Guild Wars 2

Really ArenaNet, you disappoint me….

Since paying for the game gives you both versions this is my suggestion to Mac users: forget about this, buy Windows 7 and set up a Windows 7 partition on your Mac (using Bootcamp utility) to experience this game properly and at the full potential of your machine. You also get compatibility with the gigantic Windows games library as a bonus!

I have done exactly that to play games on the Mac. GW2 is running smooth as butter on Windows, with zero freezes or glitches. The only issue is a rare crash to desktop when entering a portal, but jumping back in the game takes less than a minute .

I don’t want to buy Windows, and more importantly, I don’t want to use Windows. I’m very happy that ArenaNet provides a Mac client, even if it is still beta, and even if it is wrapper based and not native.

I’ve mostly based Blizzard titles in the past. Note that, while Blizzard does provide native clients for OSX, they still tend to have lower performance than their Windows counter parts. So it’s not clear whether a native client is actually necessary, assuming that this is a possibility at all for GW2.

I’m a lifelong Mac user and used to think like you : " I don’t want to use Windows".

Well, I eventually got bored of the lack of games on the Mac, and installed Windows XP on a partition and was very happy with it. I’m basically getting double value out of my machine. So long as you use a 3rd party firewall and avoid invasive anti-virus software it’s really ok. The Mac is actually faster on Windows for certain things, notably web flash video.

There’s a briliant Mac app called Winclone which allows you to quickly clone and restore entire Windows partitions (much faster and more reliable than windows recovery!) so that once you’ve installed Windows and applied updates you can clone and just wipe and restore if anything goes bad.

Mac uses Open GL for graphics which for some reason is inferior to DirectX for games.

ElixireL.5190:

I’m a lifelong Mac user and used to think like you : " I don’t want to use Windows".

Well, I eventually got bored of the lack of games on the Mac, and installed Windows XP on a partition and was very happy with it. I’m basically getting double value out of my machine. So long as you use a 3rd party firewall and avoid invasive anti-virus software it’s really ok. The Mac is actually faster on Windows for certain things, notably web flash video.

There’s a briliant Mac app called Winclone which allows you to quickly clone and restore entire Windows partitions (much faster and more reliable than windows recovery!) so that once you’ve installed Windows and applied updates you can clone and just wipe and restore if anything goes bad.

Mac uses Open GL for graphics which for some reason is inferior to DirectX for games.

OpenGL is not inferior to Direct X technically. Development wise, Direct X is superior because Microsoft is slightly ahead on developing Direct X standard and there a decent amount of people who are able to use Direct X well.

Ok, I’m not good with computers really, but since its a wrapper instead of native does that mean the client doesn’t run as well with mac? I’m only wondering because I have to turn almost everything to low except shaders and textures. (sampling: native), and I still only get 15-20 fps… I feel like my computer could definitely handle more.

iBlasiannn.4279:

Ok, I’m not good with computers really, but since its a wrapper instead of native does that mean the client doesn’t run as well with mac? I’m only wondering because I have to turn almost everything to low except shaders and textures. (sampling: native), and I still only get 15-20 fps… I feel like my computer could definitely handle more.

the problem with wrappers is that it increase the overhead. Wine maps Direct X calls to Open gl. The only issue is that performance slightly worse than native. Note: a larger cpu overhead and inefficient use of Opengl
Time for legitimate apple bashing
The real issue is how optimized are the drivers. Well, Apple is pretty insistent on using their own graphic stack and etc. Their wall garden and feature freeze will only hold back your graphic card potential performance. If you want better fps, then Apple computers is your last choice. In fact, Linux is a better option

fix: bootcamp and install windows

Note: macbook retina need apple approve drivers because manufacture drivers will buff the gpu clock enough to surpass manufacture cooling specifications

@iBlasiannn
That’s the bottom line. OSX is not the best gaming platform, and the wrapper takes away additional performance. But I think there is also some room in the case of GW2 to improve the wrappers performance.

@loseridoit
Yeah, drivers is a big issue too. Both ATI and Nvidia regularly release updates and work with game producers to optimize performance for many popular games. That’s something you just don’t get from Apple.
Linux is not really a better option. But if you plan on using Linux as main OS, you have much more freedom to put together a PC (or choose from a variety of laptops) that will have better gaming performance (on Windows) and are not restricted by Apples bootcamp drivers.

Lilsteele.4567:

@iBlasiannn
That’s the bottom line. OSX is not the best gaming platform, and the wrapper takes away additional performance. But I think there is also some room in the case of GW2 to improve the wrappers performance.

@loseridoit
Yeah, drivers is a big issue too. Both ATI and Nvidia regularly release updates and work with game producers to optimize performance for many popular games. That’s something you just don’t get from Apple.
Linux is not really a better option. But if you plan on using Linux as main OS, you have much more freedom to put together a PC (or choose from a variety of laptops) that will have better gaming performance (on Windows) and are not restricted by Apples bootcamp drivers.

The difference is that there is a difference in corporate policies. For example, Mark Shuttleworth is willing to listen to the woe of Game developers. Major graphic chip manufactures are giving semi decent direct support and updates to Linux. For these reason alone, Linux is the better platform for gaming.

While Apple… Gabe Newell is having problems with communicating with Apple to get things working. If Gabe Newell cannot get game running on Mac, then other developers are having problems too.

loseridoit.2756:

Note: macbook retina need apple approve drivers because manufacture drivers will buff the gpu clock enough to surpass manufacture cooling specifications

Where did you read this nonsense?

Deimos.6493:

loseridoit.2756:

Note: macbook retina need apple approve drivers because manufacture drivers will buff the gpu clock enough to surpass manufacture cooling specifications

Where did you read this nonsense?

somewhat in apple support forums.

To be frank, I would of not believed it. Macbook Pro retina is areadly bad under full load on OS X. It might be worse if the clock rates for the gpu is slightly higher.

Opps I should have clarified that this happens on boot camp

loseridoit.2756:

The difference is that there is a difference in corporate policies. For example, Mark Shuttleworth is willing to listen to the woe of Game developers. Major graphic chip manufactures are giving semi decent direct support and updates to Linux. For these reason alone, Linux is the better platform for gaming.

Yeah but unfortunately Linux is not a platform, it’s 100 different platforms. Maybe Ubuntu could become a platform for gaming (they are also close to publishing a mobile OS). But compared to that OSX is a huge market.

“I don’t want to buy Windows, and more importantly, I don’t want to use Windows. I’m very happy that ArenaNet provides a Mac client, even if it is still beta, and even if it is wrapper based and not native.”

Precisely. Well, mostly. I do have Windows 7 on my MBP, and I love Windows 7 on my PCs. But it’s a hassle to relaunch my computer to play games, because I’m typically playing games around my work time. I prefer to switch seamlessly between the two, so I’d rather take a few extra bugs and a slight hit in performance in order to play my games without having to boot out of OSX. Yep, that limits me in the games I play most, but I’m okay with that. I love Guild Wars 2. I love EVE Online. I’m okay with being limited to those (and a handful of others) and having a little buggier experience rather than switching computers or rebooting all the time.

Lilsteele.4567:

loseridoit.2756:

The difference is that there is a difference in corporate policies. For example, Mark Shuttleworth is willing to listen to the woe of Game developers. Major graphic chip manufactures are giving semi decent direct support and updates to Linux. For these reason alone, Linux is the better platform for gaming.

Yeah but unfortunately Linux is not a platform, it’s 100 different platforms. Maybe Ubuntu could become a platform for gaming (they are also close to publishing a mobile OS). But compared to that OSX is a huge market.

True. Linux market might be larger that you think. It is just impossible to estimate the size of the Linux community in general. I am quite happy that Valve is pushing Linux gaming.

prefer to switch seamlessly between the two, so I’d rather take a few extra bugs and a slight hit in performance in order to play my games without having to boot out of OSX.

every person who dual boots their machine feel the same way

loseridoit.2756:

Deimos.6493:

loseridoit.2756:

Note: macbook retina need apple approve drivers because manufacture drivers will buff the gpu clock enough to surpass manufacture cooling specifications

Where did you read this nonsense?

somewhat in apple support forums.

To be frank, I would of not believed it. Macbook Pro retina is areadly bad under full load on OS X. It might be worse if the clock rates for the gpu is slightly higher.

Opps I should have clarified that this happens on boot camp

There is no difference in clock speed between Apple and NVIDIA drivers and if you did not updated your driver to the latest NVIDIA ones, do update.

The 650M GT in retina Macbook Pro have higher clock speed than 650M GT in non retina, that’s about it.

Tralmek.2537:

I prefer to switch seamlessly between the two, so I’d rather take a few extra bugs and a slight hit in performance in order to play my games without having to boot out of OSX.

The problem is that is much more than a slight hit in performance – its a difference between playable and unplayable. Under Windows, I have a very smooth experience running 1920×1200 at high settings. In OS X, I have to turn everything down AND play at 1440×900 AND it still struggles + there is major stutter when turning the camera.

Lol my mac air gets 26-28 fps im fine no camera lag for me

ElixireL.5190:

Really ArenaNet, you disappoint me….

Since paying for the game gives you both versions this is my suggestion to Mac users: forget about this, buy Windows 7 and set up a Windows 7 partition on your Mac (using Bootcamp utility) to experience this game properly and at the full potential of your machine. You also get compatibility with the gigantic Windows games library as a bonus!

I have done exactly that to play games on the Mac. GW2 is running smooth as butter on Windows, with zero freezes or glitches. The only issue is a rare crash to desktop when entering a portal, but jumping back in the game takes less than a minute .

There isn’t a game on this planet amazing enough for me to use Windows. I play what runs in OSX and I’m happy with my decision. Windows not necessary.

Not native, nut still i prefer to play with crippled Mac client that installing Windows. i use my computer for much more things than gaming, and Windows sucks so hard i can’t believe someone can be so crazy to use it. So i will stick with this client but i hope ArenaNet improves it even if it is Cider based.

Well indeed, it is very hard for them to make a native Mac port because that would require to port the whole game from DirectX to OpenGL. I am still not sure why so many gaming companies insist on developing solely on DirectX when OpenGL would save them costs and improve portability thus increasing the market.

OpenGL would improve performance (indirectly), save money on licences, save money on middle and long term maintenance, save money on support, save money and time on future development, encourages better coding practices, opens the market to Mac and Linux with almost no modification at all… etc etc. The only disadvantage I find is that it does take a little more work to develop on OpenGL in the beginning, but it greatly compensate in the middle and long term.

Talking about it, I am very happy that Steam is finally pushing on Linux even though their game selection sucks right now, but once we see main stream games being ported, all other gaming companies would realize how silly and ignorant they were ignoring Mac and Linux users as second world citizens. It is almost a fallacy to blame Nvidia and AMD for not improving their Linux drivers. I ran WoW for about 4 years on Linux and my FPS was exactly the same. If some people have their problems with GFX drivers, that is not your concern! As a company, do you bother with Windows users driver installation? No, that’s on their own. Just do your part and we users will do ours, I assure you, we always find a way.

Also, very understated that when you support Linux, we get your back prising your company and encouraging users to try out your products. One happy Linux user means many non-linux users. And Mac users are very thankful too.

We may not have beautiful sales people on suits visiting your corporate offices and giving you free pens, but look around you, everything now runs on Linux, except things based on DirectX. Everyone is more and more interested on leaving Windows on favour of Mac and Linux. Especially after Win8 fiasco.

ElixireL.5190:

I’m a lifelong Mac user and used to think like you : " I don’t want to use Windows".

Well, I eventually got bored of the lack of games on the Mac, and installed Windows XP on a partition and was very happy with it. I’m basically getting double value out of my machine. So long as you use a 3rd party firewall and avoid invasive anti-virus software it’s really ok. The Mac is actually faster on Windows for certain things, notably web flash video.

There’s a briliant Mac app called Winclone which allows you to quickly clone and restore entire Windows partitions (much faster and more reliable than windows recovery!) so that once you’ve installed Windows and applied updates you can clone and just wipe and restore if anything goes bad.

Mac uses Open GL for graphics which for some reason is inferior to DirectX for games.

Nothing wrong with OpenGL. The problem is Mac graphics card drivers and support—the drivers are bad so the performance is bad. This, on top of a nonnative game implementation leads to a layer of bad on top of the bad that’s already there which means slightly worse performance than is usually expected with Macs.

Apple has gotten better but they still have a way to go to improve graphics drivers on the Mac platform.

Arena Net should have done with blizzard and other developers did from the start and make the graphics engine cross platform from the start—it isn’t that difficult. All you need to do it make all game calls to a function and then have the function call to either OpenGL or Direct X. It adds another layer but makes game porting easy.