Guild Wars 2

Alright look, I have been playing MMO’s since EverQuest days, so I know about bugs and things, but this is just sad.

How in the heck can you cause this many bugs with this patch? You are so focused so much on nerfing stability and conditional damage, that you don’t focus on Q and A of your patches.

I have seen this time and time again, you are just like “hmm what can we nerf.” And you don’t pay attention to what other issues will come up, you just nerf nerf nerf.

EQ and Verant where completely guilty of this. But that hapepned a lot in the first year the game was out, not 2 1/2 years. I can’t understand what you did to break Guild chat, I mean I don’t care, it’s funny, but come on now.

This is not your first game either, that’s what’s even more scary.

The game didn’t just come out, I could completely understand stuff like this the first 6 months, but this game has been out nearly 3 years.

To me this shows a bigger problem, you are focused on bringing as much new stuff to the dang GEM store, that you just put this stuff in without any hint of Q and A.

Did the team get smaller? Did people get laid off? I KNOW you guys have to have an internal server that dev’s play on to test this stuff. Do you just wing it?

GM commands to test new weapons, etc etc. I just can’t understand some of these things. What am I annoyed at is companies now just basically use their player base as beta testers, it’s free labor. That’s not how this should be, we are the players who play the final product to enjoy ourselves.

I don’t want to come home from work and relax play some GW2 and it’s littered with bugs and nerfs, to the point where I just don’t want to play. I don’t put money towards the GEM store to support a buggy game. There is no excuse for this anymore.

I am glad you are fixing this stuff, but I mean come on. Some of these bugs are crazy:

“Added longer protection from fall damage when players use Tequatl jump pads.”

How in 2 1/2 years did you break that mechanic. Then the necromancer bug where they were going into a downed state during a certain skill?

This is why you shouldn’t put HoT patch files on people’s computers, and only the closed beta testers.

I am nervous as hell, when HoT comes out the amount of issues and bugs that will be there, because your Q and A, for lack of a better word: sucks.

I mean I know I sound whiny, but if I am going to pay 20 – 40 dollars for an extra expansion I don’t want to support hundreds or possibly thousands of small bugs that could be introduced with HoT.

There is a difference between “tweaking” and just plain game breaking bugs.

I just don’t get it anymore, back in the day people wouldn’t stand for this, especially products they paid for. Because the game is F2P doesn’t give the excuse you can just break everything that comes along. You have a GEM store that people spend LOADS of money on.

With what currently happens with this disastrous patch .. they really need to add a ‘’ TEST WORLD ’’ open to everyone with a valid GW2 account to test things and yes using us as a beta testers .. a place with no Trading Post , Gem store , all skills/traits unlocked and with normalized Weapon and Armor just like PvP … and of course completely separated from our real account and toons to make sure there is no advantage ..

I understand they can’t add a ‘’ TEST WORLD ’’ for living stories update because it would just spoil everything but for big changes like this or features patch i think it’s not a bad idea to test it a week or two before patching the real game .. QA team is probably small and they can’t find everything as the players base can in ONE evening.

You guys know there’s a difference between Q&A (question and answer) and QA (quality assurance)… right?

Nafeasonto.8925:

…I am nervous as hell, when HoT comes out the amount of issues and bugs that will be there…

This^ … a thousand times… THIS^

OP, I share your concern.

Anet doesn’t take criticism kindly. Expect this post be deleted soon.

Step 1: Get up from the computer
Step 2: Find the nearest mirror
Step 3: Look into said mirror
Welcome to the defacto beta team.

Mistakes happen. Bugs are unavoidable. I don’t think anyone disputes that, but with the march patch and the NPE, the sheer amount and type 2, 2.5 years on is what has people asking wtf.

I’m just going to quote myself, since things here are similar to another one I replied to:

shadow.6174:

Of course one could say these bugs and mistakes are “unacceptable”, in fact that’s it they are, however they are “understandable”. Sh*** happens and things go wrong no matter how much you test stuff.

It seems some players doesn’t understand properly how a development cycle works. Automated testing doesn’t help so much either, they just test for specific stuff and unexpected stuff can happen when system goes live (something that the automated test didn’t expect). Public Test Servers doesn’t help so much either, they usually doesn’t have the enough load as live servers would have and the same as I said above could happen: unexpected stuff could happen in live servers and not in the test servers. As a programmer myself I have lost the count of how many times unexpected things happened on a system which worked pretty fine during test stages, also several were returning bugs which had been fixed but got broken due new changes. Also it’s hardly possible to test everything, at times a change can break things that aren’t in any way linked and then it wouldn’t even be imagined if it would need some testing.

C’mon guys, it’s just a game and devs are also human beings. At least these issues were acknowledged and they are working on them and stuff doesn’t happen with a snap of fingers. There is also a life out of the game :P Things will get sorted.

Chill out and be patient. At least they are fixing stuff (even if a few at once). Here is something to show what programmers and developers can go through, and can give some laughs too: http://programmers.life/ :P

I like screaming “I can outrun a centaur” randomly, especially when I don’t even have a swiftness boost.

shadow.6174:

Chill out and be patient. At least they are fixing stuff (even if a few at once). Here is something to show what programmers and developers can go through, and can give some laughs too: http://programmers.life/ :P

The point is that they rushed something to release without testing it properly, not that they are trying to fix it after the fact.

If I ever pushed code this poorly tested into a live system where I work, I would quickly find myself looking for a new job. Obviously my employer has higher standards of work.

If they had a test server most of these issues would have been discovered in 5 minutes. My game has been crashing and freezing constantly since the 16th.

MrH.2591:

If they had a test server most of these issues would have been discovered in 5 minutes. My game has been crashing and freezing constantly since the 16th.

They do have a test server and the game and all patches are QA tested on it before they roll them out. It just is not a public test server. The thing that most people fail to understand about software development is that you can test and test and test but until the product hits live and goes out to the clients, you will never catch every issue.

This game runs on so many different configurations of hardware, drivers and networks that (frankly) it amazes me that there are so few issues discovered. This is not even mentioning the stupendous number of different types of auto-runs and always running tools, utilities, helper programs and system enhancers that people have running on their system while trying to run the game. While you are probably have some sort of issue with the game, most of the player base is NOT. There are many thousands of people playing the game and a rather small percentage are having some sort of problem with installing or crashing.

I saw in you post log that you said you submitted reports but did you put in a request for service? Submitting the crash log when the game crashes just provides that information to ArenaNet to use in researching the issue. They do not respond to bug or crash reports. If you want personal service from ArenaNet, you need to create a service ticket and provide them with the information that will help them help you specifically.

Also, there are many people in the forums that will be glad to help you troubleshoot your specific issue. You can also post your crash logs and list what you have done to try and solve the issue yourself in a forum thread and you will see that there are many people willing to help you get back into the game.

cillard.3986:

The point is that they rushed something to release without testing it properly, not that they are trying to fix it after the fact.

If I ever pushed code this poorly tested into a live system where I work, I would quickly find myself looking for a new job. Obviously my employer has higher standards of work.

That’s exactly it: rushed. When things are done in rushing something can go wrong and not be properly tested (it happens a lot at my work place :S). At times, the developer have to rush because of some pressure from high above or even from customers demanding stuff. I’m not saying it’s any dev’s fault or not, I mean that things can go wrong even after doing tests after tests. I also feel frustrated and upset when bugs affect my gameplay, but as a programmer myself I can see the other side too. The link I posted before can give some idea about how **** a dev/programmer’s life can be.

Yeah, what is it this week? Patch week? Tues/Wed/Thurs can’t you guys at Anet test your patches/builds on your PC’s you have at work before you release them? And please don’t tell me you did and everything ran fine because that is plain BS. All I ask is before you release a patch like this one is to test it more. I mean there is no rush, so please take your time. This has been a real buggy pain in the butt mess.

Tony.8659:

Yeah, what is it this week? Patch week? Tues/Wed/Thurs can’t you guys at Anet test your patches/builds on your PC’s you have at work before you release them? And please don’t tell me you did and everything ran fine because that is plain BS. All I ask is before you release a patch like this one is to test it more. I mean there is no rush, so please take your time. This has been a real buggy pain in the butt mess.

Each patch released on Wed and Thu were about fixes for issues brought on Tue. If these patches didn’t fix anything then yeah one could say they aren’t testing. But these patches *did* fix a few issues and others are still being fixed. It seems everything I just said before was ignored... oh well.. whatever. * shrugs*

LyricDawnhagen.7803:

They do have a test server and the game and all patches are QA tested on it before they roll them out. It just is not a public test server.

I think most people are cognizant that there must exist some non-live server. That’s not the issue. If it’s not exposed to the public, then it isn’t what we’re referring to as a “test” server, since it isn’t testing for changes in the live environment.

The thing that most people fail to understand about software development is that you can test and test and test but until the product hits live and goes out to the clients, you will never catch every issue.

Only you and Anet seem not to understand that. That’s precisely why the rest of us have been asking for a public test server, so that it’s as close to the live environment as possible and can catch obvious problems that won’t happen in the internal development environment.

While you are probably have some sort of issue with the game, most of the player base is NOT. There are many thousands of people playing the game and a rather small percentage are having some sort of problem with installing or crashing.

“Defective” is not a binary condition. Just because people are able to play in a basic capacity does not change the fact that the game is in its most broken state we’ve seen since launch. Even those times when the game unexpectedly went down, it was restored to full working order in a shorter timeframe than this update.

I’m sure the programmers are doing what they can and harping on them isn’t going to speed this process up, which is why I’ve refrained from doing so (there are enough people doing it as it is), but at the same time your denialism isn’t going to help the situation either, and trying to discredit legitimately good ideas like a public test server is counterproductive. The next time something like this happens, I’ll expect you to take responsibility for it and reimburse people for their losses.

LyricDawnhagen.7803:

MrH.2591:

If they had a test server most of these issues would have been discovered in 5 minutes. My game has been crashing and freezing constantly since the 16th.

They do have a test server and the game and all patches are QA tested on it before they roll them out. It just is not a public test server. The thing that most people fail to understand about software development is that you can test and test and test but until the product hits live and goes out to the clients, you will never catch every issue.

This game runs on so many different configurations of hardware, drivers and networks that (frankly) it amazes me that there are so few issues discovered. This is not even mentioning the stupendous number of different types of auto-runs and always running tools, utilities, helper programs and system enhancers that people have running on their system while trying to run the game. While you are probably have some sort of issue with the game, most of the player base is NOT. There are many thousands of people playing the game and a rather small percentage are having some sort of problem with installing or crashing.

I saw in you post log that you said you submitted reports but did you put in a request for service? Submitting the crash log when the game crashes just provides that information to ArenaNet to use in researching the issue. They do not respond to bug or crash reports. If you want personal service from ArenaNet, you need to create a service ticket and provide them with the information that will help them help you specifically.

Also, there are many people in the forums that will be glad to help you troubleshoot your specific issue. You can also post your crash logs and list what you have done to try and solve the issue yourself in a forum thread and you will see that there are many people willing to help you get back into the game.

I’ve been developing software for almost 40 years, and I have rarely seen a patch go out that had as many obvious bugs as the March 16th GW2 patch had. I’d put this one in the top 3 of the worst I’ve ever seen. It doesn’t take #1, because the client did still run the game after the patch. But look what made it past QA: the /bug reporting tool broken, guild chat broken, the various audio problems, etc. These are things that the most cursory testing (beyond “boot” testing) should have caught. Things like client/server crashes, sure, those things are affected by the plethora of hardware configurations, load, and corner-cases that can be difficult to hit in testing. What bothers me is the huge number of obvious bugs that were unleashed with this patch, and lends credence to the argument that we, the players/customers are being (ab)used as testers.

Didn’t they used to test patches on a test server to avoid these problems or am i thinking of a different mmo?

No. They do not test their patches. Never have, probably never will.
The community is ok with that, as it was made apparent by all the posts in other threads.

Instead of holding Anet to higher standards (they used to be rather good at this in GW1-times) we are holding celebrations for “quick fixes” to stuff that shouldn’t have been broken in the first place or should have been spotted by the non-existing QA department.

serenke.4806:

No. They do not test their patches. Never have, probably never will.
The community is ok with that, as it was made apparent by all the posts in other threads.

Instead of holding Anet to higher standards (they used to be rather good at this in GW1-times) we are holding celebrations for “quick fixes” to stuff that shouldn’t have been broken in the first place or should have been spotted by the non-existing QA department.

This. So much this.

Queue the white knights in 3… 2… 1…

Odyssey.2613:

serenke.4806:

No. They do not test their patches. Never have, probably never will.
The community is ok with that, as it was made apparent by all the posts in other threads.

Instead of holding Anet to higher standards (they used to be rather good at this in GW1-times) we are holding celebrations for “quick fixes” to stuff that shouldn’t have been broken in the first place or should have been spotted by the non-existing QA department.

This. So much this.

Queue the white knights in 3… 2… 1…

Well, I could really give some explanation and stuff, but arguing with frustration involved never works… What I could say is: would it really make any sense releasing a thing without any test? It wouldn’t be more than “shooting their own foot”, I don’t think any of them love to hear hated complaints with no reason just for sake of wanting to hear it.

Know what? Your fortune awaits, because you’re clearly a genius, and the average development manager would sell his or her soul for a way of reducing the number of bugs that get through that actually works. (“Test it.” Wow.)

I worked as a tester of complex software for a computer multinational for 20 years, and with plenty of our customers’ development groups too, and I can tell you this: if you haven’t been there and done it, you simply don’t have the right to criticise. Development is HARD. Finding every new bug is close to impossible (I don’t know how many people ANet have in their test team(s), but you can be utterly confident that they don’t remotely have enough to thoroughly test every bit of new code every patch, let alone retest even a fraction of the old code). There are formal ways of “proving” code, but they cost an arm and a leg – not the sort of thing you’re going to do in quantity unless people are paying you millions. And even they aren’t foolproof.

The truth is that ANet are no worse than most others, and certainly no worse than I’d expect. The big issue to me is not so much what bugs get through, as how fast serious bugs get addressed once they’re found.

Doghouse.1562:

if you haven’t been there and done it, you simply don’t have the right to criticise.

So if we haven’t been a politician we don’t have the right to criticize a bad policy, If the court system makes a bad decision we can’t voice an objection unless we were a judge or lawyer—etc—-I really think your reason has no merit.

im truly surprised they havent deleted this thread for being “unproductive” like they did the gwamm thread.

bain of man.6857:

im truly surprised they havent deleted this thread for being “unproductive” like they did the gwamm thread.

It’s the weekend!! Same reason for not having the pets fixed.
Hit the report button on the OP post and someone will get to it.

my comment was meant to be sarcastic <.<

bain of man.6857:

my comment was meant to be sarcastic <.<

No worries!!
But what I find really disconcerting. If a player gives a ‘wow fantastic’ message/thread or a glowing thank you, the managers/ devs are in quicky to acknowledge the kudos. But threads like broken pets or animations become virtually ignored.

I think that it would be the best to buy new expansion after few months, because there will be huge amount of bugs, so after few months you will be able to play it like final product..