Guild Wars 2

First off I feel I have to say that I know there’s an official thread about third party programs, but I feel that it not only leaves a grey area but also doesn’t specify what is considered a ‘bad’ program because you could argue that changing the ingame font is an unfair advantage because the person would like the font he chose and be in a happier more relaxed mood when playing compared to someone who hated the font – although then that means anyone who likes the default font will be at an advantage, and those who hate it will be at a disadvantage.

Now I have that out of the way, will Zoomunlocker get me banned? And I mean straight banned, or will I get a warning first? Honestly I would be very unimpressed if I did with the amount of personal time I’ve spent reporting bots when one admin per server could sort it all out instead of relying on your customers to do it. I don’t PVP, I only PVE, and the pathetic zoom out options are almost worse than Lineage 2 – but the main aspect of it is being able to be in first person and ANet apparently are against first person because they want you to see your character all the time so you connect with it more or something, but isn’t going into the eyes of your character making more of a connection? Pathetic excuse just like the pathetic zoom options that only zoom out further when the game says so.

It would be great to see an official reply, although if I do see a reply with the same recycled response I’ll be letting you know what I think.

Thanks,
Lister.

Creating a thread with a nasty tone when trying to get some information is not going to help.
I can answer one question, you would get no warning before being banned if there is a reason to do so.
They do not give warnings as your warning is considered to be the TOS.

Another note to consider, the zoom/camera view is a part of the developed aspect of the game. Anything that allows you to zoom or have camera angles that others do not, would be an unfair advantage. Altering the views beyond what is programed into the game would be altering the internal coding and would more than likely result in a ban.

Note: I am not a mod nor a developer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express a few years back.

I wish they’d just let us zoom out to “big boss” zoom levels on our own without the need for some 3rd party software! In WvW it’s such a pain being all zoomed in and claustrophobic when there are so many players out and about.

In WvW, “zoom hacking” is an issue if it would allow you to eg look over walls to spy and reach areas with your arrow cart target circle you normally couldn’t get to.

Gaile Gray.6028:

Let me answer this as a player:

Consider PvP: Being able to zoom out farther than your opponent seems a definite advantage. If a PvP player can see the entire map, he/she certainly knows more, and can react differently, than those playing the game as intended (who cannot view the entire map through normal processes).

The advantage-giving provision of the program is a concern to me, as a player, as it seems clearly prohibited by the policy. " Our general policy is that anything that gives advantage is forbidden; anything that imbalances the game in favor of one player over another is strictly disallowed."

As I said I don’t PVP – with the exception of checking what the monthly rewards were and the xmas snow event – so I’m more than likely going to make the call that it’s a “benign” program like they officially state to do, I would not be breaking the tos with how I play the game and records would show that. Quickly off the top of my head this is the sort of scenario I could refer it to: If there are overpowered skills for a certain class after a patch, should the servers be shut down because a certain class might – emphasis on might – take advantage of it?

On the lines of what the person after you said, why an option to increase the max camera zoom-out to “big boss” distance in the world is beyond me, especially in a game that promotes you play it how you want to play it. Anyway, thank you to all those who responded to the thread.

You can take the chance that no one else ever uses the application for an advantage in any part of the game, but if others do, and a decision is made to ban all users of said application, you might find yourself taking an unexpected vacation from the game. It is, of course, your choice. Good luck. =)

Gaile Gray.6028:

Let’s look at a scenario: Say there are detection systems that ascertain you are using a specific third-party program that is known to give players an advantage. Do you think that we would go through your entire gameplay history to see “This person does not play PvP, so the program is not giving him/her any advantage, so therefore his using it is acceptable?” I am sure when you read that, you’ll realize that to do so would be incredibly time-consuming and an unrealistic expectation on the part of any player.

That was not meant to be a specific monitoring of everything I’ve ever done, that was a “I get banned (while the same bots farm for the 5th week in a row) and there’s proof I never participated in PVP or that I gained an advantage”, which is seemingly what they fret over, along with botting.

Gaile Gray.6028:

I don’t think you should decide “Well, in my use this is ok” so much as assess “This program could be used for advantage, and I therefore will give it a wide berth.”

Unfortunately I don’t agree with the “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it” attitude – ironic when I live in the UK. All third-party programs are going to give an advantage in some way over someone who doesn’t also use it. If it was such a problem there wouldn’t be a grey area about it of ‘maybe this is ok to use, but then again maybe not’.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

You can take the chance that no one else ever uses the application for an advantage in any part of the game, but if others do, and a decision is made to ban all users of said application, you might find yourself taking an unexpected vacation from the game. It is, of course, your choice. Good luck. =)

That is unfortunately very true. It annoys me greatly being punished because other people take advantage.

Lister.5678:

Unfortunately I don’t agree with the “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it” attitude – ironic when I live in the UK. All third-party programs are going to give an advantage in some way over someone who doesn’t also use it. If it was such a problem there wouldn’t be a grey area about it of ‘maybe this is ok to use, but then again maybe not’.

There was a similar discussion the other day from a player that wanted to use a single key command while multi boxing to control all his characters. He swore that he wouldn’t use it as an unfair advantage. Even if he was being sincere the problem is that other people would. In your situation the same applies. While your intentions may be to use it honestly, if they opened the gate, others would abuse it.

Unfortunately I doubt that Anet GMs have the time or the manpower to watch everyone using third party software to establish if they are doing it honestly or not. Therefore it is true, those that try to use 3rd party software for an unfair advantage have indeed spoiled it for those that may have honest intentions.

There are tons of examples in real life regarding things people can’t have or can’t do because “Someone messed it up for the rest of us.” Usually it was many more than one though.

IMHO any third party software being used should be used with the full expectation that it could get you banned for one reason or another. If you insist on using it, you are taking a chance. Whether you think that is right or not is another story, and if you think a certain feature that a third party program offers should be in game I would use the suggestions thread.

Zoomunlocker lets you do something that the deveopers clearly do not want you to do.

It gives an advantage to those who use it – significant even in PVE although much more in PVP – to those who use it over those who don’t.

It’s going to be considered a “Ban” versus “ignore” type for sure.

in PVE being able to zoom out allows you to see more of the map at a time. This increases your efficiency at killing creature, map exploration, and content completion both solo and even more so in a group. That allows you to do more stuff or gain more gold in less time. I find that to be a very unfair advantage.

Lister.5678:

That was not meant to be a specific monitoring of everything I’ve ever done, that was a “I get banned (while the same bots farm for the 5th week in a row) and there’s proof I never participated in PVP or that I gained an advantage”, which is seemingly what they fret over, along with botting.

Gaile Gray.6028:

I don’t think you should decide “Well, in my use this is ok” so much as assess “This program could be used for advantage, and I therefore will give it a wide berth.”

Unfortunately I don’t agree with the “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it” attitude – ironic when I live in the UK. All third-party programs are going to give an advantage in some way over someone who doesn’t also use it. If it was such a problem there wouldn’t be a grey area about it of ‘maybe this is ok to use, but then again maybe not’.

It doesn’t matter if you agree with the policy, it’s arenanet’s choice, and they aren’t going to change their mind because you argue with them over it. And no, there isn’t a gray area on this subject, sorry but arenanet has always been quite strict when it comes to add-ons. They don’t want their customers to think that it’s required to download an external program in order to play the pvp, wvw, or even think it’d help them to do it for pve.

As for the bot argument, that was just rude. They’ve previously stated that they don’t ban bots they know of right away so that they can catch more in the act. I remember the mass bans of bots, it had a large effect on the economy, so don’t act like they’re just letting the bots do what they want.

It’s the main reason why I don’t link to the ‘argos’ page at all. They have some very usefull and legimate functions both for gw2 and for gw1. The GW2ArmorGallery is a very perfect and legimate tool wich is better then the alternatives. But the software that alters things ingame they offer are all on the edge and actually not ok.

Another way to look at this: If you feel the program in question doesn’t give any advantages, why bother installing it?

The only time someone wants to mod the game is to gain some type of advantage. It’s never a “just because” reason.

Lister.5678:

Gaile Gray.6028:

Let’s look at a scenario: Say there are detection systems that ascertain you are using a specific third-party program that is known to give players an advantage. Do you think that we would go through your entire gameplay history to see “This person does not play PvP, so the program is not giving him/her any advantage, so therefore his using it is acceptable?” I am sure when you read that, you’ll realize that to do so would be incredibly time-consuming and an unrealistic expectation on the part of any player.

That was not meant to be a specific monitoring of everything I’ve ever done, that was a “I get banned (while the same bots farm for the 5th week in a row) and there’s proof I never participated in PVP or that I gained an advantage”, which is seemingly what they fret over, along with botting.

Gaile Gray.6028:

I don’t think you should decide “Well, in my use this is ok” so much as assess “This program could be used for advantage, and I therefore will give it a wide berth.”

Unfortunately I don’t agree with the “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it” attitude – ironic when I live in the UK. All third-party programs are going to give an advantage in some way over someone who doesn’t also use it. If it was such a problem there wouldn’t be a grey area about it of ‘maybe this is ok to use, but then again maybe not’.

And that is why all third-party programs are not allowed…
So to clear your ‘grey area’ just say it as a fact : no third-party program is allowed
That is a pretty simple rule to follow i guess

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Another way to look at this: If you feel the program in question doesn’t give any advantages, why bother installing it?

The only time someone wants to mod the game is to gain some type of advantage. It’s never a “just because” reason.

I use it to take screenshots.
Neved used it in WvW.

Aphykit.9357:

I use it to take screenshots.
Neved used it in WvW.

Screenshots are built in to the game with a single key press, why would you need a third party app for that?
And as has been said, what you use it for is irrelevant really, it can be used to grant an advantage. That is all that matters.

You can’t take screenshots in first-person view unless you back your character into an object, and even then you’re often stuck with a shaded view of your character on your screen. It used to be possible to take first-person screenshots during one of the betas, but for some reason they disabled that ability.

gassy.8975:

You can’t take screenshots in first-person view unless you back your character into an object, and even then you’re often stuck with a shaded view of your character on your screen. It used to be possible to take first-person screenshots during one of the betas, but for some reason they disabled that ability.

use /sleep is the only way around this issue I have found.

gassy.8975:

You can’t take screenshots in first-person view unless you back your character into an object, and even then you’re often stuck with a shaded view of your character on your screen. It used to be possible to take first-person screenshots during one of the betas, but for some reason they disabled that ability.

It really does not matter. You can’t expect any game developers to say “you can use this third party app for this, but not for that.” It’s just not going to happen.
Every time a player was banned for using an app, they would just say, “I did not use it for X, I only used it for Y”.
An official response was asked for, Gaile pretty much answered it several times.
It provides an unfair advantage, exactly what features you use it for are irrelevant.
Use at your own risk, if your banned, you where warned.

I’m guessing that you wouldn’t want to use this program if it didn’t give you some sort of advantage. Regardless of that, you’re asking to use a third party program to modify the game client’s behavior, which is a violation of the EULA.

I think between the answer from Gaile provided and all of our other feedback it is safe to assume he has received the information he requested. Whether he chooses to accept that answer is his decision. Perhaps we should leave it at that for now. That is unless his next post is “Why was I banned?”

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

gassy.8975:

You can’t take screenshots in first-person view unless you back your character into an object, and even then you’re often stuck with a shaded view of your character on your screen. It used to be possible to take first-person screenshots during one of the betas, but for some reason they disabled that ability.

It really does not matter. You can’t expect any game developers to say “you can use this third party app for this, but not for that.” It’s just not going to happen.
Every time a player was banned for using an app, they would just say, “I did not use it for X, I only used it for Y”.
An official response was asked for, Gaile pretty much answered it several times.
It provides an unfair advantage, exactly what features you use it for are irrelevant.
Use at your own risk, if your banned, you where warned.

I didn’t ask the dev team to make an excuse for this. I was merely explaining why someone would want to use this tool to get screenshots.

Examples of third party applications that do not give gameplay advantage:
Vent overlay
TS3 overlay
Vent
TeamSpeak
Mumble
Mumble overlay
Browser overlay
Steam overlay
Overlays from recording software used in streaming, such as to put an image over the game that is broadcasted on the stream.
Recording software that records gameplay for streaming or storage.
FPS counter overlay
System time overlay

etc

These sorts of things have their uses and don’t give gameplay advantages. (well you can make an argument that voip software makes it easier to communicate – but the counter argument to that is that people sitting in the same room have that same communication advantage and that voip software eliminates that advantage). Voip software also does not modify the game.

In your case gassy, using such a tool to get a screenshot would not be utilizing it to get a gameplay advantage. But I would expect you to get caught up in a blanket ban from those using the program to gain a gameplay advantage (like using arrow carts in wvw). You might be able to appeal it and get it reversed if you ONLY used it for creating screenshots and had it disabled entirely otherwise. But support may not reverse the ban – so use it at your own risk.

With past bans though support seems to target people who use these things often, if you used it just once or twice they seem to give you a pass. OFC I don’t mean this as you should just cheat sparingly because they might just come down hard on any and all uses.

If you use a 3rd party program like this, I highly doubt you will “never ever” be in wvw. Everyone I know has been in it before, and even if you are in it for a short time, its still a short time of a huge advantage.

Adula.3698:

If you use a 3rd party program like this, I highly doubt you will “never ever” be in wvw. Everyone I know has been in it before, and even if you are in it for a short time, its still a short time of a huge advantage.

2,000 hours of game time logged and I’ve never once stepped into PvP or WvW and I have no interest in ever taking part in that aspect of GW2. Highly doubt all you like, your viewpoint is biased by your ‘everyone I know’ statement in that you don’t know everyone.

Also, I had requested the gw2zoomunlocker creator to release a version with only the first-person view feature with the zooming out unlock aspect removed. Haven’t heard anything back from him.

Gaile –
Would you be able to offer some insight as to why first-person view is not available in Guild Wars 2? I can not think of a logical reason for its absence. Thanks.

In the end, this whole thing is very simple. ArenaNet have made the decision to not allow third-party applications (mods) when playing their game. Though many of these applications would be used for simple reasons, others may find certain advantages over the game or other players when using these applications.

The majority of players will not seek to take advantage, however there is a small minority that will. ArenaNet could put together a list of applications that are ok to use and those that are not ok to use. Let’s just say that application X is used to a benign purpose, so is added to the OK list. It is later found to allow players under certain cirmcumstances to gain some advantage over others. ArenaNet could then add that application to the Not OK list, but then have to rely on players from stopping using it.

It is much easier for everyone (ArenaNet as well as us players) if they just come out in the beginning and say none of them are ok. This way, we all know not to use them, and that all players are on equal footing.

As for why first-person view is not available – simply put, that is the way they designed the game. If they had been able to make it available (or wanted to), it would be. They have their reasons, and whether we think it is “logical” or not, we have to accept it.

Draygo.9473:

Examples of third party applications that do not give gameplay advantage:
Vent overlay
TS3 overlay
Vent
TeamSpeak
Mumble
Mumble overlay
Browser overlay
Steam overlay
Overlays from recording software used in streaming, such as to put an image over the game that is broadcasted on the stream.
Recording software that records gameplay for streaming or storage.
FPS counter overlay
System time overlay

etc

These sorts of things have their uses and don’t give gameplay advantages. (well you can make an argument that voip software makes it easier to communicate – but the counter argument to that is that people sitting in the same room have that same communication advantage and that voip software eliminates that advantage). Voip software also does not modify the game.

That’s true you could make those arguments but the counter argument doesn’t really counter it but more shows the grey area of “We’ll allow/disallow whatever we want but we aren’t telling you what because we don’t vet third party programs – use your own initiative but you might get banned which is unfortunate”, if they didn’t want any third party software they would emphatically state that. Someone who enjoys soloing is going to be at a disadvantage over those who literally only play in groups and/or use voip software. Aren’t big guilds at an advantage over others? Aren’t veteran players at an advantage? Aren’t those with better hardware at an advantage? Better yet, those people who abuse exploits and bugs, aren’t they just playing the game because ANet put said things in the game? No, they’ll get a warning and/or a ban

ANet need to state that no third party software is allowed, period – oh and implement the simple benign things that people are wanting to use third party software for, maybe then this type of thread would never exist.

Lister.5678:

Draygo.9473:

Examples of third party applications that do not give gameplay advantage:
Vent overlay
TS3 overlay
Vent
TeamSpeak
Mumble
Mumble overlay
Browser overlay
Steam overlay
Overlays from recording software used in streaming, such as to put an image over the game that is broadcasted on the stream.
Recording software that records gameplay for streaming or storage.
FPS counter overlay
System time overlay

etc

These sorts of things have their uses and don’t give gameplay advantages. (well you can make an argument that voip software makes it easier to communicate – but the counter argument to that is that people sitting in the same room have that same communication advantage and that voip software eliminates that advantage). Voip software also does not modify the game.

That’s true you could make those arguments but the counter argument doesn’t really counter it but more shows the grey area of “We’ll allow/disallow whatever we want but we aren’t telling you what because we don’t vet third party programs – use your own initiative but you might get banned which is unfortunate”, if they didn’t want any third party software they would emphatically state that. Someone who enjoys soloing is going to be at a disadvantage over those who literally only play in groups and/or use voip software. Aren’t big guilds at an advantage over others? Aren’t veteran players at an advantage? Aren’t those with better hardware at an advantage? Better yet, those people who abuse exploits and bugs, aren’t they just playing the game because ANet put said things in the game? No, they’ll get a warning and/or a ban

ANet need to state that no third party software is allowed, period – oh and implement the simple benign things that people are wanting to use third party software for, maybe then this type of thread would never exist.

No 3rd party apps are allowed in game, theres no discussion. Nothing that interferes with or changes the game. Overlays do not change the game, they do not interact with code or the exe file. It is a clear distinction to anyone, not just computer and programmer savvy people. You can argue the point all you like, in the end if you want to use the program that is on you. We will keep an eye out for your banned forum post, and your question will be answered.

Geotherma.2395:

No 3rd party apps are allowed in game, theres no discussion. Nothing that interferes with or changes the game. Overlays do not change the game, they do not interact with code or the exe file. It is a clear distinction to anyone, not just computer and programmer savvy people. You can argue the point all you like, in the end if you want to use the program that is on you. We will keep an eye out for your banned forum post, and your question will be answered.

Except if I think it doesn’t give me an advantage, they’re quite clear that if it gives the player an advantage it isn’t allowed – that’s fine but the problem I have is that VOIP software is seemingly an exception, although they can’t approve of it’s use because it gives an advantage over someone who doesn’t use it . Quoting the official thread, “Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?”, it allows them to play faster, better, and more accurately as they can be updated on everything that is going on. Not a surprise considering majority of companies just make it up as they go along and not define anything – reminds me of real life, no one officially teaches you the law but if you break them, then good luck.

Along the lines of me saying “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it”, I’ll have to say similar with “Just because I talk about, doesn’t mean I’m going to do it”.

Lister.5678:

Geotherma.2395:

No 3rd party apps are allowed in game, theres no discussion. Nothing that interferes with or changes the game. Overlays do not change the game, they do not interact with code or the exe file. It is a clear distinction to anyone, not just computer and programmer savvy people. You can argue the point all you like, in the end if you want to use the program that is on you. We will keep an eye out for your banned forum post, and your question will be answered.

Except if I think it doesn’t give me an advantage, they’re quite clear that if it gives the player an advantage it isn’t allowed – that’s fine but the problem I have is that VOIP software is seemingly an exception, although they can’t approve of it’s use because it gives an advantage over someone who doesn’t use it . Quoting the official thread, “Does this program allow someone to play faster, better, longer, or more accurately than someone who doesn’t use it?”, it allows them to play faster, better, and more accurately as they can be updated on everything that is going on. Not a surprise considering majority of companies just make it up as they go along and not define anything – reminds me of real life, no one officially teaches you the law but if you break them, then good luck.

Along the lines of me saying “Some people abuse it, so no one can do it”, I’ll have to say similar with “Just because I talk about, doesn’t mean I’m going to do it”.

I dunno why you’re still continuing or arguing in this thread. You had an official response from a dev and they have told you it’s not recommended to use it. This answers your question on whether or not zoomunlocker is safe or not to use.

The VoIP overlay doesnt give the advantage, The VOiP program does, but thats not altering the gameplay., so these are not the exception to the rule. Point is that Lafiel is right. you had your answer from a dev and Im pretty sure that the answer is not a discussable matter.

came across this thread thought one of the comments by staff was amusing

//Let’s look at a scenario: Say there are detection systems that ascertain you are using a specific third-party program that is known to give players an advantage. Do you think that we would go through your entire gameplay history to see “This person does not play PvP, so the program is not giving him/her any advantage, so therefore his using it is acceptable?” I am sure when you read that, you’ll realize that to do so would be incredibly time-consuming and an unrealistic expectation on the part of any player.//

um, you know that can be automated right?

if we where able to automate similar checks in UO back in the day, on private shards(to catch people using pve only items in pvp events) I dont see how it could be that complicated if a bunch of geeks could manage similar checks in a similar game over a decade ago…

My suggestion would be to lock zoom and fov for PVP only, and allow adjustment of them for PvE, this would allow better flexability for those of us who want to pve as our primary (or only) play type.

i get headakes from the current FoV still, combined with teh perf issues the game has even on high end systems, i duno what to say other then, the games got alot of wasted potential due to some poor choices…

btw, ElderScrollsOnline allow several 3rd party apps one is the launcher that lets you tweak the gfx settings, including first person and 3rd person FOV, shader detail level, ect, dosnt allow for higher zoom level, but higher zooms not really needed when you can tweak the FOV properly….

and yes, necrothread but, still what i would consider a valid thread/topic since, Anet at last check also said macro’s wherent allowed and was still selling a gw2 branded mouse with macrosoftware……sooooooo

The short answer is they can ban you for just about anything they want and you can’t really do anything about it. If you give them a reason (like using a program that gives an advantage….such as the one in question), you cannot be surprised when you get banned.

It’s pretty simple and they have NEVER hidden this fact from anyone.

Very short answer: Use Zoomunlocker at the risk of being banned.