Guild Wars 2

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

buttski.6135:

Rezzet.3614:

look at pvp all you see is heartseek spamming noobs .

why are you whining then? who’s the worse noob? the guy spamming hss or the one getting killed by it?

Rezzet.3614:

yeah i forgot we have infinite dodge rolls

/sarcasm

learn to time dodges then. i know, running to the forums crying ‘op’ is easier.

my point is a traited thief wont lose all their initiative by spamming heartseeker

also it is just as ignorant to defend an op clas telling everyone else its their fault and to l2p

OP class

OP=underpowered or what ?

Thief:

Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)
OP F1 abilities /sarcasm
OP Utility slot skills /sarcasm

3x stealth abilities-1x weapon slot skill 2x utilities slot.

Yeah Thiefs Are OP !!!!

if they release a profession with 1 skill:

cast time 0,5
Deals 100.000 dmg
range 2000
AoE: 1000

Would not be OP aaccording to your list

Ungood.3054:

So far.. lets see the sides:

The need to revise Thief: The mechanic of being able to do high DPS mixed with stealth, gives a class an unfair advantage in combat. Combine this with the class having the means to quickly engage and disengage from combat, make it a very unbalanced class to fight in WvW.

Thief Defense: L2P Noob.

Lovely discussion you have going on here.

Can I tell you to L2Read then? I posted like a 15,000 word essay on how to kill thieves. An Anet DEV even posted about how to kill thieves and said they were bad. What more do you even want? L2P

Deniara Devious.3948:

I am sad to hear that you lost lots of people, but probably not as much as Desolation. We are outmanned even at prime time at our own borderlands. Here is quote from yesterday from our map chat from a fellow commander: “I am sick of 2 vs 20”.

Then move to NA T1 if you want balanced fights. send 40-50 active players to JQ, then like 30ish to BG, I think that might even up the EU numbers, thanks. If that doesnt do it send some more where theyre needed. When I talked to a guy in Iron about how they wanted to move here, thats exactly what I told them. Go ahead and move here, but tell your friends to move to the other NA servers, theres like no one on during EU except the crazy asian BG transfers who stay up all night.

Deniara Devious.3948:

I actually sincerely hope that the the top 4 tiers of NA will become as imbalanced as EU tier #1 and tier #9 has been for months.

Thats a pretty horrible thing to say, even Iron couldnt hack it and left. And seriously, you guys on Deso asked for it. How long were you recruiting for because you wanted to go to T1 and try your luck against what you knew those frenchies were like? You could of not recruited so much and stayed in T3 or whatever and had your balanced match up. You made your own bed and all that.

wish.3102:

Ungood.3054:

So far.. lets see the sides:

The need to revise Thief: The mechanic of being able to do high DPS mixed with stealth, gives a class an unfair advantage in combat. Combine this with the class having the means to quickly engage and disengage from combat, make it a very unbalanced class to fight in WvW.

Thief Defense: L2P Noob.

Lovely discussion you have going on here.

L2P

Noted and thanks.

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

buttski.6135:

Rezzet.3614:

look at pvp all you see is heartseek spamming noobs .

why are you whining then? who’s the worse noob? the guy spamming hss or the one getting killed by it?

Rezzet.3614:

yeah i forgot we have infinite dodge rolls

/sarcasm

learn to time dodges then. i know, running to the forums crying ‘op’ is easier.

my point is a traited thief wont lose all their initiative by spamming heartseeker

also it is just as ignorant to defend an op clas telling everyone else its their fault and to l2p

OP class

OP=underpowered or what ?

Thief:

Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)
OP F1 abilities /sarcasm
OP Utility slot skills /sarcasm

3x stealth abilities-1x weapon slot skill 2x utilities slot.

Yeah Thiefs Are OP !!!!

Weakest healing? I’ll give that to the Engineer. Mine can heal just fine.

Medium Armor – Rangers, Engineers, Thieves

Least Health pool? – You chose that. Mine runs around with around 20,000 health.

Middle Mobility – Excuse me?? Mine can weave in and around combat dropping caltrops galore, jump in real fast and exit real fast.

Zero Invulnerable Abilities: Hmm….while stealthed cannot be target by direct fire weapons even if you’re standing 1mm in front of an engineers shotgun blast.

Zero boons: Who cares?

Heibi.4251:

Zero Invulnerable Abilities: Hmm….while stealthed cannot be target by direct fire weapons even if you’re standing 1mm in front of an engineers shotgun blast.
Zero boons: Who cares?

Joke of the day. Engineer with zero CD on swap weapon say this drivel ?

Of course, the engineer has no aoe skills L2P problem is detected

Thieves:

- Last (or almost last) option in PvE.
- Last (or almost last) option in PvP metagame.
- Quite balanced with several classes in 1vs1.

Even if thieves do not contribute clearly to PvE dungeons, even if they are not selected in the current PvP environment and even if there are several better classes in 1VS1. Even if all this stuff occurs you want to delete the just one activity in which thief shines, to evade fights.

Well done mates, you really got the whole picture.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Evilek.5690:

Heibi.4251:

Zero Invulnerable Abilities: Hmm….while stealthed cannot be target by direct fire weapons even if you’re standing 1mm in front of an engineers shotgun blast.
Zero boons: Who cares?

Joke of the day. Engineer with zero CD on swap weapon say this drivel ?

Of course, the engineer has no aoe skills L2P problem is detected

And yet another L2P answer. No defense that can be offered, use the noob reply. Standard.

The engineer needs to have that little explosion available. Unlike Rangers, Elementalists and such, it’s not that simple of an aoe solution. Anyone stupid enough to walk into the middle of an engineer turret-fest needs to L2P – it usually only takes one turret cluster bomb. I do love exploding turrets, but that wasn’t what I was talking about in the THIEF thread. A thief is invulnerable to any direct fire damage while stealthed. If it can’t be targeted it can’t be damaged. And even better for the thief, We don’t get to see that lovely little “invulnerable” message popping up on the screen as our fire passes through the invisible, vapor-like thief.

And instead of using the L2P answer, try offering the answer, or pointing someone to the wiki answer on GW2. That would show that you actually know how to play and how to be a polite “neighbor”. Good players help others.

Haltair.3062:

Thieves:

- Last (or almost last) option in PvE.
- Last (or almost last) option in PvP metagame.
- Quite balanced with several classes in 1vs1.

Even if thieves do not contribute clearly to PvE dungeons, even if they are not selected in the current PvP environment and even if there are several better classes in 1VS1. Even if all this stuff occurs you want to delete the just one activity in which thief shines, to evade fights.

Well done mates, you really got the whole picture.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Don’t worry. Thieves will forever rule in WvW — ANet has made that abundantly clear.

I love how all thief haters/complainers simply ignored the comments of one of the devs(Robert hrouder) of how he has no trouble dealing with thiefs on his ranger. They have also been saying the only respones from thief players is l2p when there have been several helpful post on how to combat thiefs. Seems like a lot of narrow minded stubborn people rather just cry for nerf than learn how to fight thief.

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

This is not FPS or Singleplayer, this is MMO RPG

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

NO. The main purpose in WvW is to take objectives (towers/keeps). Albeit, you have to kill your enemies and break down the door however I highly doubt a solo person dying to a thief vastly alter the outcome of a WvW match.

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

This is not FPS or Singleplayer, this is MMO RPG

So way they are planning to put duels when thief is roaming master? I remember you felt so OP before our duel, probably by easy thief rides.

vincecontix.1264:

I love how all thief haters/complainers simply ignored the comments of one of the devs(Robert hrouder) of how he has no trouble dealing with thiefs on his ranger. They have also been saying the only respones from thief players is l2p when there have been several helpful post on how to combat thiefs. Seems like a lot of narrow minded stubborn people rather just cry for nerf than learn how to fight thief.

I didnt ignore his comments. I read a lot of his ignorance on engineers in those same comments so I take his PvP experience with a grain of salt.

MIrra.3604:

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

NO. The main purpose in WvW is to take objectives (towers/keeps). Albeit, you have to kill your enemies and break down the door however I highly doubt a solo person dying to a thief vastly alter the outcome of a WvW match.

If you will kill same size enemy zerg in field only due to better skills all time they will probably lose all match.

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

This is not FPS or Singleplayer, this is MMO RPG

So way they are planning to put duels when thief is roaming master? I remember you felt so OP before our duel, probably by easy thief rides.

Our duel was a warrior vs. warrior, what has this to do with a thief?

Are you one of those players who can no stop complaining about the forum, but I’ve seen you in the game last week once

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

Evilek.5690:

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

This is not FPS or Singleplayer, this is MMO RPG

So way they are planning to put duels when thief is roaming master? I remember you felt so OP before our duel, probably by easy thief rides.

Our duel was a warrior vs. warrior, what has this to do with a thief?

You told me you can beat me with anything.

Sin.4130:

@Evilek.5690
Main purpose is to kill your opponent, and here all chances should be equal. I m sure thief will be nerfed but ANet can’t learn from others in business and this will cost them lot.

Are you kidding?
A tank guardian can not have the same chances than a support elementalist in killing an opponent.
An AoE based class should not have the same burst damage than a focus on one class.
And so on…
WvW is not a 1VS1 arena, and even in this field there are better classes in the field. Just talk with our Fencing Master Tiki, one of the most reknown thieves in higher tiers. He can explain you the mechanism below several classes that make them much better suited to 1Vs1.
As stated, there is one scenario in which thief shines: high mobility plus several stealth skills make them the best evasion class. Deal with it.
And remember that thieves are:

- Almost last option for PvE.
- Almost last option for PvP metagame.
- In the average talking about 1vs1 encounters.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Evilek.5690:

Rezzet.3614:

buttski.6135:

Rezzet.3614:

look at pvp all you see is heartseek spamming noobs .

why are you whining then? who’s the worse noob? the guy spamming hss or the one getting killed by it?

Rezzet.3614:

yeah i forgot we have infinite dodge rolls

/sarcasm

learn to time dodges then. i know, running to the forums crying ‘op’ is easier.

my point is a traited thief wont lose all their initiative by spamming heartseeker

also it is just as ignorant to defend an op clas telling everyone else its their fault and to l2p

OP class

OP=underpowered or what ?

Thief:

Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)
OP F1 abilities /sarcasm
OP Utility slot skills /sarcasm

3x stealth abilities-1x weapon slot skill 2x utilities slot.

Yeah Thiefs Are OP !!!!

Holy kitten that is probably the most kitten post i have seen in ages, most of the stuff you say there is not true not even close to it.

I kill thieves i come across but im 100% sure a good one will be able to kill me due to the class being very strong(and ive played one, my first lv80 was a thief)
And really.. how can you write that and think anyone can take you seriously!?!

If this is really your opinion then i think you are completely ignorant in every way possible..

yet all he had listed were true

Im not here to complain about thieves…..If they nerf my enemies…they also nerf my teammates. but Im not sure I agree with middle DPS….built right, they can have crazy burst damage. Damage over time….not so much. but if the damage is good enough and fast enough to drop a dude before his buddies can stop it. Get away long enough to reset…Id say thats pretty good.

then again…im a mesmer. And peeps, “mesmers” been complaining about nerfed phantasms n such. And I dont see the weakness in them. My phantasms seem to be dropping dudes health bars like lead balloons.

I guess im just a “glass is half full” kind of guy

Evilek.5690:

You are kidding ?

Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowsteps to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

I have no idea where you got this. This is the official Thief description:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Nothing there about being supposedly deadly in one to one combat.

Also. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

This right there means that Rangers should have a means to counter stealth via their pets/abilities/spirits, as that would be “Adapting to any situation”

Just putting that out there.

Brassnautilus.2941:

yet all he had listed were true

no its not or completely out of context

weakest heal: no, compare base values, add 3 sec stealth
(overall healing you say? -> apples and oranges)
hp: like ele & guardian
armor: like engi & ranger
zero boons: never felt the need thanks to stealth,theoretically able to transfer, F1,..
zero invulnerable: prefer ammount of stealth
middle mobility?!?!: seriously?
(besides he seems to mix up perma swiftness & mobility, mobility > swiftness)
middle dps: burst is king
i like this one -> 1-3 support abilities:
haha, as if any thief rolled his class because he wanted to support ^^
i know i did not ;p

/edit most importantly: always dramatizing everything -.-
even my post is not sufficiently put into context, but i couldn’t believe that he actually meant what he wrote

What makes Nerf required for Thiefs’

Let’s see..

Master of Steatlh> Ninja
http://www.cart-white.co.uk/ninja/stealth.htm

Master of Shadows and Critical Stabs > Assasins
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin

Master of Versatility > Elementalist
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/

(That was changed after the patch/nerf) they’re no long "Masters of Versatility

Does this sound good so far?

Well,

Not really because;

Thief is the only class in Mmo’s Gaming History whose designs, Traits, mechanics, abilities, whose Fully-Equipped with Extreme Damages.

In other word, Thief is the only Class/Profession in mmo’s history who has multiple class abilities, traits, mechanics, and designs “All Built In One”

The lists goes….

Master of…

*Moblities, Versatiliies, Shadows, Teleport, Clones, Stealths. Massive Single Attack, Condtions, Aoe, Dual-Weapon, Weapons Skills, etc.."

You can clearly see what this class is made of; with “Extreme Prejudice” and Superiority
————————

Try to put this together?

Mesmer+ Elementis+ Guardian+ Warrior+ Ranger+ Engineer+ Necromancer= what do you get?

This is quite too easy,

=Thief.

As the saying goes, Thief is “One Man Army”

You tell me, why Thief nerf shouldn’t be requirred?

Ungood.3054:

Evilek.5690:

You are kidding ?

Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowsteps to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

I have no idea where you got this. This is the official Thief description:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Nothing there about being supposedly deadly in one to one combat.

Also. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

This right there means that Rangers should have a means to counter stealth via their pets/abilities/spirits, as that would be “Adapting to any situation”

Just putting that out there.

Firt time play this game

@Evilek.5690

Someone just linked, this is official Robert Hrouda post:
“Most thieves don’t make it out of the lower tiers because you can mitigate them very easily. As a ranger I shut thieves down all the time who don’t use venoms, especially if you have something like healing spring and Lightning reflexes(…)”

Something is wrong here or you just don’t interpret word deadly properly. This kind of info means nothing.

Sin

As numerous times, many including myself had asked Mr.Robert Hrouda to post a territorial video’s of how to "shutting down thieves all the time who don’t use venoms, especially if you have something like healing spring and Lightning reflexes s(…)” thieves,.

And still to this day,

Nothing

As you already stated.

Burnfall.9573:

Sin

As numerous times, many including myself had asked Mr.Robert Hrouda to post a territorial video’s of how to "shutting down thieves all the time who don’t use venoms, especially if you have something like healing spring and Lightning reflexes s(…)” thieves,.

And still to this day,

Nothing

As you already stated.

Have a nice fun

@Burnfall

Of course this is fairy tales.
Deadly can be any glass cannon that’s what I meant. But only thief can use that build in WvW, maybe this is the meaning of that info…/sarcasm

Evilek.5690:

Thief:
Weakest healing in the game

This was a joke, wasn’t it?

Ever heared of the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait? It guarantees large hp regeneration everytime a thief uses stealth. The effect is: each stealth skill becomes a healing skill and since 95% of thieves use perma-stelath builds, most of them also theoretically can have perma-regeneration.
But hey, why am i writing this. The part about the weakest healing was supposed to be a joke for sure.

Blankverse.4927:

Evilek.5690:

Thief:
Weakest healing in the game

This was a joke, wasn’t it?

Ever heared of the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait? It guarantees large hp regeneration everytime a thief uses stealth. The effect is: each stealth skill becomes a healing skill and since 95% of thieves use perma-stelath builds, most of them also theoretically can have perma-regeneration.
But hey, why am i writing this. The part about the weakest healing was supposed to be a joke for sure.

Only if you trait for it. Pretty sure it is a 30 point trait, but I could be wrong and it may be a 20 point trait.

Just because it is possible, doesn’t mean it has the best because some builds may go for it but otherwise, thief healing isn’t very good.

If it was that good, everyone would fit it in their build. There are several options in that particular line that are quite nice to have and you cannot fit them all in.

The joke is you people cherry picking one option out of all available and claiming that they have excellent healing.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Blankverse.4927:

Evilek.5690:

Thief:
Weakest healing in the game

This was a joke, wasn’t it?

Ever heared of the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait? It guarantees large hp regeneration everytime a thief uses stealth. The effect is: each stealth skill becomes a healing skill and since 95% of thieves use perma-stelath builds, most of them also theoretically can have perma-regeneration.
But hey, why am i writing this. The part about the weakest healing was supposed to be a joke for sure.

Only if you trait for it. Pretty sure it is a 30 point trait, but I could be wrong and it may be a 20 point trait.

Just because it is possible, doesn’t mean it has the best because some builds may go for it but otherwise, thief healing isn’t very good.

If it was that good, everyone would fit it in their build. There are several options in that particular line that are quite nice to have and you cannot fit them all in.

The joke is you people cherry picking one option out of all available and claiming that they have excellent healing.

If you don’t have 30 points in shadow arts, you are doing it wrong. :P

Blankverse.4927:

Evilek.5690:

Thief:
Weakest healing in the game

This was a joke, wasn’t it?

Ever heared of the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait? It guarantees large hp regeneration everytime a thief uses stealth. The effect is: each stealth skill becomes a healing skill and since 95% of thieves use perma-stelath builds, most of them also theoretically can have perma-regeneration.
But hey, why am i writing this. The part about the weakest healing was supposed to be a joke for sure.

Thief:
423 heal per sec (in stealth) with full heal traits
Hide in Shadows Healing: 5,240 (1.0)? Regeneration: 4 s (520 health) 30 sec CD

Heal per one min 35860 ( thief must in stealth all time)

Guardian:

Virtue of Resolve: Passive Regeneration: Healing: 84 (0.06)? 60x 5040
Signet of Resolve: Healing: 8,150 (1.25)? 32 sec CD 2x 16300
Pure of Heart: Healing: 645 (0.1)? aegis CD 2x 1290
Virtue of Courage:Grants aegis every forty seconds. + activate
Selfless Daring: 325 per roll 6x 1950

Faithful Strike: every 2 sec Hit your foe with a final strike and heal nearby allies.
Damage: 470 Healing: 463 (0.18)? 20x 9290

Symbol of Faith:Smash a mystic symbol onto the ground that damages foes and regenerates allies. Damage: 168 4 Regeneration: 1 s (520 health)Radius: 120Duration: 4 s Combo Field: Light Range: 120 8sec CD 4x per onespell 2080 5x 10400

Heal Area: Healing: 1,000 Range: 1,200 15x 15000
Protective Spirit: Protection: 10 s Regeneration: 10 s (1300 health) Range: 1,200 1x 1300
Light of Deliverance: Fully heal up to five nearby allies 18500

Heal per one min 79070, 80% from this healing have AOE effect.

Ranger,Ele comming soon

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

DeadlySynz.3471:

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.

DeadlySynz.3471:

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

I agree with the sPvP and WvW assessment.

I don’t agree with changing the thief class though.

Thieves can beat me easily when I don’t have mace/mace as my second weapon set so I generally just leave them alone. Sure, they follow me to where I’m going but they cannot kill me unless they have help or I decide to give it a go without mace/mace as my second set. I run hammer/sword+horn and the sword/horn is for mobility, much more important than being geared for 1v1. If I could carry a third weapon set, I’d be set since I’d be able to run mace/mace and hammer and just stun lock them till they die.

Master of Timespace.2548:

DeadlySynz.3471:

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.

Do you realize that most people (or small groups for that matter), don’t like that type of disadvantage in WvW? Sorry but that group outnumbers yours. As many have said before, you could just L2P when the time comes.

Too many people bringing to light the problems with the thief class. It’s going to be changed whether you like it or not.

What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should). This could effectively ruin stealth as long as rangers are around. This to me the most likely change that’s going to happen, seeing as ranger pets need buffs and what’s more fitting than to have some pets just auto-detect stealth..

Question is, when that happens.. what are you going to do? L2P or QQ?

DeadlySynz.3471:

Master of Timespace.2548:

DeadlySynz.3471:

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.

Do you realize that most people (or small groups for that matter), don’t like that type of disadvantage in WvW? Sorry but that group outnumbers yours. As many have said before, you could just L2P when the time comes.

Too many people bringing to light the problems with the thief class. It’s going to be changed whether you like it or not.

What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should). This could effectively ruin stealth as long as rangers are around. This to me the most likely change that’s going to happen, seeing as ranger pets need buffs and what’s more fitting than to have some pets just auto-detect stealth..

Question is, when that happens.. what are you going to do? L2P or QQ?

Rangers pets need boost ?
Of corse only 20k HP and 2-4.5k crit DMG is so weak =(

Deniara Devious.3948:

…Stealth stomp should not work. This should of course affect all professions e.g. mesmers and engineers also denied of doing stealth stomps…

Oh yes, we definitely NEED another nerf, so incredibly OP.

Lol.

-An Engineer.

lunyboy.8672:

Deniara Devious.3948:

…Stealth stomp should not work. This should of course affect all professions e.g. mesmers and engineers also denied of doing stealth stomps…

Oh yes, we definitely NEED another nerf, so incredibly OP.

Lol.

-An Engineer.

I actually agree with this one, but with a minor tweak.

I don’t think stomping should work in ANY non-normal state. That includes Stealth, Death Shroud, Mist Form, Invulnerable, Distorted, or anything else (other than Stability).

I’ve abused most of these to get stomps, and I think they just encourage bad group play. My group should be CCing so someone else can get stomps.

But that’s not likely to happen, so I don’t really care if Stealth Stomps are still in. As long as I keep my Mist Form, Death Shroud, or Shrink Potion stomps then it’s all fair.

Personally I don’t mind tieves dmg or mobility. The only thing that kittening annoys me is perma stealth. Today we capped tower and the thief ran in in last secound. We saw him. Then it took us (15 organized ppl) like 10 min to kill him! kittening perma stealth conected with best mobility in game makes it just stupid. What should we do? Ask zerg to come coz we don’t have enough aoe to cover all place?

PinCushion.7390:

lunyboy.8672:

Deniara Devious.3948:

…Stealth stomp should not work. This should of course affect all professions e.g. mesmers and engineers also denied of doing stealth stomps…

Oh yes, we definitely NEED another nerf, so incredibly OP.

Lol.

-An Engineer.

I actually agree with this one, but with a minor tweak.

I don’t think stomping should work in ANY non-normal state. That includes Stealth, Death Shroud, Mist Form, Invulnerable, Distorted, or anything else (other than Stability).

I’ve abused most of these to get stomps, and I think they just encourage bad group play. My group should be CCing so someone else can get stomps.

But that’s not likely to happen, so I don’t really care if Stealth Stomps are still in. As long as I keep my Mist Form, Death Shroud, or Shrink Potion stomps then it’s all fair.

Mostly in WvW, I have learned to DPS down, because stomps on several classes are impractical, and I don’t slot Elixir S as much any more because of the last nerf.

It doesn’t matter to me what people use or don’t use when stomping my Engie, because our downed state is pretty horrible, something like a thief blind or a stealth doesn’t matter and just adds insult to injury.

PinCushion.7390:

lunyboy.8672:

Deniara Devious.3948:

…Stealth stomp should not work. This should of course affect all professions e.g. mesmers and engineers also denied of doing stealth stomps…

Oh yes, we definitely NEED another nerf, so incredibly OP.

Lol.

-An Engineer.

I actually agree with this one, but with a minor tweak.

I don’t think stomping should work in ANY non-normal state. That includes Stealth, Death Shroud, Mist Form, Invulnerable, Distorted, or anything else (other than Stability).

I’ve abused most of these to get stomps, and I think they just encourage bad group play. My group should be CCing so someone else can get stomps.

But that’s not likely to happen, so I don’t really care if Stealth Stomps are still in. As long as I keep my Mist Form, Death Shroud, or Shrink Potion stomps then it’s all fair.

I know engineer has been the most nerfed profession in the game. 30th April patch reduced confusion damage 50%, pretty much destroyed Elixir S and ruined 3 survivability traits, plus took out significant source of dmg by nerfing incendiary powder trait. Yet at the same time pretty much every other profession, including the thief, got major buffs e.g. more powerful signets and thieves got larcenous strike. Engineer generally ends up “balanced” in a way, which completely destroys builds and reduces build versatility e.g. Kit Refinement damage and the infamous 100 nades burst simply wasn’t just nerfed (e.g. sensible choice would have been 50% dmg reduction to Kit Refinement), instead of it was completely deleted from the game and engineers got gimmicky useless KR trait instead.

The “buffs” engineer has received have pretty much all been useless e.g. buffing the rocket, rifle and thumper turret still didn’t make these turrets viable in any form of the game. Some engineer traits, like scope, has been broken since day 1 and despite they have been reported countless of times, still no fix. Yet, when thief’s hidden killer trait was broken, it was fixed in 24 h. This just adds more fuel to the fumes, showing that Arenanet clearly loves the thief profession much more and doesn’t want engineer to be the best in anything. I would love to hear from the developers why the least played profession in pve and WvWvW gets constantly nerfed. While warriors and guardians, which are in top 3 WvWvW and pve professions got buffed in last patch. Where is the logic?

But I think the rules should be the same for all profession: Stealth stomping simply is unfair and bad for group play. Your allies are supposed to stop the enemy from stomping e.g. using knockdown, knock back, daze or other form of interrupt, but how is that supposed to work when the stomping attacker is using stealth.

I have a strong sense of fairness. I really want balance, but we are still far from reaching that goal.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Master of Timespace.2548:

DeadlySynz.3471:

What some people don’t get (mainly the L2P crowd), is that when you join WvW, you generally don’t trait your class for sPvP play; if your smart, you’ve traited it for group play.

If your traited for group play, you less than ineffective at sPvP. Thieves don’t seem to have any effective builds built for group play due to having the following as another poster pointed out:

“Weakest healing in the game
Least health pool
Medium armor
Zero boons abilities
Zero invulnerable abilities
Middle mobility
Middle DPS
1-3 support abilities (two make only stealth,one block projectile)”

This forces thieves into sPvP which immediately puts anyone traited for group play at a severe disadvantage. This furthers the effect from the ability to enter and leave combat at will or reset the fight as many times as needed as so many have pointed out. Combined with the fact that the stealth is so effective, they can essentially go full zerker without any worries of ever dying.

Bottom line, thieves have nothing effective in group play and this really need to be adjusted. Their sPvP play needs to be brought down a couple of notches while their group effectiveness needs to be raised a couple of notches.

I’m well aware that classes like rangers, guardians, and warriors (if traited properly) could probably wipe the floor with thieves easily; but, you’ll rarely find them traited for this in WvW. If they are traited for sPvP in WvW, then their aren’t doing themselves, or their groups any favors.

Oh bull crap. I don’t want them to turn my thief into another #1 spamming warrior. Do realise that some people prefer roaming & harrassing over mindless blobbing, even when you do not.

Do you realize that most people (or small groups for that matter), don’t like that type of disadvantage in WvW? Sorry but that group outnumbers yours. As many have said before, you could just L2P when the time comes.

Too many people bringing to light the problems with the thief class. It’s going to be changed whether you like it or not.

What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should). This could effectively ruin stealth as long as rangers are around. This to me the most likely change that’s going to happen, seeing as ranger pets need buffs and what’s more fitting than to have some pets just auto-detect stealth..
Question is, when that happens.. what are you going to do? L2P or QQ?

lol
“What I think will happen, is some ranger pets are going to be able to just auto-detect stealth at all times (like they should)”
obvious troll is obvious.

Evilek.5690:

Ungood.3054:

Evilek.5690:

You are kidding ?

Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowsteps to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

I have no idea where you got this. This is the official Thief description:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/thief/

Experts at stealth and surprise, thieves can move through the shadows, vanish into thin air, or steal items from their opponents and use them as weapons. Thieves practice an agile, acrobatic fighting style, which can make them very hard to hit.

Nothing there about being supposedly deadly in one to one combat.

Also. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.

This right there means that Rangers should have a means to counter stealth via their pets/abilities/spirits, as that would be “Adapting to any situation”

Just putting that out there.

Firt time play this game

Umm

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/72377/gw171.jpg

The description there Isn’t what you wrote either.

Just saying.

Thread highlights:

1. Thief has mediocre mobility
2. Ranger is weak

That’s gold.

Deniara Devious.3948:

So let me rephrase this logic:
1. Everybody should play a thief to learn to counter them. And equip their character accordingly. Or they deserve to die to a button masher

If youre having problems with a class, then yes, this is the first thing you should do. Its not like looking up a build, watching youtube videos for 20-30 min to get a decent idea what to do and then taking it into sPVP for an afternoon is hard or anything…

Learning about other classes moves and how to counter them and knowing ahead of time what theyre likely to do is something good players find to be a standard thing to do. You wanna go into a fight and mash buttons and not care what your opponent does and still win I see, so I guess this skill based game isnt for you, have you ever thought about Hello Kitty Island Advanture? I think that might be more your speed since you dont want to put in any effort to learning about what the classes youll be fighting can do.

Caffynated.5713:

1. Thief has mediocre mobility

A thiefs ability to move from point A to point B is slower than most other classes, the only reason people think this isnt true is because you cant always tell which direction a thief is moving, and they have a habit of turning 90 degrees after stealthing to confuse their pursuers.

wish.3102:

Deniara Devious.3948:

So let me rephrase this logic:
1. Everybody should play a thief to learn to counter them. And equip their character accordingly. Or they deserve to die to a button masher

If youre having problems with a class, then yes, this is the first thing you should do. Its not like looking up a build, watching youtube videos for 20-30 min to get a decent idea what to do and then taking it into sPVP for an afternoon is hard or anything…

Learning about other classes moves and how to counter them and knowing ahead of time what theyre likely to do is something good players find to be a standard thing to do. You wanna go into a fight and mash buttons and not care what your opponent does and still win I see, so I guess this skill based game isnt for you, have you ever thought about Hello Kitty Island Advanture? I think that might be more your speed since you dont want to put in any effort to learning about what the classes youll be fighting can do.

Caffynated.5713:

1. Thief has mediocre mobility

A thiefs ability to move from point A to point B is slower than most other classes, the only reason people think this isnt true is because you cant always tell which direction a thief is moving, and they have a habit of turning 90 degrees after stealthing to confuse their pursuers.

shortbow 5, shadowstepping, sword 2,dagger 2, steal, 25% speed signet, stealth.
Maybe getting from A—>B just running you might feel slower if you weren’t running shortbow, in a fight, you have one of the best movement from your mechanics (shadowsteps/stealths) You have an easy time engaging and disengaging from fights, it’s easier to avoid attacks, it’s easier to juke your opponent. It’s kitten fun fighting a thief who can juke too.

My 2 cents about thieves in WvW…

They should not be allowed to remain cloaked while FINISHING someone.

It’s gotten past the annoying part now…

Terkov.4138

Personally I don’t mind tieves dmg or mobility. The only thing that kittening annoys me is perma stealth. Today we capped tower and the thief ran in in last secound. We saw him. Then it took us (15 organized ppl) like 10 min to kill him! kittening perma stealth conected with best mobility in game makes it just stupid. What should we do? Ask zerg to come coz we don’t have enough aoe to cover all place?

Anti stealth Trap and your done