Legendary Sunrise scammed.

Legendary Sunrise scammed.

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

Q:

Hello to the community members and Arena Net,

I will try to make this short since i am really frustrated , disgusted and devasted by what happened.

A person who i shall not name in this thread ( over 6K+ Achievement points) has offered 2000 gold for my twilight but via in-game Mail , to avoid TP Fees. I thought about it for a bit then accepted since i thought he was pretty well mannered and mature-ish.

I sent the sunrise over , and he replied saying just give me a moment i will send the gold from another account. At this point i got a little nervous.

He has never came online since on both accounts which leads to make me think he blocked me or w/e and simply got scammed.

Me and my close mate have worked over 2 month to achieve the sunrise together. I was planning on selling it for gold and getting my mate the legendary he always wanted which was Twilight.

This may sound very pathetic , but i will keep it honest and won’t try to create a fake ego of what im not feeling right now. Right now i have no urge of even logging and playing just cause of the fact all of our efforts has gone astray.

Any help with this situation will be appreciated.

Thank you

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Next

A:

How can you not help refund the OP his Sunrise? It is the system that is at fault, not the player. I know many players are selling through mail just to avoid TP fee because it’s definitely not a “small” fee when selling for 1000g+. I’m sure there are many other players being scammed. What can you expect from the players? Just tell them to use TP when it was the TP fee system that caused this mess in the first place?

edit: Actually, I thought I’d be more elaborate on this. If an insurance company insures your car for $20,000, and your car is actually only worth $10,000, it would make sense to purposely destroy that car. AKA Moral hazard. Who is at fault? The person who destroyed the car? Or the bad deal set by the insurance company? Just like moral hazard where when a system is bad, it causes these problems, in gw2, it’s the TP fee insane tax that causes this kind of problem. It’s not the players fault. And you can ban players. The problems won’t stop until you stop the source of the problem: the bad design of TP fee.

LOL! I love how people try to deflect blame when there’s something they don’t like (i.e. TP tax). While I know it’s really hard to reason with people with a strong sense of Entitlement, but I’ll try. Say you want to buy a Louis Vuitton bag. It costs $700 at the mall, but you find one on Craigslist for $100. Oh boy, what a deal! So you meet the stranger and do the trade. Two things could happen here:

1) You buy the bag, but it turns out to be a fake. You ask for a refund, but the guy is no where around.
2) You give the guy the money, and he runs away. You can’t catch him, so you lose the money.

Long story short, you took the risk, and now you live with the consequences. With Phira’s mindset, he would blame Louis Vuitton for the high prices that forced him to go elsewhere for the goods.

On a side note, I personally feel Anet shouldn’t ban anyone in this case. This was a “Gentleman’s Agreement” between two people.

The trading post is there for a reason. It should provide a safe environment and help stopping scams like the ones done in GW1. If you choose to operate outside that, you are on your own and you know it.
On the other hand, Anet don’t like scammers. So, they are followed and punished anyway.

Thank you both for saying these messages so clearly and so well.

In the end, I do not direct these comments to nergoza, who truly understands, but to those who do not: There is a secure trade system: Use it. It is not reasonable to demand “do overs” when you choose to skirt the system. If nergoza understands this, you should to. Thanks for reading.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

(edited by Gaile Gray.6029)

Legendary Sunrise scammed.

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Posted by: Michael.4791

Michael.4791

You may report it and ask support, but when you bypass the official shop, there are small chances to get it repaired.

Legendary Sunrise scammed.

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

I will ask support , i am just taking suggestions and gathering all information before i do so. So i don’t waste my time or their time

Legendary Sunrise scammed.

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Previous

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Next

I sure understand how disappointed you must be. It is precisely for this reason that the Trading Post was developed. The fees are small — consider it “transaction insurance” if you will — and for items of this magnitude, isn’t it worth being sure you’ll have a successful and pleasant transaction.

I am sorry you were scammed, and I strongly encourage you to contact Support by filing a ticket through the “Ask a Question” tab on that linked page. Please report this player, so he/she can be stopped from harming other players. We cannot and will not get involved in these incidents in the sense of retrieving the items, but we will take action to protect the community and mete out the sort of outcome that a cheater so richly deserves.

Again, I’m sorry that someone did that, and please use the TP in the future.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

I sure understand how disappointed you must be. It is precisely for this reason that the Trading Post was developed. The fees are small — consider it “transaction insurance” if you will — and for items of this magnitude, isn’t it worth being sure you’ll have a successful and pleasant transaction.

I am sorry you were scammed, and I strongly encourage you to contact Support by filing a ticket through the “Ask a Question” tab on that linked page. Please report this player, so he/she can be stopped from harming other players. We cannot and will not get involved in these incidents in the sense of retrieving the items, but we will take action to protect the community and mete out the sort of outcome that a cheater so richly deserves.

Again, I’m sorry that someone did that, and please use the TP in the future.

Thank you Gaile for your response. I know it’s partially my fault for not using the TP , But the fee for selling a 2600 item is rather high (300gold),but to be honest if i had the choice right now i would have payed 600 gold for fee rather than just getting scammed clean from a legendary.

It’s a little harsh that i cannot have my item restored , but i would be very happy if this particular person get’s ip banned and not be able to play and do this exact thing to many other players ( which i am sure he had).

I sincerely do not want anyone to go through what i went through with all the frustration and hope everyone can learn from my mistake.

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Previous

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Thanks for posting, nergoza. I am positive that you helped other players by sharing your thoughts!

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: RavenHawke.9586

RavenHawke.9586

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s harsh at all. I feel TERRIBLE for you, but that’s what the trading post of for. >.< You should never trade by mail. It’s common sense. Again I feel awful for you but its completely (not partially) your fault. Sorry

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s harsh at all. I feel TERRIBLE for you, but that’s what the trading post of for. >.< You should never trade by mail. It’s common sense. Again I feel awful for you but its completely (not partially) your fault. Sorry

Have to disagree with blaming the victim, the scammer is the real bad guy. The victim is only guilty of being naive. Without the criminal there is no crime.

That same logic would make homeowners at fault for home invasions for opening their door to a stranger, store owners at fault for shoplifting, and on and on. The criminal is the bad guy.

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Posted by: Sarys.6520

Sarys.6520

I’m very disappointed for you, Nergoza.

And, It’s a shame that you cannot get your legendary weapon back.

Take care,

S.

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

Thank you for your kind words.

It really sucks not being able to recover my sunrise again , but oh well new update is coming out soon. And i will not let this incident discourage me from amazing content Hope you all enjoy the update

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Posted by: Lafiel.9372

Lafiel.9372

Hello to the community members and Arena Net,

I will try to make this short since i am really frustrated , disgusted and devasted by what happened.

A person who i shall not name in this thread ( over 6K+ Achievement points) has offered 2000 gold for my twilight but via in-game Mail , to avoid TP Fees. I thought about it for a bit then accepted since i thought he was pretty well mannered and mature-ish.

I sent the sunrise over , and he replied saying just give me a moment i will send the gold from another account. At this point i got a little nervous.

He has never came online since on both accounts which leads to make me think he blocked me or w/e and simply got scammed.

Me and my close mate have worked over 2 month to achieve the sunrise together. I was planning on selling it for gold and getting my mate the legendary he always wanted which was Twilight.

This may sound very pathetic , but i will keep it honest and won’t try to create a fake ego of what im not feeling right now. Right now i have no urge of even logging and playing just cause of the fact all of our efforts has gone astray.

Any help with this situation will be appreciated.

Thank you

The moment he wanted to trade in in-game mail you should have known it was a scam. He literally had ZERO benefit by trading with in game mail with you while on TP he doesn’t pay extra and he gets his twilight. Obviously, anyone who offers this kind of deal is looking to scam people. In the future, just avoid in game mail trading OR always be the person to send after. Comeon, even in real life trading like ebay, when do you send an item and THEN pay. You were too nice and naive at the same time and these scumbags took advantage of it. I feel for you.

Legendary Sunrise scammed.

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Posted by: Phira.3970

Phira.3970

How can you not help refund the OP his Sunrise? It is the system that is at fault, not the player. I know many players are selling through mail just to avoid TP fee because it’s definitely not a “small” fee when selling for 1000g+. I’m sure there are many other players being scammed. What can you expect from the players? Just tell them to use TP when it was the TP fee system that caused this mess in the first place?

edit: Actually, I thought I’d be more elaborate on this. If an insurance company insures your car for $20,000, and your car is actually only worth $10,000, it would make sense to purposely destroy that car. AKA Moral hazard. Who is at fault? The person who destroyed the car? Or the bad deal set by the insurance company? Just like moral hazard where when a system is bad, it causes these problems, in gw2, it’s the TP fee insane tax that causes this kind of problem. It’s not the players fault. And you can ban players. The problems won’t stop until you stop the source of the problem: the bad design of TP fee.

(edited by Phira.3970)

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

How can you not help refund the OP his Sunrise? It is the system that is at fault, not the player. I know many players are selling through mail just to avoid TP fee because it’s definitely not a “small” fee when selling for 1000g+. I’m sure there are many other players being scammed. What can you expect from the players? Just tell them to use TP when it was the TP fee system that caused this mess in the first place?

edit: Actually, I thought I’d be more elaborate on this. If an insurance company insures your car for $20,000, and your car is actually only worth $10,000, it would make sense to purposely destroy that car. AKA Moral hazard. Who is at fault? The person who destroyed the car? Or the bad deal set by the insurance company? Just like moral hazard where when a system is bad, it causes these problems, in gw2, it’s the TP fee insane tax that causes this kind of problem. It’s not the players fault. And you can ban players. The problems won’t stop until you stop the source of the problem: the bad design of TP fee.

Never looked at this way really…

Thanks for your contribution.

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Posted by: emikochan.8504

emikochan.8504

But it’s not 200% value of the item Phira, it’s way less than the value of the item, It’s not “insane” It’s the same on all transactions. The only reason not to pay it is greed. Getting scammed is the risk you take when you try to get every penny and dodge the system.

Just like not paying insurance and you wrecking your car.

Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com

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Posted by: Michael.4791

Michael.4791

The trading post is there for a reason. It should provide a safe environment and help stopping scams like the ones done in GW1. If you choose to operate outside that, you are on your own and you know it.
On the other hand, Anet don’t like scammers. So, they are followed and punished anyway.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

How can you not help refund the OP his Sunrise? It is the system that is at fault, not the player. I know many players are selling through mail just to avoid TP fee because it’s definitely not a “small” fee when selling for 1000g+. I’m sure there are many other players being scammed. What can you expect from the players? Just tell them to use TP when it was the TP fee system that caused this mess in the first place?

edit: Actually, I thought I’d be more elaborate on this. If an insurance company insures your car for $20,000, and your car is actually only worth $10,000, it would make sense to purposely destroy that car. AKA Moral hazard. Who is at fault? The person who destroyed the car? Or the bad deal set by the insurance company? Just like moral hazard where when a system is bad, it causes these problems, in gw2, it’s the TP fee insane tax that causes this kind of problem. It’s not the players fault. And you can ban players. The problems won’t stop until you stop the source of the problem: the bad design of TP fee.

LOL! I love how people try to deflect blame when there’s something they don’t like (i.e. TP tax). While I know it’s really hard to reason with people with a strong sense of Entitlement, but I’ll try. Say you want to buy a Louis Vuitton bag. It costs $700 at the mall, but you find one on Craigslist for $100. Oh boy, what a deal! So you meet the stranger and do the trade. Two things could happen here:

1) You buy the bag, but it turns out to be a fake. You ask for a refund, but the guy is no where around.
2) You give the guy the money, and he runs away. You can’t catch him, so you lose the money.

Long story short, you took the risk, and now you live with the consequences. With Phira’s mindset, he would blame Louis Vuitton for the high prices that forced him to go elsewhere for the goods.

On a side note, I personally feel Anet shouldn’t ban anyone in this case. This was a “Gentleman’s Agreement” between two people.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Michael.4791

Michael.4791

…This was a “Gentleman’s Agreement” between two people.

Sorry, but I tend to think otherwise. No gentleman on the other side!

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Posted by: Kraggy.4169

Kraggy.4169

If the game had a normal secure ‘trade’ mechanism that allowed players to deal ‘face to face’ like every other MMO I’ve ever played, the TP wouldn’t be needed and such scams wouldn’t happen.

Every other MMO I play (all 5 of them) have an ‘auction house’ or similar, and all allow player-to-player trading. It’s Anet’s desire to use the TP as a gold sink and their determination not to allow such ‘face to face’ trading that is the root cause here.

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Posted by: Avengersoul.8256

Avengersoul.8256

While I do agree that the OP shouldn’t have done the trade, I don’t think he should be punished for it. I’ve seen other similar threads and it’s always directed to use the TP and I’ve also seen that customer support doesn’t do anything for scammed individuals.

I also agree with Kraggy, the game needs a player to player trading system, outside the TP. I get why the TP is there, I also get that it’s the store front for Anet to sell gem items and that’s perfectly fine. But players should have the option to open up a trade window with another player.

Granted I believe it’s not in the game as prevention for gold trading in regards to 3rd party websites, but if you can track gold via mail one would assume you could track it via player trading. If you design a trading system from the ground up, surely it would be feasible to put that in there. In my opinion another thing that’s hurting the honest players, while trying to protect them sure but at the same time punishing them.

Yak’s Bend

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Posted by: Michael.4791

Michael.4791

Nice ideas, wrong forum.
Here the topic is clear: getting help for a scammed player and getting punishment for the scamming individual.
Anything else belongs in “discussions” or “suggestions”.

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Posted by: LeCreaux.3087

LeCreaux.3087

Just add “Cash on Delivery” to the email system with a timer that the seller can set. Either the buyer pays up or the item comes back in the mail.

Edit: just thought of something…maybe ArenaNet specifically wants to track gold transfers via the Trading Post to keep tabs on gold sellers.

(edited by LeCreaux.3087)

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Posted by: Michael.4791

Michael.4791

…Edit: just thought of something…maybe ArenaNet specifically wants to track gold transfers via the Trading Post to keep tabs on gold sellers.

Gold sellers won’t transfer there money via TP. Because they know that this IS logged and because of the taxes. Anet knows that too. Goldsellers are caught on other places and chief among them would be the mail system.
One more reason NOT to trade that way.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t support any scammer. HOWEVER, what’s to say that the OP is lying? What if there was some agreement between two players, and he decided to back out of the completed deal? Then what you have here is a transaction that may have been completed without problems, but one player is trying to undo everything.

This is the reason why I don’t think Anet should get involved. It’s a matter of he said/she said. If an account was hacked, that’s more clear cut, as Anet has the ability to look at server side login reports, whereas they don’t have access to “Gentlemen Agreements”.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: nergoza.6387

nergoza.6387

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t support any scammer. HOWEVER, what’s to say that the OP isn’t lying? What if there was some agreement between two players, and one decided to back out of the completed deal? Then what you have here is a transaction that may have been completed without problems, but one player is trying to undo everything.

This is the reason why I don’t think Anet should get involved. It’s a matter of he said/she said. If an account was hacked, that’s more clear cut, as Anet has the ability to look at server side login reports, whereas they don’t have access to “Gentlemen Agreements”.

I am the OP , ArenaNet , can trace chat logs. Also i took SS’s of all the steps that went down.

I’m over it now to be honest and im focusing my next 1-2 legendaries.

Thanks for everyone who contributed in this thread.

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Just to clarify: Anet not helping to retrieve the item in question isn’t “punishment”. The player made a mistake, end of story. I agree with Anet staying neutral in cases like this, because it was an agreement between two players. They should not take sides in this dispute, and I feel they should not ban anyone either.

And there already is a player to player trading system. It’s called the Black Lion Trading Company.

So explain why there is a “Scamming” report function in game.

Agreement between two people , one person scams. If arenanet can’t retrieve the item , i can understand that.But for the person to get away with it , makes me feel you support scammers yourself.

Try selling an item for 2500 gold and see how much is the fee , pretty discouraging.

And keep in mind this person who im selling to has over 6.k+ achievement points and is a commander in Desolation.

Don’t get me wrong here. I don’t support any scammer. HOWEVER, what’s to say that the OP isn’t lying? What if there was some agreement between two players, and one decided to back out of the completed deal? Then what you have here is a transaction that may have been completed without problems, but one player is trying to undo everything.

This is the reason why I don’t think Anet should get involved. It’s a matter of he said/she said. If an account was hacked, that’s more clear cut, as Anet has the ability to look at server side login reports, whereas they don’t have access to “Gentlemen Agreements”.

I am the OP , ArenaNet , can trace chat logs. Also i took SS’s of all the steps that went down.

I’m over it now to be honest and im focusing my next 1-2 legendaries.

Thanks for everyone who contributed in this thread.

Sorry, didn’t realize that you were the OP. But in any case, agreements can happen outside of the game too. Phone calls, text messages, AIM chats, Skype, etc. If it were that easy to get people in trouble, I could theoretically mail you my Dusk, then tell Anet you scammed me.

Point is, there are two sides to a story. I’m sure Anet has an internal policy to address situations like this, but they need to be careful as to not hit the Perma Ban button without solid facts.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!