Guild Wars 2

Plenty of posts to choose to add your thoughts to:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dangerous-precedent-Watchwork-Pick/first -11 pages now closed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Watchwork-Pick-Non-inflammatory-please/first – active
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Watchwork-Pick-Why-No-Response/first – active
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/The-Watchwork-pick-and-past-future-tools-D/first#post3576944 -active

Let’s keep this thread short.

StinVec.3621:

I am wondering if that statement evolved from the Dreamcleaver splash, though the “Never need to buy another X again!” or “The last X you’ll ever need!” sound way too familiar and I know I’ve seen it on something.

I kind of remember when something like that might have popped out. There was a thread on the forum asking about molten picks, in which people asked what would happen if ever a next tier of nodes would come out, and if it would require buying a new “infinite” tool or not. The answer was something like “no, any new materials will be also harvestable using infinite tools, so you don’t have to worry about ever replacing them” – or something similar.
Can’t find the thread at the moment, unfortunately – it was long ago, and i’m sure it was not on general discussion thread.

Granted, the question (and answer) was only about the tools being able to harvest all possible future nodes. Nobody actually asked if there might be other reasons that could obsolete the tools. Still, the message was quite suggestive.

I know, because that thread was the one that persuaded me to invest in some of those tools (i bought them only after i was sure i will never need to replace them. Seems i was mistaken)

(Edit: sorry about offtopic, but didn’t see where else i could answer to the post in this thread)

Yup- I remember that thread.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guys, for the most part I think this has been a civil and helpful conversation. I want to thank you (well most of you) for keeping a constructive tone, and sharing your thoughts.

If I could ask you to share your thoughts on the item in the appropriate forum — I am pretty sure that would be the Black Lion Trading Company Forum — I’d appreciate it. Please know I am not trying to deflect or shut down the discussion, just get it where it belongs and is most likely to be noted.

Thanks for understanding.

Gaile, if you check the Black Lion Trading Company Forum and General Discussion Forum, you will see many topics discussing what was mentioned here the last couple of days. The problem is that there has not been a single response by a dev and the biggest topic about it in the general forums with over 500 posts was closed by a mod.

I agree that this discussion doesnt belong here but it seems its the only place we get any kind of feedback from Anet on this topic.

Gaile, this is why I was so actively involved on the BLTC section on this topic. A response from you there, for good or for worse, would help end the debate. The debate has gone from bad to worse due to no interaction from the powers that be (which would be you). We would very much appreciate your involvement there. Even if it’s just one post, it would help.

Thanks for your reply, Gaile. Fundamentally, I think people just want the necessary information in order to behave as informed consumers. If we should be viewing the infinite gathering tools as generic smartphone style products with planned obsolescence (which purchasers of generic smartphones know about before buying the product), it would be very helpful to disseminate this information more widely and in the other related forum topics so no one needs to feel surprised or upset when they learn about it after making a purchase.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Guys, I appreciate your faith in me (at least I think that’s what you’re showing ) but I am not in a position, and do not know the knowledge or expertise, to respond to the threads you’ve pointed out. Yes, I can read them, but I am not able to answer, nor should I.

I am confident that the team members who are directly involved in Gem Store items are aware of the thoughts being shared in the threads. Thanks for understanding.

aren’t we past the point where them being aware of the issue is enough? they should have addressed this a week ago and the silence seems to be creating problems? don’t you think instead of you someone who does have the knowledge and expertise should be here?

Then could you forward to whomever that some of the forum natives are restless about this and have launched a myrid of threads on the BLTC and GW2 Discussion forums on this topic. The continuing silence is deafening and is exacerbating the growing belief that ANet’s gem shop policies are now skewing to the nefarious “Pay to Win” model.

An official statement may launch another series of threads but acknowledging the players are being heard by someone not in CS (no dis here) has to be better than riling them up by (being perceived as) ignoring them.

Edit: Just saw you posted in one of the tamer threads on the subject. It’s a start but I fear that unless we hear from someone higher up on the dev chain it’s going to be perceived as sending out the PR person to talk to the pitchfork and torch wielding mobs. That never defuses the situation.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Yes, I see your points, Lilith, and I respect there are many different ways of looking at things. I just don’t want RD to feel bad, or betrayed, or somehow feel negatively towards us, as a company. That really is all I’m hoping, because I <3 ArenaNet and I believe we do right by our players.

Gaile, I’m one of the people that requested a refund for my now obsolete mining pick and I must unfortunately say I have been VERY VERY unhappy with the way this issue has been handled so far, to the point that I will no longer buy anymore gems and am seriously reconsidering if I should continue to play this game.

When I purchased my first unlimited gathering tool, I purchased it because I thought I’d NEVER have to buy another pick, ever. I thought that the price of 10 euros was quite steep, but I went on and purchased it anyway as I imagined I’d get many years of use out of this item and maybe after 5 years or so, it’d pay back for itself. It was supposed to be an investment. Even then, I thought that 10 euros (1/4th of the price of the full game!) is quite expensive for such a simple convenience item.

Now, only a few months down the road, you chose to release another item that is a BETTER version of the one I had. Since I cannot equip both the old pick and the new simultaneously, the old pick is now gathering dust. I might as well throw it away, as it is occupying an inventory slot and I would never consider equipping it, as the new pick is plainly better.

The reason you lost so much goodwill is two-fold: I didn’t get the value for my money that I expected (I expected at least 5 years of use out of the previous pick), and I now fear that ArenaNet will start to continuously release better gemstore items that invalidate previously made purchases. Which sounds an awful lot like actually having to pay a subscription fee if you want to retain the best-in-slot gathering tools (or any other future items available in the cash shop!). I think it is obvious why I don’t want to see the game going that way.

I do not understand the smartphone analogy. Smartphones exist in the real world where you get real technological advances and companies have to release better products, else the competition will take all future customers. In a game, the developers control the whole economy and have a monopoly on releasing products. Planned obsolescence is not natural, nor is it desired.

By the way, I have a 7 year old dumb-phone. I don’t think paying 700 bucks for a phone that is obsolete after a year is worth the investment. Instead I spend lots of money on indestructible clothing of an amazing brand that gives lifelong warranty. Currently replacing my whole wardrobe with that stuff, so I never have to buy clothing again. I hate planned obsolescence with a passion. That’s why I was so excited with GW2. No gear threadmill… Oh wait, ascended

Gaile Gray.6029:

gidorah.4960:

aren’t we past the point where them being aware of the issue is enough? they should have addressed this a week ago and the silence seems to be creating problems? don’t you think instead of you someone who does have the knowledge and expertise should be here?

No, not at all. This is the Account Issues Sub-Forum, and posting on the subject of dissatisfaction with a design decision is quite off topic. I thanked everyone for his or her good manners earlier, and you will note that I asked them to post elsewhere. (The forum people tell me that posting in the Guild Wars 2 Discussion or Black Lion Trading Company sub-forum would be a good choice.)

So no, this thread isn’t where we’ll be discussing the matter, where previous content in this post was more related to an actual account issue (or the perception of one) and was appropriate for this forum.

i may be confused i asked if we are at a point where the substance of the discussion should be had and you responded no and directed us to the many threads where no one from anet is discussing the substance. am i just confused and the players concerns are being addressed somewhere i didn’t look or did you brush me off to one of the many thread that are being ignored?

Gaile Gray.6029:

gidorah.4960:

aren’t we past the point where them being aware of the issue is enough? they should have addressed this a week ago and the silence seems to be creating problems? don’t you think instead of you someone who does have the knowledge and expertise should be here?

No, not at all. This is the Account Issues Sub-Forum, and posting on the subject of dissatisfaction with a design decision is quite off topic. I thanked everyone for his or her good manners earlier, and you will note that I asked them to post elsewhere. (The forum people tell me that posting in the Guild Wars 2 Discussion or Black Lion Trading Company sub-forum would be a good choice.)

So no, this thread isn’t where we’ll be discussing the matter, where previous content in this post was more related to an actual account issue (or the perception of one) and was appropriate for this forum.

So couldnt you move this thread into the proper sub forum instead of making them create a whole new thread only to get overlooked for another week? Why make them jump through hoops when all you have to do is a few simple clicks? Sounds like a good business practice to me. They create a problem and wont discuss it because its in the wrong sub forum? What a joke! Wait, whos the OP that started this thread in the wrong subforum? Guess us players need to quit discussing it here then!

JBDanger.2603:

Gaile Gray.6029:

gidorah.4960:

aren’t we past the point where them being aware of the issue is enough? they should have addressed this a week ago and the silence seems to be creating problems? don’t you think instead of you someone who does have the knowledge and expertise should be here?

No, not at all. This is the Account Issues Sub-Forum, and posting on the subject of dissatisfaction with a design decision is quite off topic. I thanked everyone for his or her good manners earlier, and you will note that I asked them to post elsewhere. (The forum people tell me that posting in the Guild Wars 2 Discussion or Black Lion Trading Company sub-forum would be a good choice.)

So no, this thread isn’t where we’ll be discussing the matter, where previous content in this post was more related to an actual account issue (or the perception of one) and was appropriate for this forum.

So couldnt you move this thread into the proper sub forum instead of making them create a whole new thread only to get overlooked for another week? Why make them jump through hoops when all you have to do is a few simple clicks? Sounds like a good business practice to me. They create a problem and wont discuss it because its in the wrong sub forum? What a joke! Wait, whos the OP that started this thread in the wrong subforum? Guess us players need to quit discussing it here then!

This thread was to discuss something completely different, hence the suggestion to go to the General or Trading forums. Perhaps you should read the first page, and see that this thread was derailed.

Gaile has a point, guys. (Even though I’m totally in the "we need a response! group. )This thread is really for the people who want a refund for extra tools they bought back when it was soulbound, and we’re derailing it from its intended purpose. Let’s keep our discussions to the appropriate area.

That said… Gaile, if you could wander over and give the Gem Store people a poke, we’d definitely appreciate the help. It’s not a nice feeling wondering if your thread was never seen, or it was seen and they have decided to amend the item/stay the course. We want to be kept in the loop, not left wondering what’s going on.

Zaxares.5419:

Gaile has a point, guys. (Even though I’m totally in the "we need a response! group. )This thread is really for the people who want a refund for extra tools they bought back when it was soulbound, and we’re derailing it from its intended purpose. Let’s keep our discussions to the appropriate area.

That said… Gaile, if you could wander over and give the Gem Store people a poke, we’d definitely appreciate the help. It’s not a nice feeling wondering if your thread was never seen, or it was seen and they have decided to amend the item/stay the course. We want to be kept in the loop, not left wondering what’s going on.

i think that’s the point this is going into areas it doesn’t belong because the people who should be addressing it in the area it should be addressed in aren’t doing it. gaille should be directing the anet people responsible to the appropriate threads and it won’t go out to all the other area’s.

That’s not her job. She works in customer support, and that is not a customer support issue, it’s a forums issue. If people didn’t try to order around the Anet staff like they were personal servants the whole thing might have gone a little better.

tolunart.2095:

That’s not her job. She works in customer support, and that is not a customer support issue, it’s a forums issue. If people didn’t try to order around the Anet staff like they were personal servants the whole thing might have gone a little better.

sure it’s not her job but its about the 6th response of hers that says go discuss it somewhere else. at some point she may realize people are going to talk about it and if she doesnt want it to keep showing up in areas it doesnt belong she should have the person who can answer the questions about it actualy answer the questions about it. telling people hey go over to the appropriate forum so you can be ignored doesnt seem to be working so far

First off all, generic brand 5s stinks. You better go with generic brand s4

Having said that. I do believe that this discussion doesnt belong here. Ignoring Gaile’s request to discuss it elsewhere is very impolite to her and will lead to a higher change that nothing is going to be done bout this.

This thread is to discuss the return policy for duplicate gathering tools. To me the return policy is very clear. If you want to discuss the lack of a return policy for not duplicate tools then I would recommend starting a discussion in the traders forum where it belongs.

Not an account problem.
Not an account problem.
Not an account problem.

She admits she shouldn’t have talked about it in this thread and shut down all talk about this pick when it first derailed a thread about refunds of extra picks when they made the change to make new tools account bound rather than soul bound.

She is trying to move people back over to those other forums and talk about it there and she made an appearance in one of the threads.

So lets leave this thread, return to it’s original purpose and move the conversation to the thread she replied in or one of the others shall we? This isn’t the right board for this conversation.

gidorah.4960:

tolunart.2095:

That’s not her job. She works in customer support, and that is not a customer support issue, it’s a forums issue. If people didn’t try to order around the Anet staff like they were personal servants the whole thing might have gone a little better.

sure it’s not her job but its about the 6th response of hers that says go discuss it somewhere else. at some point she may realize people are going to talk about it and if she doesnt want it to keep showing up in areas it doesnt belong she should have the person who can answer the questions about it actualy answer the questions about it. telling people hey go over to the appropriate forum so you can be ignored doesnt seem to be working so far

Gaile is a wonderful person, and does a great job, but I am not sure she has the authority to order someone else in another part of the company to do anything.

She can, however, moderate this thread, so it would be best post off-topic comments elsewhere before the thread becomes closed or posts are found missing. This topic is about refunds for duplicate identical items, and the policy has been stated quite clearly.

gidorah.4960:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

gidorah.4960:

tolunart.2095:

That’s not her job. She works in customer support, and that is not a customer support issue, it’s a forums issue. If people didn’t try to order around the Anet staff like they were personal servants the whole thing might have gone a little better.

sure it’s not her job but its about the 6th response of hers that says go discuss it somewhere else. at some point she may realize people are going to talk about it and if she doesnt want it to keep showing up in areas it doesnt belong she should have the person who can answer the questions about it actualy answer the questions about it. telling people hey go over to the appropriate forum so you can be ignored doesnt seem to be working so far

Gaile is a wonderful person, and does a great job, but I am not sure she has the authority to order someone else in another part of the company to do anything.

She can, however, moderate this thread, so it would be best post off-topic comments elsewhere before the thread becomes closed or posts are found missing. This topic is about refunds for duplicate identical items, and the policy has been stated quite clearly.

sure she seems nice and i’m sure she doesnt have the power to make anyone do anything but she can definitely ask them why they are making extra work for her. She can and has moderated this thread and the other 8 or 9 just like it in a bunch of different forums however her current tactic of saying dont have the discussion here have it somewhere else isn’t working because there isnt an actual discusion in the places she is directing people. I’m just as tired of having 5 threads about this on most front pages as you are of having this discusion in here. It’s time to stop saying please talk about it somewhere else and get the people who should talk about it to show up somewhere else and the discussion will naturally go there.

So your solution is to keep posting off topic posts in this thread, derailing it time and time again? You are not going to get the answer you want here, so please just stop. You are doing nothing here but attempting to stir up trouble and making it harder for players to find the information they need for a completely unrelated issue.

gidorah.4960:

tolunart.2095:

That’s not her job. She works in customer support, and that is not a customer support issue, it’s a forums issue. If people didn’t try to order around the Anet staff like they were personal servants the whole thing might have gone a little better.

sure it’s not her job but its about the 6th response of hers that says go discuss it somewhere else. at some point she may realize people are going to talk about it and if she doesnt want it to keep showing up in areas it doesnt belong she should have the person who can answer the questions about it actualy answer the questions about it. telling people hey go over to the appropriate forum so you can be ignored doesnt seem to be working so far

If I were in her place this thread would be locked and you’d be on vacation from the forums for two weeks. Gaile is much nicer and more patient than I am. Count your blessings and move on.

I think the problem is: Gaile is really all we’ve got. And I recall very well that each time Gaile got involved into a gemstore related controversy (e.g. Flamekissed armor, free account-bound upgrades for soulbound infinite harvesting tools), the right decision was made. So I agree with you that absolute courtesy is required (as always, but especially here), but I don’t agree that people are not entitled to ask questions or post responses here. Particularly when they feel they really have nowhere else to turn to.

Buttercup.5871:

I think the problem is: Gaile is really all we’ve got. And I recall very well that each time Gaile got involved into a gemstore related controversy (e.g. Flamekissed armor, free account-bound upgrades for soulbound infinite harvesting tools), the right decision was made. So I agree with you that absolute courtesy is required (as always, but especially here), but I don’t agree that people are not entitled to ask questions or post responses here. Particularly when they feel they really have nowhere else to turn to.

The ‘problem’ is that Gaile is redirecting people elsewhere.
She is the support liason. This means one of her tasks is to see possible issues and put it on the table at arenanet. In this case the people making the decission what to refund and what not to refund. She fights hard for us, but in this case the decission made by arenanet stands. Keep in mind. Gaile is on the payroll of Arenanet. So in the end she has to stick with the decission that Arenanet makes and defend it.

In this case she explained the stance that support is taking on this issue and told people where to discuss the issues they have with it. So, as I see it:

Arenanet has taken a stance in this debate that some people don’t like. The support liason is supporting this stance (as said she is on the payroll and it is to be expected she would and should) and she can’t change this stance. She is giving the advise to express your discomfort with this stance elsewhere. I am not saying that she might expect that it will be more succesfull to express it there, but I do feel that she is certain it will be more purposefull there.

(in other words. Gaile = Arenanet, so don’t expect her choosing for us over the person paying her daily sandwich, but do read between the lines of what she is saying).

Listen, if you buy something in a store, and you later feel you’ve been scammed, you go to the store, right? So let’s say you enter the store, and you tell your story to the lady at the front desk (Gaile), and you ask for a refund. Now, she’s kindly telling you to write a letter with your complaint, to be sent to point A (BLTC forum). Which is what you do, right? But after a while, when you don’t get any letters back, what do you do? You go back to the lady that directed you to point A, and tell her that you did exactly as she told you, but you’re not getting any response. And you tell her again, politely but more firm this time, that you really want that refund.

That is what is happening here. And I completely understand it.

Buttercup.5871:

Listen, if you buy something in a store, and you later feel you’ve been scammed, you go to the store, right? So let’s say you enter the store, and you tell your story to the lady at the front desk (Gaile), and you ask for a refund. Now, she’s kindly telling you to write a letter with your complaint, to be sent to point A (BLTC forum). Which is what you do, right? But after a while, when you don’t get any letters back, what do you do? You go back to the lady that directed you to point A, and tell her that you did exactly as she told you, but you’re not getting any response. And you tell her again, politely but more firm this time, that you really want that refund.

That is what is happening here. And I completely understand it.

And I do not. The lady at the desk has allready told you that Anet is NOT going to give you the refund. She is UNABLE to help you. If you disagree with this stance by Anet you have a much better change to talk in a place where the person making that decission on behalf on Arenanet is gonna listen.

Yes Gaile is much nicer then those people, but don’t misuse that nice-ness and patience to highjack a thread totally unrelated.

So please go where you are asked to go.

There are several forum rules being broken here.
- ‘Stay on topic and create a new post for tangentially related topics.’
- ‘Do not engage in staff call-outs. Using the words “ArenaNet” or any staff member’s name will not expedite the answer to your query.’
- ‘Do not debate Customer Support decisions or actions’
-‘Do not post petitions, “I demand an answer” threads, conspiracy threads, or comments about circumventing the rules.’

So stop breaking the rules you agreed to!

I am well aware of those rules, and did not break a single one of them. And please, while I love the game as much as you do (and value Gaile’s helpfulness as much as you do), you are not Anet’s enforcement agency, your comments and tone to me are entirely inappropriate and do not foster a healthy discussion (and as such do break the rules, which I will not report, but I will request that you change it accordingly). Other than that, I stayed fully on topic, as I argued that – in the absence of a response on the place to which customers are redirected – this has purely become an issue falling within the realm of account support.

In essence, in the absence of a response and/or discussion from the devs on the BLTC forum, the situation has changed and the absence of a response itself has become both an account issue and an account-related issue.

Please keep in mind that there are people who spent up to €100 euros on this (see the BLTC forum, this not a fictional amount). A mere “sorry, file a complaint elsewhere” doesn’t cut it if those complaints are, or appear to be, subsequently ignored. I really can’t summarize the latter phrase any nicer; there is no response despite there being multiple threads asking for one.

This thread was meant to inform players about the refund policy for duplicate infinite gathering tools, from when they changed it from Soul Bound to Account Bound.

There is no refund policy for Gem Store items that people had a “change of heart” on. The Guild Wars 2 Support Team have also said that, and I quote: “Purchases from the Gem Store are seldom refundable”. Bottom line, there’s no bug or issues with the previous and/or current tools, so there’s no reason for any refunds. If they grant the players’ request, that’s great. But as of now, I have not heard of a single person getting a refund due to their not liking a tool anymore.