Is using macro to use up karma items allowed?

Is using macro to use up karma items allowed?

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Posted by: Yaj.5973

Yaj.5973

I couldn’t find a direct answer. I read stuff about macros not being allowed if it gives a significant advantage.

But i was wondering if a macro is allowed if I used it to use up all my karma items.

I have around: 2 stacks of drops, 1 stack drips, 1 stack of the almost every kind.

I really don’t want to break my mouse by clicking too much.

I have a naga, and i just figured how to use synapse’s macro functions.

Is it still against the rules to use a macro to drain all the karma?
- sidenote. i have no use for karma atm. They are just taking up bagspace.

Is using macro to use up karma items allowed?

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

Is using macro to use up karma items allowed?

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

If it is more than one action per click it is not allowed. No matter what the action is.

So one click to get rid of 250 karma giving items in a stack which normally takes 250 clicks would not be allowed.

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

If it is more than one action per click it is not allowed. No matter what the action is.

So one click to get rid of 250 karma giving items in a stack which normally takes 250 clicks would not be allowed.

I would provide an argument against your point, though I feel the matter is a bit grey.

A “click” or a “keystroke” is really just an input action. Such a macro would, in reality, be initiating 250 separate inputs in rapid succession. Each of these inputs would be performing a single action, that being the consumption of a karma consumable in the aforementioned stack. As such, it would be acceptable.

I believe the examples in the dev post you linked do not apply in this case. For instance:

1. “You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions” – The inputs performed by the macro are not performing multiple (different) functions, they are performing the same function over and over again. It would not, for instance, consume items from multiple stacks at once, consume the items from the stack while also setting up TP orders, or consume the stacks while the OP is using attacks, dodging, and gathering nodes.

2. “For example, if you Press A and it results in the casting of a single skill, you’re ok. If you Press A and it casts multiple spells, you’re not ok.” – Similar to the above point, it is not performing “multiple spells”, it’s simply doing the same thing over and over again. Technically speaking, I could write a macro that spams the “1” key to continually attack, which, according to your post above, would be illegal. However, the game already provides similar functionality by way of “auto-casting”, thus my macro would not be doing anything that the game does not already allow me to do. Similarly, a macro that would consume items from a stack is effectively “auto-casting” the clicking of the stack. Furthermore, this could technically be achieved by a human being if they were able to click at that speed.

3. “You cannot program an “auto-clicker” macro that, for instance, opens chests while you play elsewhere.” – The example described here is again highlighting “multiple actions”. In the case of the OP, they would not be setting up a macro that would allow them to consume the stacks while they play other parts of the game or do other things. It is simply to expedite the process of consuming the stacks and not enabling them to do anything else.

As always, OP, you do take some inherent risk if you decide to use such macros, so just don’t use them irresponsibly. Personally, I do find it unlikely that they would be bothered by such a macro since it is not providing any real advantage as far as game play goes, although I obviously can’t speak for them.

(edited by Yamsandjams.3267)

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Since the punishment is banishment, care to try your theory Yams?

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Inculpatus cedo.9234

Inculpatus cedo.9234

So, would it be acceptable to gain Achievement Points using such a macro? If you can use a macro to open Karma consumables, is there a difference opening Alcohol consumables? There’s an Achievement for consuming alcohol, so where does one draw the line? Macros are ok for getting APs? Macros are ok for winning mini-games if you are using instruments? Macros are ok for ….?

It’s probably best not to have any grey areas in such matters, as it makes it more difficult to determine where the line should be drawn.

Of course, it’s not my call, but it can lead to confusion where it’s ok to ‘win’ at some things using a somewhat automated process.

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

Since the punishment is banishment, care to try your theory Yams?

Do you really think they would feel such a punishment is necessary in this case? The player is not doing anything malicious or providing themself any unfair advantage. All they would do is lose a prospective purchaser by banishing them.

Furthermore, I’m not even confident they could definitively prove the use of such a macro. Can they, without any doubt, be sure that I’m not manually providing all those clicks? One could even set the macro to have delays between the inputs to be closer to the speed of an average human.

So, would it be acceptable to gain Achievement Points using such a macro? If you can use a macro to open Karma consumables, is there a difference opening Alcohol consumables? There’s an Achievement for consuming alcohol, so where does one draw the line? Macros are ok for getting APs? Macros are ok for winning mini-games if you are using instruments? Macros are ok for ….?

Again, it’s performing the same action over and over again to consume the alcohol items. This does not constitute “multiple actions” as exemplified in the linked dev post.

For winning the instrument mini games, I believe that one could be outlawed because you would be considered to be performing “multiple actions” by playing different notes. Such a thing is not done by repeatedly performing the same input over and over, but requires several different timed inputs (unless it’s simply a song that constantly spams one note, but that doesn’t exist in the game yet). Furthermore, the person is using the macro to subvert the “challenge” that is present in such content, thus receiving a reward for not actually doing the work.

There is no challenge in consuming a stack of consumables, it is simply tedious clicking. It’s a similar reason to why they added purchasable stacks of 10 obsidian shards and icy runestones, to reduce such tediousness.

It’s probably best not to have any grey areas in such matters, as it makes it more difficult to determine where the line should be drawn.

Of course, it’s not my call, but it can lead to confusion where it’s ok to ‘win’ at some things using a somewhat automated process.

ANet has left it deliberately grey because they do not want to take a black and white stance on such a thing. I believe context to be very important when it comes to these matters. As described above, consuming the alcohol items is not subverting the gameplay in some manner, it simply reduces mindless clicking. Automating something like the Wintersday bell choir mini-game is subverting the challenge of that game mode that rewards something. These are very different situations that should not be judged the same.

It is also because they cannot regulate what sort of hardware is being used. If you look at Seera’s earlier post, it is stated that

If it is more than one action per click it is not allowed. No matter what the action is.

Many mice for home use posses a button that perform a “double-click” so that users can perform a double-click action on a GUI element with a single click. According to Seera’s post, use of this button should technically be illegal when playing GW2 since it is “more than one action per click” according to them. This button is effectively a macro, and can be used to consume stacks of items in a more expedient manner similar to how the OP desires to do so.

So is your answer to tell players which hardware they can and cannot use to play the game? I believe that ANet realizes this is a ludicrous notion and thus does not take a black and white stance on the issue since they would simply end up contradicting themselves.

I believe the only truly important thing in this matter is whether or not it allows the challenge of the game to be subverted in some manner, if it affords a player a competitive advantage over others, or if it allows the individual to automate the playing of the game at large (i.e. botting).

I think telling someone that “yes, you need to actually play the bell choir game to get rewarded” is very reasonable. I think that telling someone “yes, you need to do nothing for the next 10 minutes but click a mouse button 2000 times to consume all your karma items” enforces tediousness for tediousness’s sake.

Realistically, this whole thread extends from the issues of someone with a ton of consumable karma items and no fast way to consume them. The developers could simply provide a “fast stack consumption” feature into the game and such threads or debates as this would no longer exist, though I imagine that’s not high on the priority list. I imagine the “automate bell choir game” feature will never see the light of day though, for reasons outlined above.

(edited by Yamsandjams.3267)

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

They’ve made it clear in the past that their tools can spot macro activity and that they don’t distinguish the difference between convenience applications like EoL consumption or instrument playing and more nefarious uses.

You used macros to do more than one action, ban hammer.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Yaj.5973

Yaj.5973

Thanks for the inputs.

Bit disappointing i’ll have to click every single karma item but i get it. It opens the doors for other things. I’ll just do it while i’m at school using a school mouse.

Karma is rather a meh thing to me atm. No real use for it. That’s why I’ve just been stacking it. So it really doesn’t give me anything in the end (even though I did earn the karma).

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Posted by: LyricDawnhagen.7803

LyricDawnhagen.7803

Consuming stacks of Karma items using a macro (mouse or keyboard) is an “auto-clicker”. The macro is clicking the mouse for you. That is specifically listed in the ArenaNet response linked by Inculpatus cedo.

We are allowed to macro on a 1 to 1 basic. One key press by the player results in one action taken by the game. Using macros beyond that 1-1 relationship is putting your account in jeopardy of being banned permanently.

While clicking on a few stacks of items is both boring and tedious, you can do it with a clear conscious and knowledge your account will be there tomorrow for you to play.

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Posted by: pdavis.8031

pdavis.8031

@yams

Although you make a very good logical argument, it seems that you are using a very loose definition of “multiple” as in: having numerous aspects or functions.

I feel it would be best to err on the side of caution, and stick with a more strict definition of multiple (i.e. consisting of, including, or involving more than one)

“You know what the chain of command is?
It’s the chain I beat you with until you
recognize my command!”

Is using macro to use up karma items allowed?

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Posted by: simplesimon.2084

simplesimon.2084

Since no one else has said it you could bind your click to mouse wheel and just spin that

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Posted by: Yaj.5973

Yaj.5973

Since no one else has said it you could bind your click to mouse wheel and just spin that

It wouldn’t let me do that. I could only do “scroll up/down/left/right” as mouse options through naga.

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Posted by: Yamsandjams.3267

Yamsandjams.3267

@yams

Although you make a very good logical argument, it seems that you are using a very loose definition of “multiple” as in: having numerous aspects or functions.

I feel it would be best to err on the side of caution, and stick with a more strict definition of multiple (i.e. consisting of, including, or involving more than one)

I concur that it is best to err on the side of caution in these matters, and not use any sort of macro for even benign purposes if you’re not willing to accept the associated risk.

As for my use of the definition for “multiple”, I use it loosely because it is loosely defined by the linked source material. The examples used to illustrate the point specifically point out situations that concur with my use of the definition, those being ones “having numerous aspects or functions” as you mentioned. If it is to have a stricter definition then ANet should provide a stricter set of definition and limits that concern these matters.

Since no one else has said it you could bind your click to mouse wheel and just spin that

It wouldn’t let me do that. I could only do “scroll up/down/left/right” as mouse options through naga.

If you have a programmable keyboard, you might look and see if you can bind mouse 1 to several keys and then just piano those keys over and over to effectively produce a faster rate of “clicking”.

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Posted by: Michael Henninger.7451

Michael Henninger.7451

Game Support Lead

I’m going to chime in to say just this:

Don’t use macros.

GM Delicious Intent
Twitter: @ANetCSLead
GM Delicious Intent.5928

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

I’m going to chime in to say just this:

Don’t use macros.

Thanks Mike. 3 simple words to end an entire debate. Tis the power of a Dev!

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Plexxing.2978

Plexxing.2978

QOL idea: Give a rick click option to use a whole stack of something. Whether it be karma containers or stacks of bags, as long as you have space, they open.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

QOL idea: Give a rick click option to use a whole stack of something. Whether it be karma containers or stacks of bags, as long as you have space, they open.

This would be a great solution to the problem.

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Posted by: Yaj.5973

Yaj.5973

QOL idea: Give a rick click option to use a whole stack of something. Whether it be karma containers or stacks of bags, as long as you have space, they open.

This would be a great solution to the problem.

Yes it would be a great solution!
Use items in bulk. Buy items in bulk. etc. would make it so much simpler.

- especially when it comes to buying things like obby shards and sun beads.

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Posted by: Rajani Isa.6294

Rajani Isa.6294

Thanks for the inputs.

Bit disappointing i’ll have to click every single karma item but i get it. It opens the doors for other things. I’ll just do it while i’m at school using a school mouse.

Karma is rather a meh thing to me atm. No real use for it. That’s why I’ve just been stacking it. So it really doesn’t give me anything in the end (even though I did earn the karma).

Got a scroll wheel on that mouse? Bind wheel up to mouse click.

Scroll.

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Posted by: Rajani Isa.6294

Rajani Isa.6294

1. “You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions” – The inputs performed by the macro are not performing multiple (different) functions, they are performing the same function over and over again.

I know it’s moot now that a dev has chimed in, but notice the EULA/TOS doesn’t say “Multiple different actions” – merely “multiple actions” – they don’t distinguish between repetitive different and same actions.

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Posted by: Becka Williams.4978

Becka Williams.4978

1. “You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions” – The inputs performed by the macro are not performing multiple (different) functions, they are performing the same function over and over again.

I know it’s moot now that a dev has chimed in, but notice the EULA/TOS doesn’t say “Multiple different actions” – merely “multiple actions” – they don’t distinguish between repetitive different and same actions.

It’s possibly not the best idea to advertise that you’re going to use a macro on the official forums if you don’t want anyone to know.

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Posted by: Blehh.5240

Blehh.5240

Anet, quick suggestion:

Right Click > Use All

or

Right Click > Consume All

It would go a long way to improve the game experience.

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Posted by: Rajani Isa.6294

Rajani Isa.6294

I just want them to make it so you can buy 75 sun beads at a time >.>

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Posted by: Yaj.5973

Yaj.5973

Anet, quick suggestion:

Right Click > Use All

or

Right Click > Consume All

It would go a long way to improve the game experience.

I just want them to make it so you can buy 75 sun beads at a time >.>

Yep. .Macros aren’t aloud, so please arenanet give us a better solution than to sit there and click for days. those sun beads must be a killer. -.-

Let us buy in bulk PLEASE!

- btw. synapse won’t let me remap my scrollwheel. I emailed razer support so we’ll see what they say.

edit – razer responded. said it’s not possible. -.-