Guild Wars 2

This has to be the 100th bug report on this, but if history taught us anything it’s that constant reposting and reminding gets bugs fixed eventually.

1. Like every other staff mark, Putrid Mark will go on full cooldown if interrupted or the cast cancelled by the player.

2. Putrid Mark used to cleanse the caster and allies if they stood on the mark and transfer all conditions to one target. Now it doesn’t cleanse allies at all, and the caster only transfers 3 conditions per target.

All of those bugs have been in the game since the June balance patch!

The non-ally-cleansing and the full cooldown on interrupt are without a doubt bugs.
However, the 3rd change (3 condis per target instead of all to one) could be intentional, but it wasn’t mentioned in any patch notes. In case any dev who reads this doesn’t frequent the necro subforum, we’ve been asking for a clear statement on this for almost 4 month now: Is the 3/target-transfer an intentional change or a bug as well?

Can we have some response from the dev’s?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark as noted in bug section since 6/25/13 patch. Give them 4more monthly maybe it be fix =[

It’s an important group support option that really should be restored.

So, bump.

Necro checking in, can comfirm.

Thx for clarifying!

The full cooldown “bug”, will it only stay this way for Putrid Mark? Or are all marks considered “best skills in the game”?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

(…) and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

It’s unacceptable that the players just have to “know” these things about a skill. There absolutely must be some tooltip notification on skills that go on full cooldown when interrupted. Since this behavior is intended by the devs, you need to put that on the skills themselves or no one will know what is intended and what isn’t.

Can you make it not possible to cancel? Because why would anyone want to?

Oh, also, why isnt this obvious nerf in patch notes? Is it because you think it can pass thousands of necros’ eyes unnoticed? Sorry if I sounded rude, but such a big nerf should be in notes.

So does this mean we still have to be in the circle for the conditions to be removed?

“It will no longer cleanse teammates " So much for adding more support options for us guess thats just every other class.

Tyler Chapman

We are changing the tooltip to clear up the confusion for this skill. It is a 3 condition transfer from self to foes when they trigger it. None of the other issues are bugs.
Hope this clears things up. This skill has undergone major balance renovations.

So basically one of our skills under went massive changes over FOUR months ago, and there was not a single patch note to communicate it. After which the Necromancer community spent over four months repeatly reporting bugs with the skill and asked for clarification. And this is our response…

Tyler Chapman

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

Just for clarity sake…

We got Dhuumfire (4sec on 10sec CD, 2Sec on 10sec CD in sPvP, as a Grandmaster Trait (vs Engineers Minor trait that is 4sec in both game modes)) for:

A massive loss of utility on Putrid Mark (Stealth Nerf)

A Bleed Stack on scepter #2 (sPvP only)

Terror increasing to Master tier

Greater Marks increasing to Master tier

Not to mention in the same patch group Loss of Deathshroud absorbing a single hit

(Huge issue in PvE content and a one of many suggestions of how to fix it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Suggestion-for-Necro-Lack-of-Evade-Block/first#post3030165)

As well as Spectral Armor/Walk Lifeforce generation normalization.

That is an impressive trade off.

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

Mark of Blood, Chillblains, and Reaper’s Mark. Also known as all other marks.

But it’s okay. They’re all the best skills in the game, so this bug doesn’t need to be fixed, and is clearly an unintended intentional feature.

(Also… Lich Form, still? Not sure).

Spork.2375:

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

Warrior bust skills

Afya.5842:

Spork.2375:

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

Warrior bust skills

You better be the worst troll or the biggest liar.

Spork.2375:

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

There are a few Mesmer skills that do this, at least one being on offhand Sword, and a few others from assorted classes I can’t immediately recall.

Yeah, I don’t believe for a second that this was an intentional change originally.

All skills in the game (except for some other bugged skills..?) are getting locked for 5 seconds when interrupted. Why would the necro who got serious damage buffs (among others) with the same patch get a stealth nerf that causes, not just the allegedly overpowered Putrid Mark, but all marks to go on full cooldown?
This mechanic makes no sense in context of the rest of the game. And if that one skills is that powerfull, why would you nerf all skills of the same weapon with the same “feature”, instead of just nerfing Putrid Mark… oh wait, you did: no more ally cleasing and just 3 condis per target.
That’s why I immediately asked if all marks are considered “one of the best skills in the game”.
The full cd on interrupt makes no sense, but at least we got an official statement for once :/

Tyler Chapman.1832:

…it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

The only skills that go on full cooldown when interrupted are those that give an effect during the casting time (Block while casting, stability when you start casting, etc…), Marks (all of them suffer from this) have no effect during casting time.

Also, in its original form, it was one of the best skills in the game (One of the few Necromancer had, have you seen the rest of our weapon skills?). For the past few months, it is no more than another transfer on a long cooldown that still doesn’t make Staff a viable main weapon, it has nearly no group utility (the blast finisher requires an enemy to function at all).

If this is “one of the best skills in the game” and as such requires a full cooldown in interrupt, why doesn’t Moa Morph go on full cooldown when interrupted? Why doesn’t Healing Rain go on full cooldown when interrupted? Why doesn’t Shadow Refuge go on full cooldown when interrupted? Why doesn’t Battle Standard (Warbanner) go on full cooldown when interrupted?

There are plenty of “best skill in the game”s that don’t go on full cooldown when interrupted, and many of them are far more potent in combat that a measly transfer of 3 conditions.

Windler.4815:

Afya.5842:

Spork.2375:

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

Warrior bust skills

You better be the worst troll or the biggest liar.

That thing doesn’t even use adrenaline when canceled, let alone CD.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

We are changing the tooltip to clear up the confusion for this skill. It is a 3 condition transfer from self to foes when they trigger it. None of the other issues are bugs.

Hope this clears things up. This skill has undergone major balance renovations.

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

So skills that are good will go on full CD when interrupted, but skills that are bad won’t? That’s just not good logic.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

How is this one of the best skills then?

" Tyler Chapman.1832:

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game."

Why is this a reason to put it on full CD? I mean if it has been interupted then a partial CD should be sufficient….especially with the plethora of other damage mitigation/interupts that other classes now have.

When you look at the overall meta this just says “we will give the opponent the opportunity to interupt this ability, AND we will give the opponent more skills to take it out of action, AND we will make an interupt trigger a full cooldown”. Triple whammy right there. So how does it remain “one of the best abilities in the game”?

I think the devs need to look wider than the individual skill and more at the impact on the meta. This is what is making so many of our abilities so lame unless we can “cookie cutter” a build to exploit synergies outside the original intent (dhuumfire/fear anyone).

EDIT: It is exactly this type of throw away hyperbole that the players know is just not true in actual gameplay that increases the players feeling of futility in explaining issues in a rational manner.

I’m not normally one to make strong statements on the forums, and a review of my past posts will reveal that I’m always one of the first to stick up for the devs, but your treatment of the players has been disgustingly disrespectful on this issue. The stealth-nerf of not cleansing allies is bad enough, as it’s completely unwarranted in a skill with 40" cd which simultaneously got a nerf by the move of Greater Marks to master tier. But to leave us thinking that these 2 issues were bugs for four months without a single word, ignoring umpteenth hundreds of bug reports, is unforgivable!
And as to the claim that the full cd on interrupt is also intentional, I just don’t believe you. If that were the case, why does it apply to puny little mark of blood rather than just Putrid Mark? And why implement a change that makes them work like no other skill in the game?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

We are changing the tooltip to clear up the confusion for this skill. It is a 3 condition transfer from self to foes when they trigger it. None of the other issues are bugs.

Hope this clears things up. This skill has undergone major balance renovations.

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

I would LOVE for you to explain how this is one of the best skills in the game. Go on I’m waiting.

R.I.P necromancer.
Guess I’ll stick to my 140% crit damage warrior in dungeons and forget everything else about this game.
Oh and about warrior, isnt it funny how if you miss with a burst skill and swap weapons there is no cooldown?
Necro + ranger definitely drew the short sticks in this game.

Anet wanted to buff support skills last month. Necros have some of the weakest support. Anet gave several other classes enhanced condi clears to reduce condi dominance. So why is anet taking away a support skill and a condi clear from necros? This change is directly contrary to both the general direction they are trying to take the game and the necros class needs.

The way this has been communicated is also very poor. Anet’s post implies the nerf was intended all along. However there was no notification of the “major balance changes” and no reply to the numerous bug reports. This is not collaborative development. Instead it undermines the possibility of collaborative judgment by engendering mistrust and resentment in the playerbase. Anet if you want to work with the players then you have to be straight with us.

Spork.2375:

What other skills go on full CD when interrupted?

Our ELITE Lich Form goes on full cooldown when interrupted. I’ve reported it on this forum before. I guess it needs more backers.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

We are changing the tooltip to clear up the confusion for this skill. It is a 3 condition transfer from self to foes when they trigger it. None of the other issues are bugs.

Hope this clears things up. This skill has undergone major balance renovations.

It will no longer cleanse teammates and it will always give a full cooldown when interrupted because its one of the best skills in the game.

I would LOVE for you to explain how this is one of the best skills in the game. Go on I’m waiting.

Seriously… if it wasn’t for chillblains and staff+5 i would unslot staff. staff+4 sounds terrible now, 25s cd for a self 3 condi transfer?

This is a pretty disheartening example of a lack of proper communication, understanding, and future for this game. One would like to think that the dev post is just an honest case of ignorance, and that the behavior of this skill as it currently is, is a bug that they plan to address, but there seems to be a strange history of rewriting bugs into tooltips.

If it only transfers 3 conditions from the caster to the enemies within the mark, then no. It is not the best skill in the game, nor one of them. If, however, it worked as it originally stated, then sure. Being able to get rid of conditions on allies and self is a great support… especially for MINION MASTERS… which I feel this skill was originally intended for.

Nerfing the skill to only get rid of three conditions from the caster with a 25s cooldown which will ALWAYS trigger, even when you DODGE to try to avoid larger aoe coming to kill you is not acceptable. IF it stays the way it was originally meant to be, then I can understand the 25s cooldown all the time. But not if it’s only for a 3 condition self transfer blast finisher (if triggered).

You seemed to have been trying to find a way to get minion masters a way to keep their pets alive and viable through fights. Staff skills and buffs are in the Death traitline, which, to me, shows that you meant it to be used for minion master builds. So why are you nerfing—no. Why did you nerf one of the biggest support abilities for the minion master four months ago without telling us? I’ve had devs respond to my posts saying it was brought to the attention of the bug fixers… or whatever you’re called.

Being told it was always intended, but not mentioned, is very, very, VERY disheartening.

EDIT: Elementalist’s Healing Rain (staff, water, skill 5) also gets rid of ally conditions. This doesn’t go into a full cooldown. I don’t understand why necros cannot be support, too.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!

thank you!

Thank you!
Sorry for all the previous rage (from others or me) but this is huge that’s why, hope you can understand.

If the condition transfer changes were intended, why wasn’t such a MAJOR change included in the patch notes? Why does ANet pick and choose what they want to reveal and what they don’t?

JonPeters.5630:

FYI, the cooldown thing is a bug. We are fixing that for nov 26th I believe.

What about the double blast finisher if the mark trigger right when you cast it ?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

its one of the best skills in the game.

Hmm I would not agree on that, maybe you talk about pvp? I dont see whats so great about that skill in pve, wvw…

cubed.2853:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

its one of the best skills in the game.

Hmm I would not agree on that, maybe you talk about pvp? I dont see whats so great about that skill in pve, wvw…

Really? You see no benefit for this skill in WvW?

Well so the “no cleanse for allies and only 3 for the caster” nerf stays? I could live with “no cleanse for allies” but only 3 conditions removed for yourself is intended?! There were so many bugreports about this and now we hear that it’s intended? The nerf itself is huge but please if you change stuff in the future please don’t forget to put it into the patchnotes. It’s really bad for us players to report seemingly broken stuff only to hear after 4 months that this was intended:(

Ferrous Wheel.1286:

cubed.2853:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

its one of the best skills in the game.

Hmm I would not agree on that, maybe you talk about pvp? I dont see whats so great about that skill in pve, wvw…

Really? You see no benefit for this skill in WvW?

I did not say that. I just dont understand what makes it “one of the best skills in the game”. With bigger marks for 10 and transfer for allies it is indeed, but the way it is now…

JonPeters.5630:

FYI, the cooldown thing is a bug. We are fixing that for nov 26th I believe.

Ok since you managed to make the other guys in the dev team actually fix a necro bug, im going for a long shot here, but could we keep putrid as a full transfer from us, but a actual cleanse (not transfer) of 3 pre ally standing in it instead of flat out nerfing all support it has?

What was the logic in lowering necromancers already horrendous support capabilities?

I would just like to say, that I understand that putrid mark used to be one of the best skills in the game as the derv stated, but I don’t understand why the effect was completely removed? Like why not remove x many conditions from allies and transfer them to foes. Why do I need a skill to cleanse me of conditions when I have consume conditions? (yes having another one is great, not saying it’s not) Does remove more support from necros, reducing the build variety in which Anet likes to see. Kind of annoying that skills aren’t being finalized and fixed to their final form yet, and that Anet picks at skills and edits them as they see fit. The recent thread asking about what we think about build changes is great though.

So to get this straight. Because we got dhuumfire, you bugged our staff, you removed our only party on-demand condition remove (how does plague signet actually work?? Fix your skill descriptions, so they make sense.), you removed our ability to tank hits, as we are the only class without any means of escaping, you took life force regen from us, and now you suggest to move the trait that you introduced to master and buff it in the process? I am kind of afraid, that after that buff, I will get no staff at all, which I think will not be labelled as a bug, my shroud will be available all 3 minutes and my lf will consist of waiting a day to replenish it. Jokes aside, the staff nerf condition removal wise down to 3 conditions per cast was ok. The removal of the only feature that made it really viable for parties was unnecessary. No one ever complained about that one. Everyone is complaining about dhuumfire, and instead of just giving it a 50-80% proc chance on crit, you want to buff it? Where exactly does that make sense? I don’t want to be the only class that cannot under any circumstances run support and still do a bit of damage.

PS: I am kind of sick of the stealth nerfs, and I am sick of the changes that happen and you don’t tell us about at all. Stop pushing out content and fix your classes first. And for gods sake, please, make the tooltips say what the skill actually does? It’s not helping, that my putrid mark still says “Removes conditions from allies, transfers them to enemy.” . Please talk to the quality assurance department and ask them what they are doing down there. It doesn’t seem that they are even reviewing anything.
That aside. Move Dhuumfire to Curses, where it belongs, replace that aweful scepter thing that is in there.

PPS: On another note, Doom (Yes. The shroud skill) is still bugged if you switch into shroud while having a staff equipped and ground targetting at fast. Just putting this here too.

Total disrespectful bullkitty!
Stealth nurf, takes how many necro’s asking how many times for a dev to say ‘Tooltip fix planned for future’…

Wana name our ‘role’ in a dungeon now? Cause it’s ‘burden’.

Give us a vigor equiv endurance regen. Or block, invul or something so were not the only class that has no attrition in 1 shot death fights.

If were now ‘burst condition’… It’s about time ya’s got condi’s working in PvE. (Immune objects, and fighting for condi stacks in groups/people replacing better condi with weaker & shorter vers)

(No personal offense to you Jon, thanks for actually letting us know)

So:

• This mark only transfers only to one enemy in the mark (source: wiki).
• It does not have any effect on allies in the mark.

It’s barely even a mark now!

It took me one day to calm down, but, I have to add something.
I don’t know where to put this, so devs read it, and it’s not really a bug.

Here we go.

What infuriates necromancer atm is not that we get constantly nerfed, or that our class is inherently near-unplayably bugged, what really infuriates us, it that you do not communicate at all with us. You change things, you don’t put them in the patch notes. You remove things, you don’t tell us about it. Anet stated that they wanted to establish GW2 as an e-sport, which is not going to happen like this. Constantly you change things that were not broken in the first place, and you do not communicate with players who play the game everyday. Going into a thread and stating that “This skill was the strongest in the game” does not count as communicating, it only shows that you do not seem to understand what it actually meant to play this skill. Every other large game has a Q&A and a “Talk about the new changes before they happen” and a “Here are the reasons we did that and that.”, look at SC2, if they were to change a units dps without changing the tooltip, oh man, something would hit the fan. What really hurts is the non-communication of stealth nerfs. You could have told us that you changed putrid mark. It was NOT in the patch notes.

And now, how to fix this:
- Putrid mark is primarily useful for groups. It’s about the only support we have (please don’t force us to play wells… we don’t support well already as it is.). Other professions get support like this already out of the box. Warrior warhorn is aoe, so many classes are aoe. Mesmers now clear condis aoe with mantras. We can’t we just make putrid mark remove one condition from allies that stand in it? It doesn’t seem overpowered, it doesn’t need to transfer them (which would be a little bit strong), just remove one condition. It would keep up the “supporty feel” and also synergize well with minions.

- Non-Communication: You have a plethora of great players that know what they do here in the forums. You could simply put up the change notes before they happen (all of them) in the profession forums. Tell us what we are going to lose, and for all that is holy, update the tool tips with the changes. Communicate with your community. Everyones on the edge because you keep changing things that no one needed. We need some way of gaining endurance, since we can be one-shot out of our only defense (shroud). We need some way to support, and wells are not it. And if all of this happened because of dhuumfire, remove it. I don’t really enjoy playing a class that does not work at all, because no one knows how to fix it.