Guild Wars 2

For a long time now, the game has had an issue with obtaining credit for killing enemies when in very large groups, a problem that became worse with the addition of the Megaserver and scheduled world bosses that come with it. Even so, this bug is not limited to just such events, it can also happen in World vs. World, in Dry Top sandstorms, and any other place where large numbers of players gather and fight the same things.

The problem is that only a limited number of players are capable of receiving experience and loot from each given enemy. The exact number of players, I can’t say, but the limit seems to be around 50, enough to be problematic given that the maximum zone population in most places is 150.

After testing on world boss events, I’ve determined that the trigger that determines which players get loot and which players do not is not tied to damage at all, but rather to speed. The first players to hit a given enemy will be flagged to be able to receive loot from it. Once the maximum number of loot-receiving players has been reached, subsequent players to hit the enemy cannot receive loot or experience from it no matter how much damage they do. The only recourse a late-coming player has to obtain loot is via party mechanics. If the late player is in a group with someone who hit the enemy in time, the loot credit will be shared within the group.

This bug is easy to reproduce in any situation where there are large numbers of players. If you hit an enemy quickly once it appears/becomes vulnerable, you will obtain loot even if you do poor DPS to it. If you are slow in hitting an enemy and are not among the first 50-ish players to do so, you will not obtain loot even if you do tremendous DPS to it. This causes other issues due to the lack of kill credit received. Using the Legendary Karka Queen as an example, it’s a heavily-zerged world boss that, with its Karka Roll attack, is capable of downing players who aren’t aware enough to dodge. If you fight the Legendary Karka Queen and its first health bar is depleted soon after it does a Karka Roll, you’ll be able to see who was slow to hit it among the 100+ players present. The downed players who had hit it soon enough to receive loot/XP will rally when the first health bar is depleted. The downed players who were too late and will not receive any loot or XP from the Karka Queen on its death will not rally, due to the lack of credit, and will remain downed from the Karka Roll.

This loot bug leads to the risk of antisocial behaviour appearing. Using the Great Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest as an example, there are three pre-events that must be cleared before the “Defeat the Avatars of Blight” event starts. The problem is that players who go and complete those pre-events wind up being too far away to return in time to hit the first Avatar of Blight that the mass of players waiting will jump on, thus causing them to miss out on an Heirloom Seed Pouch (possibly two depending on how fast things go) because they went and did a necessary event to progress the world boss sequence. Similarly, players who go to the “Close the Mist Portals” pre-event in the Frozen Maw event chain wind up being too far away to quickly hit the Champion Svanir Shaman, and thus cannot get the Icy Strongbox he drops on his corpse unless there are either very few players present (unlikely in a Megaserver) or they are partied with someone else who stayed behind to hit the Shaman quickly once he becomes vulnerable. Players should not be punished for completing events, but that is the case in these situations.

This bug goes pretty deep under the hood of the Guild Wars 2 engine, I imagine. It has existed since the start of the game, but even now remains largely unknown, with only the few players who have noticed the strange occasional lacks of loot and have decided to put in time and effort testing that out being able to figure out what exactly causes it, with most people affected by the bug thinking it was their own fault for “not doing enough DPS”. It would certainly be good to hear from a red name on this issue, to see if they’re aware of it and if it’s something that’s feasible to fix. I do worry that the longer it goes unfixed, and the more people who learn the truth of how loot is assigned, the worse certain events will get, with races to try to tag champion enemies being set up and harsh words being tossed around once some people inevitably are left out in the cold without loot.

One of the big selling points of Guild Wars 2 is that you should never be annoyed to see another player present. As things stand, when you see seventy-five (or more) other players present, you know that some of them are going to be slow and thus receive less rewards as a result.

I’m sorry this is does not match up with any of my experiences and I have farmed world bosses since for over two years now.

I can be the first person on one of the Husk champions at a pre event to Jungle Wurm, in fact I have several times. And I still do not get the champ bag because I’m not partied up. Once I do one hit to a mob that the rest of my party is attacking, their DPS to the mob also counts as my DPS. This is why it is important to party up at certain world bosses if you want to get all the bags from the pre event champions.

This is easy to test. Solo (not partied) Go to Jungle Wurm and wait for the pre event where the champion husks spawn. The Zerg will go to one or maybe two of the campions. The one closer to the back will not be touched at first. Go tag it with minimal damage. You are the first to tag it. You still won’t get a bag.

So if you want to get all the bags make sure to party up. You may also want to consider not doing all the pre events if you want to get all the champ bags. There’s more than enough people that just want to do the events for the XP and karma who aren’t as worried about the champ bags so they will get done.

Andraus.3874:

And I still do not get the champ bag because I’m not partied up. Once I do one hit to a mob that the rest of my party is attacking, their DPS to the mob also counts as my DPS. This is why it is important to party up at certain world bosses if you want to get all the bags from the pre event champions.

I may have misunderstood but wasn’t it what they said? That you are kind of “required” to be in a party otherwise you won’t get anything?

Xiahou Mao.9701:

players who go to the “Close the Mist Portals” pre-event in the Frozen Maw event chain wind up being too far away to quickly hit the Champion Svanir Shaman, and thus cannot get the Icy Strongbox he drops on his corpse unless there are either very few players present (unlikely in a Megaserver) or they are partied with someone else who stayed behind to hit the Shaman quickly once he becomes vulnerable. Players should not be punished for completing events, but that is the case in these situations.

The thing is, even though GW2 is meant to be a community thing where players are encouraged to do stuff in group, it shouldn’t require players to be in a party in order to get rewards. Simply put it should be like: do a minimum damage and you are eligible to get reward, period. No grouping or whatever required. I have gone through moments where I start attacking when the boss (champ or vet actually) is already at half of their health or less and with a reasonable group doing it, and even so I got no reward at all.

I can give another example related to Maw, that Frozen Totem. For several and several times I have got no loot neither event credit when doing it even after giving some hit. Players have gotten it down so quickly that if you delay 1 sec before start shooting you won’t get any event credit. Even worse, at times I have started shooting it so soon it spawned and no credit given either. In part I blame the broken targeting system, that insists to target a Moa nearby instead of what’s really in front me. :P

The tl;dr from the original post seems to be

• First player(s) to hit a creature is/are more likely to get kill-credit for loot and events.
• The same people are likely to be ‘first’ for all mobs (quicker reflexes, ‘faster’ builds, …).
• Some players can miss out on loot and getting event credit, especially for world bosses.
• A description for how they tested their hypothesis against specific events.

I disagree and/or quibble with a number of their points. However, that said, I agree with these parts of their conclusion:

• This setup causes conflict between those players who camp loot-bearing champs and those that complete the other parts of a chain.
• This setup sometimes penalizes people who aren’t in groups (shouldn’t be required) or have more support-y builds (such as being able to heal, protect, or speed NPCs).

That said, I don’t think this is a bug and I think that ANet has improved the situation recently. The problems first starting being noticeable on high-pop servers, long before megaserver, because of the sheer masses chasing bosses on those worlds.

ANet has responded with event-chains like those in Silverwastes were you are guaranteed credit for participating in small as well as little events. And they have updated events-chains like Tequatl, so that you get credit for active participation in several parts of the event.

I think ANet has more work to do, especially in some of the events mentioned by the OP. But neither do I think it’s as critical as the OP suggests.

my own tl;dr:
Yeah, there’s an issue with event credit, but I think ANet has been doing a good job to date of addressing it and I hope they continue to work on it, especially for existing event chains and world bosses.