Guild Wars 2

Fellow GW2ers,

Anyone else out there have a similar card and are experiencing BSOD / Hard Crashes while playing GW2? If so, anything specific to correct?

I am about to initiate a 3rd RMA with EVGA, as nothing we have done to troubleshoot this issue has resolved it.

1. Extended memory test run without any reported issues.
2. The card runs other games without issue (Ex: Alien : Isolation).
3. I have tested a GTX 970 and a GTX 660ti, both run flawlessly.
4. OCCT extended stability tests all run without issue.

Interestingly, if I underclock the card (core & memory to -105) I can game for long periods without any crash or BSOD. (I am using MSI Afterburner to adjust clock speeds as EVGA’s PrecisionX software is also known to crash GW2)

Motherboard Manufacturer :Asus
Motherboard Model : Z97-A
Graphics Card Model : EVGA GeForce GTX 980 FTW ACX 2.0
CPU : Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor
Memory Manufacturer : Corsair
Memory Model : Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 × 8GB) DDR3-1866 Mem
Number of Memory Modules : 2
Power Supply : CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W
Operating System : Windows 7 64Bit Pro
Monitor : Vizio 42" 1080p 60Hz Class LED

I have the graphics settings set to “high”, setting to a lower setting does seem to calm the crashing, but who wants to play on a lowering setting with a GTX 980 running the game?

Help me Obi kittenanobi you’re my only hope!!!

I know exactly what your going through. Have you tried setting the frame limiter/refresh rate to your monitors frame rate/refresh rate. My wife’s computer would hard reset at least once a day and when I limited her frame rate to 60 it stopped crashing. I also enabled v-sync on her PC.

I’m having the same problem with the same card (980 FTW). It runs everything else perfectly, but GW2 will crash the computer, sometimes seconds within loading into a map.

Lowering the clock seems to let it play for longer periods of time, but i’ve had crashes at even -100.

I’ve tried using older drivers, with the same results.
Is this something that can be fixed with a driver update? or maybe a future update to GW2 itself?
I hope so.

The problem with issues such as this is that while symptoms might appear similar the solutions are never the same. You can search for solutions on the web wherein 50 people all have the same issue and an offered solution works for 4 of them and a totally different solution for 4 others and another 10 people never get it fixed.

As example to overclocking. I have seen people that solved an issue by going back to stock. I have seen people solve an issue by increasing the voltage to their CPU core or DRAM.

I have seen people that used the latest drivers and got it to work while others only started to get the issues when they installed a later driver. People have sent in Video cards for warranty three times in a row and finally got it to become stable while others find they have failed power supplies.

I have seen people claim MSI after burner solves the problems as others suggest it can resolve them .

What you are best off doing is digging into your event viewer. There a whole pile of stuff and errors in there that you can ignore and digging through the ones that are not pertinent can be a chore.

Try and find any events relating to your video board. Look in the section called critical first and than into the one that has errors as the heading. Warning , information and audit success can generally be ignored.

The errors will have a date and time stamp on them and it easiest to look into that right after a crash so you can narrow down which error or failure is the one related to your own crash.

As example I was getting an application hang error for gw2 at the same time as I was getting a video driver stopped responding error.

With the BSOD you can use both the event viewer and this site to help narrow it down.

http://www.reviversoft.com/blue-screen-helper/

This latter site allows you to type in the code from the BSOD and accesses a database which will direct you in the right direction.

Thank you for the replies ladies and gents :

DoM.8396 – Refresh / Frame Limiting / V-Sync settings seem to have no effect on subsiding the crashes.

SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980 – Numerous fresh OS installs have been completed as part of the troubleshooting conducted with EVGA. Aside from the Corsair 1000W PSU, I have also tried a Corsair 750W PSU with the same result.

Part of my past troubleshooting with EVGA included monitoring PSU voltage during gameplay / CPU stress testing. Using OCCT’s PSU testing mode & monitoring during game play, we saw all tolerance within acceptable ranges : 5V – 5.08 to 5.12, 3.3V – 3.26 to 3.31, 12V – 12-12.1.

The 4790k is stock at this point as I too wanted to rule out overclocking as the possible culprit.

babazhook.6805 All crash events have been complied and reported to EVGA. Thank you for the response.

Also, memtest86+ reported no issues after several 4 to 6 hour runs.

Well it seems like you have tried pretty much everything.

It does sound like a voltage issue from the description. You could try to fiddle with the PCIe voltage and frequency if you’re feeling brave (may not be good for the card though). Tried a mobo firmware update?

Out of all the things in a computer and hardware related stuff I had issues with, the mobo is most often the cause. Not that easy to test replacing though :/

Don’t go by Memtest; it doesn’t really stress your RAM. Try removing one of the modules and/or swapping them around.

What specific BSOD errors are you getting?

From BlueScreenView, two back to back crashes this evening :

==========
Dump File : 041315-7347-01.dmp
Crash Time : 4/13/2015 9:01:20 PM
Bug Check String :
Bug Check Code : 0×00000116
Parameter 1 : fffffa80`0d085010
Parameter 2 : fffff880`05dff2dc
Parameter 3 : ffffffff`c000009a
Parameter 4 : 00000000`00000004
Caused By Driver : dxgkrnl.sys
Caused By Address : dxgkrnl.sys+5d134
File Description : DirectX Graphics Kernel
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 6.1.7601.18510 (win7sp1_gdr.140615-1511)
Processor : x64
Crash Address : ntoskrnl.exe+74ec0
Stack Address 1 :
Stack Address 2 :
Stack Address 3 :
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\Windows\Minidump\041315-7347-01.dmp
Processors Count : 8
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 7601
Dump File Size : 632,552
Dump File Time : 4/13/2015 9:02:04 PM
==========

==========
Dump File : 041315-7612-01.dmp
Crash Time : 4/13/2015 8:58:07 PM
Bug Check String :
Bug Check Code : 0×00000116
Parameter 1 : fffffa80`12f004e0
Parameter 2 : fffff880`05dbc2dc
Parameter 3 : ffffffff`c000009a
Parameter 4 : 00000000`00000004
Caused By Driver : dxgkrnl.sys
Caused By Address : dxgkrnl.sys+5d134
File Description : DirectX Graphics Kernel
Product Name : Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
Company : Microsoft Corporation
File Version : 6.1.7601.18510 (win7sp1_gdr.140615-1511)
Processor : x64
Crash Address : ntoskrnl.exe+74ec0
Stack Address 1 :
Stack Address 2 :
Stack Address 3 :
Computer Name :
Full Path : C:\Windows\Minidump\041315-7612-01.dmp
Processors Count : 8
Major Version : 15
Minor Version : 7601
Dump File Size : 700,504
Dump File Time : 4/13/2015 8:58:55 PM

Interesting I would have thought the driver at issue would be the video graphics driver. The driver you list is native to the OS.

There a windows DX diag tool from microsoft you might want to run.

This ALSO might be related to this issue here. Lots of people with this error and it seems to be related to DX.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1961790/bsod-dxgkrnl-sys-dxgmms1-sys-nvlddmkm-sys.html

You MIGHT try running GW@ in xp compatibility mode just as a test but it looks like a nasty issue. It might be heat related maybe your card will work in another slot further away from the cpu?

. Good luck.

I found this an interesting link. It would on the surface not seem to be related to your issue but that reference to DX peaked my interest.

The solution to wildstar errors for some people seem to have been resolved by forcing the game into dx9 mode. It a long shot but worth a try.

https://support.wildstar-online.com/entries/30051093-WildStar-crashing-with-DirectX-10-11

@SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980 You my friend are no system builder,you most likely are a guy that built his own pc (child’s play these days btw)
The 980 is a maxwell based gpu and is Nvidias most efficient gpu yet, and thus uses a lot less power draw than previous generations a 660 ti is rated at 150w, while the 980 only uses 30 watts more.However on load the maxwells are more efficient and especially lower than previous keplars off load.
@ Op The problem you are having is due to an unstable factory overclock on evga’s behalf,you can try downclocking to see if this alleviates your problem.
Your power supply and motherboard arre fine ignore that nub lol.
Go take a look in Evgas forums and you will see that you are not alone.If you have no coil whine just underclock your card.I have that exact card and am going to either send it back and buy an asus or step up to a Ti.
Have fate and don’t worry,it’s the card and evga really should do a recall on them.

Note to any mod: I am bumping this as it is a common issue with this card and wish to inform anyone having a similar problem

Uaon.6103:

@SpiritSpeakerOfHoelbrak.3980 You my friend are no system builder,you most likely are a guy that built his own pc (child’s play these days btw)
The 980 is a maxwell based gpu and is Nvidias most efficient gpu yet, and thus uses a lot less power draw than previous generations a 660 ti is rated at 150w, while the 980 only uses 30 watts more.However on load the maxwells are more efficient and especially lower than previous keplars off load.
@ Op The problem you are having is due to an unstable factory overclock on evga’s behalf,you can try downclocking to see if this alleviates your problem.
Your power supply and motherboard arre fine ignore that nub lol.
Go take a look in Evgas forums and you will see that you are not alone.If you have no coil whine just underclock your card.I have that exact card and am going to either send it back and buy an asus or step up to a Ti.
Have fate and don’t worry,it’s the card and evga really should do a recall on them.

Note to any mod: I am bumping this as it is a common issue with this card and wish to inform anyone having a similar problem

I hate how you criticize people who have tried to help the OP and then make bold statements about what the issue is. Typical troll. I’ve been mates with the guy you claimed wasn’t a system builder. He’s a member of our guild and a friend who lives locally.He worked for many years for Umart, a local pc retailer where I first met him in their warranty returns department. Think before you make such criticisms and ASSumptions.

Any fix for this, I have the same cards SLI’d and my rig crashes ONLY when playing gw2 also.

If your 980 has a second bios try switching to that. I remember having some issues playing Watchdogs on my 970 FTw+ some months back.Then i started using the second bios which has a higher clockrate etc,and the crashes all seemed to stop,perf increase cus of the higher clock aswell obviously.

Patriclus.7608:

Any fix for this, I have the same cards SLI’d and my rig crashes ONLY when playing gw2 also.

I have yet to find a resolution to this issue other then under-clocking the card (core & memory to -105).

So sad : http://forums.evga.com/So-GTX-980-FTW-are-very-bad-cards-m2346232.aspx

18 pages worth of customers reporting the same experience.

Looks like there are two options for EVGA GTX 980 FTW :

1. RMA until you get that one card that works

2. See if your card / $580 purchase is eligible for the step up and eat the difference.

I just opened another ticket with EVGA, I included a link to this post and the one mentioned above.

2:30 second mark. That is the experience to a T!

From the previously provided post :

EVGATech_DaveB
Hello all,
Alright we do have a fix now. Unfortunately this is not a BIOS fix. We will need to RMA your card(s) to get this resolved. Currently we have a limited number of tested cards, and getting more tested is our primary focus at the moment, and we will be assisting as fast as we can as the cards are passing testing. Please contact customer service for support on this.
Again we sincerely apologize for the issue and the problems it has caused and we will get all of you up and running again as fast as possible.

RESOLVED!!! Just received my 5th (and hopefully last) RMA.

EVGA has a fix, but it will require a RMA. If you have this exact card and have a similar experience, open a ticket, reference the link below / EVGA Tech Dave B :

http://forums.evga.com/So-GTX-980-FTW-are-very-bad-cards-m2346232.aspx

Just throwing this out there.. I’m having a similar problem with the 970. Below I posted the last crash BUT it seems to be different every time. After a string of BSODs I opted to do the following.

Remove all my OC’s, try different ram, re-install windows and the game… The game is no longer giving me BSOD but it’s crashing every very often and it’s annoying. Below is the log from the last error, which is also the most common one.. one of many.

—> Crash <—*
Exception: c0000005
Memory at address 49e4f742 could not be read
App: Gw2.exe
Pid: 7368
Cmdline:
BaseAddr: 00390000
ProgramId: 101
Build: 52476
When: 2015-09-01T04:16:02Z 2015-08-31T21:16:02-07:00
Uptime: 0 days 0:02:06
Flags: 0

• System <—*
  Name: DESKTOP-LGUF0SL
  IpAddr: 192.168.1.11
  Processors: 4 [GenuineIntel:6:10:9]
  OSVersion: Windows 6.2 (64 bit)

• System Memory <—*
  Physical: 4685MB/ 8136MB 57%
  Paged: 5678MB/10056MB 56%
  Virtual: 1799MB/ 4095MB 43%
  Load: 42%
  CommitTotal: 4378MB
  CommitLimit: 10056MB
  CommitPeak: 5078MB
  SystemCache: 4585MB
  HandleCount: 32751
  ProcessCount: 61
  ThreadCount: 1120

• Process Memory <—*
  Private: 1983MB
  WorkingSet: 1886MB
  PeakWorkingSet: 1914MB
  PageFaults: 2852570

[DbgHelp.dll is C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\dbghelp.dll]
[DbgHelp.dll version 10.0.10240.16384 (64/32-bit compatible)]

• Thread 0×1ccc <—*

• Trace <—*
  Pc:0082df58 Fr:0459f51c Rt:0082e161 Arg:0000ffff 00000010 00000030 00000003
  Pc:0082e161 Fr:0459f59c Rt:0082ec53 Arg:00000010 0459f624 00040404 007c5ebd
  Pc:0082ec53 Fr:0459f734 Rt:0082f7a5 Arg:0459f81c 00000000 00000010 00000100
  Pc:0082f7a5 Fr:0459f764 Rt:00832dbd Arg:00000000 00000003 00000000 00867720
  Pc:00832dbd Fr:0459f880 Rt:00866c78 Arg:00867720 00867720 00867743 77723744
  Pc:00866c78 Fr:0459f8a4 Rt:7785a064 Arg:00000000 5283c442 00000000 00000000
  Pc:7785a064 Fr:0459f8ec Rt:7785a02f Arg:ffffffff 7787d7eb 00000000 00000000
  Pc:7785a02f Fr:0459f8fc Rt:00000000 Arg:00867720 00000000 00000000 00000000

• Thread registers <—*
  eax=000000c5 ebx=0459f624 ecx=00007fff edx=00000003 esi=0459f638 edi=fffffff8
  eip=0082df58 esp=0459f500 ebp=0459f51c
  cs=0023 ss=002b ds=002b es=002b fs=0053 gs=002b efl=00010286

ebx-32 0459F604 00000010 b0585655 0459f81c 000062ec
ebx-16 0459F614 00040404 007c5ebd 0000ffff 007f37bf
ebx 0 0459F624 004f293b 007d5fd6 0080bb33 0037ed0c
ebx16 0459F634 007c5ebd 0080d2aa 001c1c1c 007fff9c
ebx+32 0459F644 007fff9c 00040404 007fff84 007fff84
ebx+48 0459F654 0065c029 007f447c 00810cae 004f293b
esi-32 0459F618 007c5ebd 0000ffff 007f37bf 004f293b
esi-16 0459F628 007d5fd6 0080bb33 0037ed0c 007c5ebd
esi 0 0459F638 0080d2aa 001c1c1c 007fff9c 007fff9c
esi16 0459F648 00040404 007fff84 007fff84 0065c029
esi+32 0459F658 007f447c 00810cae 004f293b 007d5fd6
esi+48 0459F668 0080bb33 0038816c 008062c5 00807472

• Code <—*
  0082DF38 1ff20f58 04c580bb 1e018b06 f20f58e0 …X……….X.
  0082DF48 660f6ec0 f30fe6c0 c1e81ff2 0f5804c5 f.n……….X..
  0082DF58 80bb1e01 8b4510f2 0f58d003 55140375 …..E…X..U..u
  0082DF68 f4d1e93b d072b78b 7df08b75 108b450c …;.r..}..u..E.
  0082DF78 660f28da 8b551c66 0f28fc33 c9660f6e f.(..U.f.(.3.f.n
  0082DF88 e8f30fe6 edc1e81f f20f1132 f20f582c ………..2..X,

• Stack <—*
  0459F500 00000001 00000002 dc000000 0459f62c …………,.Y.
  0459F510 0000000c fffffff8 0459f624 0459f59c ……..$.Y…Y.
  0459F520 0082e161 0000ffff 00000010 00000030 a………..0…
  0459F530 00000003 0459f570 0459f578 00823ca0 ….p.Y.×.Y..<..
  0459F540 00888887 0459f750 00040404 007cbacb ….P.Y…….|.
  0459F550 00801ad6 0077b1c2 00819907 00829f66 ……w…..f…
  0459F560 e9d5293f 41603320 80000000 415dec70 ?).. 3`A….p.]A
  0459F570 3cb042c3 415f23e2 531b73f3 3fa58be3 .B.<.#A.s.S…?
  0459F580 00000000 41101010 00000001 00000002 …….A……..
  0459F590 0459f750 0004d662 0000ffff 0459f734 P.Y.b…….4.Y.
  0459F5A0 0082ec53 00000010 0459f624 00040404 S…….$.Y…..
  0459F5B0 007c5ebd 007f37bf 0077b1c2 00888887 .^|..7….w…..
  0459F5C0 00823ca0 00000000 0459f85c 0459f81c .<……\.Y…Y.
  0459F5D0 00000005 0000000b 0000002e 0459f76c …………l.Y.
  0459F5E0 00823ca0 00000010 0459f6ec 007f446d .<……..Y.mD..
  0459F5F0 00010000 00888887 0077b1c2 0459f6e4 ……….w…Y.
  0459F600 0459f750 00000010 b0585655 0459f81c P.Y…..UVX…Y.
  0459F610 000062ec 00040404 007c5ebd 0000ffff .b…….^|…..
  0459F620 007f37bf 004f293b 007d5fd6 0080bb33 .7..;)O..}.3…
  0459F630 0037ed0c 007c5ebd 0080d2aa 001c1c1c ..7..^|………
  0459F640 007fff9c 007fff9c 00040404 007fff84 …………….
  0459F650 007fff84 0065c029 007f447c 00810cae ….).e.|D……
  0459F660 004f293b 007d5fd6 0080bb33 0038816cO..}.3…l.8.
  0459F670 008062c5 00807472 00216a55 008062ae .b..rt..Uj!..b..
  0459F680 0080745b 0039b71d 007d0764 00823ca0 [t….9.d.}..<..
  0459F690 0058467b 00834876 0080ae68 003c039c {FX.vH..h…..<.
  0459F6A0 007cdf42 0080c6e7 003b1527 007d5fc2 B.|…..’.;..}.
  0459F6B0 0080bb1f 0077b1c2 00888887 007f37bf ……w……7..
  0459F6C0 00398075 007d24d8 0081bc1f 00416461 u.9..$}…..adA.
  0459F6D0 007dc2d5 00812fdf 0056b11a 007f446d ..}../….V.mD..
  0459F6E0 00810c9f 005f1495 0082522b 0082bc39 ……_.R..9…
  0459F6F0 0002df34 007e7350 007e2c9c 00401adb 4…Ps~..,~…. 0459F700 008128e6 00815ded 0021d8ee 0459f790 .(...]....!...Y. 0459F710 0459f85c 0459f81c 0459f85c 00000000 \.Y...Y.\.Y..... 0459F720 ffffff92 0459f81c 00000050 00dab3f5 ......Y.P....... 0459F730 eb36d3cc 0459f764 0082f7a5 0459f81c ..6.d.Y.......Y. 0459F740 00000000 00000010 00000100 00000100 ................ 0459F750 0459f80c 000000ae 0459f85c 0459f790 ..Y.....\.Y...Y. 0459F760 0459f85c 0459f880 00832dbd 00000000 \.Y...Y..-...... 0459F770 00000003 00000000 00867720 040ee744 ........ w..D... 0459F780 00000000 00000010 00001000 00000400 ................ 0459F790 00000002 0459f87c 00000040 00000000 ....|.Y.…….
  0459F7A0 00000800 00000000 3b4755c0 3b452b70 ………UG;pE;
  0459F7B0 00000025 00000003 00000004 00000003 %……………
  0459F7C0 00000000 040ee744 3b475920 00000004 ….D… YG;….
  0459F7D0 3b4529c0 00000100 00000100 80313029 .)E;……..)01.
  0459F7E0 80313029 89313029 89313029 9c474642 )01.)01.)01.BFG.
  0459F7F0 9c474642 93474642 9c474642 89313029 BFG.BFG.BFG.)01.
  0459F800 ae5d5b5a ae474642 9c474642 a5474642 Z[].BFG.BFG.BFG.
  0459F810 93313029 b8737173 c15d5b5a 98504f4a )01.sqs.Z[].JOP.
  0459F820 8e393831 7d1c1c1c 73040404 b0676564 189….}…sdeg.
  0459F830 96504f4a 8c393839 86222122 8d3d3934 JOP.989.“!”.49=.
  0459F840 a459575e 8e3d3c36 903c3b36 c3767687 ^WY.6<=.6;<..vv.
  0459F850 9c3c3934 9b43413d b0585655 b3f573c3 49<.=AC.UVX..s..
  0459F860 760da6da 082062ec a22bb5d5 3b475920 …v.b …+. YG;
  0459F870 3b475930 3b476120 3b476130 eb36dc78 0YG; aG;0aG;x.6.
  0459F880 0459f8a4 00866c78 00867720 00867720 ..Y.xl.. w.. w..
  0459F890 00867743 77723744 00000000 77723720 Cw..D7rw…. 7rw
  0459F8A0 6ee5318b 0459f8ec 7785a064 00000000 .1.n..Y.d..w….
  0459F8B0 5283c442 00000000 00000000 00000000 B..R…………
  0459F8C0 c0000005 75728cd0 00000000 0459ef14 ……ru……Y.
  0459F8D0 5283c442 0459f8b0 0459ef14 0459f8f4 B..R..Y…Y…Y.
  0459F8E0 77870d40 2155206e 00000000 0459f8fc @..wn U!……Y.
  0459F8F0 7785a02f ffffffff 7787d7eb 00000000 /..w…….w….

• Error Logs <—*
  Model ‘0×082244’: Failed to resolve AimIK bone indices.
  Texture missing mip chain: 0×0f8c78
  Debug token ‘0×266fa’: Lightning ran out of space for new bolts.
  Texture missing mip chain: 0×0b7430
  Texture missing mip chain: 0×0f8de6
  Texture missing mip chain: 0×0bd638

• DirectX Device Info <—*
  VendorId = 0×10de
  DeviceId = 0×13c2
  Version = 10.18.0013.5582
  Description = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
  Compat = 0×00100000
  VidMem = 4095 MB

Jourgound Meister.8561

I am just here to tell you that this thread is blowing up among gaming communities. There isnt much longevity for maxwell architecture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/3j1916/get_your_popcorn_ready_nv_gpus_do_not_support/

loseridoit.2756:

Jourgound Meister.8561

I am just here to tell you that this thread is blowing up among gaming communities. There isnt much longevity for maxwell architecture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/3j1916/get_your_popcorn_ready_nv_gpus_do_not_support/

I tend not to believe anything that comes out of reddit. I did my own research and reddit has once again confirmed that it is full of misinformed over reacting trolls. The issue they are all up in arms about is based on a back n forth between NVIDIA n a game developer. Long story short some benchmarking site thought it was a good idea to run benchmarks on the first DX12 game available IN ALPHA stage.. in said benchmark NVIDIA didn’t perform as expected. 1 unfinished game.. benchmark.. n reddit is up in arms.

Also this has nothing to do with the problem here.

infinityandbeyond.9652:

loseridoit.2756:

Jourgound Meister.8561

I am just here to tell you that this thread is blowing up among gaming communities. There isnt much longevity for maxwell architecture.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/3j1916/get_your_popcorn_ready_nv_gpus_do_not_support/

You do love trying to stir the pot with this irrelevant drivel (gw2=dx9). Quite amusing coming from someone that preaches on about anecdotal evidence and rants regarding scaling with sli etc. Anyway, back to the OP……

nobody buys a nvidia 980 for gw2. This game is not that demanding. I am only here to warn him. If he knows, I really do not mind. If he feels cheated, I am only hoping that he is within the return window.

Btw, there are plenty of windows 10 machines in which their sli/cross setups are crashing or not performing as expected.

I said I will change my opinion when dx12/vulkan come out. I am thinking about a setup for VR.

A dev came out and said that Maxwell support Async shaders via context switches. I find that fact pretty bad to the point nvidia should comment. So far, Nvidia is not refuting anything.

I rather tell warm them the kitten they may go through rather than say I told you so.