natural first choice.
Most of these videos are from only a few individuals.
These individuals are unlikely to post videos of the fights that they lost.

Despite what many would have you believe, or you choose to believe from seeing a few videos, WvW is not overrun by Godlike Thieves. Certainly not in my experience.

Neither is it as easy as people make out. I can barely land a CnD on a moving player let alone a backstab, especially with any kind of group around with CC’s and AoE.
Indeed when I’m targetted by a Thief myself, I don’t really do much other than keep moving, dodge and AoE before they move on for an easier kill.

Jacklo.4230:

With regards the ratio of 1vX videos around…
I have seen more 1vX Thief videos, true, but you’re missing some obvious points.

Some people simply like to play alone, Thief is the natural first choice.

Why is that? Players who roll other classes all love to play with zergs? How do you know this?

Most of these videos are from only a few individuals.
These individuals are unlikely to post videos of the fights that they lost.

I’m not sure I understand these assumptions. Does this mean there are less individuals with Fraps playing other classes? How do you know this? Why are all the individuals who record WvW magically attracted to this one class?

It’s possible they may be unlikely to post videos of losses, but this same principle could apply to players who video record as any class.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Jacklo.4230:

With regards the ratio of 1vX videos around…
I have seen more 1vX Thief videos, true, but you’re missing some obvious points.

Some people simply like to play alone, Thief is the natural first choice.

Why is that? Players who roll other classes all love to play with zergs? How do you know this?

Most of these videos are from only a few individuals.
These individuals are unlikely to post videos of the fights that they lost.

I’m not sure I understand these assumptions. Does this mean there are less individuals with Fraps playing other classes? How do you know this? Why are all the individuals who record WvW magically attracted to this one class?

It’s possible they may be unlikely to post videos of losses, but this same principle could apply to players who video record as any class.

I “assume” lone players would choose Thief in WvW because it’s a class that allows you to avoid groups or zergs by the use of stealth. A fair assumption I would have thought.

Of course they could choose any class, but to then complain that Thieves can avoid death in situations where others can’t seems silly, when thief is available to all.

I “know” that many 1vX Thief videos are from a few individuals through simple observation. Unless you’re just trolling, what point are you trying to make here?

As an aside, there are a huge number of videos showing GvG and smaller groups fighting it out in WvW. They are often posted in the relevant tier’s weekly threads in this very forum.
I have never seen one where a thief makes a mess of the situation, nor have I heard any mention of a thief causing problems in any of the threads.

I dare say that if you suggested thief was such a problem to any of these guys, you would be laughed out of the forums.

Jacklo.4230:

I “assume” lone players would choose Thief in WvW because it’s a class that allows you to avoid groups or zergs by the use of stealth. A fair assumption I would have thought.

That’s exactly what we are saying. They choose it due to the tools it provides. Did you have a point?

Of course they could choose any class, but to then complain that Thieves can avoid death in situations where others can’t seems silly, when thief is available to all.

Thief is available to all? So just roll Thief if you want to roam? We have a master of balance design here.

I “know” that many 1vX Thief videos are from a few individuals through simple observation. Unless you’re just trolling, what point are you trying to make here?

I’m not making a point. I was asking what was yours. What conclusion are we supposed to draw from the fact not everyone records and when they do record, it just happens to be as Thieves? None? So you had no point at all? You told me I was missing some points, so what are you trying to say?

As an aside, there are a huge number of videos showing GvG and smaller groups fighting it out in WvW. They are often posted in the relevant tier’s weekly threads in this very forum.
I have never seen one where a thief makes a mess of the situation, nor have I heard any mention of a thief causing problems in any of the threads.

I dare say that if you suggested thief was such a problem to any of these guys, you would be laughed out of the forums.

I understand that reading english might be difficult, but what does GvG have to do with the discussion at hand? I don’t think I’ve mentioned GvG at all.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Jacklo.4230:

I “assume” lone players would choose Thief in WvW because it’s a class that allows you to avoid groups or zergs by the use of stealth. A fair assumption I would have thought.

That’s exactly what we are saying. They choose it due to the tools it provides. Did you have a point?

Of course they could choose any class, but to then complain that Thieves can avoid death in situations where others can’t seems silly, when thief is available to all.

Thief is available to all? So just roll Thief if you want to roam? We have a master of balance design here.

I “know” that many 1vX Thief videos are from a few individuals through simple observation. Unless you’re just trolling, what point are you trying to make here?

I’m not making a point. I was asking what was yours. What conclusion are we supposed to draw from the fact not everyone records and when they do record, it just happens to be as Thieves? None? So you had no point at all? You told me I was missing some points, so what are you trying to say?

As an aside, there are a huge number of videos showing GvG and smaller groups fighting it out in WvW. They are often posted in the relevant tier’s weekly threads in this very forum.
I have never seen one where a thief makes a mess of the situation, nor have I heard any mention of a thief causing problems in any of the threads.

I dare say that if you suggested thief was such a problem to any of these guys, you would be laughed out of the forums.

I understand that reading english might be difficult, but what does GvG have to do with the discussion at hand? I don’t think I’ve mentioned GvG at all.

You’re just being pedantic.

You were suggesting that other classes can’t 1vX, they can, despite there being more videos from thieves showing this.

Why roll a thief to get around a map largely unnoticed?
Then why roll a class other than Mesmer if you like the idea of porting groups of people around the map?
You choose the best class for the job obviously!

You didn’t mention GvG, so what?
You’re talking about Thieves regularly killing groups.
By GvG I wasn’t talking about organised events by the Windmill where this situation wouldn’t occur, but rather the guilds, small or large, roaming the maps for encounters with similar sized groups, who produce videos of their encounters and discuss them in the forums.

Oddly I’ve never seen them whining that they got wiped by a thief before they got started, or a thief spoiled their night.

Now go ahead and pick the bones out of that if you like. It seems you’re more of a troll than any thief I saw.

Jacklo.4230:

…

If you want to kill several players easily – choose thief, if you want to ride in the middle of zerg, and walk away like nothing happened – choose thief. Man you are out of your mind. This is not question of class specialization, this is matter of insane advantage for one class.

Sin.4130:

Jacklo.4230:

…

If you want to kill several players easily – choose thief, if you want to ride in the middle of zerg, and walk away like nothing happened – choose thief. Man you are out of your mind. This is not question of class specialization, this is matter of insane advantage for one class.

Except that advantage is open to everyone, on every job. Let me show you the stealth and run away option open to all, I actually rerolled my guardian after spending 300+ gold on my old one just for this skill.

Master of Timespace.2548:

TainoFuerte.8136:

…

I don’t know. Are the idiots chasing 10v1 any better than the thief trolling them? Why should the game be balanced so that the chasers win? Inbalance that allows you to avoid these noob blobs is more than justified.

Low risk – high reward is not good because it removes any decision making process.

The thing is, roaming as a thief is not low risk – high reward. It is low risk – low reward. Zerging and blobbing however is truly low risk – high reward.

it’s not about balance the game so the “chasers” win, it’s about not letting one class decide when to engage, when to take risk, while putting other classes in less favorable situations in any sorts of confrontation. An ideal solution is to add some counters to some other classes against thief’s stealth abilities. Ranger would make an ideal class to receive that boost.

rchu.8945:

it’s not about balance the game so the “chasers” win, it’s about not letting one class decide when to engage, when to take risk, while putting other classes in less favorable situations in any sorts of confrontation.

That option is open to every class, see my above post.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/thief-nerf-required-in-www/page/8#post2034656

Jacklo.4230:

You’re just being pedantic.

You were suggesting that other classes can’t 1vX, they can, despite there being more videos from thieves showing this.

Very much like Roguecraft – it is completely coincidental that Thieves have more videos about these circumstances, and that the other contender for troll WvW videos, D/D bunker Ele, happened to be considered OP by the community. I see now.

Why roll a thief to get around a map largely unnoticed?
Then why roll a class other than Mesmer if you like the idea of porting groups of people around the map?
You choose the best class for the job obviously!

No doubt that’s true. That’s exactly what we are discussing. If you feel that every class should have only a small niche of roles available to them and that that’s ok, good for you. Unfortunately, Anet has gone on record stating they want classes to have different roles, that our experience should depend on the player and not the choice of class. Currently, this is not the case, which some people dislike. That’s why this thread exists.

You didn’t mention GvG, so what?
You’re talking about Thieves regularly killing groups.
By GvG I wasn’t talking about organised events by the Windmill where this situation wouldn’t occur, but rather the guilds, small or large, roaming the maps for encounters with similar sized groups, who produce videos of their encounters and discuss them in the forums.

Oddly I’ve never seen them whining that they got wiped by a thief before they got started, or a thief spoiled their night.

Because it’s nothing more than yet another red herring. Nothing you’ve stated refutes any of my points, and you even acknowledge the advantage held by one class over others. This leaves me confused as to why you stated I was “missing some points”, but ok.

Since we aren’t talking about “GvG” in the strictest term, I’m also somewhat confused by your statement. There are people whining about Thieves on this forum all the time – just in threads dedicated to them. I’ve even participated in these roaming events as a Thief with a few of my friends where we occasionally run into other small groups – when we win, we get some loot, when we lose, we just run away. I have everything to gain, and nothing to lose. Things might be different for me if I had chosen another class. That’s what we’re talking about.

Now go ahead and pick the bones out of that if you like. It seems you’re more of a troll than any thief I saw.

I guess that’s why I rolled Thief.

As an update to my earlier posts, I would like to point out that snowleapard form is superior to normal thief run away ability as demonstrated in this video, where a thief uses it to run away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

wish.3102:

…

Don’t make jokes, u want to play ranger, warrior, etc or leopard class? Besides it is completely useless with absurdly long cd and it doesn’t let you spy out thief.

draner.5213:

selan.8354:

Jinks.2057:

WTF are you doing in those 3 seconds to allow that “16k” damage to happen?

3 secs is an extremely long period of time

2 seconds stunned, 1 second trying to heal and phase retreat back…phase worked, heal failed… backstab heartseeker,heartseeker,heartseeker shadowstab heart seeker

And where exactly did this d/p thief’s 2 second stun come from? Note that BV is only 1.5, and maybe that seems nitpicky, but in a 3 second fight .5 sec makes quite the difference

how am i supposed to know….do i see his tool bar,nope and 0.5 sec is very nitpicky.if u get downed that quickly and cant use the skills=no chance

I don’t think Stealth in itself is broken.

Shadow Arts is a broken trait line though, and could use some nerfs. That being said, I feel that every bunker build needs to be nerfed because of condition damage. It’s so easy to just slap condition damage on a bunker build and be virtually unkillable while whittling down your opponents. The confusion nerf was a good start, but bunker rangers and P/D thieves need to get the same treatment. D/D eles also need a nerf to their damage.

Sin.4130:

wish.3102:

…

Don’t make jokes, u want to play ranger, warrior, etc or leopard class? Besides it is completely useless with absurdly long cd and it doesn’t let you spy out thief.

It’s purpose is to break combat at will and get away. You dont fight in snow leopard form. You have to use terrain and your common sense to do the rest, just like every thief ever in the history of this game. And you dont need to spy out thieves or whatever you said. If they attack you and youre going to lose, simply pop snow leopard and run away like they do. Thats what your problem with thief is isnt it? Well, I just showed you how to do it too, now you can stop QQing.