Guild Wars 2

Can we not get more high tech models for Asuran Engineer turrets? Feels so weird being a technological advanced race, and then throwing down these poorly built looking turrets.

Asura use magitech. it’s not neccesarily more technologically advanced. Just based in magic where as iron legion tech uses no magic. that being said, the engineer class is a class based on iron legion tech. not just any tech from any race. that’s why asuran golemancers and inventors aren’t counted among engineers since all asura would be an engineer.

My point is not the difference between magitech and iron legion tech. My point is that you would think an Asuran that chose to be an engineer would be capable of creating turrets that at least looked a little more advanced.

What I’m saying is that what you call "more advanced’ isn’t really more advanced. asura aren’t more advanced. they just use different technology. So an asuran engineer uses clockwork and steam tech. not the magitech the asuran culture is known for. So it should and does look like clockwork and steam tech. not magitech.

Sorry, but Asuran tech is more advanced. That’s a bit obvious. And just because engineers from other races use clockwork and steam tech, doesn’t mean that an Asura would abandon the great magitech at his disposal to go and use clockwork and steam like all the other races, the very same races they see themselves intellectually superior to.

that’s exactly what they did. Asura tech is magitech. That’s undisputed. Arbitrarliy assigning an imaginary quotient of "more advanced’ is ridiculous. But let’s talk about what really matters. Steam and clockwork tech is not magitech. Engineer class doesn’t use magitech. if any individual asura is unwilling to work with steam and clockwork tech then they aren’t engineers. they are any other asura inventor who isn’t part of the engineer class.

so what you seem to mean by a “more advanced” look is a magitech look. but that wouldn’t be an engineer class look because engineers don’t specialize in magitech. The iron legion spearheaded this tech and the other races have picked up on it because of it’s usefulness. that’s the lore. The engineer class doesn’t mean any old tech from any old race. it is specific to steam and clockwork tech that isn’t really less advanced than magitech because asura havn’t been shown to ever need to develop any tech without magic involved. asura engineers can still use some tech from their own race in the form of racials but their class is highly invested in iron legion tech.

DeBussy: Where did the Engineer come from? Is there a connection to lore, like some sort of academy that first specialized in educating Engineers?

Eric Flannum: Engineer technology really developed with the Charr first and foremost. And its one of the specialties developed by the Charr Iron Legion. When we talk about the Engineer he is very much a Combat-Engineer and good in inventing things that are useful in a combat situation. The Iron Legion is the start of all of this, and the Engineer profession has spread to the other races from there. The People of Tyria have seen it in combat over the past few years and have seen the effectiveness of an engineer. And so you are going to see Engineers of all races although it is a little bit more common to see a Charr Engineer than anybody else. So it all started with the Charr and their technological development.
http://www.wartower.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=562

What? Of course asura are more technologically advanced.
They have golems, asura gates, a floating city, giant laser cannons, energy reactors and even force fields.

define “More technologically advanced” please. because it implies moving beyond charr tech but nothing indicates they ever had charr tech. They have magitech which is half magic. If magic is counted as technology than a city of mages may well be more advanced with elementals and portals and floating cities and magic force fields and magic fire balls flying around. but it wouldn’t be more technologicvally advanced. In fact I think we have a city like that don’t we?

edit: in fact, when a-net explains the increase of technological advancement between GW1 and GW2, they always refer back to the charr. But asura golems, gates, floating city, giant laser cannons, energy reactors and even force fields are all magitech. they never had charr tech because under ground, they had a source of magic to power magitech. Iron legion tech is very new to them along with every other playable race.

Dustfinger.9510:

define “More technologically advanced” please.

Asura can make what Charr can make.
Charr cannot make what Asura can make.

Mif.3471:

Dustfinger.9510:

define “More technologically advanced” please.

Asura can make what Charr can make.
Charr cannot make what Asura can make.

That means sylvari are more advanced than asura. And asura don’t have tanks.

Makes dredge more advanced as well since they have sonic technology. And puts the Flame Legion as more technologically advanced than the Iron Legion because they now have their own magitech.

Dustfinger.9510:

Mif.3471:

Dustfinger.9510:

define “More technologically advanced” please.

Asura can make what Charr can make.
Charr cannot make what Asura can make.

That means sylvari are more advanced than asura. And asura don’t have tanks.

Sylvari can’t make what Asura make, thereby Sylvari can’t be considered more advanced.

And I wouldn’t call tanks a huge technological exclusive.
They’re more or less just a Golem battlesuit on wheels.

They should make a slot for turrets, so you can equip skin packs or something similar. Then you could have asuran magitech turrets, sylvari style plant turrets and so on.

More customization like this could be done for other classes too. Like shatter skins for mesmers, giving them things other than butterflies, or different styles of necro minions.

Needs to be said here, just needs to be :

“Technology that is sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic.”

Mif.3471:

Sylvari can’t make what Asura make, thereby Sylvari can’t be considered more advanced.

And I wouldn’t call tanks a huge technological exclusive.
They’re more or less just a Golem battlesuit on wheels.

Golems may serve some similar purposes but they are far from the same thing.

So you agree that because the flame legion can do what the iron legion can do in terms of having engineers, that they are more technologically advanced because the iron legion rejects magic on a large scale so limits it’s magical developemnt? And you would equate iron Legion tanks to the same technological level as Flame Legion effigies?

And Garenhoff, with it’s elemetals and floating castle is also more technologically advanced? Even though it is all magic?

I think a better way of phrasing this would be "Can asuran engineers get more asuran-styled turrets?" This gets to the desired goal without worrying about the semantics of "technologically advanced" discussion.

Shamans eventually got race-specific totems in WoW, perhaps someone on the GW2 art team will find a creative way for turrets to get differing skins by race.

Charr and Dredge have advanced to the industrial age

Asura have Advanced to the modern Age

Asura have floating cities Golems that can destroy Charr tank columns and giant city sized flying golems (tixx) i think its easy to see Asura are the pinnacle of technology in Tyria

At this point it’s basically arguing semantics(log). Modern age versus industrial age, more advanced versus less advanced, it’s all irrelevant to the core of the matter.

The point is “should different races have different looking turrets?”

I’m willing to say yes to the asura part of this, but there are also some difficulties in implementing it. First one I can think of (and the only one I’ll jot down; haven’t had breakfast or coffee yet) is that if one race gets unique looking turrets, every race needs to have them. For the sylvari, sure, that’s easy. There’s already a seed turret in the game, so with a few variations on the skin that’s sorted. Asura, also easy, just make variations of things like the asura lightning turret. Charr, that’s the design we know now. Humans and norn, though, don’t really have any technology to speak of that isn’t directly taken from the charr. That’d be a bit harder to pull off.

Just, please cease arguing semantics(log).

Jigain.8231:

if one race gets unique looking turrets, every race needs to have them

I’ve actually thought the same thing for a while

We already have several (?) Asura turret models in game, but if ArenaNet were to let Asura Engineers use them, the amount of QQ from other races as to why they don’t get their own turret models would be immense.

So in conclusion: blame bookahs.

both norn and human have very specific art styles to there armor. should be easy enough to apply those to turrets.

this has to be at least the 100th time this topic has been created.

We don’t use metemystics in our modern technology.
I still disagree that asura are even technologicaly advanced by todays standards because they use magitech. which is half magic. Golems are magical constructs, not technological robots. they are closer to flame legion effigies than anything we have today IRL. They are powered by magic and in some cases, fused with souls in ordewr to operate. So it isn’t pure technological development. It’s magical development with some technology involved. They study metemystics to make their tech operate. which, when broken down, means the study of mystics.

But, addressing the question of whether engineers should have turrets tailored to their particular race, I used to think that they should. There’s some old posts of mine that say so. What changed my mind is when I started digging into engineer lore, I discovered that a-net specifically ordained all engineers to be using iron legion tech because iron legion pioneered the class. They use the iron legion and it’s class that they pioneered as the prime example and poster child of how technology has advanced in Tyria. so, knowing this is the lore, the steampunk tech of asura engineers fits the lore. even inquest use iron legion tech as well as magitech turrets. which furthers the idea that iron legion tech is new to asura. Not something they used to have and gave up because it became outdated.

Dustfinger.9510:

I discovered that a-net specifically ordained all engineers to be using iron legion tech because iron legion pioneered the class. […] the steampunk tech of asura engineers fits the lore. even inquest use iron legion tech as well as magitech turrets. which furthers the idea that iron legion tech is new to asura. Not something they used to have and gave up because it became outdated.

That is assuming asuran engineers do not innovate. Which would be against asuran nature to begin with; they acquire, improve, and re-re-release. Such is their society.

Yes, steampunk might’ve suited asura engineers once, but we built a floating city out of what was once but a theorem by a Statics runt who was ridiculed for his desire to make items float. Geniuses do not settle for “working”.

I still stand by my previous point, however, that race-specific turrets are not currently possible from a technical standpoint. Lore-wise there is a basis, if not a requirement, for it – but we must all use some degree of suspension of disbelief already, so one more thing should not be too much to ask.

Taken with the other evidence, I don’t think it assumes that asura don’t innovate. without the other evidence, it could go either way but taken wit hthe other evidence, it seems asura are in the midst of innovating. They just haven’t made it as far as some posters would like yet. (Other evidence being a-net naming the iron legion as the poster child of tyrian technological advancement and the engineer class as prime demonstration)

Asura have racials, so that is the beginning of the innovation. The inquest, which is by far the most progressive meta crew in the culture uses both magitech turrets and clockwork turrets. The rest of the asura, are often times highly protective of their innovations. They don’t market and share everything like we do. that menas tech moves through the society at a slower rate if you aren’t Inquest. And not surprisingly, Inquest is the only ones we see to utilize both magitech and clockwork turrets.

So taken with the knowledge of a-nets intentions, it is less assumption of asuran lack of innovation and more logical conclusion that asura just didn’t have the tech before.

Apart from whole theoretical discussion – Asuras actually have turrets. Mostly shooting with lightnings and not bullets, but the look is there already. And even if there were not, there’s a plenty of opportunity to make Asuran turrets and fit them into their architecture and tech.

As a wannabe be concept artist (and asuran engi at the same time) I can take the challenge – it’s fun and a great practice. I’ll try to make more polished ones but not at this very moment (you know, it’s 2 AM in here already).

dadamowsky.4692:

Apart from whole theoretical discussion – Asuras actually have turrets. Mostly shooting with lightnings and not bullets, but the look is there already. And even if there were not, there’s a plenty of opportunity to make Asuran turrets and fit them into their architecture and tech.

As a wannabe be concept artist (and asuran engi at the same time) I can take the challenge – it’s fun and a great practice. I’ll try to make more polished ones but not at this very moment (you know, it’s 2 AM in here already).

I love that top left. Would make a great Thumper Turret.

I’d pay gems for Asura-style skins for the flamethrower and alchemy gun.

I’m torn on the idea of “Asura tech” turrets and kits for Asura Engineers.

On one hand, the current steampunk models don’t exactly fit perfectly. I mean, I don’t think they’re completely bad as they are right now given the class origin thing, they’re just slightly off. It would fit much better to have floaty cube looking turrets or whatever than the current models. Not to mention they’d look better in general (though that has more to do with most of the current turrets looking like garbage, like the toilet paper tubes on a stick Rocket Turret).

On the other hand, it seems like giving one single race of one single class different skill models would be showing a bit too much favoritism. Why should Asura Engineers get special treatment in the form of all-new skill models? Then would Sylvari Engineers need to get plant-based turrets? Norns get even more primitive turrets powered by the spirits? Humans get “modern” looking turrets? And what about other classes, do Charr Warriors get their own banner models? Maybe the Ranger spirits are “too Sylvari” and we need the Norn Rangers to get spirit wolfs instead of spirit trees. How about Guardian weapons, those look kind of krytan in design, so maybe Sylvari Guardians should have plant-based spirit weapons.

Mind you, some of the above are also cool ideas, but it quickly turns into a downward spiral where everyone wants their class skills to “match” their race perfectly and creates a need for a ton of changes, or ends up having some classes / races feel favored over others.

This isn’t just an issue with Asura; all races would construct these devices differently.

Engineering advancement is about achieving an end product which works as it needs to. But different races would create this end product with different resources. Sylvari and Asuran turrets in particular should look very different from the standard model. Charr turrets could use stylistic refinement too, while only small changes would be needed for human and norn