Guild Wars 2

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Thief

Stealth still breaking all the time when used in the middle of an action that hit enemy
I have tried using it without autoattack and it worked fine, just had to wait all time to end any action before perform Stealth (yeah.. wait in PvP.
I suggest there is need just a small piece of code that stop/interrupt all actions (except healing) when instant stealth is applied.

As I checked lately all the Stealth skills are beaked in middle of action that produced flying projectile, stealth applied after action ended but before projectile hit target, so its breaking all stealth’s:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Powder
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Refuge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Infiltration

Yes, Mesmers also are frustrated by this bug:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Prestige
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decoy

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Gunk
This Stolen ability is even worse, pulse 5 times and during this time, don’t you dare to go invisible… its revealing all the times.

So brothers Thiefs and some Mesmers lets put an end to this bug.

it sucks, but to avoid the issue I try to remember to dodge before I hit stealth, just to make sure I dont have a projectile thats about to screw me.

Sometimes staff still gets me though, that staff #1 for mesmer is a slow moving bugger

That is not a bug.
If you deal damage in invis you get revealed. Simple as that if you use a skill like chaos storm that dealse pulsing dmg and then go invis of course you get revealed.

To interrupt all your skills on going invis is also not a good option. First the behaviour would differ from usual skill chaining. Second what if an friend makes you invis? He would interrupt you!

Ever played engineer?
Try to throw elexier s when you have static discharge .. Doing so will trigger it and you get revealed. (Current SD is bugged and doesn’t trigger at all on many skills but earlier)
Or Dodge while you are invis with the trait that creates a bomb… Will reveal you too.

Or mesmer since last patch, who reflect on manipulation… Massinvis while a pew pew shots at you .. You go invis but since its a manipulation skill it will reflect the arrow which deals damage and you get visible.

That are some problems. But also those are no bugs.
It’s an issue in design how some skills synergize or in those cases not synergize. If I remember correctly you can map a key to stop your current action and then go invis. Else yeah wait till the action is finished. Or dodge roll to interrupt and then go invis.

If you dont time it right yeah than it’s your fault. Just requires some skill to deal with it.

NeroBoron.7285:

That is not a bug.
If you deal damage in invis you get revealed. Simple as that if you use a skill like chaos storm that dealse pulsing dmg and then go invis of course you get revealed.

To interrupt all your skills on going invis is also not a good option. First the behaviour would differ from usual skill chaining. Second what if an friend makes you invis? He would interrupt you!

Ever played engineer?
Try to throw elexier s when you have static discharge .. Doing so will trigger it and you get revealed. (Current SD is bugged and doesn’t trigger at all on many skills but earlier)
Or Dodge while you are invis with the trait that creates a bomb… Will reveal you too.

Or mesmer since last patch, who reflect on manipulation… Massinvis while a pew pew shots at you .. You go invis but since its a manipulation skill it will reflect the arrow which deals damage and you get visible.

That are some problems. But also those are no bugs.
It’s an issue in design how some skills synergize or in those cases not synergize. If I remember correctly you can map a key to stop your current action and then go invis. Else yeah wait till the action is finished. Or dodge roll to interrupt and then go invis.

If you dont time it right yeah than it’s your fault. Just requires some skill to deal with it.

As I see you don’t play Thief or Mesmer and you do hate them
How do you think, If I cast Stealth what that means? that I want to be revealed accidentaly? hell no!

lets make a parallel to reality you have heated an bonfire and then you run away and hide somewhere, then a person come and get scald by it, then he turn around and know that you are hidden over there!

That’s the logic, no? How can stealth be interrupted by indirect attack? how the ticking damage that was throw earlier can reveal me if I’m not there at all?

If that code must not interrupt actions that reveal you, then it must be done like to ignore all indirect damage made while in stealth. Like traps work now with stealth, that’s correct mechanic.
Why placed trap does not reveal my stealth, because its indirect damage, how then, throw gunk and chaos storm is not the same thing? or flying projectile that launched before invis.

Mesmer and engi are my mains. And about 800~900 hours of play time on my mesmer. And I play for about 2 years mostly only PvP and wvw.

Of course sometimes this happens to me as well that I kitten it up. But that is how stealth works and what can be compensated easily by the skill of a player.
Also from a developer point: If they would change the mechanic of stealth there the potential of bugs is way higher because the stealth mechanic would be more complex.
And I already see the threads again with topics like “urgh I got killed from invis, opponent didn’t got revealed”
I’m a developer myself so I often see their side of problems as well. There is for example a software principle called KISS – keep it simple stupid, what says things things work best if they are simple https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle.

You could invis a ele which casts skills like lava fountain or meteor shower and they wouldn’t get revealed because that would be your so called indirect damage.

The Thiefs trap only deals conditions and those don’t reveal you. And that’s the point.
While the ranger traps deal a little direct damage and a huge amount of condition damage so they get revealed. If they wouldn’t get revealed they could completely kill you while they are invis.
Already head enough people who ran into the traps and died in 3 sec. If this would be indirect damage as well I could completely kill somebody from stealth. Probably even stomp him while I am in stealth!

And yes throw gunk and chaos storm deal direct damage while the thief’s trap doesn’t.

I totally agree with you that it’s a little annoying. But they just can’t do that.
The only thing that I could imagine is that they remove direct damage from some skills and make them condi only. But for me I wouldn’t like that on my chaos storm cause in a dual range shatter build it deals some nice decent damage.

So, you are saying that you have adapted to a broken mechanic and you want it to stay broken
good point, any other thiefs and mesmers?

Hmm, not only I feel like stealth is broken.

Artemis.8495:

Hmm, not only I feel like stealth is broken.

:D stealth always is thing that made you hate and love at same time.

Broken? Its not broken. It is just how it works if you deal direct damage after you go in stealth you get revealed. Really simple.
The word broken means something doesn’t work like it should. But this is how it works since release and how anet thinks that it should work.
And yes Im fine how it currently works. Sure it has some problems but I don’t have a better solution for it. You don’t want to get a broken invisible mechanic fixed you want to improve a mechanic so some peoblens dont appear anymore or a completely new mechanic. And that us a huge difference. If something is broken you can’t use it. But stealth works ias it us desugned. It is not like you don’t get invisible. Or broken as meaning for overpowered.

And it seems like you don’t have a better mechanic, that is simple and doesn’t have the problems I mentioned. If you do convince me.

We got already your point, I have a feeling that you have not read entire my messages and you are trolling me.
OK, anyway the fact that 4/10 instant stealth is revealed during PvP and 8/10 when using Steal with Hidden Thief trait, mean something, no?
That why I’ve created this post.
And solution proposed by me is really much better, it follows rational logic of how things must work.

Yes you got my point, but you have no solution for that points and still say that your solution is better than the current one of anet. And you say i am trolling, LOL!

I read your entire messages. If you are refering to the comparison to realtiy and that it would feel more natural. And I agree on that, that doesn’t always make sense in our natural world. But you can’t allow such indirect damage changes due to bigger problems like breaking game balance. (Thief + Ele team example from previous post)
Further it’ss a game, maybe each character has just the magic ability to backtrack incmoing damage, who knows.

I don’t know how you get revealed that often. Maybe it’s fact that you get revealed that often. But that is not a problem of each and every player.
For me I can say: this doesn’t happen to me that often. Maybe in 5% of the cases i accidentially kitten up my stealth. Also none of my roaming thief and mesmer friends complained that they get revealed that often. Yes of course you have to be aware of a lot of things.
I also don’t get revealed when using steal with hidden thief. I get revealed when i’m in stealth traited mug and then steal because it deals damage! And I also see that traits that make you invisible on dropping below a certian health percentage are a problematic because people have to be aware of it and can easily kitten their stealth up then so you cant stealth again.

I’m fine if there is a new stealth mechanic, but it shouldn’t suffer from other bigger problems like those I mentioned on your solution.

How can someone suffer from this changes? Yes the only classes that have no stealth surely will suffer

I’m using Hidden Thief with Mug and Sigil of Leeching, it may be inefficient build, but I like it and that’s why I’m saying its a bug, because I cant play normally my build, and if you say that go play meta builds, or dont take mug trait, or something like that…
then better I should go other games to play because I liked GW2 for its diversity and focused on non-meta PvP system, even if its hard to say that now after update.

Anyway, combination of elementalist and thief, even with this changes cannot be that bad as you saying and vice-versa you can save an elementalist that’s on low health, after cast meteorit and then you stealth him to save. Elementalist are very good on using Daggers and Scepter that does damage and heal quick.
OK lets imagine that situation for maximum efficiency, a berserker elementalist cast lava font, meteorit, ice spike and eruption then get stealthed, that mean he will stay stealth and will do no more damage and even more thief has to be close to him and watch him while those aoe can be easily dodged. I don’t see a way to exploit that.

I see a group of 5 players: 2 thiefs, 3 berserker ele thanks to smoke fields and all blast finishers + enough other group invisble spells they can go perma invisible. Also possible with (1 thief and 4 ele). And there isn’t much about you can do against that. Sure you can try to somehow interupt their stealth stacking, but thats really hard since they can stack up everywhere and you don’t know where till you maybe see a smoke field. Else your group can be killed by them without even seeing one of them.

Maybe you can survive the first round of 4 meteorshowers that deal 5000 damage per meteor, but what then? You have only 2 options trying to somehow interupt their stealth stacking. But even then they have still shadow refuge and blinding powder. Or run. (Okay there is still the stealth disrupter trap in WvW and with the Herald there will be an reveal aoe spell ) So there isn’t really a conter option.

Because of this issue: If you cast a skill from stealth that deals damage you must be revealed. Else it would completly break the game balance. (Okay its kinda broken in other aspects of balance already, but still)

I totaly agree and would like to see if someone casts an aoe damage spells like meteorshower that you can make him invisble to save him.
But a mechanic that can check whether the damage which is dealed is from a skill that you used before you went invisble or not, is way to complex and has a lot of potential bugs.
And we already had those bugs here were people didn’t get revealed correctly, and got killed without any chance. Annoying as hell. (For example a video from 30.04.2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlK0r19-1Ok)

Yes Mug/Sigil of leeching is going to make you visible when you steal from stealth.

if any of skills that make damage, initiated after stealth will surely reveal you, when I was talking about indirect damage I was referring only to those skills that damage comes with delay and with ticks and was casted before invisible. Its a sure thing that if any indirect damage will be ignoring reveal will be kind of a imba, imagine necro with wells and marks.
and beside of that PvP has very good objective course so you cant always stay 5v5, if you stay only with your team stacked kitten the other team will win very easy keeping other 2 points caped or doing secondary objectives like Lord or Svanir/Chieftain.
I have recently played ranger, and after Barrage never do Hunter Shot!

What you are describing is the difference between how the mechanic was designed and how some of us think it ought to work. The game is setup so that any damage triggers reveal, not just direct damage.

Thus, those playing stealth builds need to take care to avoid causing damage unintentionally, from on-dodge, on-swap, aoe, auto-target, or various other types of indirect damage.

If you think this imbalances game play, then offer a suggestion about how ANet might implement things so the game can distinguish intended from unintended sources of damage. (I am neutral on the topic: I think the current mechanic is unintuitive and I am not sure how the mechanic could work differently, without creating a lot okittenward side issues.)

edit: grammar

Sin.3042:

So, you are saying that you have adapted to a broken mechanic and you want it to stay broken
good point, any other thiefs and mesmers?

I usually play thief and I think stealth is working correctly

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

What you are describing is the difference between how the mechanic was designed and how some of us think it ought to work. The game is setup so that any damage triggers reveal, not just direct damage.

Thus, those playing stealth builds need to take care to avoid causing damage unintentionally, from on-dodge, on-swap, aoe, auto-target, or various other types of indirect damage.

If you think this imbalances game play, then offer a suggestion about how ANet might implement things so the game can distinguish intended from unintended sources of damage. (I am neutral on the topic: I think the current mechanic is unintuitive and I am not sure how the mechanic could work differently, without creating a lot okittenward side issues.)

edit: grammar

Can you please link where you read about Stealth mechanic or which Game Designer explained how it works?

As I thought, no solid proofs, but only speaking. If Stealth was designed to be interrupted by any s**t that dropped on the battlefield, why then to add Throw Gunk at all to Thief stealhed ability, its mechanic working against all natural minds, why not to add then an exact description and, for god sake, why I always should waste my Endurance before enter stealth? and if I have no endurance to dodge what should I do?! you can say game mechanics, blah blah blah, go learn to play noob, etc. But game was designed for all players for noobs and crabs included, and having such a experience with stealth on all classes, is dissapointing, I think just game designers don’t care.
And that’s Sad, because BDO is stepping on heels of GW2 and then will nobody cares.

Sin.3042:

As I thought, no solid proofs, but only speaking. If Stealth was designed to be interrupted by any s**t that dropped on the battlefield, why then to add Throw Gunk at all to Thief stealhed ability, its mechanic working against all natural minds, why not to add then an exact description and, for god sake, why I always should waste my Endurance before enter stealth? and if I have no endurance to dodge what should I do?! you can say game mechanics, blah blah blah, go learn to play noob, etc. But game was designed for all players for noobs and crabs included, and having such a experience with stealth on all classes, is dissapointing, I think just game designers don’t care.
And that’s Sad, because BDO is stepping on heels of GW2 and then will nobody cares.

Then leave?

If you are throwing the engi gunk steal, then don’t stealth. It’s pretty simple. You don’t have to use it anymore to gain access to steal. It’s fully intended by Anet that ANY damage reveals. It’s also intended that condition damage will not reveal, but most skills that apply conditions, also do damage and therefore the application of them would reveal (although traps were changed to not do so for some strange reason). These are facts of the game, just as using SB 2 and then going in stealth will reveal you if the cluster bomb hits someone. Teaches you to pay attention to where that bunny is when you try to blast a smoke field.

You learn how the mechanic works, and you work within it’s confines. Any change in how this works would either break stealth or make it too powerful in other ways. As suggested, if you don’t agree with how it works, propose something better, but also address all the ways in which it can be abused.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Then leave?

If you are throwing the engi gunk steal, then don’t stealth. It’s pretty simple. You don’t have to use it anymore to gain access to steal. It’s fully intended by Anet that ANY damage reveals. It’s also intended that condition damage will not reveal, but most skills that apply conditions, also do damage and therefore the application of them would reveal (although traps were changed to not do so for some strange reason). These are facts of the game, just as using SB 2 and then going in stealth will reveal you if the cluster bomb hits someone. Teaches you to pay attention to where that bunny is when you try to blast a smoke field.

You learn how the mechanic works, and you work within it’s confines. Any change in how this works would either break stealth or make it too powerful in other ways. As suggested, if you don’t agree with how it works, propose something better, but also address all the ways in which it can be abused.

I have proposed already another stealth mechanic, that which will only eliminate ridiculous revealing during fights.
And about engi gunk… you said, dont go stealth or dont use it it… but why? why should I restrict myself on such things like this, why Im not restricting me on anything on my necro, warrior or guardian and on thief and mesmer I have to watch always and waste my endurance just to go stealth.
I really dont understand why you so much dislike this, it will only make things work right, its just a small piece of code that interrupt autoattack and any other action (but not heal) and ignore the damage that were left on battlefield before stealth, same mechanic were already ingame long ago with Phantasms of Mesmer and Pet of Ranger, its the same, you still doing damage but its indirect damage, Im not saying that you can go stealth and beat the crap off your enemy while unrevealed (while mesmer and ranger can do that even now with pet and phantasm), this can not be exploit, this mechanic already is in ingame but discriminatory applied to things, like stealth is too OP to be working right on Thiefs. It barely will touch game aspects it will just increase surviving which after update was reduced to seconds between berserkers.

As for auto-attack, I turn it off on characters that will be stealthing. It already stops the attack when you stealth though, but it helps you to know if you have an attack already in route, because you had to press the button.

For gunk, you are the one throwing the gunk and therefore the damage comes from you. No I don’t think it should really continue dealing damage, but it’s not really generally good to use anyways.

For mesmer, phantasms deal the damage, it isn’t coming from the player, just as Thief’s Guild or mistwolf or hounds or warband support or ranger pet, or rock dog from rune, etc., are the ones actually dealing the damage. If the mesmer hits a shatter, then the damage comes from the mesmer, revealing them, just as if they hit shatter and immediately stealth, the clones reveal them when they actually shatter, again because the damage counts as coming from the player. As annoying as that can be, it’s fair.
Stealth takes effort to learn and play, and it takes effort to counter. Unfortunately far too many don’t want to learn how to counter. If stealth worked better, Anet would end up forced to severely nerf it. As is, people want it severely nerfed already.

why I must restrict my self on auto-attack and etc. I’m a noob, for ex., why I cant play this class as I want?

about gunk, how damage can come from me if its throwed here on ground and then use Shadow Trap at 10 000 range or using logic, that s**t lay on the ground how can it be my fault if you stepped on it, same thing with mesmer’s chaos storm and flying projectiles after instant stealth.

Yes Indirect damage its right, that why I have opened this topic, because Indirect damage is good but its not applied correctly to all things and instant stealth must interrupt auto-attack or other skills(not heal) to prevent revealing by it, because melee and beam auto-attack it is a Direct Damage there is no doubt.

Sin.3042:

why I must restrict my self on auto-attack and etc. I’m a noob, for ex., why I cant play this class as I want?

about gunk, how damage can come from me if its throwed here on ground and then use Shadow Trap at 10 000 range or using logic, that s**t lay on the ground how can it be my fault if you stepped on it, same thing with mesmer’s chaos storm and flying projectiles after instant stealth.

Yes Indirect damage its right, that why I have opened this topic, because Indirect damage is good but its not applied correctly to all things and instant stealth must interrupt auto-attack or other skills(not heal) to prevent revealing by it, because melee and beam auto-attack it is a Direct Damage there is no doubt.

Get over yourself. There is no logic in gaming. There is only RULE. And the rules states that any forms of ongoing direct dmg will reveal you. This is NOT a bug. It’s perfectly working as intended. Thief’s traps don’t reveal because they don’t have direct damage portion. Because the RULE wants it to be that way.

Move on, anet will not care and will not change.

I’m just going to say it.
This is a learn to play issue, not a bug.

So, you both now confirmed that this is a Issue and ANet does not care.
Good.
That’s sort a lot of things, were to invest some money and time, in HoT or BDO, so ty guys.

Sin.3042:

So, you both now confirmed that this is a Issue and ANet does not care.
Good.
That’s sort a lot of things, were to invest some money and time, in HoT or BDO, so ty guys.

They both now confirmed that it’s NOT an issue.

I can understand why you don’t like the mechanic (there are other mechanics that rub me the wrong way, too). What I don’t understand is why it is difficult for you to accept that it’s an intended balancing aspect of stealth and adjust your gameplay accordingly.

They do confirmed, maybe not intentionally but they do:
1) DavyMcB said that Stealth working perfectly as intended and even if anyone see an issue anet won’t care.
2) Lunacy Solacio indirect confirmation, that if there was all fine, there were nothing for “learn to play”, you may say the game entirely is “learn to play”, but now we talk only about unexpected revealing.

About understanding me, with all explanations, examples and evidences, nah… who read them anyway
I know that its balancing aspect and blah blah blah, but its working wrong!
Have you seen anywhere else to traits that can work against each other, like Invisibility have with [Mug] and [Hidden Thief], Gunk/Chaos Storm and Stealth or Auto-attack and [Last Refuge] where you fighting an enemy and this is trigger just in a middle of attack and you die cause must wait reveal to cool down.
Sure you can adapt, sure you can do spent more time ingame and improve your skills, SURE YOU CAN LEAVE THE GAME, but this does not change the fact that direct and indirect damage attributes applied to skills are messed up and stealth must stop auto-attack before its applied or ignore last hit done from stealth.

But anyway, its just my opinion, so lets just abandon this topic, because I see that you are wrong as much as you see me, that way nothing will be sorted.

It’s intended behavior, but that doesn’t mean it’s correct behavior. It’s overly simple, and could probably be improved somewhat without ridiculously complex changes.

For AoE/DoT damage fields already on the ground, existing fields could be changed to not trigger reveal. Only have this change triggered on initial stealth application to prevent further stealth stacking from covering later casts. The basic functionality for that already exists in the game. Skill attributes can be altered by might or other stat changes after they’ve been cast. And a previous thief trait (gaining initiative on stealth) prevented triggering its effect while already in stealth.

There are also plenty of traits that only trigger in combat, so would it be any more complex to have some traits not trigger while in stealth?

Dealing with auto-attacks already in-progress and in-flight projectiles would probably be the most complex to attempt to deal with. Even if those were left unchanged, the others could still be a big improvement.