Guild Wars 2

I think they should make the Norn Transformations more like a second set of weapons and actually be funner, like a tool-kit style more then anything else.

This means you would still be able to use your 6-7-8-9 abilities, however your (elite) would be on toggle.

It wouldn’t be as damaging or powerful, but it would allow the norn to stay permamently changed if they wanted to. This would add flavor to the norns.

Question: Do I use Norn elites?
Answer: No

Also, there are other problems than duration, such as loosing your heal and utilities. On Ranger I loose my pet…

But Norn’s been crying about transformations since release and devs don’t care…

I’d just like to chalk this up as lazy, uninspired and unfinished

InB4 “wolf/leopard is handy in wvw”

Actually with his solution you’d still have your heal and utilities.

In fact if they just made it a toggle you could turn it off, heal, then turn it on. It’d be much more usable and fun.

However, I don’t see them addressing the issue with Norn skills any time soon.

Well they wouldn’t be as powerful as they are now, but they would be like an extra set of weapons. Like engineer tool-kits.

Zorby.8236:

I’d just like to chalk this up as lazy, uninspired and unfinished

Really feels that way.

I don’t think A-net will change it to be similar to engineers. They are really big on whether or not the arch-type is already filled.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/2094-room-for-future-races-and-classes/page__st__60#entry89820

Question: Do I use Norn elites?
Answer: No

on my first norn, i tried it out. thought more of that it is a powerup ON TOP of your normal skills, but…
i was pretty new to the game and got trapped…
never invested anymore any skillpoint so far on my other 3 norns

its a plain useless skin over time and as others said, it looks like halfa.r.s.e.d implementation.
they should it make plain simple with those elite skins.
u switch into form and get a powerup ontop of your normal bars.
what ever it is then, it will be better than replacing all skills as it is now.
imo even if its only 10 more for one stat it would be better.

owl and wurm on the other hand are great utilities for certain situations.

They could use some QOL improvements such as being able to attack on the move. I’ve found them very useful on some characters though. Bear form can make even a glass cannon tanky for 30 seconds, wolf form is a good general purpose battle form with a leap knockdown and 2 aoe CC skills plus a great heal, raven form is much more CC and movement control based, snow leapord is well known for it’s stealth and charge.

They are not meant to be competitive with other elites being racial elites, but fact is the Norn Racial elites are actually better than many class elites used right.

+1 Ralathar. good post

Indeed, something like engineer kits would be great. On-demand transformation like in ol’ good GW1 days. As of now, 80% of transformations are totally useless for 99% of the time. The ridiculously short duration is barely enough to read what each skill does, let alone do something meaningful with them. I honestly wonder what were devs thinking when they were making these skills. Was it: “Man these skills are so cool, they can’t be as strong as professions’ skill, but at least we’ll make them fun” or “Meh, who cares how they work, no one will use them anyway. I want my smoke break.”

I’m afraid it was the latter.

the norn transformations are bad on purpose. none of the racials were intended to be viable. they are just for flavor nothing more and thats how the devs want it. that being said having the norn transformations be permanent toggle able or last as long as a tonic would be sweet for RP and would make the race more distinct from humans as you would see norn fighting in animal form or running around lions arch transformed. would almost make up for the camera while jumping in puzzles.

^spoken like someone who’s never seen what a D-series Golem can really do…

Zorby.8236:

Question: Do I use Norn elites?
Answer: No

Also, there are other problems than duration, such as loosing your heal and utilities. On Ranger I loose my pet…

I’d be fine with all those downsides. What grinds my gears about it and forces me to use my profession Elites instead in like 90% of the content, is the fact that I’ll spend most of my time in Wereform on my BACK. why do piddly little rock elementals get Stability yet when I’m a Were’d out 16ft tall beast-of-nightmares, I get flopped around like a hacky sack??? I don’t get that time back either. I get to just lay there staring at my transformation time slipping away, wondering why the Devs won’t just change ONE LITTLE NUMBER in their spreadsheet under “Defiant” from a 0 to a 1. We’re not expecting 3 stacks like Champions get…

But Norn’s been crying about transformations since release and devs don’t care…

okay well that’s just depressing then… didn’t know how long it’s been mentioned here, not a regular reader or the species forums

(And no this isn’t “bumping” a dead thread you darn automated forum-bots, it’s still on the FRONT PAGE)

Ralathar.7236:

They could use some QOL improvements such as being able to attack on the move. I’ve found them very useful on some characters though. Bear form can make even a glass cannon tanky for 30 seconds, wolf form is a good general purpose battle form with a leap knockdown and 2 aoe CC skills plus a great heal, raven form is much more CC and movement control based, snow leapord is well known for it’s stealth and charge.

They are not meant to be competitive with other elites being racial elites, but fact is the Norn Racial elites are actually better than many class elites used right.

This. Especially the use skills on the move part; I’d like to add transform on the move, because standing still to shapeshift is usually horrible. If I could shapeshift mid-dodge… yeah, that would be nice.

My 2c.

Daecollo.9578:

I think they should make the Norn Transformations more like a second set of weapons and actually be funner, like a tool-kit style more then anything else.

This means you would still be able to use your 6-7-8-9 abilities, however your (elite) would be on toggle.

It wouldn’t be as damaging or powerful, but it would allow the norn to stay permamently changed if they wanted to. This would add flavor to the norns.

Racial abilities have been specifically toned down so that players aren’t pigeon-holed into specific races for their profession. In other words racial abilities are meant to be weaker than the abilities brought by choosing your profession. I will say however that Snow leopard is pretty strong for necromancers since it’s basically the only form of mobility available to necros, not to mention you can get 5sec of stealth off it too.

Well, asura or sylvari elites are much better than norn’s that’s for sure.

Fenrir.6183:

Well, asura or sylvari elites are much better than norn’s that’s for sure.

Maybe if you’re a Thief or Mesmer. Otherwise Snow Leopard is way, way more useful, giving you access to stealth and a charge. On my Necro, I’ve used the Sylvari elites once or twice and saw no advantage to them over the professional elites, in any situation.

A necro might be able to trait the werewolf’s lifesteal and fear… should work.

Druitt.7629:

Fenrir.6183:

Well, asura or sylvari elites are much better than norn’s that’s for sure.

Maybe if you’re a Thief or Mesmer. Otherwise Snow Leopard is way, way more useful, giving you access to stealth and a charge. On my Necro, I’ve used the Sylvari elites once or twice and saw no advantage to them over the professional elites, in any situation.

The asura golems are great. The sylvari still have some uses. I was comparing them to the norn elites, not the class elites.

Cirian.8917:

A necro might be able to trait the werewolf’s lifesteal and fear… should work.

I’m pure Blood & Daggers nec and see no point…
Not once you’ve unlocked Dhuum … er I mean Lich :p

But speaking of Wraiths… that’s the only use @ endgame I’ve found for Were…
Interrupting the champ’s Transfer when escorting Jonez…
(usaully b/c of other players not timing the Unshakable un-stacks properly)

I still think the norn elite skills should be reworked to be MUCH more useful. And I feel we should only have one. You know that question when you make your character to say which animal spirit you follow or whatever, what impact does that even have on the personal story?… why not make that depict which animal spirit you get as an elite skill and add 2 – 3 more USEFUL skills like the other classes.

Also the duration is far too short, 30 seconds of pointless combat with a 240 second cooldown?… wtf….

Norn’s doesn’t need any transformations. Norns must call this spirits as pets, not transform in them. There is no such thing as “Shaman”, but there are real totem spirits. Why can’t i call them? It would be soooo much more useful if they at least would have same skill set as this transformations.

Ehh, Norn transformation is a core tenant of their lore.

Transformations are bad. Period. They are a bad designed feature in the game. There is not a single transformation that comes handy in the game.

They tweak Rampage and it is still a horrible HORRIBLE elite skill and that is in the best scenario the “stronger” version of our elite transformations.

There really is no hope for our elite skills.

besides, its impossible to argue with people who “Leopard is fine for stealth”. ANet really needs to query their database and check how many people uses it and get some scorecards. Its not that hard to notice with solid information that the whole set of 4 elite skills that costs a total of 90 SP are a total waste.

I know they aren’t intended to be competitive and the racial elites are more flavor than anything else (although balth hounds is very useful on my Mes) but with massive cool down and short duration I can’t even use it just to muck around and have fun.

Mesket.5728:

Transformations are bad. Period. They are a bad designed feature in the game. There is not a single transformation that comes handy in the game.

Necromancer elites say “Hi!”

I agree in that I too wish transformation had been a bigger part of playing a Norn considering how important it is in Norn lore.

But giving that to Norns would mean you’d have to give all the other races something similar or it wouldn’t be ‘fair’.

Zorby.8236:

Question: Do I use Norn elites?
Answer: No

Also, there are other problems than duration, such as loosing your heal and utilities. On Ranger I loose my pet…

This.
I STILL use the mistfire wolf.